Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball

[Jonny CC]

good find.
hope all the best for him. Looks like a genuine guy, unlike how the media portrays him. There will always be a place in the league for a talent like him if he ever decides to return.

Let's recap, he signed a big fat contract last season, then figured out that he really "didn't want to be in the NBA" and wants to do "what's best for his family". As a result, he's going to collect $11 million this season and roughly $2 million per year for the next 7(!) years. Seems real "genuine" to me.

koz, honestly, you are talking out your ass here aren't you? you don't know him or his justifications or reasoning. you do have a personal take and that is what i see here. you post better stuff than this.

I don't really care about his rationalization ... or justification, if you wish. He chose to sign an NBA contract and is refusing to honor it without being physically unable to perform. You tell me one good reason why he should be entitled to any part of his salary.

That's where you are wrong.  Due to his depression, he is physically unable to perform.  If he needs to leave his JOB to fix his LIFE, then so be it.

I know a lot of people who dealt with depression who have real jobs that they didn't quit to be an artist, writer, musician, and painter.  Quitting one's job isn't the main focus  of the treatment of depression.

Corrected...
There are different levels of depression.  Just because you know someone who can function with it doesn't mean that everyone can.  I'll bet that there are a lot of people with "real jobs", (and artists, writers, musicians, and painters) that weren't able to carry on with their work due to depression...in fact, there have been countless cases of bad endings for people that overmedicate/overdose/etc, due to an inability to deal with it. 

[D.o.s.]

I don't have a problem with the drugs.  I don't have a problem with him deciding that there are more important things in life than basketball.  But everything he's saying is kind of hollow when he hasn't had to make any sacrifices to pursue what makes him happy.

It's really easy to say that this is the best decision for his family when he gets a buyout for doing nothing at all.  How are these NBA contracts written that he's entitled to even one cent?  In any other job if you decide you don't feel like working anymore, your contract is torn up.  I wonder if he would be singing the same tune if that was the case here.

Go google 'guaranteed contracts.'

Are you going to explain the point you're trying to make or do you just want me to Google "guaranteed contracts" for no particular reason?

The term "guaranteed contact" is purely agent-speak.  It has no legal definition whatsoever.  It doesn't even have a consistent definition across the NBA.  What is called a "guaranteed contract" by the media can have any number of clauses in it which makes it anything but guaranteed.  I'm asking how they managed to write a contract which seemingly entitles one party to compensation without any tangible value going in the other direction.  This is not a valid contract under U.S. law.

All of this is to say that what must have actually happened was that Larry Sanders told them, "I don't feel like playing basketball anymore", to which they responded, "Fine, we'll just keep our money then" (which is 100% within their rights as an employer).  So Sanders came back and said, "Okay, I changed my mind.  I'll be happy to half-ass my way through a few seasons for a paycheck."  Then they negotiated a buyout.  What I'm trying to understand is why everyone seems to be so quick to profess their respect for a guy that basically just extorted millions from the Bucks?

Maybe if you googled that phrase, you'd be able to find the answer to your questions and complaints, namely:

How are these NBA contracts written that he's entitled to even one cent?

I'm asking how they managed to write a contract which seemingly entitles one party to compensation without any tangible value going in the other direction.

That's information that you can easily find out on your own, instead of griping about someone you don't know involved in something you clearly don't understand. 

Here, I'll get you started:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

Come on, there's no need for that.  Especially when the article confirms that my understanding was pretty accurate.  The only thing I didn't account for was the inability to render services due to mental health issues.  That explains why the Bucks were left on the hook for the balance of his contract.  It also makes me even more skeptical that he actually has a mental health disorder, but I'll admit that that is complete conjecture.

Fair enough -- apologies. The smile was to lighten it a little bit since things tend to read more seriously than the sound in person.

Ah, sorry.  I thought it was a sarcastic smile.

you had it right the first time.

It's certainly sarcastic, but it's not meant to be mean/insulting. Hence the clarification.

