#DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'm shocked. Along with releasing the emails asking for the NFL to retract this story the NEP are letting the dirty laundry fly.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/attention-circles-back-to-mike-kensil-as-deflategate-source

For all the people who who think the Patriots cheated or at least did something wrong with the footballs, let's go back to the beginning of the story.

When they measured the footballs, they found that the average football dropped 1.01 psi using the gauge that the head ref said used to measure the footballs.  We know that it was 48 degrees outside and a reasonable assumption would be that they were measured in a room around 70.  Therefore, according the laws of science, the balls should have dropped around 1.1 psi give or take a bit.  Therefore, the balls were exactly in line with what science dictated.

So why was there an investigation?

This was before they learned McNally took a bathroom break, before Ted Wells and Exponent used convoluted logic to determine the ref was wrong about which gauge he used, before digging through the two clown ball boys' phones, before Exponent created transient curves that every independent scientist has since criticized, and before they asked for Brady's phone. 

The footballs dropped 1.01 psi which fit exactly with science, but the NFL lied and said the balls dropped 2 psi which science could not easily explain.  1.01 was expected.  If the league was truthful, this story would have died in a day.  So why did the NFL lie?  And why did they refuse to correct that lie?  Why did the NFL open up a $5 million investigation? 

Can someone explain that to me?

  First of all, from what I heard, the Patriots balls lost more air than the Colts balls, which doesn't really fit with the science. Secondly, I don't think the ideal gas law says you'd lose that amount of air.

Yes, the ideal gas law does say you lose that amount of air pressure.  The math is actually quite easy.

The Patriots balls did lose more air pressure, but that is easily explained by the fact they were measured before the Colts balls.  Thus, the Colts balls were coming to equilibrium in the warm room while the Patriots balls were measured and then reinflated.  The refs only measure 4 Colts balls as they said they ran out of time as halftime was coming to an end.  Plenty of scientists have explained that the difference in time easily explains the difference between the two teams' balls.

If they didn't have the text messages or if they didn't have video of the ball boy taking the balls into the bathroom, then this argument could change things. But all three things added together is no coincidence.

  This is where I'm at too. The science isn't definitive either way, and the other things we know don't exactly point in the Pat's favor.

It shouldn't be about definitive either way, it SHOULD be definitive about proving illegal PSI levels (you know, the actual requirement that something is actually wrong). Absent of that, the rest should be irrelevant.

I mean, is the issue here that someone deflated the balls or that someone deflated the balls to outside the acceptable range?

Though related, not really the same thing.

[KeepRondo]

Do people still think Brady was innocent in this whole thing or that nothing ever happened?

The only thing that should be contested is the penalty being too harsh but Brady does deserve some kind of penalty.

I think he's innocent.  Do you think he conspired with a part time, minimum wage employee on a risky scheme to remove 3 to 4 tenths of a psi which is only possible if the ref forgot which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs only a couple hours after measuring them?  Or do you believe a league which has been caught lying about the incident?

I don't believe that the ball boy refered to the other as the deflator because he was on a diet. I also don't believe the ball boy would take the footballs into the restroom without a high porobability of tampering with them. I also don't think the ball boys would be taking all these risks without some kind of direction from Brady. How would they even know that Brady preferred them at 11.5 unless told? And why would they deflate to 11.5 if they knew Brady had the footballs perfect unless they were told otherwise. I know I would never mess with the football that Brady had ready for the game. I wouldnt want to mess up the ball for him unless he said he really wanted them at 11.5.

11.5?  There you go, you are wrong about that.  You have completely ignored the Ideal Gas Law.  It is impossible that they deflated them to 11.5.  At worst they were deflated to around 12.1 to 12.2 psi.  Of course that only happed if the ref was wrong about which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs just a few hours before it turned into a huge issue.  Otherwise, no air was removed.

Did you also miss the text where Jastremski said the balls should have been 13 psi after the mid October Jets game?

even if they lowered the ball pressure to 12 it is still altering the ball.

Perhaps they didn't take the risk against terrible teams such as the Jets. That would explain why the balls were initially set to 13 with the idea to leave them. I guess you didnt think of that since it doesnt help your argument.

