Author Topic: #DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)  (Read 596230 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2850 on: September 04, 2015, 12:18:16 PM »

Offline Jon

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6499
  • Tommy Points: 385

I'm still not onboard with the fire Goodell thinking, by the way (even though I agree that he's an idiot). Anyone care to convince me?

Do you agree there are probably any number of people who could do a better job?

Seems like a good reason to fire a dude making tens of millions of dollars a year to me.

Do a better job at what, though? As a commissioner, or as the guy who can totally and utterly screw up everything without alienating the fanbase or painting his bosses (the owners) as hideous and terrible people because he can sincerely claim that he's trying to protect the integrity of the shield?

Goodell wasn't the reason you could still buy women's Ray Rice shirts weeks after the video leaked, but Goodell is the one guy shouldering all the blame for how the league handled that situation and he didn't so much as bat an eye. There's an immense value in that for the NFL, which is reflected in his salary.

OK, I think I can agree that Goodell is probably as good as anybody at being a public relations punching bag.  He's a magician, in that sense -- pay attention to this stuff I'm doing very noticeably over here so that you don't focus on all of the stuff going on behind me.

If you think the commissioner could play a different, more positive, progressive role -- define that however you like -- then I think there are probably better options out there.

Exactly.  And there's plenty of other people out there who could be equally good punching bags but get the league into far fewer situations where they would need to be the punching bag. 

I think that's what people are overlooking--yes Goodell can take bullets for the league, but he also gets them into these situations to begin with.  The owners would be far better off if they could find someone who could make these situations go away before they even start. 

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2851 on: September 04, 2015, 12:32:41 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
A) The NFL isn't a progressive institution in any sense of the word. Their prime prerogative is to keep people from talking about the fact that the sport itself leaves its players maimed mentally and physically. If you're not talking about that, then they're fine. The worst thing coming down the pipeline in the future would be something that definitively links football to CTE. Anything else is secondary in concern -- they actually dont care about players beating up women: that's why Greg Hardy is serving 4 games, because there's no footage out there. Back to Ray Rice, because he's such a good example, he sold a lot of jerseys after he was booted, because people are stupid.


B) The NFL has, far and away, the least sophisticated fan base in all of professional sports. It is one of the largest, and it is one of the most diverse, but it is not interested in nuance and thoughtfulness. And if you don't believe me I have roughly 75 thousand light beers and a whole bunch of Ford F150's to sell you.

C) Goodell doesn't create these situations, and up until deflategate you could argue that he was hamhanded but never in the wrong ethically -- take your pick, but he's going up against a guy who knocked out his wife, a guy who beat his kids, or people paying other people to actively injure players. Did he screw up all of those? Yes, but the idea that these people shouldn't have been punished is not part of the equation, because of course they should have.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2852 on: September 04, 2015, 12:41:36 PM »

Offline Jon

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6499
  • Tommy Points: 385
A) The NFL isn't a progressive institution in any sense of the word. Their prime prerogative is to keep people from talking about the fact that the sport itself leaves its players maimed mentally and physically. If you're not talking about that, then they're fine. The worst thing coming down the pipeline in the future would be something that definitively links football to CTE. Anything else is secondary in concern -- they actually dont care about players beating up women: that's why Greg Hardy is serving 4 games, because there's no footage out there. Back to Ray Rice, because he's such a good example, he sold a lot of jerseys after he was booted, because people are stupid.


B) The NFL has, far and away, the least sophisticated fan base in all of professional sports. It is one of the largest, and it is one of the most diverse, but it is not interested in nuance and thoughtfulness. And if you don't believe me I have roughly 75 thousand light beers and a whole bunch of Ford F150's to sell you.

C) Goodell doesn't create these situations, and up until deflategate you could argue that he was hamhanded but never in the wrong ethically -- take your pick, but he's going up against a guy who knocked out his wife, a guy who beat his kids, or people paying other people to actively injure players. Did he screw up all of those? Yes, but the idea that these people shouldn't have been punished is not part of the equation, because of course they should have.

