Author Topic: #DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)  (Read 593962 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Judge Berman takes full control of Brady case
« Reply #1950 on: August 01, 2015, 10:31:05 PM »

Offline colincb

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5095
  • Tommy Points: 501
Sounds like this won't take long. Judges are kings of their courtrooms and this judge seemingly wants this fiasco off his docket and is thus looking for a quick settlement or he'll ram a quick verdict down their throats. I'd wager it's a lock that the NFL's not getting 4 games and Brady's not getting the whole thing overturned because of an argument like Goodell cannot by definition be an independent arbitrator. So my best guess is 2 games or just a fine.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/01/judge-berman-takes-full-control-of-brady-case/

Quote
Judge Berman takes full control of Brady case
Posted by Mike Florio on August 1, 2015, 10:07 AM EDT

Some judges don’t get directly involved in trying to settle a case. Some do.

And some of the judges who get directly involved in the efforts to settle a case make it very clear to the parties that the judge is determined to settle the case. When that happens, the case usually settles.

In 18 years of practicing law, I never saw an order like the one Judge Richard M. Berman issued to the NFL and the NFLPA on Friday. Below, I’ll explain how I would interpret it, if I was representing either the NFL or the NFLPA in this case.

Posted on Twitter by Raffi Melkonian, a Texas lawyer who has been posting various court filings to date in the case, the full order reads as follows:

“Thank you for your letter, dated July 31, 2015. I found it helpful. It is ‘OK’ to file a public version of the answer and counterclaim as you request. I always have considerable difficulty approving any sealed documents, given the keen public interest in these matters and the public’s right to know. It’s up to you whether to file any sealed motions or sealed document applications at this time.

“I have two further suggestions. First, because I already have a good understanding of your positions from your submissions to date, you need only each file a 15 page double spaced memo (further supporting your positions) by August 7, 2015. In the nature of a reply brief, perhaps.

“Second, I am scheduling a status/settlement conference for Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 11:00 a.m., with your principals (including, without limitation, Mr. Goodell and Mr. Brady). Let’s see what we can accomplish at that conference and if there is a need for more written submissions, the August 14, 2015 submission date you propose is fine.

“I am also scheduling a status/settlement/oral argument conference for Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 10:00 a.m., again with your principals (including, without limitation, Mr. Goodell and Mr. Brady). Please jointly confirm all dates by 3:00 p.m. on Monday, August 3, 2015. . . .

“Lastly, I request that you all engage in comprehensive, good-faith settlement discussions prior to the conference on August 12, 2015. Magistrate Judge James C. Francis, IV is available to assist you if you wish.”

First, it’s clear that the judge has been studying the case and knows the issues. He probably already has an idea regarding how he would rule on the case; there’s really not much either side can do to change his mind in only 15, double-spaced pages.

Second, he’s determined to get the case settled. By directing the two sides to engage in “comprehensive, good-faith settlement discussions” before the first of not one but two settlement conferences with Judge Berman presiding, he expects the parties to arrive at the first conference with their latest settlement positions clearly established (e.g., NFL at a two-game suspension and an acknowledgement of guilt and Brady at a two-game fine and no acknowledgement of guilt). At that point, Judge Berman will then have two opportunities to pressure the side that needs to be pressured the most (and it possibly will be both sides that need pressure) to resolve the case before he issues a ruling.

Third, the invitation to utilize the services of Magistrate Judge James C. Francis IV to assist in any settlement talks before August 12 isn’t an invitation. If they don’t take Judge Berman up on the offer, he won’t be happy — unless they can settle the case without using Judge Francis as the facilitator/mediator of settlement discussions over the next 11 days.

Fourth, and as surmised on Friday, Judge Berman expects Goodell and Brady to appear in court for both conferences on August 12 and 19. Whoever resists showing up on either of those days does so at his own peril.

For Brady, it will mean missing two days of work. Although the team’s training-camp schedule hasn’t been announced beyond August 3, August 12 comes one day before the preseason opener against the Packers, at Gillette Stadium. On August 19, the Patriots will be in the middle of a three-day visit to West Virginia, for joint practices with the Saints.

