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Trade idea with TWolves
« on: January 31, 2015, 10:59:05 PM »

Offline gpap

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Celts get Mo Williams and Nikola Pekovic
Wolves get Marcus Thornton, Brandon Bass, Kelly Olynyk and future pick

Re: Trade idea with TWolves
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2015, 11:40:25 PM »

Offline Alleyoopster

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Celts get Mo Williams and Nikola Pekovic
Wolves get Marcus Thornton, Brandon Bass, Kelly Olynyk and future pick

Why would Minnesota trade for Thornton and Bass.  They can wait and sign them for nothing in July if they wanted. And, they likely want to keep Pekovic.   

Re: Trade idea with TWolves
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2015, 02:45:57 AM »

Offline konkmv

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Why should we give olynyc and a pick for a non defending center

Re: Trade idea with TWolves
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2015, 02:56:27 AM »

Offline SRaposa33

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The only reason they would trade for Thornton is to clear cap. In other words if they wanted to dump something else. Maybe a player with future committed money they've given up on or don't like their fit.That's why I don't think Pekovic works here. As you said in the reply before me, the Wolves probably want to keep him.

I also "worked up" something involving Minnesota but I was going in the direction of Thad Young, and Dieng. Celtics throw in two first rounders and Olynyk with Thornton ('s contract). They haven't had much playing time together, but I don't know that Thad can hang as a four in the West. Seems like a weak spot for the Wolves. And Dieng is an odd pair with Pek. Playing that combo they forfeit offensive competitiveness at the all-important "four" in the West. With Rubio coming back, Martin, Wiggins, and Pek they have a solid identity. Insert a money power forward there and they could be interesting.

Dumping Thad's 2015-and-beyond $9M salary frees up options for Minny. Gives 'em a re-do in a sense. They could use that money to sign back Love. Or someone like Millsap or Monroe? In the meantime they could see what Bennett's got to close out this year, they'll be drafting in the top five most likely this season, and they'll be stacked with "double ones" the following two years. C's would get a couple productive NBA talents. Sully with those two is intriguing. Then get offensive and aggressive guys at the one and two. My dream scenario: trade up for E.Mudiay, sign J.Butler away from Bulls. Thoughts?

Re: Trade idea with TWolves
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2015, 06:17:27 AM »

Offline Depalma2002

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Celts get Mo Williams and Nikola Pekovic
Wolves get Marcus Thornton, Brandon Bass, Kelly Olynyk and future pick

Why would Minnesota trade for Thornton and Bass.  They can wait and sign them for nothing in July if they wanted. And, they likely want to keep Pekovic.

Because, unless the Celtics are willing to use the Rondo exception for Pekovic than the T-Wolves would need to take back salary and they would probably want that salary to be in the form of expiring contracts.

Right now they are using Dieng a lot at the 4 to play them together but ideally I think they would like to get out from under the Pekovic contract and leave Dieng at center.

I don't like this deal from the Boston perspective. Pekovic is not the defensive anchor the Celtics need and while he is a much better low post scorer than Zeller, the overall upgrade is not all that great, certainly not enough to pay another 36M or so left on Pek's deal. I would take him in a salary dump and give the Wolves salary relief but I don't want Ainge giving up assets for him, at least until I can try to add something through the draft or free agency. If I'm setttling for a low-post scorer, average defender, I'd much rather offer that money to Greg Monroe first and if I'm looking for a rim protector than I'm not looking at either.

I actually like this deal from Minnesota's perspective. Unless they have some bad lottery luck, they could add Okafor or Towns to the mix. A 5/4 rotation of Dieng, Okafor/Towns, Olynyk looks better than a rotation of Dieng, Okafor/Town, Pekovic because at least with Olynyk you have one of the guys in your rotation that can stretch the defense. While with Pek you are looking at all guys who are playing close to the basket. Plus, you get a pick and you have 12M to use in free agency.

