Author Topic: Tyler Zeller  (Read 6750 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2015, 01:15:30 AM »

Offline PickNRoll

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1691
  • Tommy Points: 199
Sullinger has been operating around the rim far more often than he did at the beginning of the season, particularly when he started playing with Zeller. Zeller so often occupied the middle of the paint which forced Sullinger outside to the three-point line. When playing with Olynyk or Bass (haven't checked the stats on this, just going by naked eye), Sullinger seems to dominate the paint more. I'd love it if Zeller was encouraged to shoot from the FT line extended. I think a combination of Sully and Zeller with Zeller playing high and Sullinger down on the blocks could be really effective offensively.

What's wrong with having two guys who can post up on the court at the same time?  I get what you're saying, and I'm sure that they could be interchangeable out there if need be, but I'm old fashioned, lol. ;D  Play inside. 

Also, the combined passing ability of Sullinger and Zeller together on the court would surely help us out offensively, no?  Just me?  Okay, lol. ;D
I agree with what you're saying, but Sully and Zeller are sort of average passers.  We're not talking about Bird and Walton here.

Sully has shown flashes to good to very good passing skills and Zeller is a pretty good passer for his size as well. The problem is not passing. It's rare that two big men can sit on opposite blocks without compromising floor spacing. At the very least one should ideally operate as a face-up big from the free throw line while the other roams the paint 3-6 feet in. It's why Dwight Howard seems to have much more space playing with Motiejunas, why Gasol and Noah haven't worked as well as one would've hoped this year (while each have the offensive skills to play as the face-up big, neither excel as much as when in the painted area), and why the Randolph-M. Gasol combination has seemed to improved despite Randolph's aging as Gasol has continued to add to his outside game.
I don't know if I buy into these magic formulas.  Sure, it's interesting when one of your bigs can shoot from 18, but it's not necessary.  A solid backcourt can provide all the spacing you need.  Put 2 good players together in the front court and they'll figure it out. Better to cream your opponent under the hoop.

Mchale-Parish
Kareem-Mychal Thompson/AC Green/Rambis/whoever
Bynum-Gasol
Duncan-Tiago Splitter
Shaq - Horace Grant
Mutombo - Tyrone Hill

Spacing is new age.


Re: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2015, 01:19:30 AM »

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
Sullinger has been operating around the rim far more often than he did at the beginning of the season, particularly when he started playing with Zeller. Zeller so often occupied the middle of the paint which forced Sullinger outside to the three-point line. When playing with Olynyk or Bass (haven't checked the stats on this, just going by naked eye), Sullinger seems to dominate the paint more. I'd love it if Zeller was encouraged to shoot from the FT line extended. I think a combination of Sully and Zeller with Zeller playing high and Sullinger down on the blocks could be really effective offensively.

What's wrong with having two guys who can post up on the court at the same time?  I get what you're saying, and I'm sure that they could be interchangeable out there if need be, but I'm old fashioned, lol. ;D  Play inside. 

Also, the combined passing ability of Sullinger and Zeller together on the court would surely help us out offensively, no?  Just me?  Okay, lol. ;D
I agree with what you're saying, but Sully and Zeller are sort of average passers.  We're not talking about Bird and Walton here.

Sully has shown flashes to good to very good passing skills and Zeller is a pretty good passer for his size as well. The problem is not passing. It's rare that two big men can sit on opposite blocks without compromising floor spacing. At the very least one should ideally operate as a face-up big from the free throw line while the other roams the paint 3-6 feet in. It's why Dwight Howard seems to have much more space playing with Motiejunas, why Gasol and Noah haven't worked as well as one would've hoped this year (while each have the offensive skills to play as the face-up big, neither excel as much as when in the painted area), and why the Randolph-M. Gasol combination has seemed to improved despite Randolph's aging as Gasol has continued to add to his outside game.

Yeah, I was just going to say that about Sullinger.  As for spacing, why not have two guys inside?  We don't have a lot of shooting on our team as of now, anyway, and if one of the big men misses at least the other should be able to contest and possibly get the offensive rebound.  The reason why it hasn't worked for the Bulls is that Noah is a terrible offensive player, both away from, and near the basket, and at this stage of his career, Pau is more likely to settle for a midrange jumper than play in the post, although he has been on the block more this year than I expected, but only because of the number of minutes he's played for the last several years, never mind his age. 