After that Jets game, Jastremski sent a text message that he discussed psi levels with Brady and from now on he would like the balls to be 12.5 and to provide a copy of the rules to the refs.  If they were already running a scheme to deflate the balls because Brady wanted them below the legal limit, why that text message?  It makes no sense.

Because they probably didn't run the scheme all the time which makes sense. Why take a chance against the jets? Also they couldn't run the scheme on the road. Brady would still want the ball at 12.5 in these games.

First, that was a home game.  Second, if they had been running the scheme, they already knew his preference.

Wow. You really only read what fits your argument. I said they also wouldn't against terrible teams like the Jets.

I could say the exact same thing about you.  First, you incorrectly thought they took a full pound of pressure out of the footballs and when I corrected you, that didn't disway you at all.  Back when the story first came out, many people compared the difference between two balls with a 2 psi difference and that was difficult for most to notice.  What about a half pund or slightly less?  Does it honestly make sense to you that they would take out such a barely discernible amount of air while running such a risky operation?  Don't answer because I know you will say yes because you already made up your mind when you did not even know the facts.

You really think they would pick and choose which teams they would run the scheme against based on how good that team is and not do it against their hated rival?  Really?

I accepted your correction but if Brady likes them at 12.5 that much then it seems even more plausible that he would prefer them at 12.0 but the rules do not allow that.

What is your argument against the deflator text message and the ball boy taking the balls into the bathroom? When you add all three things together, its hard to argue that the Patriots were not altering football.

[knuckleballer]

Do people still think Brady was innocent in this whole thing or that nothing ever happened?

The only thing that should be contested is the penalty being too harsh but Brady does deserve some kind of penalty.

I think he's innocent.  Do you think he conspired with a part time, minimum wage employee on a risky scheme to remove 3 to 4 tenths of a psi which is only possible if the ref forgot which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs only a couple hours after measuring them?  Or do you believe a league which has been caught lying about the incident?

I don't believe that the ball boy refered to the other as the deflator because he was on a diet. I also don't believe the ball boy would take the footballs into the restroom without a high porobability of tampering with them. I also don't think the ball boys would be taking all these risks without some kind of direction from Brady. How would they even know that Brady preferred them at 11.5 unless told? And why would they deflate to 11.5 if they knew Brady had the footballs perfect unless they were told otherwise. I know I would never mess with the football that Brady had ready for the game. I wouldnt want to mess up the ball for him unless he said he really wanted them at 11.5.

11.5?  There you go, you are wrong about that.  You have completely ignored the Ideal Gas Law.  It is impossible that they deflated them to 11.5.  At worst they were deflated to around 12.1 to 12.2 psi.  Of course that only happed if the ref was wrong about which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs just a few hours before it turned into a huge issue.  Otherwise, no air was removed.

Did you also miss the text where Jastremski said the balls should have been 13 psi after the mid October Jets game?

even if they lowered the ball pressure to 12 it is still altering the ball.

Perhaps they didn't take the risk against terrible teams such as the Jets. That would explain why the balls were initially set to 13 with the idea to leave them. I guess you didnt think of that since it doesnt help your argument.

After that Jets game, Jastremski sent a text message that he discussed psi levels with Brady and from now on he would like the balls to be 12.5 and to provide a copy of the rules to the refs.  If they were already running a scheme to deflate the balls because Brady wanted them below the legal limit, why that text message?  It makes no sense.

Because they probably didn't run the scheme all the time which makes sense. Why take a chance against the jets? Also they couldn't run the scheme on the road. Brady would still want the ball at 12.5 in these games.

First, that was a home game.  Second, if they had been running the scheme, they already knew his preference.

Wow. You really only read what fits your argument. I said they also wouldn't against terrible teams like the Jets.

I could say the exact same thing about you.  First, you incorrectly thought they took a full pound of pressure out of the footballs and when I corrected you, that didn't disway you at all.  Back when the story first came out, many people compared the difference between two balls with a 2 psi difference and that was difficult for most to notice.  What about a half pund or slightly less?  Does it honestly make sense to you that they would take out such a barely discernible amount of air while running such a risky operation?  Don't answer because I know you will say yes because you already made up your mind when you did not even know the facts.

You really think they would pick and choose which teams they would run the scheme against based on how good that team is and not do it against their hated rival?  Really?