For Goodell, it will mean shuffling whatever schedule he already has in place for those days. The NFL’s lawyers will likely tell him that nothing is more important than showing up for the conferences with Judge Berman.

Fifth, it’s clear that Judge Berman won’t be inclined to keep any documents under seal, based on this sentence: “I always have considerable difficulty approving any sealed documents, given the keen public interest in these matters and the public’s right to know.” In other words, the full transcript of the Tom Brady appeal hearing eventually will be released, if the case isn’t settled.

That’s a win for the NFLPA and Brady. Although the NFL would say that the parties agreed to seal the transcript, a source with knowledge of the situation tells PFT that the NFLPA agreed to seal the transcript at the insistence of the NFL.

The best way to keep the transcript from ever being released to the public (barring a leak) would be to settle the case before the judge has to decide whether to approve the filing of the transcript under seal. And Judge Berman knows that. And now the NFL and NFLPA know that he knows that.

I’m tempted to think the case could settle this week, without Goodell and Brady having to appear before Judge Berman. But if the two sides are at an impasse over whether a settlement would include a suspension of any duration, it won’t be easy to break that log jam without getting an idea of how Judge Berman feels about what amounts to an all-or-nothing proposition in court.

Eventually, Judge Berman may have to privately inform the side against which he’s inclined to rule that it will either accept the best deal it can get, or it will get nothing and like it.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1951 on: August 01, 2015, 10:51:30 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123

Given how much these guys text and how freely they talk (texting insults about brady, etc), if there were an ongoing elaborate scheme, wouldn't you expect MORE evidence of illegality, especially if you could take texts out of context from any time?

  If you assume an ongoing scheme, how much texting would you need to do on a weekly basis? How many texts would you ever need?

So now we are at the point where lack of evidence is in fact further evidence of wrongdoing

  More like we're at the point where a lack of repetitive texts doesn't nullify the ones that exist.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1952 on: August 01, 2015, 11:12:57 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
One thing that no one who thinks the Pats are guilty has been able to explain to me is:

How could the ball boy, who supposedly deflated the balls, deflate 12 balls a precise amount of air in 100 seconds he was in the bathroom when it took the NFL Refs a half an hour to accurately measure 12 Pats balls and then only four Colts balls because they ran out of time?

The accuracy with which the balls were supposedly deflated, in the time that the ballboy was in the bathroom, just doesn't seem to be possible given the amount of time it took the league to accurately measure the balls.

  Assuming he did it on a regular basis it would be awfully simple. If you think about it, all of the footballs start out at about the same air pressure. He's using the same needle to deflate each ball, so the air's going to escape through the needle at about the same speed on each ball. All you have to do is let the air escape for relatively the same small amount of time and the balls will be close to the same.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1953 on: August 02, 2015, 05:38:52 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
One thing that no one who thinks the Pats are guilty has been able to explain to me is:

How could the ball boy, who supposedly deflated the balls, deflate 12 balls a precise amount of air in 100 seconds he was in the bathroom when it took the NFL Refs a half an hour to accurately measure 12 Pats balls and then only four Colts balls because they ran out of time?

The accuracy with which the balls were supposedly deflated, in the time that the ballboy was in the bathroom, just doesn't seem to be possible given the amount of time it took the league to accurately measure the balls.

  Assuming he did it on a regular basis it would be awfully simple. If you think about it, all of the footballs start out at about the same air pressure. He's using the same needle to deflate each ball, so the air's going to escape through the needle at about the same speed on each ball. All you have to do is let the air escape for relatively the same small amount of time and the balls will be close to the same.
Yeah.......I'm not buying that.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1954 on: August 02, 2015, 06:56:56 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
One thing that no one who thinks the Pats are guilty has been able to explain to me is:

How could the ball boy, who supposedly deflated the balls, deflate 12 balls a precise amount of air in 100 seconds he was in the bathroom when it took the NFL Refs a half an hour to accurately measure 12 Pats balls and then only four Colts balls because they ran out of time?

The accuracy with which the balls were supposedly deflated, in the time that the ballboy was in the bathroom, just doesn't seem to be possible given the amount of time it took the league to accurately measure the balls.

