Author Topic: #DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)  (Read 593878 times)

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1995 on: August 04, 2015, 09:31:38 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I think that there is significant evidence that it is more likely than not that Mortenson was at least partially aware that his sources were wrong and feeding him bad, inflammatory information.

 ;D
I want to unironically agree but it's entirely possible that he is that dense, too.  ;)
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1996 on: August 04, 2015, 09:51:49 AM »

Offline BballTim

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After apparently not communicating much (if at all) from October through the afc championship game, Brady spoke to Jastremski 8 times on the phone for a total of almost an hour in the three days following the afc title game, texted him 15 times and met with him in person. When asked about all the communications, Brady couldn't recall any specifics from the conversations and claimed they were mainly about ball preparation for the super bowl.

  It's hard to come to any conclusion other than Brady being uncooperative and less than forthright in his answers after reading that.
Well, Walt Anderson thought he used the logo gauge, but it was hard to come to any conclusion other than he "may have misremembered". Welcome to the land of "independent" NFL investigations.

  Sure, the nfl investigation was something of a joke, and the PSI evidence was far from conclusive. The most compelling evidence against the Patriots came from their communications and behavior.

  Brady and a team employee that he had little to no contact with suddenly (immediately after the investigation began) had 8 phone calls totaling an hour in time, texted back and forth and met in person, all in the space of 3 days. Brady doesn't have a believable explanation for the flurry of activity and can't remember any of the details of the conversations. That looks much worse than any evidence the nfl got from measuring footballs.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1997 on: August 04, 2015, 10:13:27 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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After apparently not communicating much (if at all) from October through the afc championship game, Brady spoke to Jastremski 8 times on the phone for a total of almost an hour in the three days following the afc title game, texted him 15 times and met with him in person. When asked about all the communications, Brady couldn't recall any specifics from the conversations and claimed they were mainly about ball preparation for the super bowl.

  It's hard to come to any conclusion other than Brady being uncooperative and less than forthright in his answers after reading that.
Well, Walt Anderson thought he used the logo gauge, but it was hard to come to any conclusion other than he "may have misremembered". Welcome to the land of "independent" NFL investigations.

  Sure, the nfl investigation was something of a joke, and the PSI evidence was far from conclusive. The most compelling evidence against the Patriots came from their communications and behavior.

  Brady and a team employee that he had little to no contact with suddenly (immediately after the investigation began) had 8 phone calls totaling an hour in time, texted back and forth and met in person, all in the space of 3 days. Brady doesn't have a believable explanation for the flurry of activity and can't remember any of the details of the conversations. That looks much worse than any evidence the nfl got from measuring footballs.

So in otherwords.  You accuse somebody of stealing your car with the help of two other people and call the police.  They freak out and talk to eachother because they are being accused of something ridiculous.  You then realize you left your car in the garage the whole time, but they are guilty because they talked about it. 
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1998 on: August 04, 2015, 10:15:09 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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After apparently not communicating much (if at all) from October through the afc championship game, Brady spoke to Jastremski 8 times on the phone for a total of almost an hour in the three days following the afc title game, texted him 15 times and met with him in person. When asked about all the communications, Brady couldn't recall any specifics from the conversations and claimed they were mainly about ball preparation for the super bowl.

  It's hard to come to any conclusion other than Brady being uncooperative and less than forthright in his answers after reading that.
Well, Walt Anderson thought he used the logo gauge, but it was hard to come to any conclusion other than he "may have misremembered". Welcome to the land of "independent" NFL investigations.

  Sure, the nfl investigation was something of a joke, and the PSI evidence was far from conclusive. The most compelling evidence against the Patriots came from their communications and behavior.

  Brady and a team employee that he had little to no contact with suddenly (immediately after the investigation began) had 8 phone calls totaling an hour in time, texted back and forth and met in person, all in the space of 3 days. Brady doesn't have a believable explanation for the flurry of activity and can't remember any of the details of the conversations. That looks much worse than any evidence the nfl got from measuring footballs.


