Olynyk is a problem

[kraidstar]

Ainge traded up for him. Consider that when you're gauging how you feel about our future. I do not know  a single person, not even a friend that was at Gonzaga when Olynyk was there, who would've traded up into the lottery for him. I almost thought it was a joke. I (and every one I know) would say the same about the JJJ, Moore, and Melo picks. He's a total scrub.

Can not wait till this "rebuild" is deemed a failure and Ainge is gone.

there are few if any players picked after the "busts" you mentioned which would have moved the needle for this franchise. look at the draft boards if you don't believe me.
KO was 13th in a poor draft class. we gave up only a 2nd-rounder to trade up. he still has a lot of upside, and has performed well ahead of where he was drafted.

moore was a second-rounder who is actually OK now on chicago. the fact that he's still in the NBA at all after being a late-2nd rounder says it was a good pick.

JJJ and melo were bad picks, but who would you have picked instead? look at the draft board for those years, there was very little talent late in the first round and beyond.

 IMO the best players taken after JJJ was jimmy butler (30th, 2011) and chandler parsons (38th, 2011). not much else there.

best pick after melo was draymond green (35th, 2012), the rest of that late draft was trash.

the only draft where i think ainge really did poorly was 2008 with JR giddens. ainge missed pekovic (31st), chalmers (34th), deandre jordan (35th), asik (36th), and mbah a moute (37th).
but then again, a ton of other teams missed on those guys too, they are all flawed players with a couple very strong skills. we already had a then-healthy defensive center in perk, as well asa healthy powe, big baby, and KG. bigs were not a need then, and chalmers and mbah a moute wouldn't have made much of a difference then or now.

the bottom line is that, in those 3 drafts where ainge "failed" there was little available talent, and it's easy in retrospect to cherry-pick the best of them from a list; not so easy to do it beforehand.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Ainge traded up for him. Consider that when you're gauging how you feel about our future. I do not know  a single person, not even a friend that was at Gonzaga when Olynyk was there, who would've traded up into the lottery for him. I almost thought it was a joke. I (and every one I know) would say the same about the JJJ, Moore, and Melo picks. He's a total scrub.

Can not wait till this "rebuild" is deemed a failure and Ainge is gone.

there are few if any players picked after the "busts" you mentioned which would have moved the needle for this franchise. look at the draft boards if you don't believe me.
KO was 13th in a poor draft class. we gave up only a 2nd-rounder to trade up. he still has a lot of upside, and has performed well ahead of where he was drafted.

moore was a second-rounder who is actually OK now on chicago. the fact that he's still in the NBA at all after being a late-2nd rounder says it was a good pick.

JJJ and melo were bad picks, but who would you have picked instead? look at the draft board for those years, there was very little talent late in the first round and beyond.

 IMO the best players taken after JJJ was jimmy butler (30th, 2011) and chandler parsons (38th, 2011). not much else there.

best pick after melo was draymond green (35th, 2012), the rest of that late draft was trash.

the only draft where i think ainge really did poorly was 2008 with JR giddens. ainge missed pekovic (31st), chalmers (34th), deandre jordan (35th), asik (36th), and mbah a moute (37th).
but then again, a ton of other teams missed on those guys too, they are all flawed players with a couple very strong skills. we already had a then-healthy defensive center in perk, as well asa healthy powe, big baby, and KG. bigs were not a need then, and chalmers and mbah a moute wouldn't have made much of a difference then or now.

the bottom line is that, in those 3 drafts where ainge "failed" there was little available talent, and it's easy in retrospect to cherry-pick the best of them from a list; not so easy to do it beforehand.

Think you may have just substantiated my point even better than I did.

[GratefulCs]

Ya, why can't Ainge do what no other GM can do and get EVERY draft pick right! I don't care that he hasn't had top picks.


All joking aside, most fans of the NBA have Ainge as one of the top 3-5 GM's in the league. Seriously! That's a good sign


And time will tell with Kelly

[GratefulCs]

Whoops. Double post

[Old Wine]

KO is playing out of his natural position, he is PF and the moron in charge is playing him at center.

[inverselock]

Ainge traded up for him. Consider that when you're gauging how you feel about our future. I do not know  a single person, not even a friend that was at Gonzaga when Olynyk was there, who would've traded up into the lottery for him. I almost thought it was a joke. I (and every one I know) would say the same about the JJJ, Moore, and Melo picks. He's a total scrub.

Can not wait till this "rebuild" is deemed a failure and Ainge is gone.

Are your friends NBA scouts?

[clover]

I have been watching games this season and noticed an interesting trend - Celtics do significantly better with Olynyk off the floor. He is a defensive sieve with no special offensive skills. Consider this - after he got injured we beat Denver, nearly upset Golden State, etc. All of advanced defensive metrics went up significantly. I really do not understand people who say that Olynyk is valuable or is a good player - he is terrible. I hope he will get traded come draft day to move in the draft.