In the future, though, please feel free to tell other posters what my intentions are.

so you were being sarcastic and saying the poster doesn't know what he's talking about and that isn't insulting how?

If you've never used sarcasm in a friendly way then I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm also not sure why you're getting so aggreived on his behalf.

[moiso]

good find.
hope all the best for him. Looks like a genuine guy, unlike how the media portrays him. There will always be a place in the league for a talent like him if he ever decides to return.

Let's recap, he signed a big fat contract last season, then figured out that he really "didn't want to be in the NBA" and wants to do "what's best for his family". As a result, he's going to collect $11 million this season and roughly $2 million per year for the next 7(!) years. Seems real "genuine" to me.

koz, honestly, you are talking out your ass here aren't you? you don't know him or his justifications or reasoning. you do have a personal take and that is what i see here. you post better stuff than this.

I don't really care about his rationalization ... or justification, if you wish. He chose to sign an NBA contract and is refusing to honor it without being physically unable to perform. You tell me one good reason why he should be entitled to any part of his salary.

That's where you are wrong.  Due to his depression, he is physically unable to perform.  If he needs to leave his JOB to fix his LIFE, then so be it.

I know a lot of people who dealt with depression who have real jobs that they didn't quit to be an artist, writer, musician, and painter.  Quitting one's job isn't the main focus  of the treatment of depression.

Corrected...
There are different levels of depression.  Just because you know someone who can function with it doesn't mean that everyone can.  I'll be that there are a lot of people with "real jobs, and artists, writers, musicians, and painters that weren't able to carry on with their work due to depression...in fact, there have been countless cases of bad endings from people that overmedicate/overdose/etc, due to an inability to deal with it.

I've seen bad endings, I just haven't seen anyone forced to permanently retire due to depression at age 24.  The depression could be an excuse for him to stop working and just play all the time.  But that's his choice to make. 

[TheTruthFot18]

I wish I could walk away from someone paying me millions to do something better than 99.99% of people. Guess McDonald's is hiring part time.

[LarBrd33]

I made it 2 minutes into the video and stopped. 

Sounded ridiculous to me.  "Don't define me as a basketball player... I'm an artist... I'm a lover... blah blah blah"... come on.  That's the kind of nonsense someone has the luxury of saying when they have millions of dollars already in the bank for playing a game.  Good for him, he made ungodly amounts of money to play a playground game professionally.  Now he can quit the game and enjoy his drugs and riches.   

NOt a bad deal.  Getting paid 22 million to not play basketball.   I mean on some level i get it.  If you could take advantage of the opportunity to get a buttload of money and then pursue something you really loved, why not do it?  If he wants to go buy himself an island and spend the rest of his life lounging around and getting fat with beautiful models, he can. At some point, if you don't love basketball, why keep playing?  I'll never come close to making the type of money Larry Sanders has already made during his career.  Put yourself in that mindset.  "Here's the deal... you can spend the next 4 years doing something you hate and make 44 million... or you can just do whatever you want and we'll give you 22 mil".  22 mil/44 mil... whatevs... I could probably find a way to live the rest of my life pretty comfortably with just 1 mil.  I'd buy an affordable home... put the rest in a savings and live cheap off the interest.    WHat's the difference between 22 mil and 44 mil, really?   

Good for him.  But spare me the "don't try to define me" hogwash.  He sounds like a spoiled trust fund hippie girl when he says that.  You usually hear people say that when they aren't struggling to make a buck like the rest of us.  WIthout basketball, what's Larry Sanders doing with his life right now?

I know this entire thread is about depression/anxiety.   I know it's extremely cynical of me, but I'm just going to say that I'm very skeptical.  I think Larry Sanders doesn't love basketball.  I think Larry Sanders has a crapload of money now and would rather spend his time smoking weed, hanging out and living off his fortune.  His video makes it sound like he "refuses to be defined" by basketball and wants to spend time doing other things.   I think Larry Sanders got paid, got a fat contract, and decided he didn't want to keep putting in the work.  Again, it's cynical, but I think the "depression"/"anxiety" thing was just cooked up by his agent as a way to sneak out of the 4 year 44 million dollar contract with 22 million for doing nothing.   I don't buy the "poor Larry" narrative. 

