Author Topic: With deflategate dying down, media manufactures new scandal regarding Blount  (Read 18810 times)

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Offline kraidstar

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I'm afraid to post this, but I am really interested in your guys' opinion. I am from upstate NY. I am a Giants fan. Have been my whole life. Do you guys believe no one knew, or do you believe it just happened? I don't think this is a big a deal is the media is making it, but SOMEONE did it, right?

I'm not a Patriots fan, or a fan of any other NFL team either, but the reason this has seemed plausible to me from the beginning is that I think teams and QBs routinely tamper with their footballs.  There's certainly enough anecdotal and video evidence of teams doing it.  Sometimes it may not violate league standards but I think often it does.

That's why one of the odder subplots to me is Patriots fans simultaneously claiming that lots of other teams do it, but their team couldn't possibly have done it. It's not the only possible explanation but it's certainly a plausible one.

i think the issue here is that, in the mind of any rational sports fan, slightly deflated balls shouldn't be a big deal.
and in this case, there are lots of alternate explanations as to why the balls could be a little low. unless they either have the tampering on tape or have a confession from a ball boy, then it's highly unlikely they prove any wrongdoing.
so why make a huge deal out of this and drag it out for so long?
give out a $25,000 fine as stated in league rules or just let it drop.
in dragging this thing out the league has effectively trashed the pats' reputation in a pointless witch hunt with the biggest game of the year looming.
and it's not because of "integrity of the game," it's because of political bickering and because goodell is desperate to redeem himself after the ray rice fiasco.

Offline Smitty77

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Brady is a cheater that simply canNOT win fairly withOUT gaining unfair advantages!!

http://www.wnd.com/2015/01/patriots-nearly-fumble-proof-after-brady-rule-change/?cat_orig=diversions

I am sure I just made a LOT of friends on this board:-)))))))))))))))))

Smitty77



Yes, not fumbling the ball to the opposition is very unfair. How are they going to win without getting the ball? :P

By the way, this article (which is written by a numerically illiterate snake-oil salesman) has already been posted. If you can't detect the hogwash in it, I recommend you take a college-level Stats class.

Next in this series: The Spurs haven't won less than 50 games since 98-99, this proves they are CHEATZORZ!

So, Koz, you truly believe that the Patriots have NEVER cheated???  I am not sure what type of college course to recommend to you IF you believe they are pure.

Smitty77

Offline D.o.s.

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I'm afraid to post this, but I am really interested in your guys' opinion. I am from upstate NY. I am a Giants fan. Have been my whole life. Do you guys believe no one knew, or do you believe it just happened? I don't think this is a big a deal is the media is making it, but SOMEONE did it, right?
Nope. I don't think anyone "did" anything. In other words, I don't think someone took a pin to the balls to deflate them after the officials ok-ed them at the start of the game.

So what do you think happened?
what BB said.
ie, some combination of Patriots having the balls filled to the minimum (12.5psi) and the weather impacting the psi from there.

1.  Why didnt it affect the Colts balls then?

2.  Why could a Colts defender notice, upon touching the ball once, but Brady, the center, the running backs, and everyone on the Pats who noticed had no clue.

It is blatantly obvious the Pats know that they are playing with deflated balls.  Whether it is because someone is deflating them, or whether they inflate their balls with hot air so that the weather affect is more dramatic, they are taking active steps to ensure their balls are deflated.

1. The Colts probably inflated their balls to a different pressure. They didn't have a rub that added to the psi before measurements.

2. The defender has gone on the record saying he didn't notice anything about the ball.

This is a good indicator of how some people will never take facts as facts and will just hate on the Pats regardless. I personally love the hate because it's coming from a place of jealousy.

Even if the defender didn't notice, the equipment manager did, so the point still stands.

