Author Topic: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)  (Read 21296 times)

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Re: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)
« Reply #60 on: February 15, 2015, 09:20:17 AM »

Offline Smitty77

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IT on Skills Challenge right now on TNT!

Just lost to Patrick Beverly?!?!

And this is usually predictive of the BEST PG's?:-)))  Who cares.

Smitty77

Just for the record, I'm all for acquiring IT.

I was just letting folks know that the subject of this thread (IT) was on TV (that was my first post) and then the result (2nd post).

I wasn't being judgmental (because being judgmental kinda sucks)  ;)nor drawing any conclusion about the value of a player based on a dumb-ass exhibition/competition.

EDIT:Smitty,  It's funny but I've agreed with almost everything that you have proffered in this thread, except the suggestion that I was implying that IT's performance relates to his value to us.

TP for the thread, by the way. From your lips to Danny's ears, but as we all know, IT was important enough to DA to get that first call in FA.

Csfan,

I apologize for being so short!!  I actually was recording the All-Star competitions and came home and watched the Skills Competition since you told us IT was playing.  Thanks for the heads up.  That being said, that is the biggest joke of a competition in All-Star weekend history.  The players were not even taking it seriously, as they KNEW it was ridiculous.  So sad for the NBA to be frank.

I clearly HOPE and pray that we land I.T.  He just has the "it" factor!!  Pardon the pun:-))  He plays HARD all the time.  I want that on my team.

Smitty77

Re: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)
« Reply #61 on: February 15, 2015, 10:48:08 AM »

Offline csfansince60s

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IT on Skills Challenge right now on TNT!

Just lost to Patrick Beverly?!?!

And this is usually predictive of the BEST PG's?:-)))  Who cares.

Smitty77

Just for the record, I'm all for acquiring IT.

I was just letting folks know that the subject of this thread (IT) was on TV (that was my first post) and then the result (2nd post).

I wasn't being judgmental (because being judgmental kinda sucks)  ;)nor drawing any conclusion about the value of a player based on a dumb-ass exhibition/competition.

EDIT:Smitty,  It's funny but I've agreed with almost everything that you have proffered in this thread, except the suggestion that I was implying that IT's performance relates to his value to us.

TP for the thread, by the way. From your lips to Danny's ears, but as we all know, IT was important enough to DA to get that first call in FA.

Csfan,

I apologize for being so short!!  I actually was recording the All-Star competitions and came home and watched the Skills Competition since you told us IT was playing.  Thanks for the heads up.  That being said, that is the biggest joke of a competition in All-Star weekend history.  The players were not even taking it seriously, as they KNEW it was ridiculous.  So sad for the NBA to be frank.

I clearly HOPE and pray that we land I.T.  He just has the "it" factor!!  Pardon the pun:-))  He plays HARD all the time.  I want that on my team.

Smitty77

Smitty, all good man. We all want the same thing here: 18 and more.

Agree, too. Would love to get IT here. A dynamic, young creator would be a lot of fun to watch and would help our team immensely.

Re: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)
« Reply #62 on: February 15, 2015, 11:03:28 AM »

Offline BleedGreen1989

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We could just give PHX the Minnesota pick back they gave us for Brandan Wright lol. That'd be like Brandan Wright for Isiah Thomas.
*CB Miami Heat*
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Re: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)
« Reply #63 on: February 15, 2015, 11:19:53 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think our future is Smart so I would bet we do not do it.

Re: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)
« Reply #64 on: February 15, 2015, 11:27:35 AM »

Offline outflip50

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I think our future is Smart so I would bet we do not do it.

This guy comes off the bench, no issue there. Would be a great scoring punch off the bench beside KO also

Re: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)
« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2015, 11:47:36 AM »

Offline chambers

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Not interested in any of these mediocre level guys taking up any cap room.
Would never give up a first round pick either.

There is just no need to have a guy like this on our roster.
He's a massive defensive liability and takes shots away from Smart and our other young guys.

Nice back up PG but not what we need.
We've already signed Bradley to a long term deal and we just don't these guys on our roster and we look to clear as much cap room as possible.

Dragic and Thomas are both way over rated in my opinion and they don't do anything 'elite'.
They are both good, solid NBA players and Dragic is a legitimate starter in the NBA. Thomas is a bench PG and great role player, but we are trying to remove these contracts from our roster to gain future flex.

I am sorry Chambers, but back up PG's simply do not have 19.7 PER's.  He was about as good as a starter with the Kings last year as well.  This is NOT a one year anomaly!!  I.T. is 15th among PG's in real plus minus this year.  We need scoring.  Did you watch the uploaded videos analyzing his game?  If not, take 15 minutes and watch BOTH of them!!  We have to have some players to attract players to want to even come to Boston so we can take advantage of that future flexibility that you refer to.  Players simply are NOT beating the doors down to want to come and join this team are presently constructed.

You seriously would not try to pick up I.T. for Bass and a late first rounder?  He will only cost us 6.9 million next year, 6.6 million in 2016/2017, and 6.3 million in 2017/2018.  With the new TV deal, that will be a STEAL for a guy that can be a GREAT spark off the bench!!!

