Author Topic: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better  (Read 14486 times)

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Re: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2015, 05:35:05 PM »

Offline Who

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How good of a defender is Justice Winslow? I know Duke have been playing a lot of zone defense. How has he looked when playing one on one defense?

Does he have capacity to be an elite defender? Or just an above average defender?

This is from draftexpress, so take it as you will (but they seem to be trusted).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INnQex5ZfQQ

The DEFENSE scouting report part starts at 3:05, but it's a good watch to see the entire thing and get a look at what he can do.

He's an athelte, and can be molded into a great defensive player. Granted, they do play zone, but that scouting report shows he's fundamentally solid and is quick on his feet.

I'd drool if we draft him, I would drool and will not clean it up, and I will make it my Justice Winslow shrine.

Yes, they seem very high on Winslow.

If their video report is accurate, why such a large disparity in how Stanley Johnson and Justice Winslow are rated? If you go by that report you would think Winslow and S.Johnson should be closely rated.

Was Winslow's defense over-rated in preseason, high school and underage Team USA games?
Has not met expectations as a defender or in some other way?

Re: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2015, 11:54:01 AM »

Offline mahcus smaht

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As the season winds down and the top of the draft slowly develops it has become my opinion that the 8th spot will be the cut off the Cs need to avoid.

The top 4 is all but set. What ever order they go in Okafor, Towns, Mudiay and Russell will be the top 4 picks in the draft. Its debatable who goes where, despite hype for a competition at the #1 spot I doubt Okafor goes anything put 1st. After that the next three are basically tier two and will shake out based on different teams needs/scouting.

I see the next four as Prozingis, Herzonja, Johnson and WCS. The Cs really need to land one of these four. I view then next tier/group of prospects after these four as flawed and a clear step down. These four are very different prospects but I think each will bring a skill set that will fit the Cs both stylistically and the current roster.


How they fit,

Prozingis, granted he is a PF but he brings height and length to the front court. His ability to play the perimeter seems like a great fit for what DA and BS are trying to do. If drafted I think he will mark the end for either Sully or KO. It might take a season for Prozingis to adjust but I could ultimately see one of our current PFs and Zeller joining Prozingis in a 3 big rotation.

Herzonja, he has a redundant skill set to J Young but is a better prospect. He has already show alot playing in the ACB. I can see him as a #2 scoring option on this team capable of using his size and range to score from the perimeter at the SF position. His presence my ultimently hurt Young and lead to him being moved. Especially with the SG position likely taken for a while from AB and minutes for SMart.

Johnson
, really like his fit as the starting SF. He should bring to this team a similar skill set to Crowder (not the outside shooter yet). He is much bigger then Crowder and will bring similar physical play and the ability to play small ball PF. He is actually the same size as Bass so it really isnt small ball with him at the PF. His size will still allow Young to play the 3. Johnson could effectively start at the SF and play as the 4th big allowing Young solid minutes at the SF.

WCS, after a year to adjust I could see WCS changing the Cs defense. His mobility, length and athleticism will make him a DPOY candidate. Putting him on the court with Smart and AB will create a great core of defensive success. His presence may mean the end of Zeller but I wouldn't be completely shocked to see them function in a Noah/Gibson type relationship where Tyler becomes the first big off the bench.

I am not as concerned as you are. 1st, the draft is very fluid. There could be injuries, players could stay in school and someone could emerge or fade in the conference and national tourneys. Even if the order stays fluid Danny has the assets to move up into the 7-8 range. Last year Chicago got Mcdermott at 11 for 16 and 19 I believe Danny has the ammo to get up to 8 I think if he uses Clips and a sixers 2 or a future late first.

Lastly I think this draft has a lot of good prospects. My big board reads as follows:

Okafor
Towns
Johnson
Mudiay
Russell
Prozingis
WCS
Hezonja
Oubre
Turner
Booker
Winslow
Looney

I personally am low on Turner and Looney, but could see all of these guys becoming stars.

Also we are still in a position where everyone is an asset. if we select a gaurd its OK because Smart, Thomas, Bradley and Young and whatever gaurd we pick all have very tadeable contracts and are certainly desirables in any trade.


Re: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2015, 12:00:33 PM »

Offline mahcus smaht

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How good of a defender is Justice Winslow? I know Duke have been playing a lot of zone defense. How has he looked when playing one on one defense?

Does he have capacity to be an elite defender? Or just an above average defender?

This is from draftexpress, so take it as you will (but they seem to be trusted).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INnQex5ZfQQ

The DEFENSE scouting report part starts at 3:05, but it's a good watch to see the entire thing and get a look at what he can do.

He's an athelte, and can be molded into a great defensive player. Granted, they do play zone, but that scouting report shows he's fundamentally solid and is quick on his feet.

I'd drool if we draft him, I would drool and will not clean it up, and I will make it my Justice Winslow shrine.

Yes, they seem very high on Winslow.

If their video report is accurate, why such a large disparity in how Stanley Johnson and Justice Winslow are rated? If you go by that report you would think Winslow and S.Johnson should be closely rated.