I'm utterly indifferent to the Patriots, and I hold the entire NFL (and its greater fanbase) with benign contempt, so don't take this as jealousy when it is, in fact, bemused curiosity.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Offline Smitty77

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I'm afraid to post this, but I am really interested in your guys' opinion. I am from upstate NY. I am a Giants fan. Have been my whole life. Do you guys believe no one knew, or do you believe it just happened? I don't think this is a big a deal is the media is making it, but SOMEONE did it, right?
Nope. I don't think anyone "did" anything. In other words, I don't think someone took a pin to the balls to deflate them after the officials ok-ed them at the start of the game.

You are a Patriots' fan, correct??:-))

Offline Smitty77

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I'm afraid to post this, but I am really interested in your guys' opinion. I am from upstate NY. I am a Giants fan. Have been my whole life. Do you guys believe no one knew, or do you believe it just happened? I don't think this is a big a deal is the media is making it, but SOMEONE did it, right?
Nope. I don't think anyone "did" anything. In other words, I don't think someone took a pin to the balls to deflate them after the officials ok-ed them at the start of the game.

So what do you think happened?
what BB said.
ie, some combination of Patriots having the balls filled to the minimum (12.5psi) and the weather impacting the psi from there.

But, were not ONLY the Pats' balls under-inflated??  I thought EACH team controlled their own balls, no??

Offline Smitty77

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I'm afraid to post this, but I am really interested in your guys' opinion. I am from upstate NY. I am a Giants fan. Have been my whole life. Do you guys believe no one knew, or do you believe it just happened? I don't think this is a big a deal is the media is making it, but SOMEONE did it, right?

I'm not a Patriots fan, or a fan of any other NFL team either, but the reason this has seemed plausible to me from the beginning is that I think teams and QBs routinely tamper with their footballs.  There's certainly enough anecdotal and video evidence of teams doing it.  Sometimes it may not violate league standards but I think often it does.

That's why one of the odder subplots to me is Patriots fans simultaneously claiming that lots of other teams do it, but their team couldn't possibly have done it. It's not the only possible explanation but it's certainly a plausible one.

i think the issue here is that, in the mind of any rational sports fan, slightly deflated balls shouldn't be a big deal.
and in this case, there are lots of alternate explanations as to why the balls could be a little low. unless they either have the tampering on tape or have a confession from a ball boy, then it's highly unlikely they prove any wrongdoing.
so why make a huge deal out of this and drag it out for so long?
give out a $25,000 fine as stated in league rules or just let it drop.
in dragging this thing out the league has effectively trashed the pats' reputation in a pointless witch hunt with the biggest game of the year looming.
and it's not because of "integrity of the game," it's because of political bickering and because goodell is desperate to redeem himself after the ray rice fiasco.

The reason this IS such a BIG deal is because the Patriots have a TRACK RECORD proving that they believe in winning at all COSTS!!!  History means something.

Smitty77

Offline footey

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I'm afraid to post this, but I am really interested in your guys' opinion. I am from upstate NY. I am a Giants fan. Have been my whole life. Do you guys believe no one knew, or do you believe it just happened? I don't think this is a big a deal is the media is making it, but SOMEONE did it, right?
Nope. I don't think anyone "did" anything. In other words, I don't think someone took a pin to the balls to deflate them after the officials ok-ed them at the start of the game.

So what do you think happened?
what BB said.
ie, some combination of Patriots having the balls filled to the minimum (12.5psi) and the weather impacting the psi from there.

1.  Why didnt it affect the Colts balls then?

2.  Why could a Colts defender notice, upon touching the ball once, but Brady, the center, the running backs, and everyone on the Pats who noticed had no clue.

It is blatantly obvious the Pats know that they are playing with deflated balls.  Whether it is because someone is deflating them, or whether they inflate their balls with hot air so that the weather affect is more dramatic, they are taking active steps to ensure their balls are deflated.

1. The Colts probably inflated their balls to a different pressure. They didn't have a rub that added to the psi before measurements.

