Author Topic: #DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)  (Read 593959 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1920 on: August 01, 2015, 09:37:13 AM »

Offline KeepRondo

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5161
  • Tommy Points: 215
Do people still think Brady was innocent in this whole thing or that nothing ever happened?

The only thing that should be contested is the penalty being too harsh but Brady does deserve some kind of penalty.

I think he's innocent.  Do you think he conspired with a part time, minimum wage employee on a risky scheme to remove 3 to 4 tenths of a psi which is only possible if the ref forgot which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs only a couple hours after measuring them?  Or do you believe a league which has been caught lying about the incident?
I don't believe that the ball boy refered to the other as the deflator because he was on a diet. I also don't believe the ball boy would take the footballs into the restroom without a high porobability of tampering with them. I also don't think the ball boys would be taking all these risks without some kind of direction from Brady. How would they even know that Brady preferred them at 11.5 unless told? And why would they deflate to 11.5 if they knew Brady had the footballs perfect unless they were told otherwise. I know I would never mess with the football that Brady had ready for the game. I wouldnt want to mess up the ball for him unless he said he really wanted them at 11.5.

11.5?  There you go, you are wrong about that.  You have completely ignored the Ideal Gas Law.  It is impossible that they deflated them to 11.5.  At worst they were deflated to around 12.1 to 12.2 psi.  Of course that only happed if the ref was wrong about which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs just a few hours before it turned into a huge issue.  Otherwise, no air was removed.

Did you also miss the text where Jastremski said the balls should have been 13 psi after the mid October Jets game?
even if they lowered the ball pressure to 12 it is still altering the ball.

Perhaps they didn't take the risk against terrible teams such as the Jets. That would explain why the balls were initially set to 13 with the idea to leave them. I guess you didnt think of that since it doesnt help your argument.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1921 on: August 01, 2015, 09:57:16 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6363
  • Tommy Points: 664
Do people still think Brady was innocent in this whole thing or that nothing ever happened?

The only thing that should be contested is the penalty being too harsh but Brady does deserve some kind of penalty.

I think he's innocent.  Do you think he conspired with a part time, minimum wage employee on a risky scheme to remove 3 to 4 tenths of a psi which is only possible if the ref forgot which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs only a couple hours after measuring them?  Or do you believe a league which has been caught lying about the incident?
I don't believe that the ball boy refered to the other as the deflator because he was on a diet. I also don't believe the ball boy would take the footballs into the restroom without a high porobability of tampering with them. I also don't think the ball boys would be taking all these risks without some kind of direction from Brady. How would they even know that Brady preferred them at 11.5 unless told? And why would they deflate to 11.5 if they knew Brady had the footballs perfect unless they were told otherwise. I know I would never mess with the football that Brady had ready for the game. I wouldnt want to mess up the ball for him unless he said he really wanted them at 11.5.

11.5?  There you go, you are wrong about that.  You have completely ignored the Ideal Gas Law.  It is impossible that they deflated them to 11.5.  At worst they were deflated to around 12.1 to 12.2 psi.  Of course that only happed if the ref was wrong about which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs just a few hours before it turned into a huge issue.  Otherwise, no air was removed.

Did you also miss the text where Jastremski said the balls should have been 13 psi after the mid October Jets game?
even if they lowered the ball pressure to 12 it is still altering the ball.

Perhaps they didn't take the risk against terrible teams such as the Jets. That would explain why the balls were initially set to 13 with the idea to leave them. I guess you didnt think of that since it doesnt help your argument.

After that Jets game, Jastremski sent a text message that he discussed psi levels with Brady and from now on he would like the balls to be 12.5 and to provide a copy of the rules to the refs.  If they were already running a scheme to deflate the balls because Brady wanted them below the legal limit, why that text message?  It makes no sense. 

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1922 on: August 01, 2015, 10:32:55 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18699
  • Tommy Points: 1818
Do people still think Brady was innocent in this whole thing or that nothing ever happened?

The only thing that should be contested is the penalty being too harsh but Brady does deserve some kind of penalty.

