Author Topic: #DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)  (Read 596424 times)

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2760 on: September 03, 2015, 01:00:19 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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Also I don't know how many of you have seen this but it is glorious:
http://gawker-labs.com/goodell_punishment/#

There really is a website for everything.

Mike

I beat a baby to death with a puppy and only got 10 games.

No fair. I drank a glass of water and got nine.

Mike

I pooped in a box and mailed it to Chris Mortenson and only got 6 games.  Though to be fair there wasn't any video.

I slept with Goodell's wife and then punched him in the face.  I was suspended indefinately.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2761 on: September 03, 2015, 01:05:02 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I got two games for stopping traffic to save a kitten. There is no justice.

Stradley, McCann, among others were on top of this thing from almost the very start.  Really seemed to nail it start to finish.

As for the ESPN people?  Ummm.... not so much.


Munson was way off base.  He initially said that Berman would not take the case, then he said it was a slam dunk in favor of the NFL.

Now he's saying the NFL has a strong argument for appeal.  At what point should people stop listening to him?
Just because someone is incorrect does not mean you should stop listening to them, if only to figure out why he's coming to the wrong conclusions.

I figure that's something that gets reiterated every summer on CB.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2762 on: September 03, 2015, 01:06:19 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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NFL should have never targeted Brady with so little evidence of involvement. If Goodell would have looked at things independently letting all statements and testimony be viewed in a fairly manner he would have dropped the suspension himself in the apeal. Clearly Goodell had sided with the bad investigation and didn't give Brady's legal team a fair chance to prove innocence or doubt. It's one thing to let owners gang up on another owner on little proof because all they had to state is balls were under and your staff took balls where they weren't supposed to, gas law or not you are punished. They have no proof of actual wrong doing by Brady himself except a failure to provide phone texts which proves nothing in terms on involvement.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2763 on: September 03, 2015, 01:07:17 PM »

Offline colincb

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Alan Milstein ?@amilst44 3h3 hours ago

Quote
Without being too philosophical, this is a victory for anyone compelled to arbitrate. You still are entitled to justice.

I like this summation best so far. Goodell still had to act as an independent arbitrator even in a forced arbitration. Something Munson never acknowledged.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2764 on: September 03, 2015, 01:08:25 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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NFL should have never targeted Brady with so little evidence of involvement. If Goodell would have looked at things independently letting all statements and testimony be viewed in a fairly manner he would have dropped the suspension himself in the apeal. Clearly Goodell had sided with the bad investigation and didn't give Brady's legal team a fair chance to prove innocence or doubt. It's one thing to let owners gang up on another owner on little proof because all they had to state is balls were under and your staff took balls where they weren't supposed to, gas law or not you are punished. They have no proof of actual wrong doing by Brady himself except a failure to provide phone texts which proves nothing in terms on involvement.

The punishment was almost certainly born out of Brady's alleged failure to cooperate, rather than his wrongdoing.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2765 on: September 03, 2015, 01:12:38 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I got two games for stopping traffic to save a kitten. There is no justice.

Stradley, McCann, among others were on top of this thing from almost the very start.  Really seemed to nail it start to finish.

As for the ESPN people?  Ummm.... not so much.


Munson was way off base.  He initially said that Berman would not take the case, then he said it was a slam dunk in favor of the NFL.

Now he's saying the NFL has a strong argument for appeal.  At what point should people stop listening to him?
Just because someone is incorrect does not mean you should stop listening to them, if only to figure out why he's coming to the wrong conclusions.

I figure that's something that gets reiterated every summer on CB.
Completely agree. In this case the reason not to listen to Munson is that pretty much everyone at ESPN has spouted pro NFL misinformation. With so many factual inaccuracies that made Brady look bad coming from ESPN, there is a strong reason not to listen to Munson.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2766 on: September 03, 2015, 01:19:23 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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NFL should have never targeted Brady with so little evidence of involvement. If Goodell would have looked at things independently letting all statements and testimony be viewed in a fairly manner he would have dropped the suspension himself in the apeal. Clearly Goodell had sided with the bad investigation and didn't give Brady's legal team a fair chance to prove innocence or doubt. It's one thing to let owners gang up on another owner on little proof because all they had to state is balls were under and your staff took balls where they weren't supposed to, gas law or not you are punished. They have no proof of actual wrong doing by Brady himself except a failure to provide phone texts which proves nothing in terms on involvement.

