Get Cousins NOW trade idea

[Celtics4ever]

Gerald Wallace, Avery Bradley (who I think the Kings like), Sully, and two firsts (Cleveland's and the Clipper's) for Cousins and Jason Thompson.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6558889

Thoughts?

This is such a fanciful proposal that it is not based in reality.   Losing must be so painful to you that you have constructed this as a rationalization for hope. No chance, we do not have the pieces.

[Geo123]

I think that there's no realistic chance of this going through.

Would you give up the best center in the NBA, who is 24 years old, for a below-average starting SG and two late #1s?  While also taking on a bad non-expiring contract?
[/quot




+1 Not a chance

[Smitty77]

Gerald Wallace, Avery Bradley (who I think the Kings like), Sully, and two firsts (Cleveland's and the Clipper's) for Cousins and Jason Thompson.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6558889

Thoughts?

This is such a fanciful proposal that it is not based in reality.   Losing must be so painful to you that you have constructed this as a rationalization for hope. No chance, we do not have the pieces.

I trust that losing is painful for ANY TRUE Celtics' fan!!!  If it is not, you are NOT a true fan!!!

There is NO ONE in the league with as many first rounders in the next few years as us.  I don't have to rationalize ANYTHING!!!  We have more trade exception dollars than probably anyone as well.  Sully and Oly and Bradley are nice young pieces and everyone BUT YOU seem to KNOW that.  We also have expirings to offer as well such as Bass who is a pro's pro that can help someone now and can likely be re-signed at a reasonable contract.

Smitty77

[greg683x]

Gerald Wallace, Avery Bradley (who I think the Kings like), Sully, and two firsts (Cleveland's and the Clipper's) for Cousins and Jason Thompson.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6558889

Thoughts?

This is such a fanciful proposal that it is not based in reality.   Losing must be so painful to you that you have constructed this as a rationalization for hope. No chance, we do not have the pieces.

I trust that losing is painful for ANY TRUE Celtics' fan!!!  If it is not, you are NOT a true fan!!!

There is NO ONE in the league with as many first rounders in the next few years as us.  I don't have to rationalize ANYTHING!!!  We have more trade exception dollars than probably anyone as well.  Sully and Oly and Bradley are nice young pieces and everyone BUT YOU seem to KNOW that.  We also have expirings to offer as well such as Bass who is a pro's pro that can help someone now and can likely be re-signed at a reasonable contract.

Smitty77

When it comes to getting a return for a franchise caliber player the rest of the league doesnt give a flying crap about these guys.

The TWolves turned their nose up at Sully and KO when we were trying to trade for Kevin Love.  Thats when Loves impending free agency was looming and Minnesotas hand was being forced.  DeMarcus Cousins is better, younger, and already signed long term.  We have little to no shot unless we land a top 3 pick

 

[Tr1boy]

It's going to take KO, Smart and 2 1st for Cousins.

I will pass

[tazzmaniac]

It's going to take KO, Smart and 2 1st for Cousins.

I will pass

That trade is a no brainer even if one of the 1sts is Okafor.  KO is just a role player of questionable quality.  Smart may develop into a solid starter but is unlikely to become a star.  You're getting a young, established, dominant center who is signed for three more years.  The rebuild would be greatly accelerated.  With a couple more moves, we could even be a contender next year.   

[crimson_stallion]

Gerald Wallace, Avery Bradley (who I think the Kings like), Sully, and two firsts (Cleveland's and the Clipper's) for Cousins and Jason Thompson.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6558889

Thoughts?

This is such a fanciful proposal that it is not based in reality.   Losing must be so painful to you that you have constructed this as a rationalization for hope. No chance, we do not have the pieces.

I trust that losing is painful for ANY TRUE Celtics' fan!!!  If it is not, you are NOT a true fan!!!

There is NO ONE in the league with as many first rounders in the next few years as us.  I don't have to rationalize ANYTHING!!!  We have more trade exception dollars than probably anyone as well.  Sully and Oly and Bradley are nice young pieces and everyone BUT YOU seem to KNOW that.  We also have expirings to offer as well such as Bass who is a pro's pro that can help someone now and can likely be re-signed at a reasonable contract.

Smitty77

Really?

To address those points...

1) Sully is an exteremly inconsistent player who is a fringe starter and has ultimately shown minimal upside.  He's now in his third year and his statistical production is practically identical to last year - solid numbers with the exception of a slight improvement in FG% and 3PT% (both of which are still pretty mediocre).  He has also shown after three seasons that he still isn't interested in getting in to NBA shape physically, and that he probably never will be.

2) Olynyk is certainly a talented player and probably has some upside, but this season he hasn't even been able to earn himself a consistent starting role on the 5th worst team in the league.  I think he is an attractive young piece for teams, but not attractive enough to actually get back anything of real value.  I feel trading Olynyk now would be selling low - I think he'll be a much better player (and more valuable asset) a year or two down the track.  Right now I don't think he's worth that much to other teams.