I think he's innocent.  Do you think he conspired with a part time, minimum wage employee on a risky scheme to remove 3 to 4 tenths of a psi which is only possible if the ref forgot which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs only a couple hours after measuring them?  Or do you believe a league which has been caught lying about the incident?
I don't believe that the ball boy refered to the other as the deflator because he was on a diet. I also don't believe the ball boy would take the footballs into the restroom without a high porobability of tampering with them. I also don't think the ball boys would be taking all these risks without some kind of direction from Brady. How would they even know that Brady preferred them at 11.5 unless told? And why would they deflate to 11.5 if they knew Brady had the footballs perfect unless they were told otherwise. I know I would never mess with the football that Brady had ready for the game. I wouldnt want to mess up the ball for him unless he said he really wanted them at 11.5.

11.5?  There you go, you are wrong about that.  You have completely ignored the Ideal Gas Law.  It is impossible that they deflated them to 11.5.  At worst they were deflated to around 12.1 to 12.2 psi.  Of course that only happed if the ref was wrong about which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs just a few hours before it turned into a huge issue.  Otherwise, no air was removed.

Did you also miss the text where Jastremski said the balls should have been 13 psi after the mid October Jets game?
even if they lowered the ball pressure to 12 it is still altering the ball.

Perhaps they didn't take the risk against terrible teams such as the Jets. That would explain why the balls were initially set to 13 with the idea to leave them. I guess you didnt think of that since it doesnt help your argument.

After that Jets game, Jastremski sent a text message that he discussed psi levels with Brady and from now on he would like the balls to be 12.5 and to provide a copy of the rules to the refs.  If they were already running a scheme to deflate the balls because Brady wanted them below the legal limit, why that text message?  It makes no sense. 

It's been a while since I read it, but that the gist of what I recall. It was more about Brady complaining about over-inflated balls [illegal as per the rules], and his desire/preference to have them at the lowest legal limit.

And considering all the science that has come since then explaining how simply the passage of time alters the PSI levels, it's very hard for me to come to the conclusion, with the evidence as presented, that Brady in particular did anything wrong here.

Anything beyond that is pure speculation and outside of the scope of what matters I think.

I'm not an expert on this topic, I don't care much about it, but this latest drama has been interesting.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1923 on: August 01, 2015, 10:41:19 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6363
  • Tommy Points: 664
Do people still think Brady was innocent in this whole thing or that nothing ever happened?

The only thing that should be contested is the penalty being too harsh but Brady does deserve some kind of penalty.

I think he's innocent.  Do you think he conspired with a part time, minimum wage employee on a risky scheme to remove 3 to 4 tenths of a psi which is only possible if the ref forgot which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs only a couple hours after measuring them?  Or do you believe a league which has been caught lying about the incident?
I don't believe that the ball boy refered to the other as the deflator because he was on a diet. I also don't believe the ball boy would take the footballs into the restroom without a high porobability of tampering with them. I also don't think the ball boys would be taking all these risks without some kind of direction from Brady. How would they even know that Brady preferred them at 11.5 unless told? And why would they deflate to 11.5 if they knew Brady had the footballs perfect unless they were told otherwise. I know I would never mess with the football that Brady had ready for the game. I wouldnt want to mess up the ball for him unless he said he really wanted them at 11.5.

11.5?  There you go, you are wrong about that.  You have completely ignored the Ideal Gas Law.  It is impossible that they deflated them to 11.5.  At worst they were deflated to around 12.1 to 12.2 psi.  Of course that only happed if the ref was wrong about which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs just a few hours before it turned into a huge issue.  Otherwise, no air was removed.

Did you also miss the text where Jastremski said the balls should have been 13 psi after the mid October Jets game?
even if they lowered the ball pressure to 12 it is still altering the ball.

Perhaps they didn't take the risk against terrible teams such as the Jets. That would explain why the balls were initially set to 13 with the idea to leave them. I guess you didnt think of that since it doesnt help your argument.

After that Jets game, Jastremski sent a text message that he discussed psi levels with Brady and from now on he would like the balls to be 12.5 and to provide a copy of the rules to the refs.  If they were already running a scheme to deflate the balls because Brady wanted them below the legal limit, why that text message?  It makes no sense. 

It's been a while since I read it, but that the gist of what I recall. It was more about Brady complaining about over-inflated balls [illegal as per the rules], and his desire/preference to have them at the lowest legal limit.