Was Winslow's defense over-rated in preseason, high school and underage Team USA games?
Has not met expectations as a defender or in some other way?
I am also a little confused why Winslow has fallen. If you look back at early season mocks Winslow is pretty consistently top 6 and Johnson tends to go 1-4 picks after Winslow. I think he could be the steal of the draft. He is a great athlete and he is shooting 39% from 3. On top of that he is playing through a broken rib and coach K has praised him as the best wing prospect hes had since Grant hill and he coached Jabari last year. He also has praised him as the ultimate team player and someone easy to play with.

Combine this with a ton of athleticism and a sweet 3 point stroke.

Sign me up

Re: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2015, 12:30:11 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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No college big is going to look good against Kentucky. They have four potential 1st round bigs in WCS, Towns, Lyles, D.Johnson. I believe their front court average height is bigger than any NBA team.

That was last year vs Johnson and Randle. Cauley-Stein was out and Towns was in HS.

Re: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2015, 12:37:10 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I agree that there is a cut off but it ends at about 12 for me.

I would add Oubre, Winslow, Turner, and Booker to the list of guys who could be a fit on this  team.
Oubre, Booker and Turner can all stretch the floor and fit in with what we are currently doing. Winslow's shot looks broken but I think his athleticism and defense will allow him to play while he develops his offensive game (much like Smart).

The thing is, even if we pick outside of top 12 the Celtics have the assets to move up and get the guy they want further down the board (I don't think we can get into the top 5 but after that any pick could be in play for a trade)
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Re: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2015, 12:54:53 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I agree that there is a cut off but it ends at about 12 for me.

I would add Oubre, Winslow, Turner, and Booker to the list of guys who could be a fit on this  team.
Oubre, Booker and Turner can all stretch the floor and fit in with what we are currently doing. Winslow's shot looks broken but I think his athleticism and defense will allow him to play while he develops his offensive game (much like Smart).

The thing is, even if we pick outside of top 12 the Celtics have the assets to move up and get the guy they want further down the board (I don't think we can get into the top 5 but after that any pick could be in play for a trade)

A couple points.

First, what makes you say Winslow's shot looks broken. He is shooting 39% from 3

Second, I agree that after the top 12 there is a falloff and inside the top 12 its too fluid to make judgements. This is good because Danny certainly has the ammo to move from 15 to 10-12

Lastly, jus tmy take but I think there are 3 elite wings: Johnson, Oubre, Winslow and 4 elite centers Okafor Towns Prozingis WCS

Hezonja also sounds good but I have seen him play exactly 0 times

If Hezonja is as good a wing as hes made out to be I would be ecstatic with any of those 8 guys

Edit: When I ask why you think Winslow shot is broken Im honestly curious if Im missing something. Right now I am going under the impression he could turn into an above average outside shooter
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Re: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2015, 01:36:22 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I agree that there is a cut off but it ends at about 12 for me.

I would add Oubre, Winslow, Turner, and Booker to the list of guys who could be a fit on this  team.
Oubre, Booker and Turner can all stretch the floor and fit in with what we are currently doing. Winslow's shot looks broken but I think his athleticism and defense will allow him to play while he develops his offensive game (much like Smart).

The thing is, even if we pick outside of top 12 the Celtics have the assets to move up and get the guy they want further down the board (I don't think we can get into the top 5 but after that any pick could be in play for a trade)

A couple points.

First, what makes you say Winslow's shot looks broken. He is shooting 39% from 3

Second, I agree that after the top 12 there is a falloff and inside the top 12 its too fluid to make judgements. This is good because Danny certainly has the ammo to move from 15 to 10-12

Lastly, jus tmy take but I think there are 3 elite wings: Johnson, Oubre, Winslow and 4 elite centers Okafor Towns Prozingis WCS

Hezonja also sounds good but I have seen him play exactly 0 times

If Hezonja is as good a wing as hes made out to be I would be ecstatic with any of those 8 guys

Edit: When I ask why you think Winslow shot is broken Im honestly curious if Im missing something. Right now I am going under the impression he could turn into an above average outside shooter
His shot looks pretty stiff and not very fluid. He is only shooting wide open shots and has been awful from the midrange (I'm pretty sure his numbers aren't good but I can't find the percentages anywhere).

I could be wrong on him and I hope I am since the more good players that are in the draft the better chance that we get one.
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Re: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2015, 01:52:44 PM »

Offline loco_91

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As the season winds down and the top of the draft slowly develops it has become my opinion that the 8th spot will be the cut off the Cs need to avoid.

The top 4 is all but set. What ever order they go in Okafor, Towns, Mudiay and Russell will be the top 4 picks in the draft. Its debatable who goes where, despite hype for a competition at the #1 spot I doubt Okafor goes anything put 1st. After that the next three are basically tier two and will shake out based on different teams needs/scouting.

I see the next four as Prozingis, Herzonja, Johnson and WCS. The Cs really need to land one of these four. I view then next tier/group of prospects after these four as flawed and a clear step down. These four are very different prospects but I think each will bring a skill set that will fit the Cs both stylistically and the current roster.