2. The defender has gone on the record saying he didn't notice anything about the ball.

This is a good indicator of how some people will never take facts as facts and will just hate on the Pats regardless. I personally love the hate because it's coming from a place of jealousy.

Even if the defender didn't notice, the equipment manager did, so the point still stands.

I'm utterly indifferent to the Patriots, and I hold the entire NFL (and its greater fanbase) with benign contempt, so don't take this as jealousy when it is, in fact, bemused curiosity.

You mean the equipment manager on the team that before the game started, notified the officials to check the Pats' footballs?  That guy? Nah, why would he have an agenda.  Certainly no need for him to explain why the only ball reportedly 2 PSI below the legal minimum (the other 11 only one PSI), was in his exclusive custody for, I would guess, more than 90 seconds?  And we're talking one ball here, not 12.

Offline Cman

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I'm afraid to post this, but I am really interested in your guys' opinion. I am from upstate NY. I am a Giants fan. Have been my whole life. Do you guys believe no one knew, or do you believe it just happened? I don't think this is a big a deal is the media is making it, but SOMEONE did it, right?
Nope. I don't think anyone "did" anything. In other words, I don't think someone took a pin to the balls to deflate them after the officials ok-ed them at the start of the game.

You are a Patriots' fan, correct??:-))

You bet! I realize that tints my view of things, but... I was asked my opinion and I provided it. I see no reason to NOT believe BB when he says he didn't do anything and to the best of his knowledge no one on the team or staff did anything.  Its not as if he has a history of lying (eg, with Spygate, BB readily acknowledged the taping, but argued it was allowable under his interpretation of the rules).


So, Koz, you truly believe that the Patriots have NEVER cheated???  I am not sure what type of college course to recommend to you IF you believe they are pure.

Smitty77

Pretty hard to argue cheating. Was Spygate an example of cheating? BB wasn't trying to hide anything. He filmed the Jets sidelines, never denied it. He argued it was allowable under current rules.
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Offline Cman

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The reason this IS such a BIG deal is because the Patriots have a TRACK RECORD proving that they believe in winning at all COSTS!!!  History means something.

Smitty77

I'm serious when I ask this question:

What is the track record?

I hear stuff like this all the time in the media (so it must be true! kidding), but no one says what this "track record" is. I guess there's Spygate, but what was the cheating in Spygate, exactly?
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Offline footey

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I'm afraid to post this, but I am really interested in your guys' opinion. I am from upstate NY. I am a Giants fan. Have been my whole life. Do you guys believe no one knew, or do you believe it just happened? I don't think this is a big a deal is the media is making it, but SOMEONE did it, right?

I'm not a Patriots fan, or a fan of any other NFL team either, but the reason this has seemed plausible to me from the beginning is that I think teams and QBs routinely tamper with their footballs.  There's certainly enough anecdotal and video evidence of teams doing it.  Sometimes it may not violate league standards but I think often it does.

That's why one of the odder subplots to me is Patriots fans simultaneously claiming that lots of other teams do it, but their team couldn't possibly have done it. It's not the only possible explanation but it's certainly a plausible one.

i think the issue here is that, in the mind of any rational sports fan, slightly deflated balls shouldn't be a big deal.
and in this case, there are lots of alternate explanations as to why the balls could be a little low. unless they either have the tampering on tape or have a confession from a ball boy, then it's highly unlikely they prove any wrongdoing.
so why make a huge deal out of this and drag it out for so long?
give out a $25,000 fine as stated in league rules or just let it drop.
in dragging this thing out the league has effectively trashed the pats' reputation in a pointless witch hunt with the biggest game of the year looming.
and it's not because of "integrity of the game," it's because of political bickering and because goodell is desperate to redeem himself after the ray rice fiasco.

The reason this IS such a BIG deal is because the Patriots have a TRACK RECORD proving that they believe in winning at all COSTS!!!  History means something.

Smitty77

No more than any other team in the NFL.  And frankly, your statement is absurd on its face. 