And considering all the science that has come since then explaining how simply the passage of time alters the PSI levels, it's very hard for me to come to the conclusion, with the evidence as presented, that Brady in particular did anything wrong here.

Anything beyond that is pure speculation and outside of the scope of what matters I think.

I'm not an expert on this topic, I don't care much about it, but this latest drama has been interesting.

That conversation was about Brady complaining about overinflated balls (16psi).  But if they were already running this risky scheme to deflate them below the legal limit, why would it be necessary for Jastremski to discuss Brady's preference?  Afterall, they were already in cahoots with Brady because Brady was demanding them to be below the minimum.  No, it makes no sense and contradicts the notion they were already running a scheme.

The latest drama is interesting, but it is only a red herring that distracts from the flimsy at best evidence that the balls were tampered with.

Re: Attention circles back to Kensil as Deflategate source
« Reply #1924 on: August 01, 2015, 10:44:04 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
I'm shocked. Along with releasing the emails asking for the NFL to retract this story the NEP are letting the dirty laundry fly.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/attention-circles-back-to-mike-kensil-as-deflategate-source

For all the people who who think the Patriots cheated or at least did something wrong with the footballs, let's go back to the beginning of the story.

When they measured the footballs, they found that the average football dropped 1.01 psi using the gauge that the head ref said used to measure the footballs.  We know that it was 48 degrees outside and a reasonable assumption would be that they were measured in a room around 70.  Therefore, according the laws of science, the balls should have dropped around 1.1 psi give or take a bit.  Therefore, the balls were exactly in line with what science dictated.

So why was there an investigation?

This was before they learned McNally took a bathroom break, before Ted Wells and Exponent used convoluted logic to determine the ref was wrong about which gauge he used, before digging through the two clown ball boys' phones, before Exponent created transient curves that every independent scientist has since criticized, and before they asked for Brady's phone. 

The footballs dropped 1.01 psi which fit exactly with science, but the NFL lied and said the balls dropped 2 psi which science could not easily explain.  1.01 was expected.  If the league was truthful, this story would have died in a day.  So why did the NFL lie?  And why did they refuse to correct that lie?  Why did the NFL open up a $5 million investigation? 

Can someone explain that to me?

  First of all, from what I heard, the Patriots balls lost more air than the Colts balls, which doesn't really fit with the science. Secondly, I don't think the ideal gas law says you'd lose that amount of air.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1925 on: August 01, 2015, 10:47:00 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Do people still think Brady was innocent in this whole thing or that nothing ever happened?

The only thing that should be contested is the penalty being too harsh but Brady does deserve some kind of penalty.

I think he's innocent.  Do you think he conspired with a part time, minimum wage employee on a risky scheme to remove 3 to 4 tenths of a psi which is only possible if the ref forgot which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs only a couple hours after measuring them?  Or do you believe a league which has been caught lying about the incident?
I don't believe that the ball boy refered to the other as the deflator because he was on a diet. I also don't believe the ball boy would take the footballs into the restroom without a high porobability of tampering with them. I also don't think the ball boys would be taking all these risks without some kind of direction from Brady. How would they even know that Brady preferred them at 11.5 unless told? And why would they deflate to 11.5 if they knew Brady had the footballs perfect unless they were told otherwise. I know I would never mess with the football that Brady had ready for the game. I wouldnt want to mess up the ball for him unless he said he really wanted them at 11.5.

11.5?  There you go, you are wrong about that.  You have completely ignored the Ideal Gas Law.  It is impossible that they deflated them to 11.5.  At worst they were deflated to around 12.1 to 12.2 psi.  Of course that only happed if the ref was wrong about which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs just a few hours before it turned into a huge issue.  Otherwise, no air was removed.

Did you also miss the text where Jastremski said the balls should have been 13 psi after the mid October Jets game?
even if they lowered the ball pressure to 12 it is still altering the ball.

Perhaps they didn't take the risk against terrible teams such as the Jets. That would explain why the balls were initially set to 13 with the idea to leave them. I guess you didnt think of that since it doesnt help your argument.

After that Jets game, Jastremski sent a text message that he discussed psi levels with Brady and from now on he would like the balls to be 12.5 and to provide a copy of the rules to the refs.  If they were already running a scheme to deflate the balls because Brady wanted them below the legal limit, why that text message?  It makes no sense.

