Author Topic: Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS  (Read 4196 times)

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Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS
« on: February 14, 2015, 10:25:24 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Phoenix receives: Avery Bradley, Garrett Temple, lesser of their own 2016 and Washington's 2016 1st round pick
Washington receives: Isaiah Thomas, Reggie Bullock*
Boston receives: Andre Miller, Rasual Butler, greater of Washington and Phoenix's 1st round pick

Why for Phoenix: the three point guard rotation is fun and all, but Bradley would probably fit on that team better, offering more defense and fitting in as a two alongside Dragic and Bledsoe.  The cost isn't that steep, as they give up IT and maybe move down in the draft in 2016.

Why for Washington: Beal has another stress fracture in his leg (his third in three years, which is sad considering how exciting a player he's become when healthy) and Washington has been slumping without him.  Thomas can help fill Beal's scoring while he's out, as well as lighten the load on both Wall and Beal once Beal has returned.

Why for Boston: That pick is unprotected.  Bradley is a young player who's still improving and on a very reasonable deal (especially with the soon-to-skyrocket salary cap) for the next three years beyond this.  Unprotected picks are getting a little more rare, but I think it's fair in this instance (especially since neither Phoenix or Washington are likely to have great chances at winning the lottery in 2016 even if they do finish in it).  I wouldn't do it for a protected pick -- even #1 protected only.  Anyway, this costs the C's one of their building blocks, but it also clears up salary for next summer --  enough salary to almost certainly have room to sign outright two max free agents without doing anything about Wallace.  (As it presently stands they're between about $6.5 and $8.5 million away from this goal, depending where their draft picks end up and where the salary cap is.  Moving $7.7 million owed next year creates critical space.) This would give Danny the ability to find two stars who wanted to play together and offer them a team to join.  He would then be able to use Wallace's contract as the primary component to match salaries for a third star in either a sign-and-trade or traditional trade.

*Reggie Bullock was recently acquired by the Suns in the Austin Rivers trade.  However, he can be traded in this instance since the rule is he can't be traded for 60 days if his salary is being used in aggregation with other players to match salaries.  However, the Suns can acquire Bradley and Temple just by using IT's salary, so Bullock is fine, and the Suns would wind up with a trade exception for his salary.  Furthermore, the Wizards are using the remainder of their Trevor Ariza trade exception to acquire Bullock, and the three players they are sending out are used to match IT's salary.

Re: Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2015, 11:51:18 AM »

Offline Smitty77

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We get hosed.

Re: Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2015, 01:06:03 PM »

Offline Depalma2002

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We get hosed.

I disagree. I like it from the Celtics standpoint. If the Suns are good with it, I'd be all for it.

Bradley is a starter by default. In reality, he is an overpaid, undersized back up SG albeit one that plays near elite on the ball defense. I'd gladly take the cap space back and the first round pick that has a very good chance of being in the lottery. Phoenix has a very tenuous lead over both OKC (1/2game) and NOP (1.5games) and are actually even in the loss column with the Thunder. They are playing the worst of the three.

And the way the Celtics are playing that pick could be extremely valuable as we may need to package it together with ours to move up in the draft to get one of the top wing prospects in the draft (Johnson, Hezonja, Oubre, or Winslow) as we might be playing our way out of position to get any and certainly not going to be high enough to get one of the top 2 of the group.

Avery Bradley for a late lottery pick plus expirings? Yes please.

Re: Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2015, 01:08:27 PM »

Offline saltlover

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We get hosed.

I disagree. I like it from the Celtics standpoint. If the Suns are good with it, I'd be all for it.

Bradley is a starter by default. In reality, he is an overpaid, undersized back up SG albeit one that plays near elite on the ball defense. I'd gladly take the cap space back and the first round pick that has a very good chance of being in the lottery. Phoenix has a very tenuous lead over both OKC (1/2game) and NOP (1.5games) and are actually even in the loss column with the Thunder. They are playing the worst of the three.

Avery Bradley for a late lottery pick plus expirings? Yes please.

One thing I want to point out is my proposal is for a 2016 pick, not 2015.  I still think it would wind up being a late lottery or low non-lottery, but that point should be clarified.

Re: Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2015, 01:15:46 PM »

Offline Depalma2002

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We get hosed.

I disagree. I like it from the Celtics standpoint. If the Suns are good with it, I'd be all for it.

Bradley is a starter by default. In reality, he is an overpaid, undersized back up SG albeit one that plays near elite on the ball defense. I'd gladly take the cap space back and the first round pick that has a very good chance of being in the lottery. Phoenix has a very tenuous lead over both OKC (1/2game) and NOP (1.5games) and are actually even in the loss column with the Thunder. They are playing the worst of the three.

Avery Bradley for a late lottery pick plus expirings? Yes please.

One thing I want to point out is my proposal is for a 2016 pick, not 2015.  I still think it would wind up being a late lottery or low non-lottery, but that point should be clarified.