3) Bradley honestly has little value as a trade piece right now.  He's a solid player and could be a very nice addition for a playoff team, but even though he's still fairly young I think he has enough experience now to convince me that he's just about reached his peak in terms of the player he will become.  He's dropped off significantly compared to last season (scoring, FG%, 3PT%, Reb, Stl are all down), his defense doesn't seem quite what it was 2-3 seasons ago, he's a high injury risk, and his strongest selling from last season (the fact that he was on a rookie contract) is no longer.    Also he's had two seasons now to prove that he can shine as a senior player/leader on a not-so-good team, but he hasn't risen to the challenge.  His value is pretty much at an all time low now.

4) Bass is an ultimate pro and a very solid addition to any team with playoff/championship aspirations.  Sacramento aren't a playoff team now, and they certainly are not one if Cousins is traded out.  Adding Bass makes little sense fora a team in their position.

Ultimately if Boston wanted even the faintest hope of pulling off a deal like this they would need to go all in with something like:

* Marcus Smart
* Jared Sullinger
* Tyler Zeller
* Marcus Thornton (expiring)
* Brandon Bass or Tayshaun Prince (expiring)
* 2015 1st Round Pick (Celtics)
* 2016 1st Round Pick (Brooklyn)

Honestly, they'd probably still say no.

[crimson_stallion]

It's going to take KO, Smart and 2 1st for Cousins.

I will pass

Wow...really?

You value KO, Smart and two first round picks (even if you get the #1 pick, the draft is always a risk)  more than a guy who is probably the best center (and absolutely a top 10 player) in the NBA?

That is...interesting.

I seriously doubt Sacramento would come close to accepting that either.  If they did Danny should be promoted to GOD status. 

[Depalma2002]

Gerald Wallace, Avery Bradley (who I think the Kings like), Sully, and two firsts (Cleveland's and the Clipper's) for Cousins and Jason Thompson.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6558889

Thoughts?

This is such a fanciful proposal that it is not based in reality.   Losing must be so painful to you that you have constructed this as a rationalization for hope. No chance, we do not have the pieces.

I trust that losing is painful for ANY TRUE Celtics' fan!!!  If it is not, you are NOT a true fan!!!

There is NO ONE in the league with as many first rounders in the next few years as us.  I don't have to rationalize ANYTHING!!!  We have more trade exception dollars than probably anyone as well.  Sully and Oly and Bradley are nice young pieces and everyone BUT YOU seem to KNOW that.  We also have expirings to offer as well such as Bass who is a pro's pro that can help someone now and can likely be re-signed at a reasonable contract.

Smitty77

When trading for a franchise caliber players, teams aren't looking for "nice young pieces" and late first round picks. They need the possibility of at least some day replacing that franchise player. They need a young player that is more than "nice" and they need probable lottery picks.

Yes, the Celtics have more first round picks than anyone, but dip into some of the quality ones instead of trying to pawn off the late ones that are virtual second round ones while trying to hoard the prized ones. You need to sacrifice quality to get quality.

Smart, and two of the 2015 Bos, 2016 Bos, and 2016 BRK would probably be the START of a package to keep the Kings on the phone and talking.

Remember, they have Cousins under contract for 3+ more years. This is not a situation where Cousins is unhappy so they need to sell him for pennies on the dollar or risk having him walk in the offseason. The Kings have the franchise player AND the leverage. Cousins is not in the bargain bin. You are not going to get a franchise player with a couple of coupons and spare change.

[2short]

I don't think we have anything to get the discussion started.  The goal is to get a guy like Cousins and build from there.  A bunch of odds and ends for Cousins would be a huge setback for the Kings and would start their rebuilding from scratch again.

yes BUT i'd like ainge to throw a lot at sac and see if they flinch
and no one on our current roster matters when going after a young big like him

[Roy H.]

It's going to take KO, Smart and 2 1st for Cousins.

I will pass

I would do that trade in a second, but I don't think it would be on the table unless Boogie just absolutely boycotted Kings games.

[Roy H.]

Boogie with the unreal handles (vine)

[Smitty77]

Gerald Wallace, Avery Bradley (who I think the Kings like), Sully, and two firsts (Cleveland's and the Clipper's) for Cousins and Jason Thompson.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6558889

Thoughts?

This is such a fanciful proposal that it is not based in reality.   Losing must be so painful to you that you have constructed this as a rationalization for hope. No chance, we do not have the pieces.

I trust that losing is painful for ANY TRUE Celtics' fan!!!  If it is not, you are NOT a true fan!!!

There is NO ONE in the league with as many first rounders in the next few years as us.  I don't have to rationalize ANYTHING!!!  We have more trade exception dollars than probably anyone as well.  Sully and Oly and Bradley are nice young pieces and everyone BUT YOU seem to KNOW that.  We also have expirings to offer as well such as Bass who is a pro's pro that can help someone now and can likely be re-signed at a reasonable contract.

Smitty77

Really?

To address those points...

