Author Topic: With deflategate dying down, media manufactures new scandal regarding Blount  (Read 18811 times)

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Offline Cman

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Belichick interpreted to his advantage ambiguous language regarding prohibition of use of taping "in the game", which he stated he thought just meant he could not use it for the game in which it was being taped, but did not prohibit him from using it for future games.  It was an argument not without merit.  Apparently most other teams until just before spygate did the same thing.  For people to use Spygate as example of how much the Patriots cheated, try to understand the facts of what actually was the rule, what Belichick's position was, how they never denied taping the games.  The Pats pushed the envelope on that particular rule, the NFL slammed them hard (way too hard, in my opinion), and the reality is that the taint will never go away in the mainstream media, fans loyal to other teams, and casual observers of these "scandals", who, in my view, don't put much effort to look at all the facts and put this in proper perspective.

That leaves us Pats fans today feeling much like Oakland Raider fans probably felt during their heyday: It brings us closer together, frankly.

This, this and this. I'd love to force every Spygate poster to read and comprehend this.

.... or even just check Wikipedia for some basic facts.
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Offline fairweatherfan

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Belichick interpreted to his advantage ambiguous language regarding prohibition of use of taping "in the game", which he stated he thought just meant he could not use it for the game in which it was being taped, but did not prohibit him from using it for future games.  It was an argument not without merit.  Apparently most other teams until just before spygate did the same thing.  For people to use Spygate as example of how much the Patriots cheated, try to understand the facts of what actually was the rule, what Belichick's position was, how they never denied taping the games.  The Pats pushed the envelope on that particular rule, the NFL slammed them hard (way too hard, in my opinion), and the reality is that the taint will never go away in the mainstream media, fans loyal to other teams, and casual observers of these "scandals", who, in my view, don't put much effort to look at all the facts and put this in proper perspective.

That leaves us Pats fans today feeling much like Oakland Raider fans probably felt during their heyday: It brings us closer together, frankly.

This, this and this. I'd love to force every Spygate poster to read and comprehend this.

Why not just have them watch the South Park where Mr Cartmanez teaches the inner-city kids to cheat?

I mis-interpreted the rules!

Offline kozlodoev

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Where's the high risk? My understanding is that refs rarely if ever recheck footballs after inspection, so the risk of getting caught is low, and the stated penalty is something like $25k, so the consequences of getting caught are also low.  Negative attention like we're seeing here isn't something a team would reasonably expect for such a small infraction, and isn't really a tangible punishment anyway.  Doesn't seem remotely high risk to me.
The risk of getting caught in the act is pretty high -- we're talking about one individual that has to mess with a bunch of balls in a fairly limited space and time span. You're also talking about balls that are routinely handled by multiple officials and opposing players. The chance of discovery is fairly high.

And if the difference in feel is so minor that all those people couldn't even tell something was not right (mind you these are folks who handle footballs for a living), how high do you think the reward is?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 04:37:01 PM by kozlodoev »
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Offline Beat LA

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BREAKING NEWS
Forget whoever this Blount guy is, because Tom Brady has a cold. ::)  Didn't this happen the last time the Patriots went to the Superbowl?  I seem to remember the lead up and post game shows discussing cold medicine, especially Curran and Giardi arguing over nyquil, lol. ::) ;D  What a story (sarcasm)! 

Offline kraidstar

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The bottom line is that the Patriots have *some* history. But so does the entire league. This is like calling the Red Sox cheaters because they probably had some players use PEDs. Every team has problems here and there. The league is full of teams who have won games with PED users, injured opponents through headhunting, circumvented the salary cap, and everything in-between. Not to mention the off-field crimes, albeit those don't have any on-field "cheater" advantage.

Spygate was real - but it has been exaggerated by 100x over the years. Hardly anyone can recall the details outside of New England. If you polled, I bet 90% of people think they got caught taping the Rams before the Super Bowl. Didn't happen and was a totally made up rumor. Did other teams do it? So much so that there was a league-wide memo. The Pats got caught, paid a heavy price, and that was it. It hardly contributed to their decade of success relative to about 10,000 things that have happened around the league.

And what exactly is their 2nd infraction? There is none. Deflategate has been an epic fail of a witch hunt, filled with rumor after made-up rumor.

