Author Topic: #DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)  (Read 594008 times)

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2865 on: September 04, 2015, 04:22:03 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The nfl will never fire goodell. They love him. Even kraft will forgive him. Even if you are horrible at your job and are the worst team in the nfl you will make tons of money as a nfl owner. Also the owners love that all the criticism goes to goodell and the criticism results in no lost money. We don't even know who most of the nfl owners are, when we criticize the nfl it's goodell we criticize and think of, not some owner we have never seen before, and the owners love it that way.
yeah but the criticism of late has been the direct result of Goddell's actions and his bungling of some high profile cases. 
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2866 on: September 04, 2015, 04:26:00 PM »

Offline Forza Juventus

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The nfl will never fire goodell. They love him. Even kraft will forgive him. Even if you are horrible at your job and are the worst team in the nfl you will make tons of money as a nfl owner. Also the owners love that all the criticism goes to goodell and the criticism results in no lost money. We don't even know who most of the nfl owners are, when we criticize the nfl it's goodell we criticize and think of, not some owner we have never seen before, and the owners love it that way.
yeah but the criticism of late has been the direct result of Goddell's actions and his bungling of some high profile cases.

The owners run goodell, I'm sure they were calling the shots, and he gets all the criticism
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2867 on: September 04, 2015, 05:40:24 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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A) The NFL isn't a progressive institution in any sense of the word. Their prime prerogative is to keep people from talking about the fact that the sport itself leaves its players maimed mentally and physically. If you're not talking about that, then they're fine. The worst thing coming down the pipeline in the future would be something that definitively links football to CTE. Anything else is secondary in concern -- they actually dont care about players beating up women: that's why Greg Hardy is serving 4 games, because there's no footage out there. Back to Ray Rice, because he's such a good example, he sold a lot of jerseys after he was booted, because people are stupid.
You mean the medical conclusions from the autopsies of one active and several former players weren't enough?!

I think it's going to play out similarly to tobacco companies and lung cancer -- but as soon as there's no doubt, the game is going to be impossible to insure at the Pop Warner/youth level, which will reallocate those athletes into other sports, which will cripple the game overall.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2868 on: September 04, 2015, 05:52:48 PM »

Offline Forza Juventus

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A) The NFL isn't a progressive institution in any sense of the word. Their prime prerogative is to keep people from talking about the fact that the sport itself leaves its players maimed mentally and physically. If you're not talking about that, then they're fine. The worst thing coming down the pipeline in the future would be something that definitively links football to CTE. Anything else is secondary in concern -- they actually dont care about players beating up women: that's why Greg Hardy is serving 4 games, because there's no footage out there. Back to Ray Rice, because he's such a good example, he sold a lot of jerseys after he was booted, because people are stupid.
You mean the medical conclusions from the autopsies of one active and several former players weren't enough?!

I think it's going to play out similarly to tobacco companies and lung cancer -- but as soon as there's no doubt, the game is going to be impossible to insure at the Pop Warner/youth level, which will reallocate those athletes into other sports, which will cripple the game overall.

I can't wait until the nfl crumbles.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2869 on: September 04, 2015, 08:53:43 PM »

Offline footey

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NFL should have never targeted Brady with so little evidence of involvement. If Goodell would have looked at things independently letting all statements and testimony be viewed in a fairly manner he would have dropped the suspension himself in the apeal. Clearly Goodell had sided with the bad investigation and didn't give Brady's legal team a fair chance to prove innocence or doubt. It's one thing to let owners gang up on another owner on little proof because all they had to state is balls were under and your staff took balls where they weren't supposed to, gas law or not you are punished. They have no proof of actual wrong doing by Brady himself except a failure to provide phone texts which proves nothing in terms on involvement.

The punishment was almost certainly born out of Brady's alleged failure to cooperate, rather than his wrongdoing.
Which is why from the beginning Brady could have made this whole thing go away if he had said something like

"It is true that I prefer the footballs to be less inflated, but I have never directed anyone to have the footballs at any level that is not within the legal confines.  If the footballs were lower than the legal limit, it was not my intent and I apologize if my preference for lower (but legal) inflated balls in any way contributed to the footballs being below the legal limits in the Colts game.  I will cooperate fully with any NFL investigation into this issue."

You know and then he actually need to cooperate fully.

Goes away with a fine.  The problem is the that is not the Patriot way.

Naive to think that is all he had to say to make this go away.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2870 on: September 04, 2015, 09:59:15 PM »

Offline Cman

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The nfl will never fire goodell. They love him. Even kraft will forgive him. Even if you are horrible at your job and are the worst team in the nfl you will make tons of money as a nfl owner. Also the owners love that all the criticism goes to goodell and the criticism results in no lost money. We don't even know who most of the nfl owners are, when we criticize the nfl it's goodell we criticize and think of, not some owner we have never seen before, and the owners love it that way.
yeah but the criticism of late has been the direct result of Goddell's actions and his bungling of some high profile cases.