At best, Pek is an average to slightly below average starter making above average money. At worst, if Okafor/Towns comes via the draft, Pek could be a very expensive 6th-8th man.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 06:22:55 AM by Depalma2002 »

Re: Trade idea with TWolves
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2015, 06:36:32 AM »

Offline BornReady

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i dont see either team making this deal

the C's lose a pick and a young player in olynyk 
and we gain mo and pekovic which would only make sense if we wanted to make the playoffs this season

timberwolves lose 2 solid players which they probably want to keep and try make the playoffs next season

Re: Trade idea with TWolves
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2015, 06:45:42 AM »

Offline BornReady

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The only reason they would trade for Thornton is to clear cap. In other words if they wanted to dump something else. Maybe a player with future committed money they've given up on or don't like their fit.That's why I don't think Pekovic works here. As you said in the reply before me, the Wolves probably want to keep him.

I also "worked up" something involving Minnesota but I was going in the direction of Thad Young, and Dieng. Celtics throw in two first rounders and Olynyk with Thornton ('s contract). They haven't had much playing time together, but I don't know that Thad can hang as a four in the West. Seems like a weak spot for the Wolves. And Dieng is an odd pair with Pek. Playing that combo they forfeit offensive competitiveness at the all-important "four" in the West. With Rubio coming back, Martin, Wiggins, and Pek they have a solid identity. Insert a money power forward there and they could be interesting.

Dumping Thad's 2015-and-beyond $9M salary frees up options for Minny. Gives 'em a re-do in a sense. They could use that money to sign back Love. Or someone like Millsap or Monroe? In the meantime they could see what Bennett's got to close out this year, they'll be drafting in the top five most likely this season, and they'll be stacked with "double ones" the following two years. C's would get a couple productive NBA talents. Sully with those two is intriguing. Then get offensive and aggressive guys at the one and two. My dream scenario: trade up for E.Mudiay, sign J.Butler away from Bulls. Thoughts?


i butler leaving the bulls, we would probably have to overpay him by a lot
also why would butler want to sign with the C's other than the money
 wont there be other teams in big cities and with more talent to compete

but i dont mind trading up for either mudiay, towns or okafor depending on the picks we trade
wouldnt mind trading our pick this year with 2 future seconds or our pick with clippers

i would not trade up if they want brooklyn, memphis, dallas or cleveland cuz u never know what may happen in the future

Re: Trade idea with TWolves
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2015, 12:28:35 PM »

Offline gpap

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Why should we give olynyc and a pick for a non defending center

Because Olynyk is not a very good player

Re: Trade idea with TWolves
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2015, 12:30:05 PM »

Offline gpap

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i dont see either team making this deal

the C's lose a pick and a young player in olynyk 
and we gain mo and pekovic which would only make sense if we wanted to make the playoffs this season

timberwolves lose 2 solid players which they probably want to keep and try make the playoffs next season

TWolves have a horrid record. I would think they're playing for ping-pong balls right now and in this deal they get cap relief.

For the Celts, we actually get a center and a decent shooting point guard.

Re: Trade idea with TWolves
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2015, 12:57:41 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Celts get Mo Williams and Nikola Pekovic
Wolves get Marcus Thornton, Brandon Bass, Kelly Olynyk and future pick

Why would Minnesota trade for Thornton and Bass.  They can wait and sign them for nothing in July if they wanted. And, they likely want to keep Pekovic.

Because, unless the Celtics are willing to use the Rondo exception for Pekovic than the T-Wolves would need to take back salary and they would probably want that salary to be in the form of expiring contracts.

Right now they are using Dieng a lot at the 4 to play them together but ideally I think they would like to get out from under the Pekovic contract and leave Dieng at center.

I don't like this deal from the Boston perspective. Pekovic is not the defensive anchor the Celtics need and while he is a much better low post scorer than Zeller, the overall upgrade is not all that great, certainly not enough to pay another 36M or so left on Pek's deal. I would take him in a salary dump and give the Wolves salary relief but I don't want Ainge giving up assets for him, at least until I can try to add something through the draft or free agency. If I'm setttling for a low-post scorer, average defender, I'd much rather offer that money to Greg Monroe first and if I'm looking for a rim protector than I'm not looking at either.

I actually like this deal from Minnesota's perspective. Unless they have some bad lottery luck, they could add Okafor or Towns to the mix. A 5/4 rotation of Dieng, Okafor/Towns, Olynyk looks better than a rotation of Dieng, Okafor/Town, Pekovic because at least with Olynyk you have one of the guys in your rotation that can stretch the defense. While with Pek you are looking at all guys who are playing close to the basket. Plus, you get a pick and you have 12M to use in free agency.