Missed that. It might be less valuable to try to move up this year (but not by much) and I think it would still be in the same area or perhaps even better in 2016 since there is a good chance they lose Dragic to LAL or HOUS and of the teams currently behind them, OKC is likely to be healthier, AD is still developing and improving (is that freaking scary or what) and I wouldn't sleep on Minnesota as well with Rubio, Marting, Pek all healthy, Wiggins with a season under his belt and a likely impact rookie this year.

I definitely would still do it.

Total disclosure: I am not an AB fan at all.

Re: Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2015, 01:21:35 PM »

Offline saltlover

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We get hosed.

I disagree. I like it from the Celtics standpoint. If the Suns are good with it, I'd be all for it.

Bradley is a starter by default. In reality, he is an overpaid, undersized back up SG albeit one that plays near elite on the ball defense. I'd gladly take the cap space back and the first round pick that has a very good chance of being in the lottery. Phoenix has a very tenuous lead over both OKC (1/2game) and NOP (1.5games) and are actually even in the loss column with the Thunder. They are playing the worst of the three.

Avery Bradley for a late lottery pick plus expirings? Yes please.

One thing I want to point out is my proposal is for a 2016 pick, not 2015.  I still think it would wind up being a late lottery or low non-lottery, but that point should be clarified.

Missed that. It might be less valuable to try to move up this year (but not by much) and I think it would still be in the same area or perhaps even better in 2016 since there is a good chance they lose Dragic to LAL or HOUS and OKC and of the teams currently behind them, OKC is likely to be healthier, AD is still developing and improving (is that freaking scary or what) and I wouldn't sleep on Minnesota as well with Rubio, Marting, Pek all healthy, Wiggins with a season under his belt and a likely impact rookie this year.

I definitely would still do it.

Total disclosure: I am not an AB fan at all.

The primary reason I want it a 2016 pick is to keep as much room free as possible this offseason, and a draft pick takes up space with a cap hold.

(Also, I could tell you aren't an AB fan, by calling him overpaid.  I think he's paid at a perfectly reasonable level for what he brings.  I just think those dollars could be better utilized by the Celtics to acquire two max free agents next summer.  I also think AB gives Phoenix what they need more than Thomas does, and at essentially the same salary, which is why it's not an unreasonable trade for them.) 

Re: Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2015, 01:27:31 PM »

Offline byennie

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There's no need to move Bradley *just in case* we need the cap room. If we have a serious opportunity to sign a max level player, and we just need to clear Bradley's salary, we can get at least a pick swap for him later. On the other hand, if we don't use the cap space, we've sold him for cents on the dollar.

Re: Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2015, 02:13:53 PM »

Offline Depalma2002

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We get hosed.

I disagree. I like it from the Celtics standpoint. If the Suns are good with it, I'd be all for it.

Bradley is a starter by default. In reality, he is an overpaid, undersized back up SG albeit one that plays near elite on the ball defense. I'd gladly take the cap space back and the first round pick that has a very good chance of being in the lottery. Phoenix has a very tenuous lead over both OKC (1/2game) and NOP (1.5games) and are actually even in the loss column with the Thunder. They are playing the worst of the three.

Avery Bradley for a late lottery pick plus expirings? Yes please.

One thing I want to point out is my proposal is for a 2016 pick, not 2015.  I still think it would wind up being a late lottery or low non-lottery, but that point should be clarified.

Missed that. It might be less valuable to try to move up this year (but not by much) and I think it would still be in the same area or perhaps even better in 2016 since there is a good chance they lose Dragic to LAL or HOUS and OKC and of the teams currently behind them, OKC is likely to be healthier, AD is still developing and improving (is that freaking scary or what) and I wouldn't sleep on Minnesota as well with Rubio, Marting, Pek all healthy, Wiggins with a season under his belt and a likely impact rookie this year.

I definitely would still do it.

Total disclosure: I am not an AB fan at all.

The primary reason I want it a 2016 pick is to keep as much room free as possible this offseason, and a draft pick takes up space with a cap hold.

(Also, I could tell you aren't an AB fan, by calling him overpaid.  I think he's paid at a perfectly reasonable level for what he brings.  I just think those dollars could be better utilized by the Celtics to acquire two max free agents next summer.  I also think AB gives Phoenix what they need more than Thomas does, and at essentially the same salary, which is why it's not an unreasonable trade for them.)

I'm not a Thomas fan either. He's an under-sized bench scorer. The one thing he has going for him is that his contract is about the same as Avery's now, but while Avery's creeps slightly up, IT's creep slightly down. I really would rather not have either. If I had to choose one, I'd keep Avery.

I think Avery is overpaid, but not grossly. He's making top 8 rotation money and I don't view him as a quality starter and he has displayed that he doesn't have the PG skills to come in and play both guard positions to get 30 minutes off the bench. If he could, I would like him and his contract a LOT better. As it is, if we had two starting guards that can both play the point, then I would like to keep AB as a guy who can give me 30 minutes off the bench in a shortened rotation, but that's not the way our roster is set up.

