Author Topic: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other  (Read 59541 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other
« Reply #75 on: February 25, 2015, 10:25:37 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • NCE
  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15402
  • Tommy Points: 2785
lol.

Man. I knew rondo would get exposed in Dallas, but this is above and beyond what I anticipated. He's been a disaster there.

I still think rondo has game, though. He just needs to sign with a team this offseason that is willing to give him complete control of the ball so he can rack up assists again.  His per36 numbers in Boston this season were surprisingly the best of his career.  12.2 assists, 8.5 rebounds and 1.9 steals.  He can still be a very good statistical player in this league. He just needs a system to adhere to his strengths and weaknesses.  Predictably that's not happening in Dallas.  Hilarious stuff.

My guess:  someone (not Dallas) overpays rondo this offseason with the intention of giving him the keys to run the offense how he sees fit.  It will fail to produce a winner, but rondo will be back to dropping 10+ assists.

I think the question is: will that team win many games? Considering he's likely to get that deal from either the Knicks or Lakers, and their star players are over the hill / like the ball in THEIR hands, I think it's doubtful.

In other words, if Rondo is your 'star', you're a blow average team in the NBA.

Tell that to the 2009-10 Boston Celtics, especially after we dispatched CLE from the playoffs.........

I don't think the team that met the LA Lakers in the finals that year was "BELOW AVERAGE"........

Typical homer post. Leaving aside the fact that Rondo wasn't the star of that team, unless you have a time machine to sell Rondo's next team, what happened 5 seasons in the past isn't going to do a whole lot for ya.

Well, for Rondo to have not been the star of that team we sure wouldn't gotten past CLE without him, lol.

It's well know around these parts that Rajon performed admirably that post-season - perhaps as well as our other stars.

And yeah - I'm an Unashamed Rajon Rondo Homer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9D95FNo24s

Those days are gone. He's not the player he once was, and more critically his attitude has rendered him damaged goods to NBA teams who are smart enough to understand the team trumps the individual.

So I stand by the above. If Rondo's gonna get his money, he'll likely have to go to a bad team, and is unlikely to improve that team very much, if at all. But he'll still likely do just that, because that chip is more firmly on his shoulder than it's ever been. He wants to call the shots. He wants to dictate when he plays hard, and when he doesn't. He cares more about his ego than winning.

Look at what happened in the game this thread refers to. Rondo gets yanked <> Mavs come back and win the game. This is a microcosm of his Dallas experience thus far. The league's 4th leading passer is hurting his team's offense. He's not winning them games. His place in the 4th quarter rotation is questionable at best, like it was with the Cs.

As for what's well known around these parts, I joined the blog in 2006. I just don't confuse history with reality.

That win last night vs TOR could be attributed to Amare's play as well - not "just" Rondo being benched.

The Anti-Rondo crowd of course will blame Rajon for EVERYTHING from BOS losing in game 7 of 2010, to BOS losing in 2010-14, to Global Warming, to the Dinosaurs extinction, to Elvis passing, to Mars being lifeless...

....just blame it on Rondo...it's his fault LOL, SMH.

And I've been a Celtics Fan since 1981, and cheered for them when it was unfashionable to do so with my skin hue :)

And will STILL remain a Celtics fan forever.

So my (and your) fandom has nothing to do with this. You are Anti-Rondo and I am Pro-Rondo.

Re: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other
« Reply #76 on: February 25, 2015, 10:28:16 AM »

Offline mainevent

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1309
  • Tommy Points: 203
http://youtu.be/NEbBSEqcmFI

....Stuff happens....

A week after being traded there? Lol...yeah Ok.

A week? He's played more games for Dallas this season than he did for Boston (yet some of you can't seem to move on). My point is, tempers flare between players and coaches during games. This isn't the first time and it won't be the last. This WILL be blown out proportion by some here though. Some of you just can't help it.

Two totally different scenarios.

DWade = All Star/ Rondo = hasn't been close to one in years
Dwade's team before ES was even thought of/ Rondo new and trying to fit in to a system
Dwade = NOT known as a malcontent, gets along with teammates, not known for challenging his coaches etc/ Rondo quite the opposite.   