I accepted your correction but if Brady likes them at 12.5 that much then it seems even more plausible that he would prefer them at 12.0 but the rules do not allow that.

What is your argument against the deflator text message and the ball boy taking the balls into the bathroom? When you add all three things together, its hard to argue that the Patriots were not altering football.

I would argue that the ball boy taking the balls into the bathroom with him on his way to the field is as indicative of innocent behavior as it could be nefarious behavior.  I would also argue that while it is possible to deflate the balls in such a short amount of time, it seems unlikely that a man of his size and age would do it so quickly when he wasn't racing against a stop watch.

The deflator text was in May in the middle of the season.  I would say they went through thousands of texts between two friends and only finding a handful of texts out of context is extremely flimsly curcumstantial evidence.  I would argue and have that there are text nessages that contradict the notion they were running a scheme.  I would argue that these two guys were not careful at all with their text messages, they even ripped Brady and talked about stealing sneakers which is not a wise thing to do if you are worried about your texts being read.  So, I find it hard to believe Wells could not find stronger evidence when reviewing their communication.  Wells even interrogated McNally for over seven hours and this is all he has.

Regarding the deflator comment, yeah it's an odd choice of words.  I would point out that Jastremski inflates and deflates balls hundred or more times during the week and it is not odd given that reality for him to use words that are common to his job for other meanings when talking casually with friends.  In fact there is evidence of that happening when McNally tells Jastremski to deflate and give someone that jacket when McNally saw him on TV following a game changing end of the half TD by the Packers.

I think it is easy to find bits of circumstantial evidence when spending months and millions investigating. In this case, you are convicting someone of a crime based on circumstantial evidence without evidence a crime even occurred.  I would argue that there was not even a reason to believe balls were tampered with prior to investigating except for a lack of knowledge of basic science.

[KeepRondo]

Do people still think Brady was innocent in this whole thing or that nothing ever happened?

The only thing that should be contested is the penalty being too harsh but Brady does deserve some kind of penalty.

I think he's innocent.  Do you think he conspired with a part time, minimum wage employee on a risky scheme to remove 3 to 4 tenths of a psi which is only possible if the ref forgot which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs only a couple hours after measuring them?  Or do you believe a league which has been caught lying about the incident?

I don't believe that the ball boy refered to the other as the deflator because he was on a diet. I also don't believe the ball boy would take the footballs into the restroom without a high porobability of tampering with them. I also don't think the ball boys would be taking all these risks without some kind of direction from Brady. How would they even know that Brady preferred them at 11.5 unless told? And why would they deflate to 11.5 if they knew Brady had the footballs perfect unless they were told otherwise. I know I would never mess with the football that Brady had ready for the game. I wouldnt want to mess up the ball for him unless he said he really wanted them at 11.5.

11.5?  There you go, you are wrong about that.  You have completely ignored the Ideal Gas Law.  It is impossible that they deflated them to 11.5.  At worst they were deflated to around 12.1 to 12.2 psi.  Of course that only happed if the ref was wrong about which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs just a few hours before it turned into a huge issue.  Otherwise, no air was removed.

Did you also miss the text where Jastremski said the balls should have been 13 psi after the mid October Jets game?

even if they lowered the ball pressure to 12 it is still altering the ball.

Perhaps they didn't take the risk against terrible teams such as the Jets. That would explain why the balls were initially set to 13 with the idea to leave them. I guess you didnt think of that since it doesnt help your argument.

After that Jets game, Jastremski sent a text message that he discussed psi levels with Brady and from now on he would like the balls to be 12.5 and to provide a copy of the rules to the refs.  If they were already running a scheme to deflate the balls because Brady wanted them below the legal limit, why that text message?  It makes no sense.

Because they probably didn't run the scheme all the time which makes sense. Why take a chance against the jets? Also they couldn't run the scheme on the road. Brady would still want the ball at 12.5 in these games.

First, that was a home game.  Second, if they had been running the scheme, they already knew his preference.

Wow. You really only read what fits your argument. I said they also wouldn't against terrible teams like the Jets.