But I don't know... I'm probably wrong.  Either way, the Bucks are paying him 22 million dollars to do nothing.  Nice scam.

[moiso]

I made it 2 minutes into the video and stopped. 

Sounded ridiculous to me.  "Don't define me as a basketball player... I'm an artist... I'm a lover... blah blah blah"... come on.  That's the kind of nonsense someone has the luxury of saying when they have millions of dollars already in the bank for playing a game.  Good for him, he made ungodly amounts of money to play a playground game professionally.  Now he can quit the game and enjoy his drugs and riches.   

NOt a bad deal.  Getting paid 22 million to not play basketball.   I mean on some level i get it.  If you could take advantage of the opportunity to get a buttload of money and then pursue something you really loved, why not do it?  If he wants to go buy himself an island and spend the rest of his life lounging around and getting fat with beautiful models, he can. At some point, if you don't love basketball, why keep playing?  I'll never come close to making the type of money Larry Sanders has already made during his career.  Put yourself in that mindset.  "Here's the deal... you can spend the next 4 years doing something you hate and make 44 million... or you can just do whatever you want and we'll give you 22 mil".  22 mil/44 mil... whatevs... I could probably find a way to live the rest of my life pretty comfortably with just 1 mil.  I'd buy an affordable home... put the rest in a savings and live cheap off the interest.    WHat's the difference between 22 mil and 44 mil, really?   

Good for him.  But spare me the "don't try to define me" hogwash.  He sounds like a spoiled trust fund hippie girl when he says that.  You usually hear people say that when they aren't struggling to make a buck like the rest of us.  WIthout basketball, what's Larry Sanders doing with his life right now?

I know this entire thread is about depression/anxiety.   I know it's extremely cynical of me, but I'm just going to say that I'm very skeptical.  I think Larry Sanders doesn't love basketball.  I think Larry Sanders has a crapload of money now and would rather spend his time smoking weed, hanging out and living off his fortune.  His video makes it sound like he "refuses to be defined" by basketball and wants to spend time doing other things.   I think Larry Sanders got paid, got a fat contract, and decided he didn't want to keep putting in the work.  Again, it's cynical, but I think the "depression"/"anxiety" thing was just cooked up by his agent as a way to sneak out of the 4 year 44 million dollar contract with 22 million for doing nothing.   I don't buy the "poor Larry" narrative. 

But I don't know... I'm probably wrong.  Either way, the Bucks are paying him 22 million dollars to do nothing.  Nice scam.

I agree with you.  Depression is a real thing and can be serious.  Some people believe everything Sanders says.  Why, I don't know.  I'm skeptical of everything a celebrity says.  They always spin things to make themselves look favorable.  I don't automatically believe anything Sanders says, just like I automatically don't believe anything Lance Armstrong says.

[D.o.s.]

That's not a behavior unique to celebrities, or NBA players, or people who are right handed, left handed, ambidextrous or amputees.

So the two of you walk around inherently suspicious of your fellow human beings? How very quaint, but it sounds exhausting.

[saltlover]

That's where you are wrong.  Due to his depression, he is physically unable to perform.  If he needs to leave his JOB to fix his LIFE, then so be it.

See above comments for Schilling's sock and Rondo's elbow. Throw KG's right knee and both of Amare's knees while you're at it. Just because you have a medical condition doesn't mean you're physically unable to perform.

Having a medical condition does not mean you are medically able to perform either.  Try hyperventiallting from a panic attack due to anxiety and then imagine running around a basketball court while being unable to breathe.