But look at what Adam Silver did with the whole Donald Sterling fiasco.  He had handled quickly, efficiently, and appropriately.  So this notion that Goodell is "doing the best he can" I think is a bunch of crap.  If Adam Silver or David Stern were running the NFL, they'd do a much better job. 

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2853 on: September 04, 2015, 12:42:59 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
That is an apples to chainsaws comparison, and I never said that Goodell was doing the best he can. I would suggest rereading my posts if that is the conclusion you drew from them.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2854 on: September 04, 2015, 12:56:51 PM »

Offline Jon

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6499
  • Tommy Points: 385
That is an apples to chainsaws comparison, and I never said that Goodell was doing the best he can. I would suggest rereading my posts if that is the conclusion you drew from them.

I get it.  But what's the point of going into the nuances of it all when clearly the NFL could do better? 

We're not talking about a toll collector here where the standard might be that "he's not bad."  We're talking about the leader of the most popular sport in America.  If there are better people out there for the job, he should be canned regardless of mitigating factors. 

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2855 on: September 04, 2015, 01:02:10 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
A) The NFL isn't a progressive institution in any sense of the word. Their prime prerogative is to keep people from talking about the fact that the sport itself leaves its players maimed mentally and physically. If you're not talking about that, then they're fine. The worst thing coming down the pipeline in the future would be something that definitively links football to CTE. Anything else is secondary in concern -- they actually dont care about players beating up women: that's why Greg Hardy is serving 4 games, because there's no footage out there. Back to Ray Rice, because he's such a good example, he sold a lot of jerseys after he was booted, because people are stupid.


B) The NFL has, far and away, the least sophisticated fan base in all of professional sports. It is one of the largest, and it is one of the most diverse, but it is not interested in nuance and thoughtfulness. And if you don't believe me I have roughly 75 thousand light beers and a whole bunch of Ford F150's to sell you.

I think you're 100% right. 

That doesn't mean I think a better commissioner couldn't choose to be a leader for the sport and try to push to take the sport in a more positive direction.  Why would the owners want such a commissioner?  For the long term health of the league. 

I think maintaining the status quo is great for the NFL while the league continues to print money in the present, but I think the background stuff will catch up to them eventually and force them to address the very serious issues that the league has with racism, misogyny, violence, and CTE.


A commissioner like that would have to be backed by a mandate from ownership to drastically change the culture of how the league manages its image and its business, of course.  So it won't happen anytime soon.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2856 on: September 04, 2015, 01:07:17 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
That is an apples to chainsaws comparison, and I never said that Goodell was doing the best he can. I would suggest rereading my posts if that is the conclusion you drew from them.

I get it.  But what's the point of going into the nuances of it all when clearly the NFL could do better? 

We're not talking about a toll collector here where the standard might be that "he's not bad."  We're talking about the leader of the most popular sport in America.  If there are better people out there for the job, he should be canned regardless of mitigating factors.

You keep saying that there are better people out there for the job, but I remain unconvinced that in the present there is anyone more suited to the owner's purposes than Goodell. That's the disagreement, not that there wouldn't be better candidates in regards to merit or resume.

I think that what you guys are saying has a lot of merit in a vacuum, but I don't think the ownership is going to look that far into the future because, frankly, I don't think many of them are smart enough to do so/are too old to really care. You would need to see a few more owners that are Jed York's age before anything substantial shifted.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2857 on: September 04, 2015, 01:17:43 PM »

Offline Jon

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6499
  • Tommy Points: 385
That is an apples to chainsaws comparison, and I never said that Goodell was doing the best he can. I would suggest rereading my posts if that is the conclusion you drew from them.

I get it.  But what's the point of going into the nuances of it all when clearly the NFL could do better? 

We're not talking about a toll collector here where the standard might be that "he's not bad."  We're talking about the leader of the most popular sport in America.  If there are better people out there for the job, he should be canned regardless of mitigating factors.

