Rondo benched down the stretch in Dallas

[GreenFaith1819]

I predicted a honeymoon period.  Seems like it's over.

I'm enjoying this.  This is Antoine Walker all over again.  A loveable, obscenely overrated Celtic, who racked up empty stats due to our quirky system... and was exposed as soon as we dumped him off on Dallas. 

Rondo has been horrible. Particularly in his last 4 games as the Mavericks realize what guys like Zach Lowe and myself were saying immediately following the deal... he hurts their pace-and-space offense.   Last 4 for the superstah:  5.8 points, 4 assists, 3.8 rebounds, 0.8 steals, 2.8 turnovers, 33%/33%/0%.   He hasn't made a free throw this year, btw.

He cracked double-digit assists once in his past 14 games.  Rhetorical question:  Can one still be considered the "best pure point guard" in the league when he's averaging 7 assists and 3 turnovers... or is that label contingent on him racking up empty assists in a offense that caters to his weaknesses?

Mavs fans are already worried.  Forget about offering him the max, several of the Mavs fans think 12 mil a year is an overpay.  The apologists on the forum lean on the fact he's a "great defensive improvement".  Neat... should have just brought in a defensive role player then... preferably one who can hit an open shot once in a while.   Can they be happy that Rondo is their poor man's Bruce Bowen?  Dunno.   Regardless, seems all the Mavs fans acknowledge that the system is a bad fit for Rondo and that the offense improves with Barea out there. 

Functionally, he just doesn't make sense on that team.  They rely on spacing and ball movement.  Rondo NEEDS the ball in his hand to be at all effective.  Rondo is a complete liability when others control it (and unfortunately, Ellis is a better ball-dominating guard).  I've been saying this for years, but this is the first opportunity to see it proven as Dallas tries to incorporate him into their free-flowing offense.  Sure, if you had paid attention to the Celtics you'd notice that Stevens likes that form of offense as well... they simply didn't run it when Rondo played, because Rondo can't do it.  In Dallas, teams are leaving him insultingly wide open.  Sure, he'll respond 1 out of 6 games with an off-character shooting display.  But teams will continue to leave him wide open.     Playoff series are 7 games.  Teams are going to be fine living and dying with Rajon Rondo's shooting. 

Most of the myths are being dispelled.  We still need to see the "Playoff Rondo" myth dispelled, but I have a hunch it's coming.  Unless they give Rondo the keys to the car and relegate Ellis to off-the-ball duty, you're not going to see "Playoff Rondo". 

Of course, I could be wrong.  Maybe he's just learning the tendencies of his teammates and adjusting.  Maybe we've yet to see the best of Rondo.   Going to be interesting to see where his career goes from this.  Toine didn't last very long after his Dallas exposure.  I mean, Monta Ellis couldn't co-exist with a god-like shooter named Steph Curry.  I'm not sure why anyone would expect him to co-exist with an offensive-inept Rajon Rondo.   One thing that could turn around Rondo's season is an injury to Ellis.  If that happens and they replace Ellis with a Kyle Korver type who can hit open shots,  Rondo has a chance take the reigns and get his stats.

Silly.

Antoine Walker helped Miami win a championship.  Might have been interesting to have him here in Boston during the KG-Pierce-Allen years.  WE might have another banner!

I wouldn't be surprised to see him lead another team to a championship. 

I find it awesome that you prefaced your post with "silly" then followed up with one of the most nonsensical things one could say with that Antoine comment.

Also, what team did Rondo lead to a championship? "Lead" being the key word. It's revisionist history to think Rondo was anything other than an along for the ride/role player in 08. If he "lead" us to a title then that definition is so loose it would apply to Posey and Perk as well.

I'll try to take a stab at ThaPreacher's "Silly" remark....

It is "Silly" that DAL got a big win on the road IN MEM just a few days ago...Rondo made some KEY PLAYS down the stretch....and no one started a thread about that game, then.

Because Rondo ACTUALLY played well? OH EM GEEE.

But this thread here will be about 10-20 pages long examining all the angles as to why Rondo was benched last night.

That, My Friend, "IS SILLY"

What did Rondo do against Memphis that made you put "KEY PLAYS" in caps? I'll admit I didn't watch the game, but I'll happily watch the final 4Q in the league pass archives to see what he did.  The box score has him playing only 26 minutes scoring 6 pts on 3-8 shooting, 3 reb, 1 ast, and 2 TO's.

I think it's noteworthy that Carlisle benched him, especially for Devin Harris. A coach plays/trusts his best players down the stretch and apparently Carlisle doesn't.

And....you make this statement after ONE game? That is as generalized a statement as I've seen on here.

Evidently, on CelticsBlog - some posters CAN make generalized statements, but some CAN'T?

But anyway here's the quotes/link from the MEM game:

However, in Monday's road win against the Memphis Grizzlies, Rondo played a critical role in Dallas' 14-4 run to close the game, scoring on a floater and baseline jumper to start the spurt after the Mavs briefly lost the lead.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/12220179/rajon-rondo-benching-crunch-coach-decision-rick-carlisle-says

Don't count Rajon Rondo out, LOL.....he's been groomed in KG's kitchen.



He's helped DAL tremendously defensively (a fact that's been conveniently ignored around here), and that is why they got him.