I could go on. Sure stuff happens however this is Rondo's MO. Period.  I have been a Rondo fan since he first came into the league but it is what it is. When you have 3 superstars surrounding you and pushing your game to greater levels then all of a sudden they're gone and it's just you, the real you is either going to shine or p--- the bed. My issue with him AND with Jeff Green for that matter is that they showed a lack of effort since Paul and Kevin were traded. Superstars show up when they have no one to be accountable to. Those two disappeared more often than not. Now Jeff wants to play like a superstar? I am a CELTICS fan first and a fan of particular players second.  If you're hurting my team, I don't care WHO you are you need to get ghost! So, miss me with the "stuff happens" crap. He's being exposed and he doesn't like it!
"Mosquitoes refuse to bite me....purely out of respect"

Re: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other
« Reply #77 on: February 25, 2015, 10:34:56 AM »

Offline ssspence

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6375
  • Tommy Points: 403
lol.

Man. I knew rondo would get exposed in Dallas, but this is above and beyond what I anticipated. He's been a disaster there.

I still think rondo has game, though. He just needs to sign with a team this offseason that is willing to give him complete control of the ball so he can rack up assists again.  His per36 numbers in Boston this season were surprisingly the best of his career.  12.2 assists, 8.5 rebounds and 1.9 steals.  He can still be a very good statistical player in this league. He just needs a system to adhere to his strengths and weaknesses.  Predictably that's not happening in Dallas.  Hilarious stuff.

My guess:  someone (not Dallas) overpays rondo this offseason with the intention of giving him the keys to run the offense how he sees fit.  It will fail to produce a winner, but rondo will be back to dropping 10+ assists.

I think the question is: will that team win many games? Considering he's likely to get that deal from either the Knicks or Lakers, and their star players are over the hill / like the ball in THEIR hands, I think it's doubtful.

In other words, if Rondo is your 'star', you're a blow average team in the NBA.

Tell that to the 2009-10 Boston Celtics, especially after we dispatched CLE from the playoffs.........

I don't think the team that met the LA Lakers in the finals that year was "BELOW AVERAGE"........

Typical homer post. Leaving aside the fact that Rondo wasn't the star of that team, unless you have a time machine to sell Rondo's next team, what happened 5 seasons in the past isn't going to do a whole lot for ya.

Well, for Rondo to have not been the star of that team we sure wouldn't gotten past CLE without him, lol.

It's well know around these parts that Rajon performed admirably that post-season - perhaps as well as our other stars.

And yeah - I'm an Unashamed Rajon Rondo Homer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9D95FNo24s

Those days are gone. He's not the player he once was, and more critically his attitude has rendered him damaged goods to NBA teams who are smart enough to understand the team trumps the individual.

So I stand by the above. If Rondo's gonna get his money, he'll likely have to go to a bad team, and is unlikely to improve that team very much, if at all. But he'll still likely do just that, because that chip is more firmly on his shoulder than it's ever been. He wants to call the shots. He wants to dictate when he plays hard, and when he doesn't. He cares more about his ego than winning.

Look at what happened in the game this thread refers to. Rondo gets yanked <> Mavs come back and win the game. This is a microcosm of his Dallas experience thus far. The league's 4th leading passer is hurting his team's offense. He's not winning them games. His place in the 4th quarter rotation is questionable at best, like it was with the Cs.

As for what's well known around these parts, I joined the blog in 2006. I just don't confuse history with reality.

That win last night vs TOR could be attributed to Amare's play as well - not "just" Rondo being benched.

The Anti-Rondo crowd of course will blame Rajon for EVERYTHING from BOS losing in game 7 of 2010, to BOS losing in 2010-14, to Global Warming, to the Dinosaurs extinction, to Elvis passing, to Mars being lifeless...

....just blame it on Rondo...it's his fault LOL, SMH.

And I've been a Celtics Fan since 1981, and cheered for them when it was unfashionable to do so with my skin hue :)

And will STILL remain a Celtics fan forever.