1) Sully is an exteremly inconsistent player who is a fringe starter and has ultimately shown minimal upside.  He's now in his third year and his statistical production is practically identical to last year - solid numbers with the exception of a slight improvement in FG% and 3PT% (both of which are still pretty mediocre).  He has also shown after three seasons that he still isn't interested in getting in to NBA shape physically, and that he probably never will be.

2) Olynyk is certainly a talented player and probably has some upside, but this season he hasn't even been able to earn himself a consistent starting role on the 5th worst team in the league.  I think he is an attractive young piece for teams, but not attractive enough to actually get back anything of real value.  I feel trading Olynyk now would be selling low - I think he'll be a much better player (and more valuable asset) a year or two down the track.  Right now I don't think he's worth that much to other teams.

3) Bradley honestly has little value as a trade piece right now.  He's a solid player and could be a very nice addition for a playoff team, but even though he's still fairly young I think he has enough experience now to convince me that he's just about reached his peak in terms of the player he will become.  He's dropped off significantly compared to last season (scoring, FG%, 3PT%, Reb, Stl are all down), his defense doesn't seem quite what it was 2-3 seasons ago, he's a high injury risk, and his strongest selling from last season (the fact that he was on a rookie contract) is no longer.    Also he's had two seasons now to prove that he can shine as a senior player/leader on a not-so-good team, but he hasn't risen to the challenge.  His value is pretty much at an all time low now.

4) Bass is an ultimate pro and a very solid addition to any team with playoff/championship aspirations.  Sacramento aren't a playoff team now, and they certainly are not one if Cousins is traded out.  Adding Bass makes little sense fora a team in their position.

Ultimately if Boston wanted even the faintest hope of pulling off a deal like this they would need to go all in with something like:

* Marcus Smart
* Jared Sullinger
* Tyler Zeller
* Marcus Thornton (expiring)
* Brandon Bass or Tayshaun Prince (expiring)
* 2015 1st Round Pick (Celtics)
* 2016 1st Round Pick (Brooklyn)

Honestly, they'd probably still say no.

Point#1.  Sully's three point % has gone from 20% in year one to 26.9% in year two to 32.1% in year three.  His overall FG% has gone from 42.7% to 44.8% this years.  The three point increases are simply NOT SLIGHT!!!  He is showing a very steady and statistically improvement EVERY year from long range.  That is HUGE in today's NBA game!!!!

Point #2.  Olynyk HAS started 13 games this season.

Point #3.  Bradley has NOT been allowed to be a one-man press in almost three years.  He can still do that better than ANYONE else in the league, period.  He has just not been asked to do this for whatever asanine reason.

Point #4.  EVERY team NEEDS a PRO like Bass, no matter how much they are winning.  He helps to develop a WINNING CULTURE.

Smitty77

[jambr380]

Gerald Wallace, Avery Bradley (who I think the Kings like), Sully, and two firsts (Cleveland's and the Clipper's) for Cousins and Jason Thompson.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6558889

Thoughts?

This is such a fanciful proposal that it is not based in reality.   Losing must be so painful to you that you have constructed this as a rationalization for hope. No chance, we do not have the pieces.

I trust that losing is painful for ANY TRUE Celtics' fan!!!  If it is not, you are NOT a true fan!!!

There is NO ONE in the league with as many first rounders in the next few years as us.  I don't have to rationalize ANYTHING!!!  We have more trade exception dollars than probably anyone as well.  Sully and Oly and Bradley are nice young pieces and everyone BUT YOU seem to KNOW that.  We also have expirings to offer as well such as Bass who is a pro's pro that can help someone now and can likely be re-signed at a reasonable contract.

Smitty77

When trading for a franchise caliber players, teams aren't looking for "nice young pieces" and late first round picks. They need the possibility of at least some day replacing that franchise player. They need a young player that is more than "nice" and they need probable lottery picks.

Yes, the Celtics have more first round picks than anyone, but dip into some of the quality ones instead of trying to pawn off the late ones that are virtual second round ones while trying to hoard the prized ones. You need to sacrifice quality to get quality.

Smart, and two of the 2015 Bos, 2016 Bos, and 2016 BRK would probably be the START of a package to keep the Kings on the phone and talking.

Remember, they have Cousins under contract for 3+ more years. This is not a situation where Cousins is unhappy so they need to sell him for pennies on the dollar or risk having him walk in the offseason. The Kings have the franchise player AND the leverage. Cousins is not in the bargain bin. You are not going to get a franchise player with a couple of coupons and spare change.

I realize the price for Cousins would be high, but 4 projected lottery picks (including Smart) plus an additional first might be the most any team ever gave up for any player. I think if you dial it back a little bit, the starting point might be something like our 2015 first and the 2016 BKN first along with other young pieces not named Smart or Young. An additional late first or the Minny 2nds may come into play for negotiation points.

I am in agreement with you that you can't just give up late firsts and early 2nds and hope to get back a superstar...but, even still, Demarcus is not yet a superstar.

[PickNRoll]

Cousins is a superstar.  He's the best center in the league.  If you listen to the Kings bloggers, there is literally no combination of Celtics assets that would be enough.  Vivek might be a little more rational, but I think the only way they move him is if he quits on management.