I'm not saying that Sully and Zeller would be world-beaters out there, but I would just like to see how it works out if Stevens ever tries it out.  Zeller isn't Pau or Big Al, but he does have some excellent moves, and is fundamentally sound.  I mean, how many 7 footers actively use their left hands on the block, and not only for put-backs?  I can only think of the Gasol brothers and Hibbert, so it's pretty rare these days.  If only Zeller was a shot blocker.  Sigh.  I don't see why he couldn't become one, given his physical tools.

Re: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2015, 01:25:10 AM »

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
Sullinger has been operating around the rim far more often than he did at the beginning of the season, particularly when he started playing with Zeller. Zeller so often occupied the middle of the paint which forced Sullinger outside to the three-point line. When playing with Olynyk or Bass (haven't checked the stats on this, just going by naked eye), Sullinger seems to dominate the paint more. I'd love it if Zeller was encouraged to shoot from the FT line extended. I think a combination of Sully and Zeller with Zeller playing high and Sullinger down on the blocks could be really effective offensively.

What's wrong with having two guys who can post up on the court at the same time?  I get what you're saying, and I'm sure that they could be interchangeable out there if need be, but I'm old fashioned, lol. ;D  Play inside. 

Also, the combined passing ability of Sullinger and Zeller together on the court would surely help us out offensively, no?  Just me?  Okay, lol. ;D
I agree with what you're saying, but Sully and Zeller are sort of average passers.  We're not talking about Bird and Walton here.

Sully has shown flashes to good to very good passing skills and Zeller is a pretty good passer for his size as well. The problem is not passing. It's rare that two big men can sit on opposite blocks without compromising floor spacing. At the very least one should ideally operate as a face-up big from the free throw line while the other roams the paint 3-6 feet in. It's why Dwight Howard seems to have much more space playing with Motiejunas, why Gasol and Noah haven't worked as well as one would've hoped this year (while each have the offensive skills to play as the face-up big, neither excel as much as when in the painted area), and why the Randolph-M. Gasol combination has seemed to improved despite Randolph's aging as Gasol has continued to add to his outside game.
I don't know if I buy into these magic formulas.  Sure, it's interesting when one of your bigs can shoot from 18, but it's not necessary.  A solid backcourt can provide all the spacing you need.  Put 2 good players together in the front court and they'll figure it out. Better to cream your opponent under the hoop.

Mchale-Parish
Kareem-Mychal Thompson/AC Green/Rambis/whoever
Bynum-Gasol
Duncan-Tiago Splitter
Shaq - Horace Grant
Mutombo - Tyrone Hill

Spacing is new age.

Yeah, I agree.  If you have that as a weapon, great, but only use it if you absolutely have to, otherwise play inside.  One of the things that made the McHale and Parish work so well was that they both could shoot.  Now, Mchale obviously had more range, but the point is is that they always played with their backs to the basket, and thus were pretty much always in position for an offensive rebound, which they were tremendous at, along with Bird.  I miss old school basketball. :'(

Re: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2015, 01:52:43 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8593
  • Tommy Points: 1389
Sullinger has been operating around the rim far more often than he did at the beginning of the season, particularly when he started playing with Zeller. Zeller so often occupied the middle of the paint which forced Sullinger outside to the three-point line. When playing with Olynyk or Bass (haven't checked the stats on this, just going by naked eye), Sullinger seems to dominate the paint more. I'd love it if Zeller was encouraged to shoot from the FT line extended. I think a combination of Sully and Zeller with Zeller playing high and Sullinger down on the blocks could be really effective offensively.

What's wrong with having two guys who can post up on the court at the same time?  I get what you're saying, and I'm sure that they could be interchangeable out there if need be, but I'm old fashioned, lol. ;D  Play inside. 

Also, the combined passing ability of Sullinger and Zeller together on the court would surely help us out offensively, no?  Just me?  Okay, lol. ;D
I agree with what you're saying, but Sully and Zeller are sort of average passers.  We're not talking about Bird and Walton here.

Sully has shown flashes to good to very good passing skills and Zeller is a pretty good passer for his size as well. The problem is not passing. It's rare that two big men can sit on opposite blocks without compromising floor spacing. At the very least one should ideally operate as a face-up big from the free throw line while the other roams the paint 3-6 feet in. It's why Dwight Howard seems to have much more space playing with Motiejunas, why Gasol and Noah haven't worked as well as one would've hoped this year (while each have the offensive skills to play as the face-up big, neither excel as much as when in the painted area), and why the Randolph-M. Gasol combination has seemed to improved despite Randolph's aging as Gasol has continued to add to his outside game.

