Author Topic: Celtics already have the talent equivalent of 8 top 10 picks on their roster  (Read 7141 times)

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Offline Alleyoopster

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Below is listed most of players on the Celtics roster. 
Judging only their talent level (not age or any other variable).  Where would each of the following players fit if the draft were held today.  Remember we are comparing relative talent only. 
The numbers indicate the pick value their talent might hold.
 
Brandon Bass    (6-10)
Avery Bradley    (4-10)
Jay Crowder       (12 -15)
Kelly Olynyk        (4-10)
Phil Pressey        (15-20)
Tayshaun Prince   (7-10)
Marcus Smart       (5-7)
Jared Sullinger      (4-7)
Marcus Thornton    (7-11)
Evan Turner           (6-10)
Gerald Wallace    (18-20)
James Young       (10-15)
Tyler Zeller         (5-8)
Sorry for not making my post clearer.   

In essence I was trying to compare the ability/talent level of the players on the Celtics current roster to the ability/talent level of a comparable player just getting drafted this year.  I'm not referring to any particular player's potential or what they've done in the past.  This is strictly a talent vs. talent comparison for this year only.  Also,  I'm only inserting one Celtic player at a time in this mock draft comparison.  Thus, if Marcus Thorton is considered equivalent to a 8 position.  Then, when I compare Evan Turner to the 2014 draft list, Thorton comes off the list. 

For instance, in the 2014 draft order looks like this.
Andrew Wiggins,Jabari Parker,Joel Embiid, Aaron Gordon, Dante Exum, Marcus Smart, Julius Randle, Nik Stauskas, Noah Vonleh, Elfrid Payton, Doug McDermott, Dario Saric, Zach LaVine, T.J. Warren, Adreian Payne, Jusuf Nurkic, James Young, Gary Harris, Bruno Cabocio, Mitch McGary, Jordan Adams, Rodney Hood, Shabazz Napier, Clint Capela, P.J. Hairston, Bogdan Bogdanovic, C.J. Wilcox, Josh Huestis, Kyle Anderson

Thus, Zeller's talent equivalent slot might fit between 5-8 in comparison to what those players in those positions have done this year.

Offline Celtics18

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Interesting.

Here goes:

1. Sullinger
2. Olynyk
3.  Zeller
4.  Parker
5. Wiggins
6.  Turner
7.  Payton
8. Nurkic
9.  Bass
10. Mirotic
11.  Bradley
12. McDaniels
13.  Smart
14. Prince
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
1. Sullinger
2. Olynyk

The first two absolutely suck on defense.  Some of these other guys do not.   

Quote
In essence I was trying to compare the ability/talent level of the players on the Celtics current roster to the ability/talent level of a comparable player just getting drafted this year

I think you have a rosy hope that our guys are equal to a top ten pick in talent.  The actual areas where these guys were picked indicates otherwise.  Most of these guys like AB, KO and Sully were not even top ten picks in their own draft and each has flaws that limit their potential.  AB is a poor ball handler and shooter, Sully and Oly are unathletic and slow.

Draft pick's value include potential.   Your comparing actual player ability to potential.   Most of our guys aside from Smart and Young have limited finite potential.   

Given that draft picks are unknown and often a gamble and are rated by potential as well, I think this points out a fallacy in your whole process.

Offline celticmania

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Pretty much everyone who has been in the NBA a few years is a better player than most players in college. A 30 year old Brandon Bass should be better than a 19 year old Kevon Looney who has never touched an NBA floor. Putting what draft position current NBA vets would be is pointless when most of them are 27 years+. Pretty much every veteran player in the  NBA has "talent equivalent if a top 10 pick." What makes someone a top 10 pick is potential which surpasses every player on this team.

Offline konkmv

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...... the celtics have no top 3 draft value picks... that is the difference

Offline PhoSita

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Yeah, your talent equivalent of two top-10 picks is probably more accurate.

We love Smart, yet despite all the injuries in his rookie class, he doesn't even crack the top 10 on nba.com's rookie ladder.

I don't put much stock at all in the NBA.com Rookie Ladder.  Seems like a pretty biased list to me, generally speaking.

Smart has made the most net positive impact for his team when he's been on the floor compared to the other guards in this draft class.  Payton is the only one who's close to him, but Payton's an awful shooter, and that hurts him.  Lavine, Napier, and Exum are inefficient and don't contribute in many areas aside from points.