  Assuming he did it on a regular basis it would be awfully simple. If you think about it, all of the footballs start out at about the same air pressure. He's using the same needle to deflate each ball, so the air's going to escape through the needle at about the same speed on each ball. All you have to do is let the air escape for relatively the same small amount of time and the balls will be close to the same.
Yeah.......I'm not buying that.

  Ok, I'll bite. How long do you think it would take you to stick a needle into a ball and let out a little air? Hopefully we'll be talking seconds, not minutes. How much faster do you think you could get if you did it all the time?

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1955 on: August 02, 2015, 07:46:58 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18699
  • Tommy Points: 1818
http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/nfl-official-notes-balls-have-been-known-leak

Slaughter, a 12-year NFL official prior to becoming a supervisor, said he’s encountered footballs that lose air because of leaks which have nothing to do with tampering by teams. “These are man-made products,” Slaughter said, according to the the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. “There is a bladder and a valve. We have all checked them for many years. Sometimes when you check the ball in the locker room right out of the box, there could be a problem. They could have a slow leak, and you wouldn't even know it at the time.”

That’s valuable intel, especially considering the haste the NFL showed in leaping to the conclusion that footballs which lost pressure during the first half of the AFC Championship Game were tampered with by the Patriots equipment staff. We’ve all had more than enough exploration of the possibility that the Ideal Gas Law is just as likely to have been the culprit. But the fact that an individual like Slaughter, with no dog in the fight, notes that sometimes balls are faulty “right out of the box” is enlightening. And a nugget that may get Slaughter a phone call requesting he keep his faulty ball information to himself for at least the near future.

Florio jumps off the fence, at least stylistically
« Reply #1956 on: August 02, 2015, 08:45:20 PM »

Offline colincb

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5095
  • Tommy Points: 501
Still will not come out and say directly that the Wells Report was corrupt. I will. You do not cherry-pick the evidence that fits your conclusion and ignore the evidence that contradicts your conclusion. This is not a matter of competency. It was a matter of intent and Exponent has a history of providing cooked statistics for well-heeled clients. The firm to hire if you want to reach a predetermined conclusion. Along with the leaks the NFL have used to mislead and failed to retract, there is a clear pattern of willful misconduct here.

Goodell is just a figurehead who comes off like an empty suit. An executive who looks the part and that is about it as far as substance. Blows with the prevailing political wind and the wind is coming from his subordinates, who worked for teams like the Jets, and owners/execs from teams like Indy who want to punish the Pats and Belichick for their arrogance in running up scores, pulling trick plays that go up to the line of NFL rules, ditching the Jets, etc. Just NFL politics and payback.

Who knows what the federal judge will rule, but one attack the Brady/union team is going to employ is going after Goodell's ability to serve as an impartial arbitrator (which the Missouri SC dismissed in another case). I think it is a fruitful line of attack since Goodell works for the owners, but the judge seemingly strongly desires to get this case off his docket and will try to force a settlement.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/02/nfl-supervisor-of-officials-acknowledges-slow-leak-possibility/

Quote
Posted by Mike Florio on August 2, 2015, 1:27 PM EDT
Football

The Ted Wells report should have resulted, in the opinion of PFT and not necessarily anyone else, in a finding that the results of the investigation were inconclusive as to whether the Patriots had tampered with footballs prior to the AFC title game.

Inconclusive, because the NFL had (as former NFL official and supervisor of officials Jim Daopoulos has told PFT) never regarded the inflation of footballs as a science.

Inconclusive, because the NFL had never even checked air pressure in footballs during or after any game in the 95-year history of the league.

Inconclusive, because of the significant gap between the two gauges made available to the officials responsible for setting the air pressure in the footballs used for the AFC Championship Game.

Inconclusive, because the measurements generated by the Patriots footballs (the real ones, not the false ones leaked to ESPN) on one of those gauges — the one the referee specifically recalled using before kickoff to set the air in the Patriots footballs — fell within the range expected by the Ideal Gas Law.

Inconclusive, because one of the gauges showed three of four Colts footballs to be under the 12.5 PSI minimum at halftime, even though they started at 13.0 or 13.1 PSI.