You keep saying that there are better people out there for the job, but I remain unconvinced that in the present there is anyone more suited to the owner's purposes than Goodell. That's the disagreement, not that there wouldn't be better candidates in regards to merit or resume.

I think that what you guys are saying has a lot of merit in a vacuum, but I don't think the ownership is going to look that far into the future because, frankly, I don't think many of them are smart enough to do so/are too old to really care. You would need to see a few more owners that are Jed York's age before anything substantial shifted.

But what does Goodell that is so good for the league? 

Get good TV deals?  Any high end business person could do that given the popularity of the NFL. 

Take bullets for the league?  Anyone offered what Goodell is getting paid could do that.

I'm not saying that the league is going to have a culture change.  I'm saying that even if the NFL wants to continue to go on crazy witch hunts and mismanage things, there are people out there that could do a better job than Goodell.  As much as a witch hunt as this has been with Brady, Goodell could have still won had he not botched literally every step along the way. 

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2858 on: September 04, 2015, 01:34:03 PM »

Online Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30933
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • What a Pub Should Be
That is an apples to chainsaws comparison, and I never said that Goodell was doing the best he can. I would suggest rereading my posts if that is the conclusion you drew from them.

I get it.  But what's the point of going into the nuances of it all when clearly the NFL could do better? 

We're not talking about a toll collector here where the standard might be that "he's not bad."  We're talking about the leader of the most popular sport in America.  If there are better people out there for the job, he should be canned regardless of mitigating factors.

You keep saying that there are better people out there for the job, but I remain unconvinced that in the present there is anyone more suited to the owner's purposes than Goodell. That's the disagreement, not that there wouldn't be better candidates in regards to merit or resume.

I think that what you guys are saying has a lot of merit in a vacuum, but I don't think the ownership is going to look that far into the future because, frankly, I don't think many of them are smart enough to do so/are too old to really care. You would need to see a few more owners that are Jed York's age before anything substantial shifted.

But what does Goodell that is so good for the league? 

Get good TV deals?  Any high end business person could do that given the popularity of the NFL. 

Take bullets for the league?  Anyone offered what Goodell is getting paid could do that.

I'm not saying that the league is going to have a culture change.  I'm saying that even if the NFL wants to continue to go on crazy witch hunts and mismanage things, there are people out there that could do a better job than Goodell.  As much as a witch hunt as this has been with Brady, Goodell could have still won had he not botched literally every step along the way.

Just because they are, it doesn't mean the league is going to do anything about it.

It's the most popular sport in the country...by a mile.  It's printing money hand over fist right now and even these debacles don't seem to be putting a dent in television ratings.  Sure, the public perception of the league isn't pretty right now but its not exactly doing anything, on a tangible basis, yet to hurt them.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2859 on: September 04, 2015, 01:35:19 PM »

Offline Evantime34

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11942
  • Tommy Points: 764
  • Eagerly Awaiting the Next Fantasy Draft
A) The NFL isn't a progressive institution in any sense of the word. Their prime prerogative is to keep people from talking about the fact that the sport itself leaves its players maimed mentally and physically. If you're not talking about that, then they're fine. The worst thing coming down the pipeline in the future would be something that definitively links football to CTE. Anything else is secondary in concern -- they actually dont care about players beating up women: that's why Greg Hardy is serving 4 games, because there's no footage out there. Back to Ray Rice, because he's such a good example, he sold a lot of jerseys after he was booted, because people are stupid.


B) The NFL has, far and away, the least sophisticated fan base in all of professional sports. It is one of the largest, and it is one of the most diverse, but it is not interested in nuance and thoughtfulness. And if you don't believe me I have roughly 75 thousand light beers and a whole bunch of Ford F150's to sell you.