The only noticeably better players have been Wiggins, Mirotic, and Parker.  Mirotic has multiple years of professional ball under his belt which I think gives him a development advantage.  Wiggins has been given a green light to do whatever he wants 40 minutes a game.

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Offline TheFlex

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Yeah, your talent equivalent of two top-10 picks is probably more accurate.

We love Smart, yet despite all the injuries in his rookie class, he doesn't even crack the top 10 on nba.com's rookie ladder.

I don't put much stock at all in the NBA.com Rookie Ladder.  Seems like a pretty biased list to me, generally speaking.

Smart has made the most net positive impact for his team when he's been on the floor compared to the other guards in this draft class.  Payton is the only one who's close to him, but Payton's an awful shooter, and that hurts him.  Lavine, Napier, and Exum are inefficient and don't contribute in many areas aside from points.

The only noticeably better players have been Wiggins, Mirotic, and Parker.  Mirotic has multiple years of professional ball under his belt which I think gives him a development advantage.  Wiggins has been given a green light to do whatever he wants 40 minutes a game.

I have missed you.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague/

Offline Mass_1081

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  Sorry, but this makes no sense if it's meant either way. The C's were the only team that did not have one player on Espn's top 100 players. While I could argue Sully is a top 100 player, it does show how bad this team is lacking in talent. Not one Celtic would start on the Warriors. It simple, first step in the rebuild is to find a star or someone with star potential.

Offline Mass_1081

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Below is listed most of players on the Celtics roster. 
Judging only their talent level (not age or any other variable).  Where would each of the following players fit if the draft were held today.  Remember we are comparing relative talent only. 
The numbers indicate the pick value their talent might hold.
 
Brandon Bass    (6-10)
Avery Bradley    (4-10)
Jay Crowder       (12 -15)
Kelly Olynyk        (4-10)
Phil Pressey        (15-20)
Tayshaun Prince   (7-10)
Marcus Smart       (5-7)
Jared Sullinger      (4-7)
Marcus Thornton    (7-11)
Evan Turner           (6-10)
Gerald Wallace    (18-20)
James Young       (10-15)
Tyler Zeller         (5-8)
Sorry for not making my post clearer.   

In essence I was trying to compare the ability/talent level of the players on the Celtics current roster to the ability/talent level of a comparable player just getting drafted this year.  I'm not referring to any particular player's potential or what they've done in the past.  This is strictly a talent vs. talent comparison for this year only.  Also,  I'm only inserting one Celtic player at a time in this mock draft comparison.  Thus, if Marcus Thorton is considered equivalent to a 8 position.  Then, when I compare Evan Turner to the 2014 draft list, Thorton comes off the list. 

For instance, in the 2014 draft order looks like this.
Andrew Wiggins,Jabari Parker,Joel Embiid, Aaron Gordon, Dante Exum, Marcus Smart, Julius Randle, Nik Stauskas, Noah Vonleh, Elfrid Payton, Doug McDermott, Dario Saric, Zach LaVine, T.J. Warren, Adreian Payne, Jusuf Nurkic, James Young, Gary Harris, Bruno Cabocio, Mitch McGary, Jordan Adams, Rodney Hood, Shabazz Napier, Clint Capela, P.J. Hairston, Bogdan Bogdanovic, C.J. Wilcox, Josh Huestis, Kyle Anderson

Thus, Zeller's talent equivalent slot might fit between 5-8 in comparison to what those players in those positions have done this year.


Why compare college players to pro?

Offline littleteapot

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If Thornton, Prince and Bass were talented enough to be drafted in the top 10, why weren't they?
How do you feel about websites where people with similar interests share their opinions?
I'm forum!

Offline Eja117

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If we accept the logic of the OP, that's fine, but then the average NBA team has like 10 top 2 picks.

Offline CowensCabbie

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Below is listed most of players on the Celtics roster. 
Judging only their talent level (not age or any other variable).  Where would each of the following players fit if the draft were held today.  Remember we are comparing relative talent only. 
The numbers indicate the pick value their talent might hold.
 
Brandon Bass    (6-10)
Avery Bradley    (4-10)
Jay Crowder       (12 -15)
Kelly Olynyk        (4-10)
Phil Pressey        (15-20)
Tayshaun Prince   (7-10)
Marcus Smart       (5-7)
Jared Sullinger      (4-7)
Marcus Thornton    (7-11)
Evan Turner           (6-10)
Gerald Wallace    (18-20)
James Young       (10-15)
Tyler Zeller         (5-8)
Sorry for not making my post clearer.   