Smitty77


Smitty! Hope I didn't come off as rude in my earlier post. I re-read it and thought..ouch. lol.

I understand why you like Thomas, I also understand that he could be a valuable trade asset because of his win shares (Danny's favorite statistic for college players).

My problem isn't necessarily with Thomas, but more with our current team situation.
For Thomas to come into a rebuilding situation, and come off the bench for Marcus Smart and Avery Bradley (and James Young?) is just throwing another Evan Turner type player into the mix who we are consistently trying to 'showcase' for potential trades.

We also don't have superstars, and as much as Thomas is a great player- to me he's the kind of player that's more of a 6th man of the year candidate rather than a building block, and I have always opposed the idea of signing mid-level talent to medium sized contracts before you have your stars.
We already have this situational/trade asset player on our team (Evan Turner)- no one really knows why we signed him other than he was going REALLY cheap. The problem is that he's never going to be part of the long term future and he's grinding minutes away with all those horrid jumpshots and floaters.

On a young team that's emphasising the use of ball movement and spacing, having a point guard that averages only 3.7 assists in 25 minutes a game and relies on a high usage % is not the best move for what we are trying to build here.
 I also think we simply don't need another guard, certainly not one that takes a large number of point guard minutes from Smart and shots away from our younger 'developing' players.
I'll also add that Thomas is a WAY better player than Evan Turner- I just don't think he makes sense for us right now.
If we had signed 2 max free agents to come and play and Smart was playing full time SG for us, then I'd look to grab an elite role player like Thomas.

I just think that right now he's just another Bradley/Turner/Bass type contract that would be hogging cap space- even if he is good value at $6-7 million.

He basically takes minutes away from Smart (or Bradley) and takes all the shots that we want Sully, Olynyk, Smart, Young, Bradley taking-just as Evan Turner, Bass and Thornton are doing now.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2015, 11:55:51 AM »

Offline mctyson

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Thomas has no role on this team at 7.5mil

Re: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)
« Reply #67 on: February 15, 2015, 11:56:22 AM »

Offline chambers

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Not interested in any of these mediocre level guys taking up any cap room.
Would never give up a first round pick either.

There is just no need to have a guy like this on our roster.
He's a massive defensive liability and takes shots away from Smart and our other young guys.

Nice back up PG but not what we need.
We've already signed Bradley to a long term deal and we just don't these guys on our roster and we look to clear as much cap room as possible.

Dragic and Thomas are both way over rated in my opinion and they don't do anything 'elite'.
They are both good, solid NBA players and Dragic is a legitimate starter in the NBA. Thomas is a bench PG and great role player, but we are trying to remove these contracts from our roster to gain future flex.

I am sorry Chambers, but back up PG's simply do not have 19.7 PER's.  He was about as good as a starter with the Kings last year as well.  This is NOT a one year anomaly!!  I.T. is 15th among PG's in real plus minus this year.  We need scoring.  Did you watch the uploaded videos analyzing his game?  If not, take 15 minutes and watch BOTH of them!!  We have to have some players to attract players to want to even come to Boston so we can take advantage of that future flexibility that you refer to.  Players simply are NOT beating the doors down to want to come and join this team are presently constructed.

You seriously would not try to pick up I.T. for Bass and a late first rounder?  He will only cost us 6.9 million next year, 6.6 million in 2016/2017, and 6.3 million in 2017/2018.  With the new TV deal, that will be a STEAL for a guy that can be a GREAT spark off the bench!!!

Smitty77

I'll also add that although I don't agree with trading for Thomas, I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see the Suns and Celtics have some kind of shady deal in place already between Ainge and McDonough.


"Celtics complete trade with Phoenix sending Brandon Bass+a second round pick for disgruntled Suns point guard and everyone's happy! "

(except me).
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)
« Reply #68 on: February 15, 2015, 12:03:45 PM »

Offline gpap

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How about this:

Celts get Isaiah Thomas and Miles Plumlee
Suns get Avery Bradley, Tyler Zeller, 2015 Clippers pick, 2016 Cavs pick.

Re: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)
« Reply #69 on: February 15, 2015, 12:06:34 PM »

Offline BleedGreen1989

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How about this:

Celts get Isaiah Thomas and Miles Plumlee
Suns get Avery Bradley, Tyler Zeller, 2015 Clippers pick, 2016 Cavs pick.

That's a large overpay for Boston.
*CB Miami Heat*
Kyle Lowry, Dwayne Wade, 13th pick in even numbered rounds, 18th pick in odd numbered rounds.

Re: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2015, 12:20:31 PM »

Offline chambers

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How about this:

Celts get Isaiah Thomas and Miles Plumlee
Suns get Avery Bradley, Tyler Zeller, 2015 Clippers pick, 2016 Cavs pick.

That's a large overpay for Boston.
Bass and Bradley gets it done I think. Depends how badly they think teams want Thomas. Their problem is that teams know he doesn't wanna be the 3rd fiddle.

I guess they're going to spin his 'value' as the Dragic replacement for them, perhaps being not so desperate to get rid of him... if they're expecting Dragic to walk then they're gonna go with Thomas at 7 million instead of Dragic at 15/16 million.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)
« Reply #71 on: February 15, 2015, 12:33:59 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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Not interested in any of these mediocre level guys taking up any cap room.
Would never give up a first round pick either.