Re: Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2015, 02:15:36 PM »

Offline Depalma2002

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There's no need to move Bradley *just in case* we need the cap room. If we have a serious opportunity to sign a max level player, and we just need to clear Bradley's salary, we can get at least a pick swap for him later. On the other hand, if we don't use the cap space, we've sold him for cents on the dollar.

You consider a lottery pick for AB pennies on the dollar? What do you think his true value is?

Re: Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2015, 02:28:04 PM »

Offline byennie

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There's no need to move Bradley *just in case* we need the cap room. If we have a serious opportunity to sign a max level player, and we just need to clear Bradley's salary, we can get at least a pick swap for him later. On the other hand, if we don't use the cap space, we've sold him for cents on the dollar.

You consider a lottery pick for AB pennies on the dollar? What do you think his true value is?

I misread it as a pick swap.

That said, I'm not sure you can call the greater pick from two teams who are currently #4 and #8 in their conferences as a "lottery" pick. More like "mid-1st".

A mid first is a decent return, I agree. I just think clearing rosters for free agents before you actually need to isn't a great strategy. He's still an asset right now. He may be needed in a trade. He may help you win games and attract that F/A. It's a leap IMO to sell a useful player under conttact in advance.

Re: Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2015, 02:34:29 PM »

Offline saltlover

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There's no need to move Bradley *just in case* we need the cap room. If we have a serious opportunity to sign a max level player, and we just need to clear Bradley's salary, we can get at least a pick swap for him later. On the other hand, if we don't use the cap space, we've sold him for cents on the dollar.

You consider a lottery pick for AB pennies on the dollar? What do you think his true value is?

I misread it as a pick swap.

That said, I'm not sure you can call the greater pick from two teams who are currently #4 and #8 in their conferences as a "lottery" pick. More like "mid-1st".

A mid first is a decent return, I agree. I just think clearing rosters for free agents before you actually need to isn't a great strategy. He's still an asset right now. He may be needed in a trade. He may help you win games and attract that F/A. It's a leap IMO to sell a useful player under conttact in advance.

It was proposed as the greater of the two, in 2016.  Solid chance it's in the late lottery, likely no worse than 20, and a small chance of being a great pick.

EDIT, I either misread your post, or you edited it from "lesser" to "greater" while I was posting.

Re: Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2015, 02:35:28 PM »

Offline Depalma2002

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There's no need to move Bradley *just in case* we need the cap room. If we have a serious opportunity to sign a max level player, and we just need to clear Bradley's salary, we can get at least a pick swap for him later. On the other hand, if we don't use the cap space, we've sold him for cents on the dollar.

You consider a lottery pick for AB pennies on the dollar? What do you think his true value is?

I misread it as a pick swap.

That said, I'm not sure you can call the lesser pick from two teams who are currently #4 and #8 in their conferences as a "lottery" pick.

Phoenix is number 8 right now and sinking fast and this is next year and it looks like they are going to be either dealing or losing Dragic and even returning the same team, I don't see the odd of them surpassing any of the teams that are ahead of them as being very good while I see the odds of an OKC team which had many games lost to injury by their top two players are a great candidate to knock Phoenix into the lottery and the Pelicans whose superstar is still developing are a great candidate as well and there are other longer shots with a decent chance as well. I very much like the odds of the Suns being in the lottery next year.

The only thing that might keep them in the playoffs next year is if Silvers proposed playoff change were to pass in be implemented that quickly, then they might make it in despite being 9 or 10 in the West.

Re: Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2015, 04:57:52 PM »

Offline Irish Stew

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I would love to get Bradley's contract out of here, but does basically exchanging Thomas for Bradley seem like a good move for Phoenix, and more importantly for us, one that McDonough  is likely to do?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 05:26:03 PM by Irish Stew »

Re: Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2015, 05:14:07 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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I don't understand.  I. Thomas has a PER almost TWICE as high as Avery.  19.7 to 10.8.  That is NOT even close!!! 

IT's plus/minus for PG's is 16th and AB's is 39th.

Guys, this is simply NOT close.  IT has put together two very solid years and has in actuality played well in his four years in the league.

Plus, Danny talked with him first in the free agency period which seems to scream that Danny likes his game!!

Smitty77

Re: Trade Idea: BOS-PHX-WAS
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2015, 05:16:41 PM »

Offline BornReady

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Don't like this trade for Washington and celtics

Washington loses 2 proven veterans that are productive and lose depth at the 2 spot

Celtics although receiving another pick, end up with more veteran players to decrease both our rookies playing time and win more games
Also we lose a nice young player that although is overpaid could be a future asset when the cap rises

Phoenix also loses potentially a lottery pick if they don't make the playoffs