  I thought Brady said he never discussed ball pressure with anyone before the investigation started.

Re: Attention circles back to Kensil as Deflategate source
« Reply #1926 on: August 01, 2015, 10:59:14 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6363
  • Tommy Points: 664
I'm shocked. Along with releasing the emails asking for the NFL to retract this story the NEP are letting the dirty laundry fly.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/attention-circles-back-to-mike-kensil-as-deflategate-source

For all the people who who think the Patriots cheated or at least did something wrong with the footballs, let's go back to the beginning of the story.

When they measured the footballs, they found that the average football dropped 1.01 psi using the gauge that the head ref said used to measure the footballs.  We know that it was 48 degrees outside and a reasonable assumption would be that they were measured in a room around 70.  Therefore, according the laws of science, the balls should have dropped around 1.1 psi give or take a bit.  Therefore, the balls were exactly in line with what science dictated.

So why was there an investigation?

This was before they learned McNally took a bathroom break, before Ted Wells and Exponent used convoluted logic to determine the ref was wrong about which gauge he used, before digging through the two clown ball boys' phones, before Exponent created transient curves that every independent scientist has since criticized, and before they asked for Brady's phone. 

The footballs dropped 1.01 psi which fit exactly with science, but the NFL lied and said the balls dropped 2 psi which science could not easily explain.  1.01 was expected.  If the league was truthful, this story would have died in a day.  So why did the NFL lie?  And why did they refuse to correct that lie?  Why did the NFL open up a $5 million investigation? 

Can someone explain that to me?

  First of all, from what I heard, the Patriots balls lost more air than the Colts balls, which doesn't really fit with the science. Secondly, I don't think the ideal gas law says you'd lose that amount of air.

Yes, the ideal gas law does say you lose that amount of air pressure.  The math is actually quite easy.

The Patriots balls did lose more air pressure, but that is easily explained by the fact they were measured before the Colts balls.  Thus, the Colts balls were coming to equilibrium in the warm room while the Patriots balls were measured and then reinflated.  The refs only measure 4 Colts balls as they said they ran out of time as halftime was coming to an end.  Plenty of scientists have explained that the difference in time easily explains the difference between the two teams' balls.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1927 on: August 01, 2015, 11:18:18 AM »

Offline KeepRondo

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5161
  • Tommy Points: 215
Do people still think Brady was innocent in this whole thing or that nothing ever happened?

The only thing that should be contested is the penalty being too harsh but Brady does deserve some kind of penalty.

I think he's innocent.  Do you think he conspired with a part time, minimum wage employee on a risky scheme to remove 3 to 4 tenths of a psi which is only possible if the ref forgot which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs only a couple hours after measuring them?  Or do you believe a league which has been caught lying about the incident?
I don't believe that the ball boy refered to the other as the deflator because he was on a diet. I also don't believe the ball boy would take the footballs into the restroom without a high porobability of tampering with them. I also don't think the ball boys would be taking all these risks without some kind of direction from Brady. How would they even know that Brady preferred them at 11.5 unless told? And why would they deflate to 11.5 if they knew Brady had the footballs perfect unless they were told otherwise. I know I would never mess with the football that Brady had ready for the game. I wouldnt want to mess up the ball for him unless he said he really wanted them at 11.5.

11.5?  There you go, you are wrong about that.  You have completely ignored the Ideal Gas Law.  It is impossible that they deflated them to 11.5.  At worst they were deflated to around 12.1 to 12.2 psi.  Of course that only happed if the ref was wrong about which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs just a few hours before it turned into a huge issue.  Otherwise, no air was removed.

Did you also miss the text where Jastremski said the balls should have been 13 psi after the mid October Jets game?
even if they lowered the ball pressure to 12 it is still altering the ball.

Perhaps they didn't take the risk against terrible teams such as the Jets. That would explain why the balls were initially set to 13 with the idea to leave them. I guess you didnt think of that since it doesnt help your argument.

After that Jets game, Jastremski sent a text message that he discussed psi levels with Brady and from now on he would like the balls to be 12.5 and to provide a copy of the rules to the refs.  If they were already running a scheme to deflate the balls because Brady wanted them below the legal limit, why that text message?  It makes no sense.
Because they probably didn't run the scheme all the time which makes sense. Why take a chance against the jets? Also they couldn't run the scheme on the road. Brady would still want the ball at 12.5 in these games.




Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1928 on: August 01, 2015, 11:21:38 AM »

Offline twistedrico

  • Derrick White
  • Posts: 272
  • Tommy Points: 22
Brady screwed this up he deserves whatever he gets. He should have admitted he was involved from the start.  Spoiled Republican rich kid.

Re: Attention circles back to Kensil as Deflategate source
« Reply #1929 on: August 01, 2015, 11:24:36 AM »

Offline KeepRondo

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5161
  • Tommy Points: 215
I'm shocked. Along with releasing the emails asking for the NFL to retract this story the NEP are letting the dirty laundry fly.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/attention-circles-back-to-mike-kensil-as-deflategate-source

For all the people who who think the Patriots cheated or at least did something wrong with the footballs, let's go back to the beginning of the story.

When they measured the footballs, they found that the average football dropped 1.01 psi using the gauge that the head ref said used to measure the footballs.  We know that it was 48 degrees outside and a reasonable assumption would be that they were measured in a room around 70.  Therefore, according the laws of science, the balls should have dropped around 1.1 psi give or take a bit.  Therefore, the balls were exactly in line with what science dictated.

So why was there an investigation?

This was before they learned McNally took a bathroom break, before Ted Wells and Exponent used convoluted logic to determine the ref was wrong about which gauge he used, before digging through the two clown ball boys' phones, before Exponent created transient curves that every independent scientist has since criticized, and before they asked for Brady's phone. 

The footballs dropped 1.01 psi which fit exactly with science, but the NFL lied and said the balls dropped 2 psi which science could not easily explain.  1.01 was expected.  If the league was truthful, this story would have died in a day.  So why did the NFL lie?  And why did they refuse to correct that lie?  Why did the NFL open up a $5 million investigation? 

Can someone explain that to me?

  First of all, from what I heard, the Patriots balls lost more air than the Colts balls, which doesn't really fit with the science. Secondly, I don't think the ideal gas law says you'd lose that amount of air.

Yes, the ideal gas law does say you lose that amount of air pressure.  The math is actually quite easy.

The Patriots balls did lose more air pressure, but that is easily explained by the fact they were measured before the Colts balls.  Thus, the Colts balls were coming to equilibrium in the warm room while the Patriots balls were measured and then reinflated.  The refs only measure 4 Colts balls as they said they ran out of time as halftime was coming to an end.  Plenty of scientists have explained that the difference in time easily explains the difference between the two teams' balls.
If they didn't have the text messages or if they didn't have video of the ball boy taking the balls into the bathroom, then this argument could change things. But all three things added together is no coincidence.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1930 on: August 01, 2015, 11:27:36 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6363
  • Tommy Points: 664
Do people still think Brady was innocent in this whole thing or that nothing ever happened?

The only thing that should be contested is the penalty being too harsh but Brady does deserve some kind of penalty.

I think he's innocent.  Do you think he conspired with a part time, minimum wage employee on a risky scheme to remove 3 to 4 tenths of a psi which is only possible if the ref forgot which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs only a couple hours after measuring them?  Or do you believe a league which has been caught lying about the incident?
I don't believe that the ball boy refered to the other as the deflator because he was on a diet. I also don't believe the ball boy would take the footballs into the restroom without a high porobability of tampering with them. I also don't think the ball boys would be taking all these risks without some kind of direction from Brady. How would they even know that Brady preferred them at 11.5 unless told? And why would they deflate to 11.5 if they knew Brady had the footballs perfect unless they were told otherwise. I know I would never mess with the football that Brady had ready for the game. I wouldnt want to mess up the ball for him unless he said he really wanted them at 11.5.

11.5?  There you go, you are wrong about that.  You have completely ignored the Ideal Gas Law.  It is impossible that they deflated them to 11.5.  At worst they were deflated to around 12.1 to 12.2 psi.  Of course that only happed if the ref was wrong about which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs just a few hours before it turned into a huge issue.  Otherwise, no air was removed.

Did you also miss the text where Jastremski said the balls should have been 13 psi after the mid October Jets game?
even if they lowered the ball pressure to 12 it is still altering the ball.