The Colts player didn't feel a difference as originally reported. Oops, rumor.

The balls were swapped at halftime anyway. Oops, doesn't appear to have helped the Pats.

The refs may not have actually tested the balls properly before the game. Oops, the league might the ones who screwed up. Even if the balls were a couple tenths low, which certainly wouldn't be the result of a conspiracy, it would influence the results later.
 
There is video for all but 90 seconds in a bathroom (which isn't proof of innocence, but the idea that it supports tampering requires you to already assume guilt).

The balls may have only been 1 PSI low, not 2. Which is within the expected range for the weather and possibly unravels the whole incident.

The whole thing may have been set up by prior opponents to try and expose the Pats... the same teams who have, for example, cried over totally legal offensive formations. The same people who keep claiming that the Pats ran a hurry-up formation to skirt the rules, when they huddled every time. Pesky facts.

Numerous other quarterbacks have spoken up to confirm that teams always maximize how the balls are prepped, and that it's a normal practice monitored by the refs. Rodgers over-inflates. Other guys like it softer... but there is a basic process at every game where they get checked by the refs, and it's never been an issue until one team gets "randomly" inspected in the middle of the AFC Championship.

The list goes on... what a joke.

TP man
i also question exactly how accurate those analogue gauges are that the league allegedly uses -
look at this crap

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/22/deflategate-video-how-nfl-officials-check-game-ball-pressure/

you could be looking at the needle at an angle and it might be a PSI or two off. in a ten billion dollar a year business it's not the kind of high-tech solution you would be using if you really care about the ball pressure that much. and that's assuming they actually really do check them every time.
ultimately a shortage of a measly 1 PSI could easily be a result of the weather and/or the refs not looking closely enough at the reading.

also , did anyone hear about neil tyson apologizing for his "analysis" about PSI?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/28/neil-degrasse-tyson-wrong-deflategate_n_6560340.html

Offline kraidstar

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg

this is a study by headsmart labs where they used  a DIGITAL gauge to inflate balls to 12.5 PSI and then replicated the conditions of the game - balls lost as much as 1.9 PSI in a 50-degree room.

d'oh!!!

here's headsmart's full website, to show they're legit
http://www.headsmartlabs.com/

Offline Cman

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg

this is a study by headsmart labs where they used  a DIGITAL gauge to inflate balls to 12.5 PSI and then replicated the conditions of the game - balls lost as much as 1.9 PSI in a 50-degree room.

d'oh!!!

here's headsmart's full website, to show they're legit
http://www.headsmartlabs.com/

Thanks for the link.

In short, I think there is plenty of evidence for why the Patriots balls could have been lower (ie: weather conditions). Absent smoking gun evidence of someone deflating the balls post-inspection, then it will be case closed.
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Offline Vermont Green

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So another angle on this.  Since there is now physical proof that the Pats did nothing more than take balls inflated to 12.5 psig outside where they got cold and wet, may question is why weren't the Colts footballs under inflated too since they were cold and wet.

The only reason could be that they were over inflated to start.  If they were at 13.5 psig to start, they would have been under 12.0 psig at least once they got cold and wet.  So if all of the cold and wet Indy footballs were holding at 12.5 psig or higher, that means that they must have started at 14.0 psig or more.

I think the NFL should do an investigation of the Colts pre-game handling of the footballs.

Offline Cman

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So another angle on this.  Since there is now physical proof that the Pats did nothing more than take balls inflated to 12.5 psig outside where they got cold and wet, may question is why weren't the Colts footballs under inflated too since they were cold and wet.

The only reason could be that they were over inflated to start.  If they were at 13.5 psig to start, they would have been under 12.0 psig at least once they got cold and wet.  So if all of the cold and wet Indy footballs were holding at 12.5 psig or higher, that means that they must have started at 14.0 psig or more.

I think the NFL should do an investigation of the Colts pre-game handling of the footballs.

The simple answer is that we just don't yet know anything about the Colts balls. I think it is likely that the Colts balls were inflated closer to 13.5. It is also possible that they were inflated in a different environment, ie a colder room.