So my (and your) fandom has nothing to do with this. You are Anti-Rondo and I am Pro-Rondo.

All this stuff is just a crutch -- it's just making excuses for him. I'm not anti-Rondo -- I'm just  willing to look at Rondo objectively for who he really is.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other
« Reply #78 on: February 25, 2015, 10:40:53 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • NCE
  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15402
  • Tommy Points: 2785
lol.

Man. I knew rondo would get exposed in Dallas, but this is above and beyond what I anticipated. He's been a disaster there.

I still think rondo has game, though. He just needs to sign with a team this offseason that is willing to give him complete control of the ball so he can rack up assists again.  His per36 numbers in Boston this season were surprisingly the best of his career.  12.2 assists, 8.5 rebounds and 1.9 steals.  He can still be a very good statistical player in this league. He just needs a system to adhere to his strengths and weaknesses.  Predictably that's not happening in Dallas.  Hilarious stuff.

My guess:  someone (not Dallas) overpays rondo this offseason with the intention of giving him the keys to run the offense how he sees fit.  It will fail to produce a winner, but rondo will be back to dropping 10+ assists.

I think the question is: will that team win many games? Considering he's likely to get that deal from either the Knicks or Lakers, and their star players are over the hill / like the ball in THEIR hands, I think it's doubtful.

In other words, if Rondo is your 'star', you're a blow average team in the NBA.

Tell that to the 2009-10 Boston Celtics, especially after we dispatched CLE from the playoffs.........

I don't think the team that met the LA Lakers in the finals that year was "BELOW AVERAGE"........

Typical homer post. Leaving aside the fact that Rondo wasn't the star of that team, unless you have a time machine to sell Rondo's next team, what happened 5 seasons in the past isn't going to do a whole lot for ya.

Well, for Rondo to have not been the star of that team we sure wouldn't gotten past CLE without him, lol.

It's well know around these parts that Rajon performed admirably that post-season - perhaps as well as our other stars.

And yeah - I'm an Unashamed Rajon Rondo Homer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9D95FNo24s

Those days are gone. He's not the player he once was, and more critically his attitude has rendered him damaged goods to NBA teams who are smart enough to understand the team trumps the individual.

So I stand by the above. If Rondo's gonna get his money, he'll likely have to go to a bad team, and is unlikely to improve that team very much, if at all. But he'll still likely do just that, because that chip is more firmly on his shoulder than it's ever been. He wants to call the shots. He wants to dictate when he plays hard, and when he doesn't. He cares more about his ego than winning.

Look at what happened in the game this thread refers to. Rondo gets yanked <> Mavs come back and win the game. This is a microcosm of his Dallas experience thus far. The league's 4th leading passer is hurting his team's offense. He's not winning them games. His place in the 4th quarter rotation is questionable at best, like it was with the Cs.

As for what's well known around these parts, I joined the blog in 2006. I just don't confuse history with reality.

That win last night vs TOR could be attributed to Amare's play as well - not "just" Rondo being benched.

The Anti-Rondo crowd of course will blame Rajon for EVERYTHING from BOS losing in game 7 of 2010, to BOS losing in 2010-14, to Global Warming, to the Dinosaurs extinction, to Elvis passing, to Mars being lifeless...

....just blame it on Rondo...it's his fault LOL, SMH.

And I've been a Celtics Fan since 1981, and cheered for them when it was unfashionable to do so with my skin hue :)

And will STILL remain a Celtics fan forever.

So my (and your) fandom has nothing to do with this. You are Anti-Rondo and I am Pro-Rondo.

All this stuff is just a crutch -- it's just making excuses for him. I'm not anti-Rondo -- I'm just  willing to look at Rondo objectively for who I THINK he really is.

Fixed it for you.

Make sure you give DAL (and Rondo) credit in a few months once they or MEM or GSW is still standing out west.....OR, you'll give the credit to someone else.

To some here, it will be EVERYONE's credit BUT Rondo's for DAL's future success.