Yes, it's one game, but he's only played 16 games. Pretty quick for something like this to happen. However, a bigger tale is that his minutes are only trending downwards. When he first arrived in Dallas he was consistently getting above 30 mpg (7 out of 9 games), but has received mpg in the 20's, and has only been above 30 mpg in 1 out of his last 7 games.

So they got him simply to be a flashy Avery Johnson? That's a lot of money for a defensive player who's FT% will go down in infamy.

It's not 2012 anymore. Some people need to realize that the Rondo that they knew and obviously adored has clearly lost a step. This is exactly what happens to athletically dependent players who never developed their offensive game. The days of Rondo being mentioned in the same breath as other top 5 PG's is so gone it's laughable. He's now fully entrenched in the middle of the pack of PG's, being very kind here, and only those that are honest with themselves can admit it.

LOL you say this and Rajon Rondo averaged 8.3 pts, 10.8 assists, 7.5 rebs, 1.7 steals in 32 min for us.

In DAL? He's averaging 10.4 pts, 1.6 steals, 7.1 assists, 5.1 rebounds in 31 min - with a better team around him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

And, besides Tony Parker - Rajon Rondo has something that "The Other Top PGs" don't have:



Remember - basketball is a TEAM sport. Rondo's fitting in quite nicely.

[GreenFaith1819]

Code: [Select]

    Player  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P%  FT FTA   FT% ORB DRB  TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
Rajon Rondo 16 16 30.6 4.8 11.8 .402 0.6 1.6 .385 4.1 10.2 .405 0.3 1.1  .235 1.4 3.6  5.1 7.1 1.6 0.1 2.9 3.4 10.4
Solid.   No Allstar or Hof.

Let me look at that crystal ball of yours and we can both be rich.

Better yet - let me look at that crystal ball and perhaps see when BOS will be in contention again....or whether we'll draft Okafor or even get the opportunity to draft him.

Rondo's Story is still being written...how can we say whether he's HOF material or not?

[MBunge]

I think it's interesting to talk about Rondo because before the knee injury, you could make the a argument Rondo was becoming one of the special players in the league.  He was the best passing and rebounding pg in the league, could play great defense and was capable of giving you single-game performances on the same level as LeBron and Durant.

That guy is nowhere to be seen and hasn't been around for a while.

I expected Rondo to come in and tear it up this season.  He was going to be the unquestioned leader of a team playing at a faster pace than Boston ever had with Rondo before, and he was on a team full of players you'd think a pg like Rondo could make them look better than what they are.  Instead, Rondo dogged his way into a trade.

Now he's on a team that wants to think it's a contender and, sure, he improves their defense.  They could have replaced Jameer Nelson with a mailbox and it would have improved their defense.  Shouldn't Rondo at this point in his career be more than an inferior version of Tony Allen?

Mike

You think this is because of Brad Stevens, maybe?

I'm not the biggest fan of Stevens but if Rondo just gave the same effort in Boston that he's been giving in Dallas, he might not have been traded.

Mike

[GreenFaith1819]

I think it's interesting to talk about Rondo because before the knee injury, you could make the a argument Rondo was becoming one of the special players in the league.  He was the best passing and rebounding pg in the league, could play great defense and was capable of giving you single-game performances on the same level as LeBron and Durant.

That guy is nowhere to be seen and hasn't been around for a while.

I expected Rondo to come in and tear it up this season.  He was going to be the unquestioned leader of a team playing at a faster pace than Boston ever had with Rondo before, and he was on a team full of players you'd think a pg like Rondo could make them look better than what they are.  Instead, Rondo dogged his way into a trade.

Now he's on a team that wants to think it's a contender and, sure, he improves their defense.  They could have replaced Jameer Nelson with a mailbox and it would have improved their defense.  Shouldn't Rondo at this point in his career be more than an inferior version of Tony Allen?

Mike

You think this is because of Brad Stevens, maybe?

I'm not the biggest fan of Stevens but if Rondo just gave the same effort in Boston that he's been giving in Dallas, he might not have been traded.

Mike

Tell that to Danny Ainge.

[MBunge]

I predicted a honeymoon period.  Seems like it's over.

I'm enjoying this.  This is Antoine Walker all over again.  A loveable, obscenely overrated Celtic, who racked up empty stats due to our quirky system... and was exposed as soon as we dumped him off on Dallas. 

Rondo has been horrible. Particularly in his last 4 games as the Mavericks realize what guys like Zach Lowe and myself were saying immediately following the deal... he hurts their pace-and-space offense.   Last 4 for the superstah:  5.8 points, 4 assists, 3.8 rebounds, 0.8 steals, 2.8 turnovers, 33%/33%/0%.   He hasn't made a free throw this year, btw.

He cracked double-digit assists once in his past 14 games.  Rhetorical question:  Can one still be considered the "best pure point guard" in the league when he's averaging 7 assists and 3 turnovers... or is that label contingent on him racking up empty assists in a offense that caters to his weaknesses?

Mavs fans are already worried.  Forget about offering him the max, several of the Mavs fans think 12 mil a year is an overpay.  The apologists on the forum lean on the fact he's a "great defensive improvement".  Neat... should have just brought in a defensive role player then... preferably one who can hit an open shot once in a while.   Can they be happy that Rondo is their poor man's Bruce Bowen?  Dunno.   Regardless, seems all the Mavs fans acknowledge that the system is a bad fit for Rondo and that the offense improves with Barea out there. 