All that said... who cares? The fact that Colts balls had different PSI than Pats balls doesn't imply cheating by Pats, given the multiple variables involved. If the Colts balls weren't under- or over- inflated, it is a non-issue, in my mind.
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Offline mmmmm

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I'm afraid to post this, but I am really interested in your guys' opinion. I am from upstate NY. I am a Giants fan. Have been my whole life. Do you guys believe no one knew, or do you believe it just happened? I don't think this is a big a deal is the media is making it, but SOMEONE did it, right?
Nope. I don't think anyone "did" anything. In other words, I don't think someone took a pin to the balls to deflate them after the officials ok-ed them at the start of the game.

So what do you think happened?
what BB said.
ie, some combination of Patriots having the balls filled to the minimum (12.5psi) and the weather impacting the psi from there.

1.  Why didnt it affect the Colts balls then?

2.  Why could a Colts defender notice, upon touching the ball once, but Brady, the center, the running backs, and everyone on the Pats who noticed had no clue.

It is blatantly obvious the Pats know that they are playing with deflated balls.  Whether it is because someone is deflating them, or whether they inflate their balls with hot air so that the weather affect is more dramatic, they are taking active steps to ensure their balls are deflated.

1. The Colts probably inflated their balls to a different pressure. They didn't have a rub that added to the psi before measurements.

2. The defender has gone on the record saying he didn't notice anything about the ball.

This is a good indicator of how some people will never take facts as facts and will just hate on the Pats regardless. I personally love the hate because it's coming from a place of jealousy.

Even if the defender didn't notice, the equipment manager did, so the point still stands.

I'm utterly indifferent to the Patriots, and I hold the entire NFL (and its greater fanbase) with benign contempt, so don't take this as jealousy when it is, in fact, bemused curiosity.

Did he, though?  Or did he just 'decide to notice'?

Despite the early rumor (Chris Mortensen) that "11 of the 12" footballs were 2 psi below spec, the facts that have leaked out since have indicated that 10 of the balls were actually only 1 psi below spec and that the only football that was "2 psi" below spec was the one that was in the Colt's possession.  Odd, that.

As numerous labs and high school science classes have shown in videos you can find all over the place, the weather alone can more than account for the 1 psi drop in all the other footballs.

The Colt's footballs almost certainly also dropped in pressure, but if they started at 13.5, a 1 psi drop would still leave them above spec.

This is such a contrived issue.
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Offline jambr380

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This sums it up for me.

http://ryan-sawtelle.squarespace.com/web-log/2015/1/23/the-reason-you-hate-the-patriots-is-because-they-win

TP for the article - I like the way it was written (not sure a non-Pats fan would feel the same way.

Btw, this is probably the real reason people hate Brady and the Patriots (sorry I don't know how to embed videos on here).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgi2lY62Hto
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 05:35:49 PM by jambr380 »

Offline fairweatherfan

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^^^^^^^^^^^
Just take the "s" out of "https" and it should embed.



In case it hasn't been posted, fivethirtyeight has a nice breakdown of all the critiques of that "fewer fumbles" analysis that went around. 

This is why I like statistical analysis - when someone uses a flawed method, others jump in to point out the specific issues, and usually immediately correct for them with a more accurate answer.  If only opinions worked that way, we'd've settled this Rondo thing years ago  ;)

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/your-guide-to-deflate-gateballghazi-related-statistical-analyses/

Offline Cman

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This sums it up for me.

http://ryan-sawtelle.squarespace.com/web-log/2015/1/23/the-reason-you-hate-the-patriots-is-because-they-win

TP for the article - I like the way it was written (not sure a non-Pats fan would feel the same way.

Btw, this is probably the real reason people hate Brady and the Patriots (sorry I don't know how to embed videos on here).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgi2lY62Hto

Nah. They hate him because of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGF4l3hcgBg
(fast forward to 1:28 or so)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 03:56:08 PM by Cman »
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Offline D.o.s.

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Quote
You know, I’m getting tired of this whole Deflamegame scoundrel. Everyone is arguing about Deflamegame. What is there to argue about? YOU CANNOT DEFLAME THE FOOTBALL. I don’t need any fancy charts about air treasure to know that! THIS IS NOT ABOUT AIR TREASURE. They deflamed those footballs. And I don’t care if Bill Ballchip did it, or Tom Bradley did it, or the bongboy did it! IT’S CHEETAHING! Whether it’s ten pouches per squid inch or twelve grounds per spare itch, they had an unfair abandage! SUSPENDER THEM ALL.

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