The owners run goodell, I'm sure they were calling the shots, and he gets all the criticism

The owners don't love him so much as they are stuck with him at this point. I think SI had an article today that cited a $150M buyout clause in Goodells contract. So, he's not going anywhere.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2871 on: September 05, 2015, 04:32:27 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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150 million is not that big of deal in the NFL. It's about 3 years of his salary. If they want to get rid of him that won't stop them.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2872 on: September 05, 2015, 06:32:32 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I'd love to have seen the negotiation between Goodell and the NFL owners.  They offer 40 million a year and he insists on a multi-year deal with a 150M buyout clause.
Now if the NFL had said "sorry, just 1 year at a time" or " no buyout", goodell would have turned down the $40M? He had a better offer elsewhere?

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2873 on: September 05, 2015, 12:21:02 PM »

Offline elcotte

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That is an apples to chainsaws comparison, and I never said that Goodell was doing the best he can. I would suggest rereading my posts if that is the conclusion you drew from them.

I get it.  But what's the point of going into the nuances of it all when clearly the NFL could do better? 

We're not talking about a toll collector here where the standard might be that "he's not bad."  We're talking about the leader of the most popular sport in America.  If there are better people out there for the job, he should be canned regardless of mitigating factors.

You keep saying that there are better people out there for the job, but I remain unconvinced that in the present there is anyone more suited to the owner's purposes than Goodell. That's the disagreement, not that there wouldn't be better candidates in regards to merit or resume.

I think that what you guys are saying has a lot of merit in a vacuum, but I don't think the ownership is going to look that far into the future because, frankly, I don't think many of them are smart enough to do so/are too old to really care. You would need to see a few more owners that are Jed York's age before anything substantial shifted.

What is the benefit to the owners right now with respect to Deflategate?
There isn't any.
I think it's crazy to sit here and try to defend Goodell's course of action in this.
If he was truly a qualified commissioner he would have told the owners that this case is not the one to go to the wall on. His value to the owners is greater if he is able to offer wise judgement for situations like this and to orchestrate a better outcome for the NFL. This means that he needs to be his own man in the face of pressure from some of the owners.
To sit there and try to defend him as he's doing his job being a punching bag is, in my opinion, crazy.


Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2874 on: September 05, 2015, 12:32:30 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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That is an apples to chainsaws comparison, and I never said that Goodell was doing the best he can. I would suggest rereading my posts if that is the conclusion you drew from them.

I get it.  But what's the point of going into the nuances of it all when clearly the NFL could do better? 

We're not talking about a toll collector here where the standard might be that "he's not bad."  We're talking about the leader of the most popular sport in America.  If there are better people out there for the job, he should be canned regardless of mitigating factors.

You keep saying that there are better people out there for the job, but I remain unconvinced that in the present there is anyone more suited to the owner's purposes than Goodell. That's the disagreement, not that there wouldn't be better candidates in regards to merit or resume.

I think that what you guys are saying has a lot of merit in a vacuum, but I don't think the ownership is going to look that far into the future because, frankly, I don't think many of them are smart enough to do so/are too old to really care. You would need to see a few more owners that are Jed York's age before anything substantial shifted.

What is the benefit to the owners right now with respect to Deflategate?
There isn't any.
I think it's crazy to sit here and try to defend Goodell's course of action in this.
If he was truly a qualified commissioner he would have told the owners that this case is not the one to go to the wall on. His value to the owners is greater if he is able to offer wise judgement for situations like this and to orchestrate a better outcome for the NFL. This means that he needs to be his own man in the face of pressure from some of the owners.
To sit there and try to defend him as he's doing his job being a punching bag is, in my opinion, crazy.

The benefit has already been successfully accomplished. The NFL has totally distracted the media and fans from the real issues of domestic abuse and brain injuries , actually has managed to make most people forget about those issues. A complete win from their perspective.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2875 on: September 05, 2015, 12:41:31 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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That is an apples to chainsaws comparison, and I never said that Goodell was doing the best he can. I would suggest rereading my posts if that is the conclusion you drew from them.

I get it.  But what's the point of going into the nuances of it all when clearly the NFL could do better? 

We're not talking about a toll collector here where the standard might be that "he's not bad."  We're talking about the leader of the most popular sport in America.  If there are better people out there for the job, he should be canned regardless of mitigating factors.

You keep saying that there are better people out there for the job, but I remain unconvinced that in the present there is anyone more suited to the owner's purposes than Goodell. That's the disagreement, not that there wouldn't be better candidates in regards to merit or resume.