The punishment was almost certainly born out of Brady's alleged failure to cooperate, rather than his wrongdoing.
I agree it was. However that decision is still one made on suspicion not evidence. A fair arbitrator would not be able to come to that conclusion. Should had just set a fine for not cooperating and been done with it.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2767 on: September 03, 2015, 01:25:08 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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NFL should have never targeted Brady with so little evidence of involvement. If Goodell would have looked at things independently letting all statements and testimony be viewed in a fairly manner he would have dropped the suspension himself in the apeal. Clearly Goodell had sided with the bad investigation and didn't give Brady's legal team a fair chance to prove innocence or doubt. It's one thing to let owners gang up on another owner on little proof because all they had to state is balls were under and your staff took balls where they weren't supposed to, gas law or not you are punished. They have no proof of actual wrong doing by Brady himself except a failure to provide phone texts which proves nothing in terms on involvement.

The punishment was almost certainly born out of Brady's alleged failure to cooperate, rather than his wrongdoing.

Possibly. Or Goodell, once he realized he had scant direct evidence of Brady's involvement, took the "lack of cooperation" angle to try to save face.

Just reading some of today's coverage of this on ESPN, and I found this bit to be quite hilarious:

Quote
The Colts, according to a team spokesman, have no comment on the ruling. That’s been the franchise’s approach from the start because their focus has strictly been on getting better on the field, so they can try to surpass New England and the rest of the AFC to reach the Super Bowl.

First, this is, in fact, what their focus should be.

But second ... Really? REALLY?!? How can anyone say, with a straight face, that the Colts' focus, from the start, has been on getting better so they can beat the Patriots on the field, when they're the ones who started this whole circus, most likely because they couldn't beat the Pats on the field? Ridiculous.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2768 on: September 03, 2015, 01:26:11 PM »

Offline saltlover

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NFL should have never targeted Brady with so little evidence of involvement. If Goodell would have looked at things independently letting all statements and testimony be viewed in a fairly manner he would have dropped the suspension himself in the apeal. Clearly Goodell had sided with the bad investigation and didn't give Brady's legal team a fair chance to prove innocence or doubt. It's one thing to let owners gang up on another owner on little proof because all they had to state is balls were under and your staff took balls where they weren't supposed to, gas law or not you are punished. They have no proof of actual wrong doing by Brady himself except a failure to provide phone texts which proves nothing in terms on involvement.

The punishment was almost certainly born out of Brady's alleged failure to cooperate, rather than his wrongdoing.

Except that when given the chance to articulate this to the judge, the NFL could not say what part of the suspension was from the non-cooperation vs. the deflation that may or may not have occurred. Furthermore, when asked why four games, the NFL kept arguing it was like using steroids, so that's why four games.  Since steroids are a misdeed, I would be led to conclude the opposite of your statement, if I were forced to conclude that there was any rational consideration behind the suspension at all.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2769 on: September 03, 2015, 01:27:20 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Welp, that was 6 months well spent.

Witch hunt.

Completely and utterly. Grigson and Goodell can start a support group to console each other.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2770 on: September 03, 2015, 01:33:26 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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I got two games for stopping traffic to save a kitten. There is no justice.

Stradley, McCann, among others were on top of this thing from almost the very start.  Really seemed to nail it start to finish.

As for the ESPN people?  Ummm.... not so much.


Munson was way off base.  He initially said that Berman would not take the case, then he said it was a slam dunk in favor of the NFL.

Now he's saying the NFL has a strong argument for appeal.  At what point should people stop listening to him?
Just because someone is incorrect does not mean you should stop listening to them, if only to figure out why he's coming to the wrong conclusions.

I figure that's something that gets reiterated every summer on CB.

Sure, but he didn't just say the NFL had the stronger argument.  He said it was basically a slam dunk. Nearly every other lawyer reporting on this, even ones who felt the NFL had the stronger argument, ripped him for it and he did not back down.  I'm with Stradley who said, "anyone who didn't see Brady outcome being a good possibility was legally ill-informed".