At best, Pek is an average to slightly below average starter making above average money. At worst, if Okafor/Towns comes via the draft, Pek could be a very expensive 6th-8th man.

If the Celtics want Pekovic, they should absolutely be wiling to use the Rondo exception to acquire him.  I don't see the Wolves trading Pek for Olynyk and a pick, but there's no reason to give them players they don't want or need if you don't have to.

We can debate all day long about whether Pek makes sense for the Celtics to acquire, but we should never debate whether it makes good negotiating sense to offer teams things they neither want nor need if you don't need to match salaries.  In this case, Boston can absorb Pek's contract outright with the Rondo exception and Williams (although I'm not sure why we're acquiring him, but I think it was an artifact as part of getting rid of Thornton) with the Wright exception.  No need to make trades, real or hypothetical, more complicated than they need to be.

Re: Trade idea with TWolves
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2015, 05:19:02 PM »

Offline Depalma2002

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Celts get Mo Williams and Nikola Pekovic
Wolves get Marcus Thornton, Brandon Bass, Kelly Olynyk and future pick

Why would Minnesota trade for Thornton and Bass.  They can wait and sign them for nothing in July if they wanted. And, they likely want to keep Pekovic.

Because, unless the Celtics are willing to use the Rondo exception for Pekovic than the T-Wolves would need to take back salary and they would probably want that salary to be in the form of expiring contracts.

Right now they are using Dieng a lot at the 4 to play them together but ideally I think they would like to get out from under the Pekovic contract and leave Dieng at center.

I don't like this deal from the Boston perspective. Pekovic is not the defensive anchor the Celtics need and while he is a much better low post scorer than Zeller, the overall upgrade is not all that great, certainly not enough to pay another 36M or so left on Pek's deal. I would take him in a salary dump and give the Wolves salary relief but I don't want Ainge giving up assets for him, at least until I can try to add something through the draft or free agency. If I'm setttling for a low-post scorer, average defender, I'd much rather offer that money to Greg Monroe first and if I'm looking for a rim protector than I'm not looking at either.

I actually like this deal from Minnesota's perspective. Unless they have some bad lottery luck, they could add Okafor or Towns to the mix. A 5/4 rotation of Dieng, Okafor/Towns, Olynyk looks better than a rotation of Dieng, Okafor/Town, Pekovic because at least with Olynyk you have one of the guys in your rotation that can stretch the defense. While with Pek you are looking at all guys who are playing close to the basket. Plus, you get a pick and you have 12M to use in free agency.

At best, Pek is an average to slightly below average starter making above average money. At worst, if Okafor/Towns comes via the draft, Pek could be a very expensive 6th-8th man.

If the Celtics want Pekovic, they should absolutely be wiling to use the Rondo exception to acquire him.  I don't see the Wolves trading Pek for Olynyk and a pick, but there's no reason to give them players they don't want or need if you don't have to.

We can debate all day long about whether Pek makes sense for the Celtics to acquire, but we should never debate whether it makes good negotiating sense to offer teams things they neither want nor need if you don't need to match salaries.  In this case, Boston can absorb Pek's contract outright with the Rondo exception and Williams (although I'm not sure why we're acquiring him, but I think it was an artifact as part of getting rid of Thornton) with the Wright exception.  No need to make trades, real or hypothetical, more complicated than they need to be.

But using the trade exception would just turn this trade from bad to horrible. Just burning another potential asset for a below average starting center.

The only redeeming thing about this trade is that, if there were no free agents on their radar, they could use this deal to stay above the cap which would keep the exceptions from disappearing. Using them in this deal would be a huge mistake. It would also put the Celtics over the luxury tax if we aren't sending out salary.

Just because you can make things easier for the other side by using exceptions doesn't mean you should. We're helping them get out of a bad contract. Taking back expirings should not be a problem. If it is, then keep Pek. Either start him over the better player (Dieng) or have a ridiculously expensive backup. No need to make trades, real or hypothetical, worse than they need be.

Again, I would hope Ainge wouldn't make the original trade. I would run from it twice as fast with the exception used instead of the expirings.