In essence I was trying to compare the ability/talent level of the players on the Celtics current roster to the ability/talent level of a comparable player just getting drafted this year.  I'm not referring to any particular player's potential or what they've done in the past.  This is strictly a talent vs. talent comparison for this year only.  Also,  I'm only inserting one Celtic player at a time in this mock draft comparison.  Thus, if Marcus Thorton is considered equivalent to a 8 position.  Then, when I compare Evan Turner to the 2014 draft list, Thorton comes off the list. 

For instance, in the 2014 draft order looks like this.
Andrew Wiggins,Jabari Parker,Joel Embiid, Aaron Gordon, Dante Exum, Marcus Smart, Julius Randle, Nik Stauskas, Noah Vonleh, Elfrid Payton, Doug McDermott, Dario Saric, Zach LaVine, T.J. Warren, Adreian Payne, Jusuf Nurkic, James Young, Gary Harris, Bruno Cabocio, Mitch McGary, Jordan Adams, Rodney Hood, Shabazz Napier, Clint Capela, P.J. Hairston, Bogdan Bogdanovic, C.J. Wilcox, Josh Huestis, Kyle Anderson

Thus, Zeller's talent equivalent slot might fit between 5-8 in comparison to what those players in those positions have done this year.

If Gerald Wallace and Phil Pressey both make the top 20 at their current level of play, how many current NBA players wouldn't be considered top 20 draftees?

Offline CowensCabbie

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Below is listed most of players on the Celtics roster. 
Judging only their talent level (not age or any other variable).  Where would each of the following players fit if the draft were held today.  Remember we are comparing relative talent only. 
The numbers indicate the pick value their talent might hold.
 
Brandon Bass    (6-10)
Avery Bradley    (4-10)
Jay Crowder       (12 -15)
Kelly Olynyk        (4-10)
Phil Pressey        (15-20)
Tayshaun Prince   (7-10)
Marcus Smart       (5-7)
Jared Sullinger      (4-7)
Marcus Thornton    (7-11)
Evan Turner           (6-10)
Gerald Wallace    (18-20)
James Young       (10-15)
Tyler Zeller         (5-8)
Sorry for not making my post clearer.   

In essence I was trying to compare the ability/talent level of the players on the Celtics current roster to the ability/talent level of a comparable player just getting drafted this year.  I'm not referring to any particular player's potential or what they've done in the past.  This is strictly a talent vs. talent comparison for this year only.  Also,  I'm only inserting one Celtic player at a time in this mock draft comparison.  Thus, if Marcus Thorton is considered equivalent to a 8 position.  Then, when I compare Evan Turner to the 2014 draft list, Thorton comes off the list. 

For instance, in the 2014 draft order looks like this.
Andrew Wiggins,Jabari Parker,Joel Embiid, Aaron Gordon, Dante Exum, Marcus Smart, Julius Randle, Nik Stauskas, Noah Vonleh, Elfrid Payton, Doug McDermott, Dario Saric, Zach LaVine, T.J. Warren, Adreian Payne, Jusuf Nurkic, James Young, Gary Harris, Bruno Cabocio, Mitch McGary, Jordan Adams, Rodney Hood, Shabazz Napier, Clint Capela, P.J. Hairston, Bogdan Bogdanovic, C.J. Wilcox, Josh Huestis, Kyle Anderson

Thus, Zeller's talent equivalent slot might fit between 5-8 in comparison to what those players in those positions have done this year.

If Phil Pressey and Gerald Wallace are top 20 draftees in this hypothetical draft, how many current NBA players wouldn't make the top 20?  What does the bottom of that draft look like?

Offline Fan from VT

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Is the argument that if our players were placed back in a random draft that 8 of them would go in the top ten?

Maybe, but I doubt it.

Think about it this way:

How many teams, if they possessed the 10th pick in a draft, would trade that pick for one of our players? Maybe Smart, possibly olynyk, possibly sullinger. That's about it. And that's just the 10th pick, not "top ten pick" in general.



Additionally, even if the premise were true, it's a flawed premise. You can't just do this for one team and not all the other teams. Every NBA team is composed of years of players who, by definition, possess qualities to stick in the NBA; they are a more elite pre-selected draft pool than college players. If you want to see how relatively good your team is, you'd have to throw those players AND every player from every other roster back into the draft and see what comes out. Wouldn't be that pretty for the C's.