Inconclusive, because a $1,000-an-hour lawyer wasn’t able to parlay troubling Beavis-and-Butthead text messages into a pants-p---ing confession from a day-of-game employee who carries around a bag of footballs on Sundays.

And, now, inconclusive, because a current NFL supervisor of officials has acknowledged that some footballs are defective, when it comes to keeping air inside them.

“These are man-made products,” Central Region supervisor of officials Gary Slaughter said during a via to the Steelers, via Mark Kaboly of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. “There is a bladder and a valve. We have all checked them for many years. Sometimes when you check the ball in the locker room right out of the box, there could be a problem. They could have a slow leak, and you wouldn’t even know it at the time.”

The possibility of a slow leak doesn’t exonerate the Patriots. But it’s another reason for concluding based on the information available to Ted Wells that the evidence of cheating prior to the AFC Championship Game is inconclusive.

The sheer volume of the evidence generated by Ted Wells allows for a 243-page decision supporting any outcome Wells wanted to reach. Whatever outcome he wanted to reach, the end result should have been that the evidence is inconclusive.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1957 on: August 02, 2015, 09:02:43 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
The owners like having Goodell be the centerpiece for any heat, by the way. It's part of the reason he's able to act like his job is secure -- because, by and large, it is.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1958 on: August 02, 2015, 09:30:19 PM »

Offline colincb

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5095
  • Tommy Points: 501
The owners like having Goodell be the centerpiece for any heat, by the way. It's part of the reason he's able to act like his job is secure -- because, by and large, it is.

I agree in part. The owners are not going to want to replace him because it makes them look bad, and he's making $40M per year. Hopefully, they move on when his contract is up.

I would contrast his reign of error with Tagliabue's and Rozelle's. Everyone faces tough issues; Goodell has managed to screw one thing up after another.

Florio speaks about the cellphone, ESPN, and more
« Reply #1959 on: August 02, 2015, 09:52:21 PM »

Offline colincb

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5095
  • Tommy Points: 501
Found via NEP Reddit. Tosses ESPN under the bus.

39 minutes in on the 8/2 podcast:

http://www.ysrpodcasts.com/jason/

Washington Post nails Goodell again
« Reply #1960 on: August 03, 2015, 02:35:18 AM »

Offline colincb

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5095
  • Tommy Points: 501
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-nfls-basic-due-process-is-the-real-issue-in-the-deflategate-controversy/2015/07/30/ebda3b02-3666-11e5-9d0f-7865a67390ee_story.html

Quote
About that exploding cellphone. You know, the one NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell seems to think belonged to Machine Gun Kelly and was used in the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby, as well as the Krupp diamond theft. The one that Ted Wells said he didn’t want or need to complete his investigation into DeflateGate. The one the NFL’s own investigator said wasn’t necessary to the case.

That one.

Wells never asked for Tom Brady’s cellphone and didn’t require it. “Keep the phone,” Wells told Brady and his agent. He insisted his investigation was thorough without it. “I don’t think it undermines in any way the conclusions of the report,” he said. Those were his exact words. So were these, after interrogating Brady for more than five hours: “Totally cooperative,” Wells said of Brady’s testimony.

Yet somehow Goodell found Brady guilty of lack of cooperation and willful destruction of evidence on appeal, all because he upgraded to an iPhone 6?


It goes downhill from there...


Quote
There is another pattern here — a very unseemly pattern of unethical behavior by the league office under Goodell’s leadership. First, there is always a leak from the league that commands a big headline and gins up public indignation. Next comes a disciplinary hammer from Goodell that makes him look like a hero-protector. But when the excitement dies down and actual facts emerge, it all turns out to be a souped-up overreach.

Could Brady case result in reduction of Goodell’s power?
« Reply #1961 on: August 03, 2015, 05:22:34 AM »

Offline colincb

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5095
  • Tommy Points: 501
Another Florio piece came out late last night. It appears the union is going straight at the issue of whether Goodell could ever be an impartial arbitrator.  According to the Sports Law blog, the issue of partiality in NY is pretty simple:

Quote
"a reasonable person would have to conclude that an arbitrator was partial to one party to the arbitration."