Functionally, he just doesn't make sense on that team.  They rely on spacing and ball movement.  Rondo NEEDS the ball in his hand to be at all effective.  Rondo is a complete liability when others control it (and unfortunately, Ellis is a better ball-dominating guard).  I've been saying this for years, but this is the first opportunity to see it proven as Dallas tries to incorporate him into their free-flowing offense.  Sure, if you had paid attention to the Celtics you'd notice that Stevens likes that form of offense as well... they simply didn't run it when Rondo played, because Rondo can't do it.  In Dallas, teams are leaving him insultingly wide open.  Sure, he'll respond 1 out of 6 games with an off-character shooting display.  But teams will continue to leave him wide open.     Playoff series are 7 games.  Teams are going to be fine living and dying with Rajon Rondo's shooting. 

Most of the myths are being dispelled.  We still need to see the "Playoff Rondo" myth dispelled, but I have a hunch it's coming.  Unless they give Rondo the keys to the car and relegate Ellis to off-the-ball duty, you're not going to see "Playoff Rondo". 

Of course, I could be wrong.  Maybe he's just learning the tendencies of his teammates and adjusting.  Maybe we've yet to see the best of Rondo.   Going to be interesting to see where his career goes from this.  Toine didn't last very long after his Dallas exposure.  I mean, Monta Ellis couldn't co-exist with a god-like shooter named Steph Curry.  I'm not sure why anyone would expect him to co-exist with an offensive-inept Rajon Rondo.   One thing that could turn around Rondo's season is an injury to Ellis.  If that happens and they replace Ellis with a Kyle Korver type who can hit open shots,  Rondo has a chance take the reigns and get his stats.

Silly.

Antoine Walker helped Miami win a championship.  Might have been interesting to have him here in Boston during the KG-Pierce-Allen years.  WE might have another banner!

I wouldn't be surprised to see him lead another team to a championship. 

I find it awesome that you prefaced your post with "silly" then followed up with one of the most nonsensical things one could say with that Antoine comment.

Also, what team did Rondo lead to a championship? "Lead" being the key word. It's revisionist history to think Rondo was anything other than an along for the ride/role player in 08. If he "lead" us to a title then that definition is so loose it would apply to Posey and Perk as well.

I'll try to take a stab at ThaPreacher's "Silly" remark....

It is "Silly" that DAL got a big win on the road IN MEM just a few days ago...Rondo made some KEY PLAYS down the stretch....and no one started a thread about that game, then.

Because Rondo ACTUALLY played well? OH EM GEEE.

But this thread here will be about 10-20 pages long examining all the angles as to why Rondo was benched last night.

That, My Friend, "IS SILLY"

What did Rondo do against Memphis that made you put "KEY PLAYS" in caps? I'll admit I didn't watch the game, but I'll happily watch the final 4Q in the league pass archives to see what he did.  The box score has him playing only 26 minutes scoring 6 pts on 3-8 shooting, 3 reb, 1 ast, and 2 TO's.

I think it's noteworthy that Carlisle benched him, especially for Devin Harris. A coach plays/trusts his best players down the stretch and apparently Carlisle doesn't.

And....you make this statement after ONE game? That is as generalized a statement as I've seen on here.

Evidently, on CelticsBlog - some posters CAN make generalized statements, but some CAN'T?

But anyway here's the quotes/link from the MEM game:

However, in Monday's road win against the Memphis Grizzlies, Rondo played a critical role in Dallas' 14-4 run to close the game, scoring on a floater and baseline jumper to start the spurt after the Mavs briefly lost the lead.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/12220179/rajon-rondo-benching-crunch-coach-decision-rick-carlisle-says

Don't count Rajon Rondo out, LOL.....he's been groomed in KG's kitchen.



He's helped DAL tremendously defensively (a fact that's been conveniently ignored around here), and that is why they got him.

Yes, it's one game, but he's only played 16 games. Pretty quick for something like this to happen. However, a bigger tale is that his minutes are only trending downwards. When he first arrived in Dallas he was consistently getting above 30 mpg (7 out of 9 games), but has received mpg in the 20's, and has only been above 30 mpg in 1 out of his last 7 games.

So they got him simply to be a flashy Avery Johnson? That's a lot of money for a defensive player who's FT% will go down in infamy.

It's not 2012 anymore. Some people need to realize that the Rondo that they knew and obviously adored has clearly lost a step. This is exactly what happens to athletically dependent players who never developed their offensive game. The days of Rondo being mentioned in the same breath as other top 5 PG's is so gone it's laughable. He's now fully entrenched in the middle of the pack of PG's, being very kind here, and only those that are honest with themselves can admit it.

LOL you say this and Rajon Rondo averaged 8.3 pts, 10.8 assists, 7.5 rebs, 1.7 steals in 32 min for us.

In DAL? He's averaging 10.4 pts, 1.6 steals, 7.1 assists, 5.1 rebounds in 31 min - with a better team around him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

And, besides Tony Parker - Rajon Rondo has something that "The Other Top PGs" don't have:



Remember - basketball is a TEAM sport. Rondo's fitting in quite nicely.

10 points a game is what you hope the 7th guy in your rotation gives you.  And Rondo's assists and rebounds going down is a good sign...how?