Look, Sanders shouldn't have self-medicated by using marijuana.  And per the terms of his contract, he cost himself about $1.5 million in fines due to suspensions.  But depression is a real thing, whether or not you'd like to admit it, and an arbitrator ruled years ago that the CBA does not enable a team to void a contract because of it.  Knowing that, the Bucks and Sanders agreed to end the contract.  The Bucks win, because they are now out only 50% of what they otherwise would have been, and get to keep that money from counting against the salary cap.  If they'd suspended Sanders until he played, they would have to still give Sanders money to charities agreed (they can't just keep the money), and his salary would count against the cap.  Sanders wins because he can move on with his life.  It's an imperfect world.

Also, I'm not trying to speak for anyone else here, but I imagine one reason some posters here call Sanders courageous is because either they or someone close to them has had to deal with severe depression or anxiety, and know first-hand the amount of strength it can take to expose yourself to the public ridicule that mental health disorders seem to attract.  As your and other posts have served to demonstrate.

[TheFlex]

Hoping so badly that someone makes a vehement anti-pot post exactly at 4:20 PM.

[timobusa]

That's where you are wrong.  Due to his depression, he is physically unable to perform.  If he needs to leave his JOB to fix his LIFE, then so be it.

See above comments for Schilling's sock and Rondo's elbow. Throw KG's right knee and both of Amare's knees while you're at it. Just because you have a medical condition doesn't mean you're physically unable to perform.

Depression is a real thing.

I'm glad you didn't have to go through it, and you can live life free of knowing how it feels, or what it does to a person.

But on the other hand I'm also sadden that you can't take this illness seriously.
A little empathy would be nice, Larry Sanders is not a hero, he's just a person like us, and like the millions of people suffering from depression, and I'm glad he is doing something about it.

He lucked out that he is 7 foot tall and athletic and someone paid him for being that.
But to undermine what he is going through, that is just pathetic.

[KeepRondo]

I don't have a problem with the drugs.  I don't have a problem with him deciding that there are more important things in life than basketball.  But everything he's saying is kind of hollow when he hasn't had to make any sacrifices to pursue what makes him happy.

It's really easy to say that this is the best decision for his family when he gets a buyout for doing nothing at all.  How are these NBA contracts written that he's entitled to even one cent?  In any other job if you decide you don't feel like working anymore, your contract is torn up.  I wonder if he would be singing the same tune if that was the case here.

Go google 'guaranteed contracts.'

Are you going to explain the point you're trying to make or do you just want me to Google "guaranteed contracts" for no particular reason?

The term "guaranteed contact" is purely agent-speak.  It has no legal definition whatsoever.  It doesn't even have a consistent definition across the NBA.  What is called a "guaranteed contract" by the media can have any number of clauses in it which makes it anything but guaranteed.  I'm asking how they managed to write a contract which seemingly entitles one party to compensation without any tangible value going in the other direction.  This is not a valid contract under U.S. law.

All of this is to say that what must have actually happened was that Larry Sanders told them, "I don't feel like playing basketball anymore", to which they responded, "Fine, we'll just keep our money then" (which is 100% within their rights as an employer).  So Sanders came back and said, "Okay, I changed my mind.  I'll be happy to half-ass my way through a few seasons for a paycheck."  Then they negotiated a buyout.  What I'm trying to understand is why everyone seems to be so quick to profess their respect for a guy that basically just extorted millions from the Bucks?

Maybe if you googled that phrase, you'd be able to find the answer to your questions and complaints, namely:

How are these NBA contracts written that he's entitled to even one cent?

I'm asking how they managed to write a contract which seemingly entitles one party to compensation without any tangible value going in the other direction.

That's information that you can easily find out on your own, instead of griping about someone you don't know involved in something you clearly don't understand. 

Here, I'll get you started:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

Come on, there's no need for that.  Especially when the article confirms that my understanding was pretty accurate.  The only thing I didn't account for was the inability to render services due to mental health issues.  That explains why the Bucks were left on the hook for the balance of his contract.  It also makes me even more skeptical that he actually has a mental health disorder, but I'll admit that that is complete conjecture.