C) Goodell doesn't create these situations, and up until deflategate you could argue that he was hamhanded but never in the wrong ethically -- take your pick, but he's going up against a guy who knocked out his wife, a guy who beat his kids, or people paying other people to actively injure players. Did he screw up all of those? Yes, but the idea that these people shouldn't have been punished is not part of the equation, because of course they should have.
Agree with everything here, although I would say Hockey fans are worse than football fans in terms of sophistication
DKC:  Rockets
CB Draft: Memphis Grizz
Players: Klay Thompson, Jabari Parker, Aaron Gordon
Next 3 picks: 4.14, 4.15, 4.19

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2860 on: September 04, 2015, 01:37:47 PM »

Offline Jon

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6499
  • Tommy Points: 385
That is an apples to chainsaws comparison, and I never said that Goodell was doing the best he can. I would suggest rereading my posts if that is the conclusion you drew from them.

I get it.  But what's the point of going into the nuances of it all when clearly the NFL could do better? 

We're not talking about a toll collector here where the standard might be that "he's not bad."  We're talking about the leader of the most popular sport in America.  If there are better people out there for the job, he should be canned regardless of mitigating factors.

You keep saying that there are better people out there for the job, but I remain unconvinced that in the present there is anyone more suited to the owner's purposes than Goodell. That's the disagreement, not that there wouldn't be better candidates in regards to merit or resume.

I think that what you guys are saying has a lot of merit in a vacuum, but I don't think the ownership is going to look that far into the future because, frankly, I don't think many of them are smart enough to do so/are too old to really care. You would need to see a few more owners that are Jed York's age before anything substantial shifted.

But what does Goodell that is so good for the league? 

Get good TV deals?  Any high end business person could do that given the popularity of the NFL. 

Take bullets for the league?  Anyone offered what Goodell is getting paid could do that.

I'm not saying that the league is going to have a culture change.  I'm saying that even if the NFL wants to continue to go on crazy witch hunts and mismanage things, there are people out there that could do a better job than Goodell.  As much as a witch hunt as this has been with Brady, Goodell could have still won had he not botched literally every step along the way.

Just because they are, it doesn't mean the league is going to do anything about it.

It's the most popular sport in the country...by a mile.  It's printing money hand over fist right now and even these debacles don't seem to be putting a dent in television ratings.  Sure, the public perception of the league isn't pretty right now but its not exactly doing anything, on a tangible basis, yet to hurt them.

I get it all.  But as I said, I'm not even talking about a better commissioner from some sort of pie in the sky, rose-tinted, Utopian perspective.  I'm saying that even if the owners just wanted some lackey to take bullets and orders for them and leave the league a moral mess, they could find someone better than Goodell at doing that. 

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2861 on: September 04, 2015, 01:39:29 PM »

Online Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30933
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • What a Pub Should Be
That is an apples to chainsaws comparison, and I never said that Goodell was doing the best he can. I would suggest rereading my posts if that is the conclusion you drew from them.

I get it.  But what's the point of going into the nuances of it all when clearly the NFL could do better? 

We're not talking about a toll collector here where the standard might be that "he's not bad."  We're talking about the leader of the most popular sport in America.  If there are better people out there for the job, he should be canned regardless of mitigating factors.

You keep saying that there are better people out there for the job, but I remain unconvinced that in the present there is anyone more suited to the owner's purposes than Goodell. That's the disagreement, not that there wouldn't be better candidates in regards to merit or resume.

I think that what you guys are saying has a lot of merit in a vacuum, but I don't think the ownership is going to look that far into the future because, frankly, I don't think many of them are smart enough to do so/are too old to really care. You would need to see a few more owners that are Jed York's age before anything substantial shifted.

But what does Goodell that is so good for the league? 

Get good TV deals?  Any high end business person could do that given the popularity of the NFL. 

Take bullets for the league?  Anyone offered what Goodell is getting paid could do that.

I'm not saying that the league is going to have a culture change.  I'm saying that even if the NFL wants to continue to go on crazy witch hunts and mismanage things, there are people out there that could do a better job than Goodell.  As much as a witch hunt as this has been with Brady, Goodell could have still won had he not botched literally every step along the way.