Re: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other
« Reply #79 on: February 25, 2015, 10:53:48 AM »

Online Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31085
  • Tommy Points: 1619
  • What a Pub Should Be
Funny how Rondo still gets under so many peoples' nerves around here even though he's not on the team any more. 

Always trying to get the last word on things or the "I told you so". 


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other
« Reply #80 on: February 25, 2015, 10:56:18 AM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30859
  • Tommy Points: 1327
Funny how Rondo still gets under so many peoples' nerves around here even though he's not on the team any more. 

Always trying to get the last word on things or the "I told you so".
Yup.

I'm still confused to why this is a huge thing. Carlisile always fights with his point guards, he's a control freak who calls every play (even plays in transition) on every trip up and down the court.

I've heard radio personalities call him a "genius" offensive coach which makes me laugh when I remember his Pacers/Pistons. Dirk makes you look good I guess.

Re: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other
« Reply #81 on: February 25, 2015, 11:12:48 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • NCE
  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15402
  • Tommy Points: 2785
Funny how Rondo still gets under so many peoples' nerves around here even though he's not on the team any more. 

Always trying to get the last word on things or the "I told you so".

The frustrating thing is that when I saw this break on NBATV I shook my head and in my mind I saw the Rondo Haters on here salivating as if they were about to enjoy a steak dinner. ;D

Here comes the 50 page threads about why Rondo is this....why Rondo can't shoot....why Global Warming is indirectly Rondo's fault.....

Re: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other
« Reply #82 on: February 25, 2015, 11:34:50 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17846
  • Tommy Points: 2666
  • bammokja
Funny how Rondo still gets under so many peoples' nerves around here even though he's not on the team any more. 

Always trying to get the last word on things or the "I told you so".

The frustrating thing is that when I saw this break on NBATV I shook my head and in my mind I saw the Rondo Haters on here salivating as if they were about to enjoy a steak dinner. ;D

Here comes the 50 page threads about why Rondo is this....why Rondo can't shoot....why Global Warming is indirectly Rondo's fault.....
and i wonder what the response will be to by the rondo supporters? will they be as predictable?

does cb have to relive the rondo-in-maimi-playoff-game story once more? do we have to have cherry-picked statistics by each side flung around and serve absolutely no purpose other than to bolster pre-existing positions?

let's let it die. and let's move on please.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other
« Reply #83 on: February 25, 2015, 11:35:55 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6932
  • Tommy Points: 814
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
Why do people devote so much energy in hating Rondo..
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other
« Reply #84 on: February 25, 2015, 11:39:01 AM »

Offline makaveli

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3140
  • Tommy Points: 320
  • The Truth
rondo is frustrated, danny screwed him over. The masterplan was padding his stats in a non playoff team in the east(read Celtics), and go for a max type of a deal(Knicks or another silly team), but now he is showing his true game in a packed team and conference and is facing a hell of a reality check.
Move of the year, getting rid of him
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Re: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other
« Reply #85 on: February 25, 2015, 11:40:19 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
I've heard radio personalities call him a "genius" offensive coach which makes me laugh when I remember his Pacers/Pistons. Dirk makes you look good I guess.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other
« Reply #86 on: February 25, 2015, 11:49:58 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
ANyone who paid attention to our offense after Stevens arrived with and without Rondo would have seen this coming.   Rondo can't be fit into a system.  You have to fit a system to Rondo. 

Let's rehash what people like me have been saying for years.  He's a complete liability without the ball.  He NEEDS the ball to be effective at all.  An offense must be run through him if you hope for him to have any impact.  Since the ball NEEDS to be in his hands (out of necessity) and he can't shoot work lick, he's going to get inflated assists.   He also needs bigs who can hit mid-range shots so that the paint is open for him to pentrate/kick.

You can't just stick him into a free-flowing ball-sharing offense and expect him to be a factor.  Zach Lowe wrote an article right after the trade that basically said the Mavs offense would struggle to incorporate him.

You can't at all be surprised by this.  The Mavs had the highest scoring/most efficient offense in the league prior to Rondo's arrival.  You can't expect them to throw that out the window and say, "New plan... Rondo will dominate the ball the entire game... everyone else run around and get open"

Especially considering Monta Ellis is a ball-dominating guard already on that roster.