Fair enough -- apologies. The smile was to lighten it a little bit since things tend to read more seriously than the sound in person.

Ah, sorry.  I thought it was a sarcastic smile.

you had it right the first time.

It's certainly sarcastic, but it's not meant to be mean/insulting. Hence the clarification.

In the future, though, please feel free to tell other posters what my intentions are.

so you were being sarcastic and saying the poster doesn't know what he's talking about and that isn't insulting how?

If you've never used sarcasm in a friendly way then I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm also not sure why you're getting so aggreived on his behalf.

I see. You're just a friendly guy using sarcasm to make friends.

[timobusa]

That's not a behavior unique to celebrities, or NBA players, or people who are right handed, left handed, ambidextrous or amputees.

So the two of you walk around inherently suspicious of your fellow human beings? How very quaint, but it sounds exhausting.

Agreed

[D.o.s.]

I don't have a problem with the drugs.  I don't have a problem with him deciding that there are more important things in life than basketball.  But everything he's saying is kind of hollow when he hasn't had to make any sacrifices to pursue what makes him happy.

It's really easy to say that this is the best decision for his family when he gets a buyout for doing nothing at all.  How are these NBA contracts written that he's entitled to even one cent?  In any other job if you decide you don't feel like working anymore, your contract is torn up.  I wonder if he would be singing the same tune if that was the case here.

Go google 'guaranteed contracts.'

Are you going to explain the point you're trying to make or do you just want me to Google "guaranteed contracts" for no particular reason?

The term "guaranteed contact" is purely agent-speak.  It has no legal definition whatsoever.  It doesn't even have a consistent definition across the NBA.  What is called a "guaranteed contract" by the media can have any number of clauses in it which makes it anything but guaranteed.  I'm asking how they managed to write a contract which seemingly entitles one party to compensation without any tangible value going in the other direction.  This is not a valid contract under U.S. law.

All of this is to say that what must have actually happened was that Larry Sanders told them, "I don't feel like playing basketball anymore", to which they responded, "Fine, we'll just keep our money then" (which is 100% within their rights as an employer).  So Sanders came back and said, "Okay, I changed my mind.  I'll be happy to half-ass my way through a few seasons for a paycheck."  Then they negotiated a buyout.  What I'm trying to understand is why everyone seems to be so quick to profess their respect for a guy that basically just extorted millions from the Bucks?

Maybe if you googled that phrase, you'd be able to find the answer to your questions and complaints, namely:

How are these NBA contracts written that he's entitled to even one cent?

I'm asking how they managed to write a contract which seemingly entitles one party to compensation without any tangible value going in the other direction.

That's information that you can easily find out on your own, instead of griping about someone you don't know involved in something you clearly don't understand. 

Here, I'll get you started:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

Come on, there's no need for that.  Especially when the article confirms that my understanding was pretty accurate.  The only thing I didn't account for was the inability to render services due to mental health issues.  That explains why the Bucks were left on the hook for the balance of his contract.  It also makes me even more skeptical that he actually has a mental health disorder, but I'll admit that that is complete conjecture.

Fair enough -- apologies. The smile was to lighten it a little bit since things tend to read more seriously than the sound in person.

Ah, sorry.  I thought it was a sarcastic smile.

you had it right the first time.

It's certainly sarcastic, but it's not meant to be mean/insulting. Hence the clarification.

In the future, though, please feel free to tell other posters what my intentions are.

so you were being sarcastic and saying the poster doesn't know what he's talking about and that isn't insulting how?

If you've never used sarcasm in a friendly way then I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm also not sure why you're getting so aggreived on his behalf.

I see. You're just a friendly guy using sarcasm to make friends.

And you're nothing but a winner, through and through. What does this have to do with Larry Sanders?

[KeepRondo]

I don't have a problem with the drugs.  I don't have a problem with him deciding that there are more important things in life than basketball.  But everything he's saying is kind of hollow when he hasn't had to make any sacrifices to pursue what makes him happy.