Offline fairweatherfan

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I'm afraid to post this, but I am really interested in your guys' opinion. I am from upstate NY. I am a Giants fan. Have been my whole life. Do you guys believe no one knew, or do you believe it just happened? I don't think this is a big a deal is the media is making it, but SOMEONE did it, right?

I'm not a Patriots fan, or a fan of any other NFL team either, but the reason this has seemed plausible to me from the beginning is that I think teams and QBs routinely tamper with their footballs.  There's certainly enough anecdotal and video evidence of teams doing it.  Sometimes it may not violate league standards but I think often it does.

That's why one of the odder subplots to me is Patriots fans simultaneously claiming that lots of other teams do it, but their team couldn't possibly have done it.  It's not the only possible explanation but it's certainly a plausible one.
I don't think anyone who has followed the story (or the NFL) closely claims that QBs routinely tamper with balls after they've been approved by officials on game day. There certainly isn't any video evidence to speak of. The closest you'll get is the video of ball boys heating up footballs on the sideline.

Of course, all QBs "tamper" with the balls during the course of the week, which was the whole point of the rule that got passed in 2007. Up to then, you'd get brand new balls out of the box -- and the problem with these were that the wax coating and the brand new pigskin made them hard to grip. So rubbing off the coating, and wearing down the skin is what's happening in this process.

If we'll be discussing "plausibility", it's absolutely insane for anyone to consider tampering after inspection. It's little reward, high risk type of affair.

Where's the high risk? My understanding is that refs rarely if ever recheck footballs after inspection, so the risk of getting caught is low, and the stated penalty is something like $25k, so the consequences of getting caught are also low.  Negative attention like we're seeing here isn't something a team would reasonably expect for such a small infraction, and isn't really a tangible punishment anyway.  Doesn't seem remotely high risk to me.

Offline footey

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I'm afraid to post this, but I am really interested in your guys' opinion. I am from upstate NY. I am a Giants fan. Have been my whole life. Do you guys believe no one knew, or do you believe it just happened? I don't think this is a big a deal is the media is making it, but SOMEONE did it, right?
Nope. I don't think anyone "did" anything. In other words, I don't think someone took a pin to the balls to deflate them after the officials ok-ed them at the start of the game.

You are a Patriots' fan, correct??:-))

You bet! I realize that tints my view of things, but... I was asked my opinion and I provided it. I see no reason to NOT believe BB when he says he didn't do anything and to the best of his knowledge no one on the team or staff did anything.  Its not as if he has a history of lying (eg, with Spygate, BB readily acknowledged the taping, but argued it was allowable under his interpretation of the rules).


So, Koz, you truly believe that the Patriots have NEVER cheated???  I am not sure what type of college course to recommend to you IF you believe they are pure.

Smitty77

Pretty hard to argue cheating. Was Spygate an example of cheating? BB wasn't trying to hide anything. He filmed the Jets sidelines, never denied it. He argued it was allowable under current rules.

Belichick interpreted to his advantage ambiguous language regarding prohibition of use of taping "in the game", which he stated he thought just meant he could not use it for the game in which it was being taped, but did not prohibit him from using it for future games.  It was an argument not without merit.  Apparently most other teams until just before spygate did the same thing.  For people to use Spygate as example of how much the Patriots cheated, try to understand the facts of what actually was the rule, what Belichick's position was, how they never denied taping the games.  The Pats pushed the envelope on that particular rule, the NFL slammed them hard (way too hard, in my opinion), and the reality is that the taint will never go away in the mainstream media, fans loyal to other teams, and casual observers of these "scandals", who, in my view, don't put much effort to look at all the facts and put this in proper perspective.

That leaves us Pats fans today feeling much like Oakland Raider fans probably felt during their heyday: It brings us closer together, frankly. 