Mike

[MBunge]

I think it's interesting to talk about Rondo because before the knee injury, you could make the a argument Rondo was becoming one of the special players in the league.  He was the best passing and rebounding pg in the league, could play great defense and was capable of giving you single-game performances on the same level as LeBron and Durant.

That guy is nowhere to be seen and hasn't been around for a while.

I expected Rondo to come in and tear it up this season.  He was going to be the unquestioned leader of a team playing at a faster pace than Boston ever had with Rondo before, and he was on a team full of players you'd think a pg like Rondo could make them look better than what they are.  Instead, Rondo dogged his way into a trade.

Now he's on a team that wants to think it's a contender and, sure, he improves their defense.  They could have replaced Jameer Nelson with a mailbox and it would have improved their defense.  Shouldn't Rondo at this point in his career be more than an inferior version of Tony Allen?

Mike

You think this is because of Brad Stevens, maybe?

I'm not the biggest fan of Stevens but if Rondo just gave the same effort in Boston that he's been giving in Dallas, he might not have been traded.

Mike

Tell that to Danny Ainge.

I'm pretty sure no one was more surprised and disappointed than Ainge when Rondo came into his contract year and frequently looked like a shell of himself.

Mike

[GreenFaith1819]

I predicted a honeymoon period.  Seems like it's over.

I'm enjoying this.  This is Antoine Walker all over again.  A loveable, obscenely overrated Celtic, who racked up empty stats due to our quirky system... and was exposed as soon as we dumped him off on Dallas. 

Rondo has been horrible. Particularly in his last 4 games as the Mavericks realize what guys like Zach Lowe and myself were saying immediately following the deal... he hurts their pace-and-space offense.   Last 4 for the superstah:  5.8 points, 4 assists, 3.8 rebounds, 0.8 steals, 2.8 turnovers, 33%/33%/0%.   He hasn't made a free throw this year, btw.

He cracked double-digit assists once in his past 14 games.  Rhetorical question:  Can one still be considered the "best pure point guard" in the league when he's averaging 7 assists and 3 turnovers... or is that label contingent on him racking up empty assists in a offense that caters to his weaknesses?

Mavs fans are already worried.  Forget about offering him the max, several of the Mavs fans think 12 mil a year is an overpay.  The apologists on the forum lean on the fact he's a "great defensive improvement".  Neat... should have just brought in a defensive role player then... preferably one who can hit an open shot once in a while.   Can they be happy that Rondo is their poor man's Bruce Bowen?  Dunno.   Regardless, seems all the Mavs fans acknowledge that the system is a bad fit for Rondo and that the offense improves with Barea out there. 

Functionally, he just doesn't make sense on that team.  They rely on spacing and ball movement.  Rondo NEEDS the ball in his hand to be at all effective.  Rondo is a complete liability when others control it (and unfortunately, Ellis is a better ball-dominating guard).  I've been saying this for years, but this is the first opportunity to see it proven as Dallas tries to incorporate him into their free-flowing offense.  Sure, if you had paid attention to the Celtics you'd notice that Stevens likes that form of offense as well... they simply didn't run it when Rondo played, because Rondo can't do it.  In Dallas, teams are leaving him insultingly wide open.  Sure, he'll respond 1 out of 6 games with an off-character shooting display.  But teams will continue to leave him wide open.     Playoff series are 7 games.  Teams are going to be fine living and dying with Rajon Rondo's shooting. 

Most of the myths are being dispelled.  We still need to see the "Playoff Rondo" myth dispelled, but I have a hunch it's coming.  Unless they give Rondo the keys to the car and relegate Ellis to off-the-ball duty, you're not going to see "Playoff Rondo". 

Of course, I could be wrong.  Maybe he's just learning the tendencies of his teammates and adjusting.  Maybe we've yet to see the best of Rondo.   Going to be interesting to see where his career goes from this.  Toine didn't last very long after his Dallas exposure.  I mean, Monta Ellis couldn't co-exist with a god-like shooter named Steph Curry.  I'm not sure why anyone would expect him to co-exist with an offensive-inept Rajon Rondo.   One thing that could turn around Rondo's season is an injury to Ellis.  If that happens and they replace Ellis with a Kyle Korver type who can hit open shots,  Rondo has a chance take the reigns and get his stats.

Silly.

Antoine Walker helped Miami win a championship.  Might have been interesting to have him here in Boston during the KG-Pierce-Allen years.  WE might have another banner!

I wouldn't be surprised to see him lead another team to a championship. 

I find it awesome that you prefaced your post with "silly" then followed up with one of the most nonsensical things one could say with that Antoine comment.

Also, what team did Rondo lead to a championship? "Lead" being the key word. It's revisionist history to think Rondo was anything other than an along for the ride/role player in 08. If he "lead" us to a title then that definition is so loose it would apply to Posey and Perk as well.

I'll try to take a stab at ThaPreacher's "Silly" remark....

It is "Silly" that DAL got a big win on the road IN MEM just a few days ago...Rondo made some KEY PLAYS down the stretch....and no one started a thread about that game, then.

Because Rondo ACTUALLY played well? OH EM GEEE.

But this thread here will be about 10-20 pages long examining all the angles as to why Rondo was benched last night.