I could say the exact same thing about you.  First, you incorrectly thought they took a full pound of pressure out of the footballs and when I corrected you, that didn't disway you at all.  Back when the story first came out, many people compared the difference between two balls with a 2 psi difference and that was difficult for most to notice.  What about a half pund or slightly less?  Does it honestly make sense to you that they would take out such a barely discernible amount of air while running such a risky operation?  Don't answer because I know you will say yes because you already made up your mind when you did not even know the facts.

You really think they would pick and choose which teams they would run the scheme against based on how good that team is and not do it against their hated rival?  Really?

I accepted your correction but if Brady likes them at 12.5 that much then it seems even more plausible that he would prefer them at 12.0 but the rules do not allow that.

What is your argument against the deflator text message and the ball boy taking the balls into the bathroom? When you add all three things together, its hard to argue that the Patriots were not altering football.

I would argue that the ball boy taking the balls into the bathroom with him on his way to the field is as indicative of innocent behavior as it could be nefarious behavior.  I would also argue that while it is possible to deflate the balls in such a short amount of time, it seems unlikely that a man of his size and age would do it so quickly when he wasn't racing against a stop watch.

The deflator text was in May in the middle of the season.  I would say they went through thousands of texts between two friends and only finding a handful of texts out of context is extremely flimsly curcumstantial evidence.  I would argue and have that there are text nessages that contradict the notion they were running a scheme.  I would argue that these two guys were not careful at all with their text messages, they even ripped Brady and talked about stealing sneakers which is not a wise thing to do if you are worried about your texts being read.  So, I find it hard to believe Wells could not find stronger evidence when reviewing their communication.  Wells even interrogated McNally for over seven hours and this is all he has.

Regarding the deflator comment, yeah it's an odd choice of words.  I would point out that Jastremski inflates and deflates balls hundred or more times during the week and it is not odd given that reality for him to use words that are common to his job for other meanings when talking casually with friends.  In fact there is evidence of that happening when McNally tells Jastremski to deflate and give someone that jacket when McNally saw him on TV following a game changing end of the half TD by the Packers.

I think it is easy to find bits of circumstantial evidence when spending months and millions investigating. In this case, you are convicting someone of a crime based on circumstantial evidence without evidence a crime even occurred.  I would argue that there was not even a reason to believe balls were tampered with prior to investigating except for a lack of knowledge of basic science.

The ball boy would have practiced taking air out of the balls so being able to do this in under 90 seconds is not surprising.

The reference during the Packers game could have been about covering a football with the jacket and deflating it.

[knuckleballer]

Do people still think Brady was innocent in this whole thing or that nothing ever happened?

The only thing that should be contested is the penalty being too harsh but Brady does deserve some kind of penalty.

I think he's innocent.  Do you think he conspired with a part time, minimum wage employee on a risky scheme to remove 3 to 4 tenths of a psi which is only possible if the ref forgot which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs only a couple hours after measuring them?  Or do you believe a league which has been caught lying about the incident?

I don't believe that the ball boy refered to the other as the deflator because he was on a diet. I also don't believe the ball boy would take the footballs into the restroom without a high porobability of tampering with them. I also don't think the ball boys would be taking all these risks without some kind of direction from Brady. How would they even know that Brady preferred them at 11.5 unless told? And why would they deflate to 11.5 if they knew Brady had the footballs perfect unless they were told otherwise. I know I would never mess with the football that Brady had ready for the game. I wouldnt want to mess up the ball for him unless he said he really wanted them at 11.5.

11.5?  There you go, you are wrong about that.  You have completely ignored the Ideal Gas Law.  It is impossible that they deflated them to 11.5.  At worst they were deflated to around 12.1 to 12.2 psi.  Of course that only happed if the ref was wrong about which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs just a few hours before it turned into a huge issue.  Otherwise, no air was removed.

Did you also miss the text where Jastremski said the balls should have been 13 psi after the mid October Jets game?

even if they lowered the ball pressure to 12 it is still altering the ball.

Perhaps they didn't take the risk against terrible teams such as the Jets. That would explain why the balls were initially set to 13 with the idea to leave them. I guess you didnt think of that since it doesnt help your argument.

After that Jets game, Jastremski sent a text message that he discussed psi levels with Brady and from now on he would like the balls to be 12.5 and to provide a copy of the rules to the refs.  If they were already running a scheme to deflate the balls because Brady wanted them below the legal limit, why that text message?  It makes no sense.