Offline Cman

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Belichick interpreted to his advantage ambiguous language regarding prohibition of use of taping "in the game", which he stated he thought just meant he could not use it for the game in which it was being taped, but did not prohibit him from using it for future games.  It was an argument not without merit.  Apparently most other teams until just before spygate did the same thing.  For people to use Spygate as example of how much the Patriots cheated, try to understand the facts of what actually was the rule, what Belichick's position was, how they never denied taping the games.  The Pats pushed the envelope on that particular rule, the NFL slammed them hard (way too hard, in my opinion), and the reality is that the taint will never go away in the mainstream media, fans loyal to other teams, and casual observers of these "scandals", who, in my view, don't put much effort to look at all the facts and put this in proper perspective.

Agreed. So, we have one scandal, Spygate. How's that a history of cheating? Again, the media (or at least some of the media - Skip Bayless, I'm looking at you) like to bring this up again and again. But just saying it doesn't make it so. What is the history?
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Online byennie

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The bottom line is that the Patriots have *some* history. But so does the entire league. This is like calling the Red Sox cheaters because they probably had some players use PEDs. Every team has problems here and there. The league is full of teams who have won games with PED users, injured opponents through headhunting, circumvented the salary cap, and everything in-between. Not to mention the off-field crimes, albeit those don't have any on-field "cheater" advantage.

Spygate was real - but it has been exaggerated by 100x over the years. Hardly anyone can recall the details outside of New England. If you polled, I bet 90% of people think they got caught taping the Rams before the Super Bowl. Didn't happen and was a totally made up rumor. Did other teams do it? So much so that there was a league-wide memo. The Pats got caught, paid a heavy price, and that was it. It hardly contributed to their decade of success relative to about 10,000 things that have happened around the league.

And what exactly is their 2nd infraction? There is none. Deflategate has been an epic fail of a witch hunt, filled with rumor after made-up rumor.

The Colts player didn't feel a difference as originally reported. Oops, rumor.

The balls were swapped at halftime anyway. Oops, doesn't appear to have helped the Pats.

The refs may not have actually tested the balls properly before the game. Oops, the league might the ones who screwed up. Even if the balls were a couple tenths low, which certainly wouldn't be the result of a conspiracy, it would influence the results later.
 
There is video for all but 90 seconds in a bathroom (which isn't proof of innocence, but the idea that it supports tampering requires you to already assume guilt).

The balls may have only been 1 PSI low, not 2. Which is within the expected range for the weather and possibly unravels the whole incident.

The whole thing may have been set up by prior opponents to try and expose the Pats... the same teams who have, for example, cried over totally legal offensive formations. The same people who keep claiming that the Pats ran a hurry-up formation to skirt the rules, when they huddled every time. Pesky facts.

Numerous other quarterbacks have spoken up to confirm that teams always maximize how the balls are prepped, and that it's a normal practice monitored by the refs. Rodgers over-inflates. Other guys like it softer... but there is a basic process at every game where they get checked by the refs, and it's never been an issue until one team gets "randomly" inspected in the middle of the AFC Championship.

The list goes on... what a joke.

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Belichick interpreted to his advantage ambiguous language regarding prohibition of use of taping "in the game", which he stated he thought just meant he could not use it for the game in which it was being taped, but did not prohibit him from using it for future games.  It was an argument not without merit.  Apparently most other teams until just before spygate did the same thing.  For people to use Spygate as example of how much the Patriots cheated, try to understand the facts of what actually was the rule, what Belichick's position was, how they never denied taping the games.  The Pats pushed the envelope on that particular rule, the NFL slammed them hard (way too hard, in my opinion), and the reality is that the taint will never go away in the mainstream media, fans loyal to other teams, and casual observers of these "scandals", who, in my view, don't put much effort to look at all the facts and put this in proper perspective.

That leaves us Pats fans today feeling much like Oakland Raider fans probably felt during their heyday: It brings us closer together, frankly.

This, this and this. I'd love to force every Spygate poster to read and comprehend this.