Agreed. And Zeller can hit from FT line area with consistency.
The Tarstradamus Group, LLC

Re: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2015, 03:00:54 AM »

Offline krumeto

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 476
  • Tommy Points: 72
Once we have a better PG (either develop or acquire one) and more experienced team, Zeller and everyone else will get more shots in their sweet spots.

Units involving 2 of Bradley, Zeller, Bass and Crowder are brutal at passing. A hand-off Zeller to Bradley is a TO waiting to happen. The perimeter passing is often off the mark...

Entry passes to the post are not thaaat easy. Better said, bad entry passes are easy, but push the big men further from the basket. Good ones are either a result of ball movement prior to the pass or a work of good passer.

We will get there eventually. I hope.

"We do so many defensive drills in practice, I come home and I'm putting the press on my woman, denying her the ball.
Y'all are laughing, but it's sad. I go home and deny the wing."

Re: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2015, 03:28:26 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11833
  • Tommy Points: 950
What's wrong with having two guys who can post up on the court at the same time?  I get what you're saying, and I'm sure that they could be interchangeable out there if need be, but I'm old fashioned, lol. ;D  Play inside. 

Also, the combined passing ability of Sullinger and Zeller together on the court would surely help us out offensively, no?  Just me?  Okay, lol. ;D

Advanced analytics says that a post-up shot is an inefficient shot.  I think Stevens' philosophy is that if you give the ball to someone like Sullinger or Zeller in the post, you're better off if they can pass the ball to someone like Bradley for an open jumper rather than taking a contested shot inside, so their ability to pass is probably a plus in Stevens' system.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2015, 04:12:27 AM »

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
Once we have a better PG (either develop or acquire one) and more experienced team, Zeller and everyone else will get more shots in their sweet spots.

Units involving 2 of Bradley, Zeller, Bass and Crowder are brutal at passing. A hand-off Zeller to Bradley is a TO waiting to happen. The perimeter passing is often off the mark...

Entry passes to the post are not thaaat easy. Better said, bad entry passes are easy, but push the big men further from the basket. Good ones are either a result of ball movement prior to the pass or a work of good passer.

We will get there eventually. I hope.

That right there shows you the difference in skill level between the players of today and the guys from, let's say, the 80s.  Feeding the post is now seen as a skill, :o ::) when it used to be that everyone knew how to do it.  Ugh.  If you can't get it to the guy from where you are, and the high-low option isn't available, just triangle and have the big guy seal his man.  He'll at least get a foul, if not a 3 point play opportunity, most of the time, as long as he keeps the ball high and can at least make a layup, lol. ;D  I'm not suggesting rocket science here, am I, lol? ;D

Re: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2015, 04:21:16 AM »

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
What's wrong with having two guys who can post up on the court at the same time?  I get what you're saying, and I'm sure that they could be interchangeable out there if need be, but I'm old fashioned, lol. ;D  Play inside. 

Also, the combined passing ability of Sullinger and Zeller together on the court would surely help us out offensively, no?  Just me?  Okay, lol. ;D

Advanced analytics says that a post-up shot is an inefficient shot.  I think Stevens' philosophy is that if you give the ball to someone like Sullinger or Zeller in the post, you're better off if they can pass the ball to someone like Bradley for an open jumper rather than taking a contested shot inside, so their ability to pass is probably a plus in Stevens' system.

Stop, lol. ;D  I completely agree with your point about double teaming, though, but it only occurs if the post player is deemed dangerous enough that the defense has to help his primary defender out by dropping another guy down, after which you can catch them in rotation.  I also hate how slow guys are nowadays when they (rarely) try to go around the horn.  You have to move the ball quickly, and if the defense catches up, just pump-fake and send it back around.  I thought that this was basic basketball, but I guess that the 'analytics' don't know anything about that, lol. ::) ;D  Ugh.

Re: Tyler Zeller
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2015, 05:22:03 AM »

Offline rollie mass

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4270
  • Tommy Points: 1233
Agree on passing,i have been posting for weeks, how poor they are.How  slopply ,slow and inprecise. This non chalant attitude or laziness i think starts with evan turners style and extends to his crossover and around back and even reverse pivot.Nothing worse than lazy crosscourt passes or two low bounce passes to big men.Both nelson and thornton seemed to put more zip into passes and zeller has to be more agressive on hand offs.I understand wingspan on defenders differs sometimes dramatically as well as defensive quickness and reaction time but some of these passes have you pulling your hair out-we got benched big time.Timing on setting pick and rolls is something zeller excells at and kelly needs lessons.Kellys reach is really problematic,he can't be lazy at anything.