That, My Friend, "IS SILLY"

What did Rondo do against Memphis that made you put "KEY PLAYS" in caps? I'll admit I didn't watch the game, but I'll happily watch the final 4Q in the league pass archives to see what he did.  The box score has him playing only 26 minutes scoring 6 pts on 3-8 shooting, 3 reb, 1 ast, and 2 TO's.

I think it's noteworthy that Carlisle benched him, especially for Devin Harris. A coach plays/trusts his best players down the stretch and apparently Carlisle doesn't.

And....you make this statement after ONE game? That is as generalized a statement as I've seen on here.

Evidently, on CelticsBlog - some posters CAN make generalized statements, but some CAN'T?

But anyway here's the quotes/link from the MEM game:

However, in Monday's road win against the Memphis Grizzlies, Rondo played a critical role in Dallas' 14-4 run to close the game, scoring on a floater and baseline jumper to start the spurt after the Mavs briefly lost the lead.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/12220179/rajon-rondo-benching-crunch-coach-decision-rick-carlisle-says

Don't count Rajon Rondo out, LOL.....he's been groomed in KG's kitchen.



He's helped DAL tremendously defensively (a fact that's been conveniently ignored around here), and that is why they got him.

Yes, it's one game, but he's only played 16 games. Pretty quick for something like this to happen. However, a bigger tale is that his minutes are only trending downwards. When he first arrived in Dallas he was consistently getting above 30 mpg (7 out of 9 games), but has received mpg in the 20's, and has only been above 30 mpg in 1 out of his last 7 games.

So they got him simply to be a flashy Avery Johnson? That's a lot of money for a defensive player who's FT% will go down in infamy.

It's not 2012 anymore. Some people need to realize that the Rondo that they knew and obviously adored has clearly lost a step. This is exactly what happens to athletically dependent players who never developed their offensive game. The days of Rondo being mentioned in the same breath as other top 5 PG's is so gone it's laughable. He's now fully entrenched in the middle of the pack of PG's, being very kind here, and only those that are honest with themselves can admit it.

LOL you say this and Rajon Rondo averaged 8.3 pts, 10.8 assists, 7.5 rebs, 1.7 steals in 32 min for us.

In DAL? He's averaging 10.4 pts, 1.6 steals, 7.1 assists, 5.1 rebounds in 31 min - with a better team around him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

And, besides Tony Parker - Rajon Rondo has something that "The Other Top PGs" don't have:



Remember - basketball is a TEAM sport. Rondo's fitting in quite nicely.

10 points a game is what you hope the 7th guy in your rotation gives you.  And Rondo's assists and rebounds going down is a good sign...how?

Mike

He's with a better team?

And even with CP3's/Westbrook's ability and stats - is there any guarantee that they are coming out of the West?

[inverselock]

Code: [Select]

    Player  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P%  FT FTA   FT% ORB DRB  TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
Rajon Rondo 16 16 30.6 4.8 11.8 .402 0.6 1.6 .385 4.1 10.2 .405 0.3 1.1  .235 1.4 3.6  5.1 7.1 1.6 0.1 2.9 3.4 10.4
Solid.   No Allstar or Hof.

Let me look at that crystal ball of yours and we can both be rich.

Better yet - let me look at that crystal ball and perhaps see when BOS will be in contention again....or whether we'll draft Okafor or even get the opportunity to draft him.

Rondo's Story is still being written...how can we say whether he's HOF material or not?

His CV.

1 x Ring as a role player.
3.5  x Seasons as an Allstar.
2 x 1st All Nba Def
2 x 2nd All Nba Def

Career 11pts/g, 8.4ast/g, 1.9 stl/g

I don't know the criteria for HOF, but that doesn't cut it for me.

[GreenFaith1819]

Code: [Select]

    Player  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P%  FT FTA   FT% ORB DRB  TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
Rajon Rondo 16 16 30.6 4.8 11.8 .402 0.6 1.6 .385 4.1 10.2 .405 0.3 1.1  .235 1.4 3.6  5.1 7.1 1.6 0.1 2.9 3.4 10.4
Solid.   No Allstar or Hof.

Let me look at that crystal ball of yours and we can both be rich.

Better yet - let me look at that crystal ball and perhaps see when BOS will be in contention again....or whether we'll draft Okafor or even get the opportunity to draft him.

Rondo's Story is still being written...how can we say whether he's HOF material or not?

His CV.

1 x Ring as a role player.
3.5  x Seasons as an Allstar.
2 x 1st All Nba Def
2 x 2nd All Nba Def

Career 11pts/g, 8.4ast/g, 1.9 stl/g

I don't know the criteria for HOF, but that doesn't cut it for me.

I'm sure the HOF Committee, when Rondo's done - will take everything into consideration.

[GreenFaith1819]

I think it's interesting to talk about Rondo because before the knee injury, you could make the a argument Rondo was becoming one of the special players in the league.  He was the best passing and rebounding pg in the league, could play great defense and was capable of giving you single-game performances on the same level as LeBron and Durant.

That guy is nowhere to be seen and hasn't been around for a while.

I expected Rondo to come in and tear it up this season.  He was going to be the unquestioned leader of a team playing at a faster pace than Boston ever had with Rondo before, and he was on a team full of players you'd think a pg like Rondo could make them look better than what they are.  Instead, Rondo dogged his way into a trade.