That would be like me saying I'm a basketball expert and back in June saying that Golden State has zero chance of beating the Cavs.  You would not give me any credibility after that.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2771 on: September 03, 2015, 01:33:49 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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NFL should have never targeted Brady with so little evidence of involvement. If Goodell would have looked at things independently letting all statements and testimony be viewed in a fairly manner he would have dropped the suspension himself in the apeal. Clearly Goodell had sided with the bad investigation and didn't give Brady's legal team a fair chance to prove innocence or doubt. It's one thing to let owners gang up on another owner on little proof because all they had to state is balls were under and your staff took balls where they weren't supposed to, gas law or not you are punished. They have no proof of actual wrong doing by Brady himself except a failure to provide phone texts which proves nothing in terms on involvement.

The punishment was almost certainly born out of Brady's alleged failure to cooperate, rather than his wrongdoing.

Except that when given the chance to articulate this to the judge, the NFL could not say what part of the suspension was from the non-cooperation vs. the deflation that may or may not have occurred. Furthermore, when asked why four games, the NFL kept arguing it was like using steroids, so that's why four games.  Since steroids are a misdeed, I would be led to conclude the opposite of your statement, if I were forced to conclude that there was any rational consideration behind the suspension at all.

Yeah, I don't think 'rational consideration' is part of it. The NFL can say what they want while arguing in court -- I maintain that the truth of the suspension was for insubordination, whether or not the facts detail it as such.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2772 on: September 03, 2015, 01:34:50 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I got two games for stopping traffic to save a kitten. There is no justice.

Stradley, McCann, among others were on top of this thing from almost the very start.  Really seemed to nail it start to finish.

As for the ESPN people?  Ummm.... not so much.


Munson was way off base.  He initially said that Berman would not take the case, then he said it was a slam dunk in favor of the NFL.

Now he's saying the NFL has a strong argument for appeal.  At what point should people stop listening to him?
Just because someone is incorrect does not mean you should stop listening to them, if only to figure out why he's coming to the wrong conclusions.

I figure that's something that gets reiterated every summer on CB.

Sure, but he didn't just say the NFL had the stronger argument.  He said it was basically a slam dunk. Nearly every other lawyer reporting on this, even ones who felt the NFL had the stronger argument, ripped him for it and he did not back down.  I'm with Stradley who said, "anyone who didn't see Brady outcome being a good possibility was legally ill-informed".

That would be like me saying I'm a basketball expert and back in June saying that Golden State has zero chance of beating the Cavs.  You would not give me any credibility after that.

I know a few basketball experts that pegged Cleveland to win it. Being an expert and being correct all the time are not correlative, in my experience.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2773 on: September 03, 2015, 01:37:26 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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I got two games for stopping traffic to save a kitten. There is no justice.

Stradley, McCann, among others were on top of this thing from almost the very start.  Really seemed to nail it start to finish.

As for the ESPN people?  Ummm.... not so much.


Munson was way off base.  He initially said that Berman would not take the case, then he said it was a slam dunk in favor of the NFL.

Now he's saying the NFL has a strong argument for appeal.  At what point should people stop listening to him?
Just because someone is incorrect does not mean you should stop listening to them, if only to figure out why he's coming to the wrong conclusions.

I figure that's something that gets reiterated every summer on CB.

Sure, but he didn't just say the NFL had the stronger argument.  He said it was basically a slam dunk. Nearly every other lawyer reporting on this, even ones who felt the NFL had the stronger argument, ripped him for it and he did not back down.  I'm with Stradley who said, "anyone who didn't see Brady outcome being a good possibility was legally ill-informed".

That would be like me saying I'm a basketball expert and back in June saying that Golden State has zero chance of beating the Cavs.  You would not give me any credibility after that.

I know a few basketball experts that pegged Cleveland to win it. Being an expert and being correct all the time are not correlative, in my experience.

But they didn't say Golden State had zero chance which is what Munson was saying and why he was so roundly criticized.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2774 on: September 03, 2015, 01:40:59 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Sure. I'm not defending him in particular (in fact I think I've said that I disagreed with his assessments more or less constantly in this thread) rather pointing out the value of paying attention to viewpoints that don't coincide with yours.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.