Because they probably didn't run the scheme all the time which makes sense. Why take a chance against the jets? Also they couldn't run the scheme on the road. Brady would still want the ball at 12.5 in these games.

First, that was a home game.  Second, if they had been running the scheme, they already knew his preference.

Wow. You really only read what fits your argument. I said they also wouldn't against terrible teams like the Jets.

I could say the exact same thing about you.  First, you incorrectly thought they took a full pound of pressure out of the footballs and when I corrected you, that didn't disway you at all.  Back when the story first came out, many people compared the difference between two balls with a 2 psi difference and that was difficult for most to notice.  What about a half pund or slightly less?  Does it honestly make sense to you that they would take out such a barely discernible amount of air while running such a risky operation?  Don't answer because I know you will say yes because you already made up your mind when you did not even know the facts.

You really think they would pick and choose which teams they would run the scheme against based on how good that team is and not do it against their hated rival?  Really?

I accepted your correction but if Brady likes them at 12.5 that much then it seems even more plausible that he would prefer them at 12.0 but the rules do not allow that.

What is your argument against the deflator text message and the ball boy taking the balls into the bathroom? When you add all three things together, its hard to argue that the Patriots were not altering football.

I would argue that the ball boy taking the balls into the bathroom with him on his way to the field is as indicative of innocent behavior as it could be nefarious behavior.  I would also argue that while it is possible to deflate the balls in such a short amount of time, it seems unlikely that a man of his size and age would do it so quickly when he wasn't racing against a stop watch.

The deflator text was in May in the middle of the season.  I would say they went through thousands of texts between two friends and only finding a handful of texts out of context is extremely flimsly curcumstantial evidence.  I would argue and have that there are text nessages that contradict the notion they were running a scheme.  I would argue that these two guys were not careful at all with their text messages, they even ripped Brady and talked about stealing sneakers which is not a wise thing to do if you are worried about your texts being read.  So, I find it hard to believe Wells could not find stronger evidence when reviewing their communication.  Wells even interrogated McNally for over seven hours and this is all he has.

Regarding the deflator comment, yeah it's an odd choice of words.  I would point out that Jastremski inflates and deflates balls hundred or more times during the week and it is not odd given that reality for him to use words that are common to his job for other meanings when talking casually with friends.  In fact there is evidence of that happening when McNally tells Jastremski to deflate and give someone that jacket when McNally saw him on TV following a game changing end of the half TD by the Packers.

I think it is easy to find bits of circumstantial evidence when spending months and millions investigating. In this case, you are convicting someone of a crime based on circumstantial evidence without evidence a crime even occurred.  I would argue that there was not even a reason to believe balls were tampered with prior to investigating except for a lack of knowledge of basic science.

The ball boy would have practiced taking air out of the balls so being able to do this in under 90 seconds is not surprising.

The reference during the Packers game could have been about covering a football with the jacket and deflating it.

Covering a football with a jacket and deflating it?  Oh, C'mon.  You are reaching.  And you say I only want to believe what helps my argument?   

[BballTim]

I'm shocked. Along with releasing the emails asking for the NFL to retract this story the NEP are letting the dirty laundry fly.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/attention-circles-back-to-mike-kensil-as-deflategate-source

For all the people who who think the Patriots cheated or at least did something wrong with the footballs, let's go back to the beginning of the story.

When they measured the footballs, they found that the average football dropped 1.01 psi using the gauge that the head ref said used to measure the footballs.  We know that it was 48 degrees outside and a reasonable assumption would be that they were measured in a room around 70.  Therefore, according the laws of science, the balls should have dropped around 1.1 psi give or take a bit.  Therefore, the balls were exactly in line with what science dictated.

So why was there an investigation?

This was before they learned McNally took a bathroom break, before Ted Wells and Exponent used convoluted logic to determine the ref was wrong about which gauge he used, before digging through the two clown ball boys' phones, before Exponent created transient curves that every independent scientist has since criticized, and before they asked for Brady's phone. 