Now he's on a team that wants to think it's a contender and, sure, he improves their defense.  They could have replaced Jameer Nelson with a mailbox and it would have improved their defense.  Shouldn't Rondo at this point in his career be more than an inferior version of Tony Allen?

Mike

You think this is because of Brad Stevens, maybe?

I'm not the biggest fan of Stevens but if Rondo just gave the same effort in Boston that he's been giving in Dallas, he might not have been traded.

Mike

Tell that to Danny Ainge.

I'm pretty sure no one was more surprised and disappointed than Ainge when Rondo came into his contract year and frequently looked like a shell of himself.

Mike

Or - perhaps Danny was more disappointed that KLove basically chose CLE instead of us...sure, Flip wasn't going to help us out any, but Danny could not build a team around Rondo to keep him here.

And then conveniently trades him to DAL for seemingly less that what he's worth. Let the bashing begin.

Oh, wait - let's trade away our OTHER supposed slacker, Jeff Green...let's send him to MEM (another contender).

Next is Bass?

Danny knew what he was going to do long before any of us knew, and that's ok. He was already set on jettisoning Rondo (and Jeff) after the summer's rumors died down.

Our rebuild actually began in July, sadly. Danny wasn't going to trade Rondo until he at least showcased him this season.

[Eddie20]

I predicted a honeymoon period.  Seems like it's over.

I'm enjoying this.  This is Antoine Walker all over again.  A loveable, obscenely overrated Celtic, who racked up empty stats due to our quirky system... and was exposed as soon as we dumped him off on Dallas. 

Rondo has been horrible. Particularly in his last 4 games as the Mavericks realize what guys like Zach Lowe and myself were saying immediately following the deal... he hurts their pace-and-space offense.   Last 4 for the superstah:  5.8 points, 4 assists, 3.8 rebounds, 0.8 steals, 2.8 turnovers, 33%/33%/0%.   He hasn't made a free throw this year, btw.

He cracked double-digit assists once in his past 14 games.  Rhetorical question:  Can one still be considered the "best pure point guard" in the league when he's averaging 7 assists and 3 turnovers... or is that label contingent on him racking up empty assists in a offense that caters to his weaknesses?

Mavs fans are already worried.  Forget about offering him the max, several of the Mavs fans think 12 mil a year is an overpay.  The apologists on the forum lean on the fact he's a "great defensive improvement".  Neat... should have just brought in a defensive role player then... preferably one who can hit an open shot once in a while.   Can they be happy that Rondo is their poor man's Bruce Bowen?  Dunno.   Regardless, seems all the Mavs fans acknowledge that the system is a bad fit for Rondo and that the offense improves with Barea out there. 

Functionally, he just doesn't make sense on that team.  They rely on spacing and ball movement.  Rondo NEEDS the ball in his hand to be at all effective.  Rondo is a complete liability when others control it (and unfortunately, Ellis is a better ball-dominating guard).  I've been saying this for years, but this is the first opportunity to see it proven as Dallas tries to incorporate him into their free-flowing offense.  Sure, if you had paid attention to the Celtics you'd notice that Stevens likes that form of offense as well... they simply didn't run it when Rondo played, because Rondo can't do it.  In Dallas, teams are leaving him insultingly wide open.  Sure, he'll respond 1 out of 6 games with an off-character shooting display.  But teams will continue to leave him wide open.     Playoff series are 7 games.  Teams are going to be fine living and dying with Rajon Rondo's shooting. 

Most of the myths are being dispelled.  We still need to see the "Playoff Rondo" myth dispelled, but I have a hunch it's coming.  Unless they give Rondo the keys to the car and relegate Ellis to off-the-ball duty, you're not going to see "Playoff Rondo". 

Of course, I could be wrong.  Maybe he's just learning the tendencies of his teammates and adjusting.  Maybe we've yet to see the best of Rondo.   Going to be interesting to see where his career goes from this.  Toine didn't last very long after his Dallas exposure.  I mean, Monta Ellis couldn't co-exist with a god-like shooter named Steph Curry.  I'm not sure why anyone would expect him to co-exist with an offensive-inept Rajon Rondo.   One thing that could turn around Rondo's season is an injury to Ellis.  If that happens and they replace Ellis with a Kyle Korver type who can hit open shots,  Rondo has a chance take the reigns and get his stats.

Silly.

Antoine Walker helped Miami win a championship.  Might have been interesting to have him here in Boston during the KG-Pierce-Allen years.  WE might have another banner!

I wouldn't be surprised to see him lead another team to a championship. 

I find it awesome that you prefaced your post with "silly" then followed up with one of the most nonsensical things one could say with that Antoine comment.

Also, what team did Rondo lead to a championship? "Lead" being the key word. It's revisionist history to think Rondo was anything other than an along for the ride/role player in 08. If he "lead" us to a title then that definition is so loose it would apply to Posey and Perk as well.

I'll try to take a stab at ThaPreacher's "Silly" remark....

It is "Silly" that DAL got a big win on the road IN MEM just a few days ago...Rondo made some KEY PLAYS down the stretch....and no one started a thread about that game, then.

Because Rondo ACTUALLY played well? OH EM GEEE.

But this thread here will be about 10-20 pages long examining all the angles as to why Rondo was benched last night.