I read all this, and keep asking myself.... And?

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1999 on: August 04, 2015, 10:17:34 AM »

Offline footey

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After apparently not communicating much (if at all) from October through the afc championship game, Brady spoke to Jastremski 8 times on the phone for a total of almost an hour in the three days following the afc title game, texted him 15 times and met with him in person. When asked about all the communications, Brady couldn't recall any specifics from the conversations and claimed they were mainly about ball preparation for the super bowl.

  It's hard to come to any conclusion other than Brady being uncooperative and less than forthright in his answers after reading that.
Well, Walt Anderson thought he used the logo gauge, but it was hard to come to any conclusion other than he "may have misremembered". Welcome to the land of "independent" NFL investigations.

  Sure, the nfl investigation was something of a joke, and the PSI evidence was far from conclusive. The most compelling evidence against the Patriots came from their communications and behavior.

  Brady and a team employee that he had little to no contact with suddenly (immediately after the investigation began) had 8 phone calls totaling an hour in time, texted back and forth and met in person, all in the space of 3 days. Brady doesn't have a believable explanation for the flurry of activity and can't remember any of the details of the conversations. That looks much worse than any evidence the nfl got from measuring footballs.

I never felt the fact that he talked or texted one of the guys during that time frame indicated guilt or innocence.   And have not read any report that Brady said he could not remember the details of those conversations. If you have, please post it here.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2000 on: August 04, 2015, 10:41:26 AM »

Offline steve

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After apparently not communicating much (if at all) from October through the afc championship game, Brady spoke to Jastremski 8 times on the phone for a total of almost an hour in the three days following the afc title game, texted him 15 times and met with him in person. When asked about all the communications, Brady couldn't recall any specifics from the conversations and claimed they were mainly about ball preparation for the super bowl.

  It's hard to come to any conclusion other than Brady being uncooperative and less than forthright in his answers after reading that.
Well, Walt Anderson thought he used the logo gauge, but it was hard to come to any conclusion other than he "may have misremembered". Welcome to the land of "independent" NFL investigations.

  Sure, the nfl investigation was something of a joke, and the PSI evidence was far from conclusive. The most compelling evidence against the Patriots came from their communications and behavior.

  Brady and a team employee that he had little to no contact with suddenly (immediately after the investigation began) had 8 phone calls totaling an hour in time, texted back and forth and met in person, all in the space of 3 days. Brady doesn't have a believable explanation for the flurry of activity and can't remember any of the details of the conversations. That looks much worse than any evidence the nfl got from measuring footballs.

At the time the nfl lied and said the balls were 2 psi lower. So obviously Brady is curious as to why. This is also why Bill and Brady's press conference was awkward cause they were led to believe the balls were dramatically deflated beyond a scientific explanation.


Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2001 on: August 04, 2015, 10:50:06 AM »

Offline Moranis

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After apparently not communicating much (if at all) from October through the afc championship game, Brady spoke to Jastremski 8 times on the phone for a total of almost an hour in the three days following the afc title game, texted him 15 times and met with him in person. When asked about all the communications, Brady couldn't recall any specifics from the conversations and claimed they were mainly about ball preparation for the super bowl.

  It's hard to come to any conclusion other than Brady being uncooperative and less than forthright in his answers after reading that.
Well, Walt Anderson thought he used the logo gauge, but it was hard to come to any conclusion other than he "may have misremembered". Welcome to the land of "independent" NFL investigations.

  Sure, the nfl investigation was something of a joke, and the PSI evidence was far from conclusive. The most compelling evidence against the Patriots came from their communications and behavior.

  Brady and a team employee that he had little to no contact with suddenly (immediately after the investigation began) had 8 phone calls totaling an hour in time, texted back and forth and met in person, all in the space of 3 days. Brady doesn't have a believable explanation for the flurry of activity and can't remember any of the details of the conversations. That looks much worse than any evidence the nfl got from measuring footballs.