Man... the smug I-Told-You-So vindication is just oooooozing out of me right now.  THis is glorious.

That said, it's not like Rondo is dead.  He proved to be a solid player for us last season.  His per-36 numbers this season were the best in his career:  9 points, 12.3 assists, 8.5 rebounds, 1.9 steals.   SUrprised those are the best of his career?  Well people typically remember his amazing stats during playoff runs... playoff runs when he averaged upwards of 43 minutes per game.  This season he averaged 30 minutes for us.   THink about it. 

Dallas thing is probably a failed experiment.  Some stupid team will panic this offseason and throw a bunch of money at Rondo hoping to make a splash.  It'll probably be the Lakers or Knicks.  When that happens, they will probably give him the keys to the offense and we'll see some typical Rondo numbers return.  Can you win with him as the best player though?  Nah. 

Really interesting thing is that Rondo was asking for 100 mil from Boston.  Ainge sending him to Dallas and watching him get exposed must be a heck of a humbling experience for Rondo.  Even a dumb team like the Lakers/Knicks would be a bit crazy to give him a max contract.   This is going to cost Rondo a lot of money.  Maybe Boston can reach out to him this offseason and say, "yo... 8 miil a year to join our guard rotation off the bench... take it or leave it"

Better yet, let's sign him on the cheap-cheap for the laughs, give him a solid two months of Rondo-centric offense, get them inflated stats back up, and then trade him for a 1st to some sucker team.  If he was worth a late 1st on an expiring contract, how much will inflated stat rondo and a 5 year contract fetch?

Re: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other
« Reply #87 on: February 25, 2015, 12:16:53 PM »

Offline Granath

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2154
  • Tommy Points: 567
That said, it's not like Rondo is dead.  He proved to be a solid player for us last season.  His per-36 numbers this season were the best in his career:  9 points, 12.3 assists, 8.5 rebounds, 1.9 steals.   SUrprised those are the best of his career?  Well people typically remember his amazing stats during playoff runs... playoff runs when he averaged upwards of 43 minutes per game.  This season he averaged 30 minutes for us.   THink about it. 

I agree with everything else you said. But note he is not putting up the best per 36 numbers of his career.

The good: Rondo's 12.2 assists/36 are the best of his career and his 8.5 rebounds/36 are the best of his career.

The bad: His 9.4 points/36 is the WORST of his career. His shooting percentages are pretty much the worst of his career (his 2 pt % was slightly worse last year). His 3.9 turnovers/36 are the worst of his career. His 1.9 steals/36 are close to a career low. Then you look as some more advanced metrics and they're horrible. ORtg? A dismal 95. DRtg? A subpar 103. Difference of -8? Worst of his career. And those are just his Boston statistics.

So I don't see those as being his best statistics of his career.

As you said, he's not fitting in with Dallas much either. Assists/36 are WAY off )7.9 vs 12.2 for BOS). Rebounds are WAY off (5.7 vs 8.5). Scoring is up 2ppg. He's dismal in their system.

Personally, I don't want him back in FA. I think the team is covered adequately at PG now and as you said, he doesn't fit the system.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other
« Reply #88 on: February 25, 2015, 12:23:26 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36889
  • Tommy Points: 2969
It's a battle Rondo can't win.....Rick is coach ......the owners right hand man .....established

Rondo will be the guy to go in a heartbeat .


I know who I'd choose .....if I was deciding which to run my team ......and it wouldn't ever be Rondo over Rick Carlisle
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 12:41:12 PM by SHAQATTACK »

Re: Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other
« Reply #89 on: February 25, 2015, 12:27:24 PM »

Offline Eja117

  • NCE
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19274
  • Tommy Points: 1254
rondo is frustrated, danny screwed him over. The masterplan was padding his stats in a non playoff team in the east(read Celtics), and go for a max type of a deal(Knicks or another silly team), but now he is showing his true game in a packed team and conference and is facing a hell of a reality check.
Move of the year, getting rid of him
I don't blame anyone for thinking this