That, My Friend, "IS SILLY"

What did Rondo do against Memphis that made you put "KEY PLAYS" in caps? I'll admit I didn't watch the game, but I'll happily watch the final 4Q in the league pass archives to see what he did.  The box score has him playing only 26 minutes scoring 6 pts on 3-8 shooting, 3 reb, 1 ast, and 2 TO's.

I think it's noteworthy that Carlisle benched him, especially for Devin Harris. A coach plays/trusts his best players down the stretch and apparently Carlisle doesn't.

And....you make this statement after ONE game? That is as generalized a statement as I've seen on here.

Evidently, on CelticsBlog - some posters CAN make generalized statements, but some CAN'T?

But anyway here's the quotes/link from the MEM game:

However, in Monday's road win against the Memphis Grizzlies, Rondo played a critical role in Dallas' 14-4 run to close the game, scoring on a floater and baseline jumper to start the spurt after the Mavs briefly lost the lead.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/12220179/rajon-rondo-benching-crunch-coach-decision-rick-carlisle-says

Don't count Rajon Rondo out, LOL.....he's been groomed in KG's kitchen.



He's helped DAL tremendously defensively (a fact that's been conveniently ignored around here), and that is why they got him.

Yes, it's one game, but he's only played 16 games. Pretty quick for something like this to happen. However, a bigger tale is that his minutes are only trending downwards. When he first arrived in Dallas he was consistently getting above 30 mpg (7 out of 9 games), but has received mpg in the 20's, and has only been above 30 mpg in 1 out of his last 7 games.

So they got him simply to be a flashy Avery Johnson? That's a lot of money for a defensive player who's FT% will go down in infamy.

It's not 2012 anymore. Some people need to realize that the Rondo that they knew and obviously adored has clearly lost a step. This is exactly what happens to athletically dependent players who never developed their offensive game. The days of Rondo being mentioned in the same breath as other top 5 PG's is so gone it's laughable. He's now fully entrenched in the middle of the pack of PG's, being very kind here, and only those that are honest with themselves can admit it.

LOL you say this and Rajon Rondo averaged 8.3 pts, 10.8 assists, 7.5 rebs, 1.7 steals in 32 min for us.

In DAL? He's averaging 10.4 pts, 1.6 steals, 7.1 assists, 5.1 rebounds in 31 min - with a better team around him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

And, besides Tony Parker - Rajon Rondo has something that "The Other Top PGs" don't have:



Remember - basketball is a TEAM sport. Rondo's fitting in quite nicely.

By posting a picture that happened in 2008 doesn't it make you realize that perhaps you're living in the past? Not sure if you've just awoken from a deep frozen state, but it's 2015. Math not my best subject, but that's 7 years ago. That's what the Rondo boys do, they harp on the past because there isn't much to talk about in the present, and the future looks even more bleak.

[jonaslopes]

Some people here would love to trade everything we have for Hinkie. Great Celts.

[GreenFaith1819]

I predicted a honeymoon period.  Seems like it's over.

I'm enjoying this.  This is Antoine Walker all over again.  A loveable, obscenely overrated Celtic, who racked up empty stats due to our quirky system... and was exposed as soon as we dumped him off on Dallas. 

Rondo has been horrible. Particularly in his last 4 games as the Mavericks realize what guys like Zach Lowe and myself were saying immediately following the deal... he hurts their pace-and-space offense.   Last 4 for the superstah:  5.8 points, 4 assists, 3.8 rebounds, 0.8 steals, 2.8 turnovers, 33%/33%/0%.   He hasn't made a free throw this year, btw.

He cracked double-digit assists once in his past 14 games.  Rhetorical question:  Can one still be considered the "best pure point guard" in the league when he's averaging 7 assists and 3 turnovers... or is that label contingent on him racking up empty assists in a offense that caters to his weaknesses?

Mavs fans are already worried.  Forget about offering him the max, several of the Mavs fans think 12 mil a year is an overpay.  The apologists on the forum lean on the fact he's a "great defensive improvement".  Neat... should have just brought in a defensive role player then... preferably one who can hit an open shot once in a while.   Can they be happy that Rondo is their poor man's Bruce Bowen?  Dunno.   Regardless, seems all the Mavs fans acknowledge that the system is a bad fit for Rondo and that the offense improves with Barea out there. 

Functionally, he just doesn't make sense on that team.  They rely on spacing and ball movement.  Rondo NEEDS the ball in his hand to be at all effective.  Rondo is a complete liability when others control it (and unfortunately, Ellis is a better ball-dominating guard).  I've been saying this for years, but this is the first opportunity to see it proven as Dallas tries to incorporate him into their free-flowing offense.  Sure, if you had paid attention to the Celtics you'd notice that Stevens likes that form of offense as well... they simply didn't run it when Rondo played, because Rondo can't do it.  In Dallas, teams are leaving him insultingly wide open.  Sure, he'll respond 1 out of 6 games with an off-character shooting display.  But teams will continue to leave him wide open.     Playoff series are 7 games.  Teams are going to be fine living and dying with Rajon Rondo's shooting. 

Most of the myths are being dispelled.  We still need to see the "Playoff Rondo" myth dispelled, but I have a hunch it's coming.  Unless they give Rondo the keys to the car and relegate Ellis to off-the-ball duty, you're not going to see "Playoff Rondo". 