So in otherwords.  You accuse somebody of stealing your car with the help of two other people and call the police.  They freak out and talk to eachother because they are being accused of something ridiculous.  You then realize you left your car in the garage the whole time, but they are guilty because they talked about it.
on the first call, they say did you do anything? No.  Ok.  No reason to keep talking that much if there isn't something there.  Of course Brady could have just said what they talked about instead of "not remembering".  Reminds me of Roger Clemons and the whole "misremembering" thing. 

Brady and the Patriots got punished for the "cover-up" i.e. lack of cooperation. 

I said before and I say again, Brady should have just come out said right after the scandal broke, something like "I did not have any member of the Patriots remove air from the footballs.  I do like a softer ball, but a ball within the legal limits.  If the balls were lower than that, I am sorry, but I did nothing wrong."  He then should have fully cooperated with the investigation.   He maybe gets fined and the whole thing goes away.  His lack of cooperation is the real problem here and it always has been.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2002 on: August 04, 2015, 11:00:58 AM »

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I have really gone full arc on this.  When along with the rest of the NFL fandom, I heard:

"The Patriot's balls were 2 psi under the minimum of 12.5 psig (the "g" here is important) and McNally was shown on film going into a bathroom with the balls"

I thought, OK, wow, I can't believe my Pats did this.

But if the first story was something more like:

"The Pats balls do not appear to be measurably underinflated and McNally took the balls into a bathroom for 90 seconds"

I think this whole thing would be a very different story.

Same now with the Phone:

"Brady destroyed his phone to avoid having to turn over information, continuing his pattern of lack of cooperation with the investigation"

or if you believe Sally Jenkins:

"Wells stated that Brady cooperated fully with the investigation and Wells did not need any further phone related information.  Brady got a new phone and destroyed his old phone."

Context is very important and it is clear that the NFL is going out of their way to create the worst possible context for all of these leaks.  Why??

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2003 on: August 04, 2015, 11:11:03 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I have really gone full arc on this.  When along with the rest of the NFL fandom, I heard:

"The Patriot's balls were 2 psi under the minimum of 12.5 psig (the "g" here is important) and McNally was shown on film going into a bathroom with the balls"

I thought, OK, wow, I can't believe my Pats did this.

But if the first story was something more like:

"The Pats balls do not appear to be measurably underinflated and McNally took the balls into a bathroom for 90 seconds"

I think this whole thing would be a very different story.

Same now with the Phone:

"Brady destroyed his phone to avoid having to turn over information, continuing his pattern of lack of cooperation with the investigation"

or if you believe Sally Jenkins:

"Wells stated that Brady cooperated fully with the investigation and Wells did not need any further phone related information.  Brady got a new phone and destroyed his old phone."

Context is very important and it is clear that the NFL is going out of their way to create the worst possible context for all of these leaks.  Why??

Everything Goodell does is for the sake of public opinion.

He chose to make a big deal about going after the most polarizing franchise in the league.  He knew that no matter how egregiously the NFL handled the entire business, if they made a point of releasing information to make the Patriots look as bad as possible, there would be a majority of the viewing public who would side with the NFL, if only because they are happy to see the Pats brought down a peg or simply outed as the cheaters everybody knew them to be all along.

Charles Pierce suggested as much on Grantland -- Tom Brady may not be an arrogant, spoiled, pretty-boy cheater who deserves to be exposed and humbled, but that is how a lot of people see him.  The NFL has gladly catered to that portion of the NFL fanbase, and created a controversy they could actually handle so as to come out on top in public opinion.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2004 on: August 04, 2015, 11:13:20 AM »

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Context is very important and it is clear that the NFL is going out of their way to create the worst possible context for all of these leaks.  Why??

Only thing I can really come up with is that Goodell was getting absolutely killed for the Ray Rice thing in the media & the public perception of him was at rock bottom.