Perhaps they didn't take the risk against terrible teams such as the Jets. That would explain why the balls were initially set to 13 with the idea to leave them. I guess you didnt think of that since it doesnt help your argument.

After that Jets game, Jastremski sent a text message that he discussed psi levels with Brady and from now on he would like the balls to be 12.5 and to provide a copy of the rules to the refs.  If they were already running a scheme to deflate the balls because Brady wanted them below the legal limit, why that text message?  It makes no sense.
Because they probably didn't run the scheme all the time which makes sense. Why take a chance against the jets? Also they couldn't run the scheme on the road. Brady would still want the ball at 12.5 in these games.

First, that was a home game.  Second, if they had been running the scheme, they already knew his preference.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1931 on: August 01, 2015, 11:30:25 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18699
  • Tommy Points: 1818
My question is, where's the punishment for the team who inflated the balls to 16 PSI?

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1932 on: August 01, 2015, 11:33:51 AM »

Offline KeepRondo

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5161
  • Tommy Points: 215
Do people still think Brady was innocent in this whole thing or that nothing ever happened?

The only thing that should be contested is the penalty being too harsh but Brady does deserve some kind of penalty.

I think he's innocent.  Do you think he conspired with a part time, minimum wage employee on a risky scheme to remove 3 to 4 tenths of a psi which is only possible if the ref forgot which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs only a couple hours after measuring them?  Or do you believe a league which has been caught lying about the incident?
I don't believe that the ball boy refered to the other as the deflator because he was on a diet. I also don't believe the ball boy would take the footballs into the restroom without a high porobability of tampering with them. I also don't think the ball boys would be taking all these risks without some kind of direction from Brady. How would they even know that Brady preferred them at 11.5 unless told? And why would they deflate to 11.5 if they knew Brady had the footballs perfect unless they were told otherwise. I know I would never mess with the football that Brady had ready for the game. I wouldnt want to mess up the ball for him unless he said he really wanted them at 11.5.

11.5?  There you go, you are wrong about that.  You have completely ignored the Ideal Gas Law.  It is impossible that they deflated them to 11.5.  At worst they were deflated to around 12.1 to 12.2 psi.  Of course that only happed if the ref was wrong about which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs just a few hours before it turned into a huge issue.  Otherwise, no air was removed.

Did you also miss the text where Jastremski said the balls should have been 13 psi after the mid October Jets game?
even if they lowered the ball pressure to 12 it is still altering the ball.

Perhaps they didn't take the risk against terrible teams such as the Jets. That would explain why the balls were initially set to 13 with the idea to leave them. I guess you didnt think of that since it doesnt help your argument.

After that Jets game, Jastremski sent a text message that he discussed psi levels with Brady and from now on he would like the balls to be 12.5 and to provide a copy of the rules to the refs.  If they were already running a scheme to deflate the balls because Brady wanted them below the legal limit, why that text message?  It makes no sense.
Because they probably didn't run the scheme all the time which makes sense. Why take a chance against the jets? Also they couldn't run the scheme on the road. Brady would still want the ball at 12.5 in these games.

First, that was a home game.  Second, if they had been running the scheme, they already knew his preference.
Wow. You really only read what fits your argument. I said they also wouldn't against terrible teams like the Jets.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1933 on: August 01, 2015, 11:46:06 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6363
  • Tommy Points: 664
Do people still think Brady was innocent in this whole thing or that nothing ever happened?

The only thing that should be contested is the penalty being too harsh but Brady does deserve some kind of penalty.

I think he's innocent.  Do you think he conspired with a part time, minimum wage employee on a risky scheme to remove 3 to 4 tenths of a psi which is only possible if the ref forgot which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs only a couple hours after measuring them?  Or do you believe a league which has been caught lying about the incident?
I don't believe that the ball boy refered to the other as the deflator because he was on a diet. I also don't believe the ball boy would take the footballs into the restroom without a high porobability of tampering with them. I also don't think the ball boys would be taking all these risks without some kind of direction from Brady. How would they even know that Brady preferred them at 11.5 unless told? And why would they deflate to 11.5 if they knew Brady had the footballs perfect unless they were told otherwise. I know I would never mess with the football that Brady had ready for the game. I wouldnt want to mess up the ball for him unless he said he really wanted them at 11.5.