Of course, I could be wrong.  Maybe he's just learning the tendencies of his teammates and adjusting.  Maybe we've yet to see the best of Rondo.   Going to be interesting to see where his career goes from this.  Toine didn't last very long after his Dallas exposure.  I mean, Monta Ellis couldn't co-exist with a god-like shooter named Steph Curry.  I'm not sure why anyone would expect him to co-exist with an offensive-inept Rajon Rondo.   One thing that could turn around Rondo's season is an injury to Ellis.  If that happens and they replace Ellis with a Kyle Korver type who can hit open shots,  Rondo has a chance take the reigns and get his stats.

Silly.

Antoine Walker helped Miami win a championship.  Might have been interesting to have him here in Boston during the KG-Pierce-Allen years.  WE might have another banner!

I wouldn't be surprised to see him lead another team to a championship. 

I find it awesome that you prefaced your post with "silly" then followed up with one of the most nonsensical things one could say with that Antoine comment.

Also, what team did Rondo lead to a championship? "Lead" being the key word. It's revisionist history to think Rondo was anything other than an along for the ride/role player in 08. If he "lead" us to a title then that definition is so loose it would apply to Posey and Perk as well.

I'll try to take a stab at ThaPreacher's "Silly" remark....

It is "Silly" that DAL got a big win on the road IN MEM just a few days ago...Rondo made some KEY PLAYS down the stretch....and no one started a thread about that game, then.

Because Rondo ACTUALLY played well? OH EM GEEE.

But this thread here will be about 10-20 pages long examining all the angles as to why Rondo was benched last night.

That, My Friend, "IS SILLY"

What did Rondo do against Memphis that made you put "KEY PLAYS" in caps? I'll admit I didn't watch the game, but I'll happily watch the final 4Q in the league pass archives to see what he did.  The box score has him playing only 26 minutes scoring 6 pts on 3-8 shooting, 3 reb, 1 ast, and 2 TO's.

I think it's noteworthy that Carlisle benched him, especially for Devin Harris. A coach plays/trusts his best players down the stretch and apparently Carlisle doesn't.

And....you make this statement after ONE game? That is as generalized a statement as I've seen on here.

Evidently, on CelticsBlog - some posters CAN make generalized statements, but some CAN'T?

But anyway here's the quotes/link from the MEM game:

However, in Monday's road win against the Memphis Grizzlies, Rondo played a critical role in Dallas' 14-4 run to close the game, scoring on a floater and baseline jumper to start the spurt after the Mavs briefly lost the lead.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/12220179/rajon-rondo-benching-crunch-coach-decision-rick-carlisle-says

Don't count Rajon Rondo out, LOL.....he's been groomed in KG's kitchen.



He's helped DAL tremendously defensively (a fact that's been conveniently ignored around here), and that is why they got him.

Yes, it's one game, but he's only played 16 games. Pretty quick for something like this to happen. However, a bigger tale is that his minutes are only trending downwards. When he first arrived in Dallas he was consistently getting above 30 mpg (7 out of 9 games), but has received mpg in the 20's, and has only been above 30 mpg in 1 out of his last 7 games.

So they got him simply to be a flashy Avery Johnson? That's a lot of money for a defensive player who's FT% will go down in infamy.

It's not 2012 anymore. Some people need to realize that the Rondo that they knew and obviously adored has clearly lost a step. This is exactly what happens to athletically dependent players who never developed their offensive game. The days of Rondo being mentioned in the same breath as other top 5 PG's is so gone it's laughable. He's now fully entrenched in the middle of the pack of PG's, being very kind here, and only those that are honest with themselves can admit it.

LOL you say this and Rajon Rondo averaged 8.3 pts, 10.8 assists, 7.5 rebs, 1.7 steals in 32 min for us.

In DAL? He's averaging 10.4 pts, 1.6 steals, 7.1 assists, 5.1 rebounds in 31 min - with a better team around him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

And, besides Tony Parker - Rajon Rondo has something that "The Other Top PGs" don't have:



Remember - basketball is a TEAM sport. Rondo's fitting in quite nicely.

By posting a picture that happened in 2008 doesn't it make you realize that perhaps you're living in the past? Not sure if you've just awoken from a deep frozen state, but it's 2015. Math not my best subject, but that's 7 years ago. That's what the Rondo boys do, they harp on the past because there isn't much to talk about in the present, and the future looks even more bleak.

But that 2008 picture is way more than what "The Top PGs" have.

And "Rondo Boys" wow I thought we were CELTICS Fans, here....this isn't RondoBlog.

So...because I chose to debate you (and some others here), now we're "Rondo boys"...

So, let's just let those that dislike Rondo post and post and post, without challenge.

Don't get defensive because there are some of us here that still love what he did for us. I'll remember him as fondly as I did Perk, 'Toine, Posey, Sheed, KG, Paul, Ray, etc...

[ssspence]

Shocker!

[kraidstar]

rondo's true value will become more evident in the playoffs, when the mavs need a tough-minded player who can break down defenses.
a lot of these western conference teams are frauds who play a regular season style that won't hold up late in the playoffs. the mavs were such a team before the rondo trade. i think he gives them a least a chance to go all the way. if anything sinks them, it won't be rondo, it will be their age and too many weak defenders.