IF that were so, the numbers would show it--and they don't.

[mctyson]

i was waiting for this particular knee-jerk thread.
OP is dead wrong.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01.html
c's have a +1.5 points per 100 possessions differential with KO on the floor. they have a terrible -6 points per 100 possessions differential without him.
so ultimately the boston celtics have a +7.5 points per possession differential with KO than without.

Not only dead wrong from a stats perspective but from an opinion perspective.  KO is one of, if not the most, talented players on the roster.  With Rondo gone, he might be the best passer on the team.

[SHAQATTACK]

KO has great small man skills , few bigs do . 

He is just behind the curve on learning to defend as a big in the NBA and scoring inside 10 ft.

 Bass had no inside game and now is a decent player in the paint.  KO can learn too.   It will take another year or two for him to develop the whole inside / outside game

[hwangjini_1]

Ainge traded up for him. Consider that when you're gauging how you feel about our future. I do not know  a single person, not even a friend that was at Gonzaga when Olynyk was there, who would've traded up into the lottery for him. I almost thought it was a joke. I (and every one I know) would say the same about the JJJ, Moore, and Melo picks. He's a total scrub.

Can not wait till this "rebuild" is deemed a failure and Ainge is gone.

there are few if any players picked after the "busts" you mentioned which would have moved the needle for this franchise. look at the draft boards if you don't believe me.
KO was 13th in a poor draft class. we gave up only a 2nd-rounder to trade up. he still has a lot of upside, and has performed well ahead of where he was drafted.

moore was a second-rounder who is actually OK now on chicago. the fact that he's still in the NBA at all after being a late-2nd rounder says it was a good pick.

JJJ and melo were bad picks, but who would you have picked instead? look at the draft board for those years, there was very little talent late in the first round and beyond.

 IMO the best players taken after JJJ was jimmy butler (30th, 2011) and chandler parsons (38th, 2011). not much else there.

best pick after melo was draymond green (35th, 2012), the rest of that late draft was trash.

the only draft where i think ainge really did poorly was 2008 with JR giddens. ainge missed pekovic (31st), chalmers (34th), deandre jordan (35th), asik (36th), and mbah a moute (37th).
but then again, a ton of other teams missed on those guys too, they are all flawed players with a couple very strong skills. we already had a then-healthy defensive center in perk, as well asa healthy powe, big baby, and KG. bigs were not a need then, and chalmers and mbah a moute wouldn't have made much of a difference then or now.

the bottom line is that, in those 3 drafts where ainge "failed" there was little available talent, and it's easy in retrospect to cherry-pick the best of them from a list; not so easy to do it beforehand.

Think you may have just substantiated my point even better than I did.

let me see. tarheels cites his friends as authorities on the nba draft.

kraid invokes data, facts, and expert opinions for his post.

nope. sorry but this does not in any way substantiate tarheels' point. it refutes it.

[slamtheking]

KO's problem is that he needs to be guarding PFs, not centers, and that he needs to be a lot more aggressive on offense.  when he's looking to score he's pretty effective. 

[Sundov Millionaire]

I just joined CB to post on this thread as I feel so strongly about it.

Kelly has regressed this year, and even worse, his body language on the floor is as though he does not understand just how many mistakes he is making.

To  lump Sully in with Olynyk is absurd. There may be a number of deeper statistics ie WAR that can talk you into thinking Kelly is a legit player - but make no mistake he is the worst player who has received legitimate minutes on this team. The positive results the team has experienced as a result of Bass being a starter and Zeller taking the big man rotation spot off bench is legit.

[Celtics4ever]

To  lump Sully in with Olynyk is absurd.

How so, both are relatively skilled on offense.   Both are limited athletically and both are bad on defense.   Sully is the more productive of the two.    They both are nifty passers with high IQs.  Both were good college players.   Both are prone to rookie type slumps.

[jdpapa3]

To  lump Sully in with Olynyk is absurd. There may be a number of deeper statistics ie WAR that can talk you into thinking Kelly is a legit player - but make no mistake he is the worst player who has received legitimate minutes on this team. The positive results the team has experienced as a result of Bass being a starter and Zeller taking the big man rotation spot off bench is legit.

Nah, it's because Jeff Green is no longer a vortex sucking 20 seconds out of possessions for 35 minutes a game. Olynyk is good enough on offense to cancel out his poor defense.

[Sundov Millionaire]

To  lump Sully in with Olynyk is absurd.

How so, both are relatively skilled on offense.   Both are limited athletically and both are bad on defense.   Sully is the more productive of the two.    They both are nifty passers with high IQs.  Both were good college players.   Both are prone to rookie type slumps.

I would argue, successfully, that Sully is better on offense, defense, passing, bball IQ, college player, and less prone to slumps. Sully's slumps were more of the minutes juggling, results based variety than Kelly's this year IMO. Just my two cents . I know KO is a first round draft pick and fun to follow on Instagram but I really think he takes more off the table than he adds to it