Just because they are, it doesn't mean the league is going to do anything about it.

It's the most popular sport in the country...by a mile.  It's printing money hand over fist right now and even these debacles don't seem to be putting a dent in television ratings.  Sure, the public perception of the league isn't pretty right now but its not exactly doing anything, on a tangible basis, yet to hurt them.

I get it all.  But as I said, I'm not even talking about a better commissioner from some sort of pie in the sky, rose-tinted, Utopian perspective.  I'm saying that even if the owners just wanted some lackey to take bullets and orders for them and leave the league a moral mess, they could find someone better than Goodell at doing that.

And I get that.  But it doesn't mean that the owners are going to listen to you (or much of the greater public) and do a [dang] thing about it.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2862 on: September 04, 2015, 02:07:02 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
A) The NFL isn't a progressive institution in any sense of the word. Their prime prerogative is to keep people from talking about the fact that the sport itself leaves its players maimed mentally and physically. If you're not talking about that, then they're fine. The worst thing coming down the pipeline in the future would be something that definitively links football to CTE. Anything else is secondary in concern -- they actually dont care about players beating up women: that's why Greg Hardy is serving 4 games, because there's no footage out there. Back to Ray Rice, because he's such a good example, he sold a lot of jerseys after he was booted, because people are stupid.
You mean the medical conclusions from the autopsies of one active and several former players weren't enough?!
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2863 on: September 04, 2015, 03:37:37 PM »

Offline elcotte

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 438
  • Tommy Points: 52
NFL should have never targeted Brady with so little evidence of involvement. If Goodell would have looked at things independently letting all statements and testimony be viewed in a fairly manner he would have dropped the suspension himself in the apeal. Clearly Goodell had sided with the bad investigation and didn't give Brady's legal team a fair chance to prove innocence or doubt. It's one thing to let owners gang up on another owner on little proof because all they had to state is balls were under and your staff took balls where they weren't supposed to, gas law or not you are punished. They have no proof of actual wrong doing by Brady himself except a failure to provide phone texts which proves nothing in terms on involvement.

The punishment was almost certainly born out of Brady's alleged failure to cooperate, rather than his wrongdoing.
Which is why from the beginning Brady could have made this whole thing go away if he had said something like

"It is true that I prefer the footballs to be less inflated, but I have never directed anyone to have the footballs at any level that is not within the legal confines.  If the footballs were lower than the legal limit, it was not my intent and I apologize if my preference for lower (but legal) inflated balls in any way contributed to the footballs being below the legal limits in the Colts game.  I will cooperate fully with any NFL investigation into this issue."

You know and then he actually need to cooperate fully.

Goes away with a fine.  The problem is the that is not the Patriot way.

I would agree with this. On the other hand, I really like the Circle Jerks and I'm kind of partial to their song Deny Everything, so I'm torn.

It also would have gone away if Goodell would have used some fair judgement and  just fined him the $5512 as was previously done and then instituted some procedures for measuring the balls for all teams and all games rather than going for a draconian sentence.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2864 on: September 04, 2015, 04:19:29 PM »

Offline Forza Juventus

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 964
  • Tommy Points: 70
The nfl will never fire goodell. They love him. Even kraft will forgive him. Even if you are horrible at your job and are the worst team in the nfl you will make tons of money as a nfl owner. Also the owners love that all the criticism goes to goodell and the criticism results in no lost money. We don't even know who most of the nfl owners are, when we criticize the nfl it's goodell we criticize and think of, not some owner we have never seen before, and the owners love it that way.
Azzurri | Juventus | Boston Celtics | Kentucky Basketball

"All the negativity that’s on Celticsblog sucks. I’ve been around when Kyrie Irving was criticized. I’ve been around when Al Horford was insulted. And it stinks. It makes the greatest team, greatest fans in the world, lousy."

Celticsblog=sports radio