What better way to try & put him back in a positive spotlight than an overblown & contrived controversy involving a Super Bowl participant (& organization already very polarizing in a national context) and one of the league's poster children (Brady)?  Lay down the hammer and show "Strong Roger".

I said it back in January; if this involved the Jacksonville Jaguars, none of this happens and a 25K fine or something pretty much flies under the radar.


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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2005 on: August 04, 2015, 11:15:08 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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on the first call, they say did you do anything? No.  Ok.  No reason to keep talking that much if there isn't something there. 

There's a much longer conversation you could make out of that, if you were so inclined.  Like say, if your professional reputation, millions of dollars, and a sizable chunk of your career could be affected by the answers.

Brady's lawyer, for example, could probably turn that into an hour's worth of questions investigating everything the ball attendant might have done or said during the entire 48 hours before, during, and after the AFC Championship game.

It's not so far-fetched to think Brady might have wanted to know what the heck happened with the balls after it came out in the news that the Pats were being accused of tampering with them and might get in trouble.  Especially with the Super Bowl on the line.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2006 on: August 04, 2015, 11:17:25 AM »

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  His lack of cooperation is the real problem here and it always has been.

That's not even close to being the real problem in this whole Deflategate situation.


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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2007 on: August 04, 2015, 11:18:26 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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[quote author=Vermont Green link=topic=75779.msg1941447#msg1941447
I said it back in January; if this involved the Jacksonville Jaguars, none of this happens and a 25K fine or something pretty much flies under the radar.

If this involved the Jacksonville Jaguars, it would never have been a thing because they wouldn't have multiple opponents whom they have beaten over and over in big games salivating at the opportunity to get them in hot water for breaking the rules.

The Colts and Ravens, and by extension all of the Pats' rivals, have always been the ones with the most to gain from this.  They can point to all the times they've been beaten or flat out embarrassed at the hands of the Patriots and say, well, they're a bunch of cheaters.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2008 on: August 04, 2015, 12:02:51 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I have really gone full arc on this.  When along with the rest of the NFL fandom, I heard:

"The Patriot's balls were 2 psi under the minimum of 12.5 psig (the "g" here is important) and McNally was shown on film going into a bathroom with the balls"

I thought, OK, wow, I can't believe my Pats did this.

But if the first story was something more like:

"The Pats balls do not appear to be measurably underinflated and McNally took the balls into a bathroom for 90 seconds"

I think this whole thing would be a very different story.

Same now with the Phone:

"Brady destroyed his phone to avoid having to turn over information, continuing his pattern of lack of cooperation with the investigation"

or if you believe Sally Jenkins:

"Wells stated that Brady cooperated fully with the investigation and Wells did not need any further phone related information.  Brady got a new phone and destroyed his old phone."

Context is very important and it is clear that the NFL is going out of their way to create the worst possible context for all of these leaks.  Why??

  Wells didn't say he did not need any further phone related information. He said that he didn't need to see the phone himself, he just wanted them to provide information from the phone that was related to the investigation. Brady refused to provide the information and directed someone to destroy the phone.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #2009 on: August 04, 2015, 12:04:48 PM »

Offline Moranis

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[quote author=Vermont Green link=topic=75779.msg1941447#msg1941447
I said it back in January; if this involved the Jacksonville Jaguars, none of this happens and a 25K fine or something pretty much flies under the radar.

If this involved the Jacksonville Jaguars, it would never have been a thing because they wouldn't have multiple opponents whom they have beaten over and over in big games salivating at the opportunity to get them in hot water for breaking the rules.

The Colts and Ravens, and by extension all of the Pats' rivals, have always been the ones with the most to gain from this.  They can point to all the times they've been beaten or flat out embarrassed at the hands of the Patriots and say, well, they're a bunch of cheaters.
Except Baltimore is 2-2 against New England in their last 4 including last years very close game and has had more success against the Pats in the postseason than any other team in the Harbaugh/Flacco era.  It doesn't quite have the same effect when a team that is actually winning games registers a complaint or two.
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