I think that what you guys are saying has a lot of merit in a vacuum, but I don't think the ownership is going to look that far into the future because, frankly, I don't think many of them are smart enough to do so/are too old to really care. You would need to see a few more owners that are Jed York's age before anything substantial shifted.

What is the benefit to the owners right now with respect to Deflategate?
There isn't any.
I think it's crazy to sit here and try to defend Goodell's course of action in this.
If he was truly a qualified commissioner he would have told the owners that this case is not the one to go to the wall on. His value to the owners is greater if he is able to offer wise judgement for situations like this and to orchestrate a better outcome for the NFL. This means that he needs to be his own man in the face of pressure from some of the owners.
To sit there and try to defend him as he's doing his job being a punching bag is, in my opinion, crazy.

The benefit has already been successfully accomplished. The NFL has totally distracted the media and fans from the real issues of domestic abuse and brain injuries , actually has managed to make most people forget about those issues. A complete win from their perspective.

Considering that Brady's harsh punishment has brought back how Goodell mishandled those situations, I don't think that's really accurate. He could've accomplished this same thing, and to a better degree, if he hadn't gone after Brady. Focus on the punishment for the Patriots and move on would've been the correct call from that perspective.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2876 on: September 08, 2015, 09:29:25 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Looks like the NFL is now using ESPN (again).  This time to leak "new" info regarding Spygate.  Seems like the league is smarting from losing the Deflategate case.  Ugh...  this stuff will never end. 

From PFT:

Quote
Report: Patriots’ Spygate cheating was widespread over many years

Posted by Michael David Smith on September 8, 2015, 9:16 AM EDT

Just days after Tom Brady’s Deflategate suspension was overturned, new attention is being given on the earlier Patriots cheating scandal, known as Spygate.

An ESPN Outside the Lines report, citing interviews with more than 90 sources around the NFL, says that the Spygate cheating lasted “at least 40 games over a period of several seasons from 2000 to 2007,” and that the league never fully investigated all the accusations against the team.

According to the report, the taping of opponents’ signals reached the point where the Patriots had diagrams of the stolen signals that they could use during games.

The report also says that other teams were much more upset about the Patriots’ cheating than they let on, because NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell convinced the rest of the league not to press the issue. Former Rams coach Mike Martz, whose team lost to the Patriots in Belichick’s first Super Bowl, said he was pressured by a “panicked” Goodell to issue a statement saying he was satisfied by the league’s investigation of the Patriots. Martz said he agreed to go along with Goodell’s request to issue a statement backing the league not because he was completely satisfied by the investigation, but because Goodell convinced Martz that a prolonged scandal could badly damage the league.

Anyone who thought the Deflategate ruling was going to end any talk of the Patriots cheating is sorely mistaken. Both Deflategate and Spygate are stories that will have legs.


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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2877 on: September 08, 2015, 09:47:03 AM »

Offline footey

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Wow, I just saw that.  Unbelievable.  Way to go, NFL-ESPN.  Ask Bill Cowler his thoughts. He laughs about Spy Gate. Says that every team was video taping and stealing hand signals. Ever team.  Why do we see the coordinators cover their lips when barking out plays??  Yet not one word of this fact from the "breaking" ESPN story.  This is pathetic. I really doubt Goodell is behind this story, though, because it makes him look bad, like a shill for the Pats back then.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2878 on: September 08, 2015, 09:50:23 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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So the NFL...cough...I mean ESPN is really going to dredge up something from 8 years ago that the organization was punished for?

Oh, and it comes up less than a week since the NFL got defeated in court involving a member from that same team in a different high profile controversy?  C'mon.......

This just reeks of trying to save face or, even worse, a simple smear job.  :P


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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2879 on: September 08, 2015, 09:58:32 AM »

Offline Moranis

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So the NFL...cough...I mean ESPN is really going to dredge up something from 8 years ago that the organization was punished for?

Oh, and it comes up less than a week since the NFL got defeated in court involving a member from that same team in a different high profile controversy?  C'mon.......

This just reeks of trying to save face or, even worse, a simple smear job.  :P
No question it does that, but it also might answer the question as to why the NFL came down so hard on the Patriots for some deflated footballs.  I mean that is a pretty common theme throughout this thread, why punish the Patriots so harshly for something that other teams get a slap on the wrist for?  Well now you have your answer, those other teams weren't undergoing widespread cheating for years.

The Patriots have always played fast and loose with the rules, so any rule violation, no matter how minor, is going to be looked at differently with the Patriots than any other organization.  It is the whole live by the sword die by the sword mentality.  when you skirt the line, you had better [dang] well make sure you don't cross it. 
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