There is just no need to have a guy like this on our roster.
He's a massive defensive liability and takes shots away from Smart and our other young guys.

Nice back up PG but not what we need.
We've already signed Bradley to a long term deal and we just don't these guys on our roster and we look to clear as much cap room as possible.

Dragic and Thomas are both way over rated in my opinion and they don't do anything 'elite'.
They are both good, solid NBA players and Dragic is a legitimate starter in the NBA. Thomas is a bench PG and great role player, but we are trying to remove these contracts from our roster to gain future flex.

I am sorry Chambers, but back up PG's simply do not have 19.7 PER's.  He was about as good as a starter with the Kings last year as well.  This is NOT a one year anomaly!!  I.T. is 15th among PG's in real plus minus this year.  We need scoring.  Did you watch the uploaded videos analyzing his game?  If not, take 15 minutes and watch BOTH of them!!  We have to have some players to attract players to want to even come to Boston so we can take advantage of that future flexibility that you refer to.  Players simply are NOT beating the doors down to want to come and join this team are presently constructed.

You seriously would not try to pick up I.T. for Bass and a late first rounder?  He will only cost us 6.9 million next year, 6.6 million in 2016/2017, and 6.3 million in 2017/2018.  With the new TV deal, that will be a STEAL for a guy that can be a GREAT spark off the bench!!!

Smitty77


Smitty! Hope I didn't come off as rude in my earlier post. I re-read it and thought..ouch. lol.

I understand why you like Thomas, I also understand that he could be a valuable trade asset because of his win shares (Danny's favorite statistic for college players).

My problem isn't necessarily with Thomas, but more with our current team situation.
For Thomas to come into a rebuilding situation, and come off the bench for Marcus Smart and Avery Bradley (and James Young?) is just throwing another Evan Turner type player into the mix who we are consistently trying to 'showcase' for potential trades.

We also don't have superstars, and as much as Thomas is a great player- to me he's the kind of player that's more of a 6th man of the year candidate rather than a building block, and I have always opposed the idea of signing mid-level talent to medium sized contracts before you have your stars.
We already have this situational/trade asset player on our team (Evan Turner)- no one really knows why we signed him other than he was going REALLY cheap. The problem is that he's never going to be part of the long term future and he's grinding minutes away with all those horrid jumpshots and floaters.

On a young team that's emphasising the use of ball movement and spacing, having a point guard that averages only 3.7 assists in 25 minutes a game and relies on a high usage % is not the best move for what we are trying to build here.
 I also think we simply don't need another guard, certainly not one that takes a large number of point guard minutes from Smart and shots away from our younger 'developing' players.
I'll also add that Thomas is a WAY better player than Evan Turner- I just don't think he makes sense for us right now.
If we had signed 2 max free agents to come and play and Smart was playing full time SG for us, then I'd look to grab an elite role player like Thomas.

I just think that right now he's just another Bradley/Turner/Bass type contract that would be hogging cap space- even if he is good value at $6-7 million.

He basically takes minutes away from Smart (or Bradley) and takes all the shots that we want Sully, Olynyk, Smart, Young, Bradley taking-just as Evan Turner, Bass and Thornton are doing now.

Chambers,

I respect your opinion.  You and I simply have a different view of I.T.  He is not asked to be a big assist guy this year with the Suns.  Last year, he averaged 6.3 assists in under 35 minutes per game.  He can pass if asked.  Did you watch the two video analyses of Thomas, comparing him with Kyrie?  If not, please watch them.  No, I don't think he is a pure PG by any stretch, but there truly aren't many of them left in the ever changing NBA.  We got spoiled with Rondo being a true PG mostly due to his inability to score at a high rate.  I think that if AB is the guy traded for IT, then that solves part of your listed dilemma.  I want to personally see more of Turner at SF and see how he does there.  Turner might not be a long-timer with us anyway.

Smitty77

Re: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)
« Reply #72 on: February 15, 2015, 12:34:49 PM »

Offline PickNRoll

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Thomas has no role on this team at 7.5mil
How about playmaker,go to scorer, guy who gets to the FT line, guy who creates his own shots? All things we lack.

Re: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)
« Reply #73 on: February 15, 2015, 12:36:14 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Isiah can play but he is short and that will cause problems on D.   What is up with this blog's fascination with tweeners and small guy?

Re: Isaiah Thomas odd man out in Phoenix (hoopshype.com)
« Reply #74 on: February 15, 2015, 12:45:26 PM »

Offline Jonny CC

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Isiah can play but he is short and that will cause problems on D.   What is up with this blog's fascination with tweeners and small guy?

I think the blog is fascinated with good players but some people get mesmerized by height as if that's the only factor.  There is a similar obsession with "rim protectors".
Before a game on Christmas against the Pacers, Bird told Chuck Person that he had a present for him. During the game, Bird shot a 3-pointer in front of Person. Immediately after releasing the ball, Bird said to Person, "Merry F!#*ing Christmas!" and then the shot went in.