This should be kept in mind when reading the Florio piece below: http://tinyurl.com/o5czahb

Quote
The handling of the Brady appeal and its aftermath have raised new questions regarding whether Commissioner Roger Goodell ever can be truly impartial in cases where he has direct involvement in the underlying disciplinary decision.

As the NFLPA argued at paragraph 151 of the original court filing in Minnesota, “It is hard to imagine any person in Goodell’s position even attempting to serve as arbitrator under these circumstances, but that is exactly what he did." ...

Goodell gets paid by the owners (and his subordinates are directly involved in the case). The NFL has lost on that issue before in a decision in May by the Missouri Supreme court.  This is hardly a 3rd party arbitration and impartiality is important regardless of what the CBA says about Goodell's right to serve in that capacity.

 ~~~
Here's some decent explanation about settlement issues an the first link below and about arbitration as it applies to this case in the second link:

http://www.stradleylaw.com/deflategate-legal-faqs-settlement/
http://www.stradleylaw.com/deflategate-legal-questions/

This attorney is blunter than Florio about how the judge likely doesn't want to waste judicial resources on this case. She also thinks the right settlement is  at best a fine.

Re: Washington Post nails Goodell again
« Reply #1962 on: August 03, 2015, 06:54:03 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-nfls-basic-due-process-is-the-real-issue-in-the-deflategate-controversy/2015/07/30/ebda3b02-3666-11e5-9d0f-7865a67390ee_story.html

Quote
About that exploding cellphone. You know, the one NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell seems to think belonged to Machine Gun Kelly and was used in the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby, as well as the Krupp diamond theft. The one that Ted Wells said he didn’t want or need to complete his investigation into DeflateGate. The one the NFL’s own investigator said wasn’t necessary to the case.

That one.

Wells never asked for Tom Brady’s cellphone and didn’t require it. “Keep the phone,” Wells told Brady and his agent. He insisted his investigation was thorough without it. “I don’t think it undermines in any way the conclusions of the report,” he said. Those were his exact words. So were these, after interrogating Brady for more than five hours: “Totally cooperative,” Wells said of Brady’s testimony.

Yet somehow Goodell found Brady guilty of lack of cooperation and willful destruction of evidence on appeal, all because he upgraded to an iPhone 6?

  They didn't ask Brady for the phone, they asked him for any texts and emails on his phone related to the inquiry. Brady didn't provide that information, and destroyed his phone so that information would be irretrievable.

Re: Washington Post nails Goodell again
« Reply #1963 on: August 03, 2015, 07:09:41 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13009
  • Tommy Points: 816
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-nfls-basic-due-process-is-the-real-issue-in-the-deflategate-controversy/2015/07/30/ebda3b02-3666-11e5-9d0f-7865a67390ee_story.html

Quote
About that exploding cellphone. You know, the one NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell seems to think belonged to Machine Gun Kelly and was used in the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby, as well as the Krupp diamond theft. The one that Ted Wells said he didn’t want or need to complete his investigation into DeflateGate. The one the NFL’s own investigator said wasn’t necessary to the case.

That one.

Wells never asked for Tom Brady’s cellphone and didn’t require it. “Keep the phone,” Wells told Brady and his agent. He insisted his investigation was thorough without it. “I don’t think it undermines in any way the conclusions of the report,” he said. Those were his exact words. So were these, after interrogating Brady for more than five hours: “Totally cooperative,” Wells said of Brady’s testimony.

Yet somehow Goodell found Brady guilty of lack of cooperation and willful destruction of evidence on appeal, all because he upgraded to an iPhone 6?

  They didn't ask Brady for the phone, they asked him for any texts and emails on his phone related to the inquiry. Brady didn't provide that information, and destroyed his phone so that information would be irretrievable.

Not true. They had the phones of all non nflpa patriots employees who would have been on the receiving end of those texts and emails.  Unfortunately for the nfl none existed
CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1964 on: August 03, 2015, 07:20:09 AM »

Offline GratefulCs

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3181
  • Tommy Points: 496
  • Salmon and Mashed Potatoes
TP to colincb for the news
I trust Danny Ainge