11.5?  There you go, you are wrong about that.  You have completely ignored the Ideal Gas Law.  It is impossible that they deflated them to 11.5.  At worst they were deflated to around 12.1 to 12.2 psi.  Of course that only happed if the ref was wrong about which gauge he used to measure over 50 footballs just a few hours before it turned into a huge issue.  Otherwise, no air was removed.

Did you also miss the text where Jastremski said the balls should have been 13 psi after the mid October Jets game?
even if they lowered the ball pressure to 12 it is still altering the ball.

Perhaps they didn't take the risk against terrible teams such as the Jets. That would explain why the balls were initially set to 13 with the idea to leave them. I guess you didnt think of that since it doesnt help your argument.

After that Jets game, Jastremski sent a text message that he discussed psi levels with Brady and from now on he would like the balls to be 12.5 and to provide a copy of the rules to the refs.  If they were already running a scheme to deflate the balls because Brady wanted them below the legal limit, why that text message?  It makes no sense.
Because they probably didn't run the scheme all the time which makes sense. Why take a chance against the jets? Also they couldn't run the scheme on the road. Brady would still want the ball at 12.5 in these games.

First, that was a home game.  Second, if they had been running the scheme, they already knew his preference.
Wow. You really only read what fits your argument. I said they also wouldn't against terrible teams like the Jets.

I could say the exact same thing about you.  First, you incorrectly thought they took a full pound of pressure out of the footballs and when I corrected you, that didn't disway you at all.  Back when the story first came out, many people compared the difference between two balls with a 2 psi difference and that was difficult for most to notice.  What about a half pund or slightly less?  Does it honestly make sense to you that they would take out such a barely discernible amount of air while running such a risky operation?  Don't answer because I know you will say yes because you already made up your mind when you did not even know the facts.

You really think they would pick and choose which teams they would run the scheme against based on how good that team is and not do it against their hated rival?  Really?

Re: Attention circles back to Kensil as Deflategate source
« Reply #1934 on: August 01, 2015, 11:57:34 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
I'm shocked. Along with releasing the emails asking for the NFL to retract this story the NEP are letting the dirty laundry fly.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/attention-circles-back-to-mike-kensil-as-deflategate-source

For all the people who who think the Patriots cheated or at least did something wrong with the footballs, let's go back to the beginning of the story.

When they measured the footballs, they found that the average football dropped 1.01 psi using the gauge that the head ref said used to measure the footballs.  We know that it was 48 degrees outside and a reasonable assumption would be that they were measured in a room around 70.  Therefore, according the laws of science, the balls should have dropped around 1.1 psi give or take a bit.  Therefore, the balls were exactly in line with what science dictated.

So why was there an investigation?

This was before they learned McNally took a bathroom break, before Ted Wells and Exponent used convoluted logic to determine the ref was wrong about which gauge he used, before digging through the two clown ball boys' phones, before Exponent created transient curves that every independent scientist has since criticized, and before they asked for Brady's phone. 

The footballs dropped 1.01 psi which fit exactly with science, but the NFL lied and said the balls dropped 2 psi which science could not easily explain.  1.01 was expected.  If the league was truthful, this story would have died in a day.  So why did the NFL lie?  And why did they refuse to correct that lie?  Why did the NFL open up a $5 million investigation? 

Can someone explain that to me?

  First of all, from what I heard, the Patriots balls lost more air than the Colts balls, which doesn't really fit with the science. Secondly, I don't think the ideal gas law says you'd lose that amount of air.

Yes, the ideal gas law does say you lose that amount of air pressure.  The math is actually quite easy.

The Patriots balls did lose more air pressure, but that is easily explained by the fact they were measured before the Colts balls.  Thus, the Colts balls were coming to equilibrium in the warm room while the Patriots balls were measured and then reinflated.  The refs only measure 4 Colts balls as they said they ran out of time as halftime was coming to an end.  Plenty of scientists have explained that the difference in time easily explains the difference between the two teams' balls.
If they didn't have the text messages or if they didn't have video of the ball boy taking the balls into the bathroom, then this argument could change things. But all three things added together is no coincidence.

  This is where I'm at too. The science isn't definitive either way, and the other things we know don't exactly point in the Pat's favor.