It's really easy to say that this is the best decision for his family when he gets a buyout for doing nothing at all.  How are these NBA contracts written that he's entitled to even one cent?  In any other job if you decide you don't feel like working anymore, your contract is torn up.  I wonder if he would be singing the same tune if that was the case here.

Go google 'guaranteed contracts.'

Are you going to explain the point you're trying to make or do you just want me to Google "guaranteed contracts" for no particular reason?

The term "guaranteed contact" is purely agent-speak.  It has no legal definition whatsoever.  It doesn't even have a consistent definition across the NBA.  What is called a "guaranteed contract" by the media can have any number of clauses in it which makes it anything but guaranteed.  I'm asking how they managed to write a contract which seemingly entitles one party to compensation without any tangible value going in the other direction.  This is not a valid contract under U.S. law.

All of this is to say that what must have actually happened was that Larry Sanders told them, "I don't feel like playing basketball anymore", to which they responded, "Fine, we'll just keep our money then" (which is 100% within their rights as an employer).  So Sanders came back and said, "Okay, I changed my mind.  I'll be happy to half-ass my way through a few seasons for a paycheck."  Then they negotiated a buyout.  What I'm trying to understand is why everyone seems to be so quick to profess their respect for a guy that basically just extorted millions from the Bucks?

Maybe if you googled that phrase, you'd be able to find the answer to your questions and complaints, namely:

How are these NBA contracts written that he's entitled to even one cent?

I'm asking how they managed to write a contract which seemingly entitles one party to compensation without any tangible value going in the other direction.

That's information that you can easily find out on your own, instead of griping about someone you don't know involved in something you clearly don't understand. 

Here, I'll get you started:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

Come on, there's no need for that.  Especially when the article confirms that my understanding was pretty accurate.  The only thing I didn't account for was the inability to render services due to mental health issues.  That explains why the Bucks were left on the hook for the balance of his contract.  It also makes me even more skeptical that he actually has a mental health disorder, but I'll admit that that is complete conjecture.

Fair enough -- apologies. The smile was to lighten it a little bit since things tend to read more seriously than the sound in person.

Ah, sorry.  I thought it was a sarcastic smile.

you had it right the first time.

It's certainly sarcastic, but it's not meant to be mean/insulting. Hence the clarification.

In the future, though, please feel free to tell other posters what my intentions are.

so you were being sarcastic and saying the poster doesn't know what he's talking about and that isn't insulting how?

If you've never used sarcasm in a friendly way then I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm also not sure why you're getting so aggreived on his behalf.

I see. You're just a friendly guy using sarcasm to make friends.

And you're nothing but a winner, through and through. What does this have to do with Larry Sanders?

Nothing so send me a private message if you have anything else to say.

[kozlodoev]

That's where you are wrong.  Due to his depression, he is physically unable to perform.  If he needs to leave his JOB to fix his LIFE, then so be it.

See above comments for Schilling's sock and Rondo's elbow. Throw KG's right knee and both of Amare's knees while you're at it. Just because you have a medical condition doesn't mean you're physically unable to perform.

Depression is a real thing.

I'm glad you didn't have to go through it, and you can live life free of knowing how it feels, or what it does to a person.

But on the other hand I'm also sadden that you can't take this illness seriously.
A little empathy would be nice, Larry Sanders is not a hero, he's just a person like us, and like the millions of people suffering from depression, and I'm glad he is doing something about it.

He lucked out that he is 7 foot tall and athletic and someone paid him for being that.
But to undermine what he is going through, that is just pathetic.

I'm not undermining what he's going through. I'm undermining the fact that he's getting applauded for walking on his team while collecting millions in the process. It may be standard operating procedure in the NBA, but I don't consider it worthy of appreciation. And whoever thinks that playing through a mental disorder is harder than playing with your tendon help together with clips... I don't know what to tell you.