The footballs dropped 1.01 psi which fit exactly with science, but the NFL lied and said the balls dropped 2 psi which science could not easily explain.  1.01 was expected.  If the league was truthful, this story would have died in a day.  So why did the NFL lie?  And why did they refuse to correct that lie?  Why did the NFL open up a $5 million investigation? 

Can someone explain that to me?

  First of all, from what I heard, the Patriots balls lost more air than the Colts balls, which doesn't really fit with the science. Secondly, I don't think the ideal gas law says you'd lose that amount of air.

Yes, the ideal gas law does say you lose that amount of air pressure.  The math is actually quite easy.

The Patriots balls did lose more air pressure, but that is easily explained by the fact they were measured before the Colts balls.  Thus, the Colts balls were coming to equilibrium in the warm room while the Patriots balls were measured and then reinflated.  The refs only measure 4 Colts balls as they said they ran out of time as halftime was coming to an end.  Plenty of scientists have explained that the difference in time easily explains the difference between the two teams' balls.

If they didn't have the text messages or if they didn't have video of the ball boy taking the balls into the bathroom, then this argument could change things. But all three things added together is no coincidence.

  This is where I'm at too. The science isn't definitive either way, and the other things we know don't exactly point in the Pat's favor.

It shouldn't be about definitive either way, it SHOULD be definitive about proving illegal PSI levels (you know, the actual requirement that something is actually wrong). Absent of that, the rest should be irrelevant.

I mean, is the issue here that someone deflated the balls or that someone deflated the balls to outside the acceptable range?

Though related, not really the same thing.

  I would expect the practice of doctoring the footballs after having them inspected would be frowned upon, unless you're willing to take the word of the person who doctored the balls that he deflated them, but not to illegal levels.

[Fan from VT]

Again, the evidence is incredibly flimsy and circumstantial at best. And, again, it really only looks incriminating if you start with the assumption that someone intentionally deflated the balls and work from there, picking information out of context that only fits that theory.

For what the patriots are accused of, and given how much information the league had access to, if guilty, its actually incredible that there isn't MORE "evidence" of wrongdoing. The trick of the Wells report is that it takes all these random texts from thousands of texts from months apart at a time, and strips them of timing and context and puts them artificially together as evidence. But it only looks like evidence if you start with the conclusion set in stone.

Given how much these guys text and how freely they talk (texting insults about brady, etc), if there were an ongoing elaborate scheme, wouldn't you expect MORE evidence of illegality, especially if you could take texts out of context from any time?

it would be fun to look at the phones of two frequent texters, pick a crime, and try to dig texts from random times and different contexts to "prove" the crime. Again, if you are actually reading the texts without a foregone conclusion, the LACK of evidence is astounding.

In fact, if you were actually doing a non-biased search for deflation, you actually find that the best, most relevant and most explicit evidence shows that brady requested the balls NOT be 15-16 psi (illegally firm), and requests that they be 12.5 psi... WHICH IS LEGAL!

This is the amazing mind boggling thing. The texts ACTUALLY HAVE THE BEST EVIDENCE OF FULLY LEGAL BEHAVIOR!!!! THE ONLY MENTIONS OF PSI ARE FOR LEGAL LEVELS!

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

My question is, where's the punishment for the team who inflated the balls to 16 PSI?

I agree.

And to be more precise, where are the punishments for all the teams and all the QBs who have done their own variations of breaking this rule? And why no punishment for warming up footballs on the sideline (during a nationally televised game, no less)? And why can kickers (and Aaron Rodgers, apparently) have firmer footballs, but Brady can't have softer footballs?

Oh, that's right, because this is all about Goodell trying to rehab his image at the expense of an easy target.

[danglertx]

You really see how asinine the NFL's argument is when you figure the Patriots went through all this trouble to deflate the footballs by .3 or .4 psi.  That amount is beyond trivial and obviously within pressure gauge error.

I think the NFL and this Kensil guy got overly excited by seeing how deflated the Patriots footballs were at halftime and never considered the weather had anything to do with it.  After that, it was how can we possibly make this horrible case of facts and lack of evidence fit into the Patriots being cheaters.

There is never ANY, not one shred, of evidence that Brady likes his footballs with less inflation than 12.5psi.  Yet the entire case depends on this being a fact. 