How they fit,

Prozingis, granted he is a PF but he brings height and length to the front court. His ability to play the perimeter seems like a great fit for what DA and BS are trying to do. If drafted I think he will mark the end for either Sully or KO. It might take a season for Prozingis to adjust but I could ultimately see one of our current PFs and Zeller joining Prozingis in a 3 big rotation.

Herzonja, he has a redundant skill set to J Young but is a better prospect. He has already show alot playing in the ACB. I can see him as a #2 scoring option on this team capable of using his size and range to score from the perimeter at the SF position. His presence my ultimently hurt Young and lead to him being moved. Especially with the SG position likely taken for a while from AB and minutes for SMart.

Johnson
, really like his fit as the starting SF. He should bring to this team a similar skill set to Crowder (not the outside shooter yet). He is much bigger then Crowder and will bring similar physical play and the ability to play small ball PF. He is actually the same size as Bass so it really isnt small ball with him at the PF. His size will still allow Young to play the 3. Johnson could effectively start at the SF and play as the 4th big allowing Young solid minutes at the SF.

WCS, after a year to adjust I could see WCS changing the Cs defense. His mobility, length and athleticism will make him a DPOY candidate. Putting him on the court with Smart and AB will create a great core of defensive success. His presence may mean the end of Zeller but I wouldn't be completely shocked to see them function in a Noah/Gibson type relationship where Tyler becomes the first big off the bench.

I might add Kelly Oubre to that list. He has really, really good tools and sexy stats, too

Re: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2015, 02:43:08 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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Honestly, I'm just ecstatic that this draft is deep with very good prospects at the wing and center positions, which happen to be our greatest positions of need. I rate them as:
Towns, Okafor, WCS, then Porzingis
Johnson, then Oubre or Hezonja

I'm a big defensive guy, so I'm biased towards WCS and Johnson and Towns' potential.  We'd truly have a great draft if we got WCS or Johnson in our range, but I'd also be happy with the lesser options I listed, too. Don't know much about Oubre, but a lot of people think he will end up as a great scorer in the NBA.

Re: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2015, 04:21:21 PM »

Offline footey

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I think where this draft actually has a major drop in talent is after 13.

Tier 1
Okafor
Mudiay
Towns

Tier 2
Johnson
Russell
Porzingis (based on on the buzz surrounding him)

Tier 3 (huge tier with wings and bigs and separated accordingly)

Wings-
Hezonja
Oubre
Booker
Winslow

Bigs-
Cauley-Stein
Turner
Looney


Kaminsky is outside my top 13 based on his lack of upside and the fact that his skill-set is redundant to our current crop of players. I'd take Poeltl instead of him because the higher ceiling.

How do you have Hezonja in the third tier? How do you know he is not Tier 1 good? 

Have you seen Kaminskys stats this season?

Just bc someone is a jr or sr does not mean a freshman is automatically much better bc they haven't reached their potential yet.

Yeah if anything, Hezonja is tier 2 and Porzingis is tier 3

LOL

Re: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2015, 04:23:32 PM »

Offline footey

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All things being equal, I'd take a kid who has been playing professional ball in Europe since the age of 15-16 over these AAU drama queens in the States.  AAU has absolutely ruined basketball fundamentals stateside.  Read the lament of GMs regarding this fact.

Re: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2015, 04:30:31 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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All things being equal, I'd take a kid who has been playing professional ball in Europe since the age of 15-16 over these AAU drama queens in the States.  AAU has absolutely ruined basketball fundamentals stateside.  Read the lament of GMs regarding this fact.

Provide said lament?
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Re: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2015, 04:45:39 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Yeah if anything, Hezonja is tier 2 and Porzingis is tier 3

LOL

Yeah I think I've changed my mind on that since last week, but everyone I typically agree with has Hezonja first and everyone I typically disagree with (Chad Ford, NBA Draft .net) has Porzingis first.  That last part really gives me pause

Re: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2015, 04:55:34 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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so, based upon the ideas in this thread, there seems to be 9 players whom most people consider to be pretty good in this draft. they are (in no strict order):

- okafur
- mudiay
- johnson
- towns
- russell
- cauley-stein
- pozingas
- herzonja
- oubre

if the celtics get one of these guys, we would be fairly happy? if so, then i believe that will happen. given the celtics probable position and ability to trade up, i am sure one of the last 4 guys will be a celtic this summer.....unless ainge trades the pick for a nba player.  ;D

so this year's draft is looking like it will fun, right?

oh....and should we have the OP change the thread title to "9th pick"?  ;D
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Re: Cs need to be at the 8th pick or better
« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2015, 04:57:04 PM »

Offline jonaslopes

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All things being equal, I'd take a kid who has been playing professional ball in Europe since the age of 15-16 over these AAU drama queens in the States.  AAU has absolutely ruined basketball fundamentals stateside.  Read the lament of GMs regarding this fact.

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