[BballTim]

Given how much these guys text and how freely they talk (texting insults about brady, etc), if there were an ongoing elaborate scheme, wouldn't you expect MORE evidence of illegality, especially if you could take texts out of context from any time?

  If you assume an ongoing scheme, how much texting would you need to do on a weekly basis? How many texts would you ever need?

[nickagneta]

One thing that no one who thinks the Pats are guilty has been able to explain to me is:

How could the ball boy, who supposedly deflated the balls, deflate 12 balls a precise amount of air in 100 seconds he was in the bathroom when it took the NFL Refs a half an hour to accurately measure 12 Pats balls and then only four Colts balls because they ran out of time?

The accuracy with which the balls were supposedly deflated, in the time that the ballboy was in the bathroom, just doesn't seem to be possible given the amount of time it took the league to accurately measure the balls.

[Rondo2287]

Given how much these guys text and how freely they talk (texting insults about brady, etc), if there were an ongoing elaborate scheme, wouldn't you expect MORE evidence of illegality, especially if you could take texts out of context from any time?

  If you assume an ongoing scheme, how much texting would you need to do on a weekly basis? How many texts would you ever need?

So now we are at the point where lack of evidence is in fact further evidence of wrongdoing

[knuckleballer]

One thing that no one who thinks the Pats are guilty has been able to explain to me is:

How could the ball boy, who supposedly deflated the balls, deflate 12 balls a precise amount of air in 100 seconds he was in the bathroom when it took the NFL Refs a half an hour to accurately measure 12 Pats balls and then only four Colts balls because they ran out of time?

The accuracy with which the balls were supposedly deflated, in the time that the ballboy was in the bathroom, just doesn't seem to be possible given the amount of time it took the league to accurately measure the balls.

Because this guy has the speed, agility, and body control of a Ninja.   Or at least it's more probable than not that he does.

[Fan from VT]

THe picking and choosing by the Wells report and league does not meake any sense for someone trying to actually find out the answer to a question. It only makes sense to be that selective if you are trying to prove a specific point.

Example 1: The best positive evidence that exists is that Brady asked for his balls to be at 12.5, and that he really does not like the balls at 15 PSI. Given that the range allowed by the rules is 12.5 - 13.5, this is very normal. It's not like the range is 12.5-22.5 and he chose 12.5. It's just 12.5-13.5 and he said 12.5.  That's the evidence that exists. But because people are trying to prove a point, they then lean on an assumption: "well if he liked 12.5, he was REALLY asking for 11.5!" That's pure assumption, not open ended evidence gathering. Thus, the league makes the conclusion that asking for the legal low end of a small range is somehow evidence of illegal intent.

Example 2: THe ref testified that he remembered which gauge he used at halftime. If that was in fact the gauge he used, then the average PSI of balls tested at halftime would be legal. However, in this case, the league assumes that JUST THIS part of his testimony (but nothing else) is unreliable, so the Wells report ignores just that testimony and bases its findings on the other gauge.

[knuckleballer]

THe picking and choosing by the Wells report and league does not meake any sense for someone trying to actually find out the answer to a question. It only makes sense to be that selective if you are trying to prove a specific point.

Example 1: The best positive evidence that exists is that Brady asked for his balls to be at 12.5, and that he really does not like the balls at 15 PSI. Given that the range allowed by the rules is 12.5 - 13.5, this is very normal. It's not like the range is 12.5-22.5 and he chose 12.5. It's just 12.5-13.5 and he said 12.5.  That's the evidence that exists. But because people are trying to prove a point, they then lean on an assumption: "well if he liked 12.5, he was REALLY asking for 11.5!" That's pure assumption, not open ended evidence gathering. Thus, the league makes the conclusion that asking for the legal low end of a small range is somehow evidence of illegal intent.

Example 2: THe ref testified that he remembered which gauge he used at halftime. If that was in fact the gauge he used, then the average PSI of balls tested at halftime would be legal. However, in this case, the league assumes that JUST THIS part of his testimony (but nothing else) is unreliable, so the Wells report ignores just that testimony and bases its findings on the other gauge.

witch hunt:
noun
1.  an intensive effort to discover and expose disloyalty, subversion, dishonesty, or the like, usually based on slight, doubtful, or irrelevant evidence.