Author Topic: #DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)  (Read 596233 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1815 on: July 29, 2015, 05:22:17 PM »

Online Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30933
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • What a Pub Should Be
Last point - wouldn't this whole thing have been over months ago if they had just let TMZ take over?  I'm not joking, here, btw - they have a sports division now and an excellent legal team.  Plus, they'd definitely add a considerable amount of humor to it.  What's the downside?

This whole thing would have been over months ago if the NFL had done a routine internal investigation sans the multi-million dollar report and then utilized an actually independent arbitrator.

You're right, but Goodell wanted to win the case or give the appearance that he tried.

I think the league office saw an opportunity there to really capitalize & turn the public perception of Goodell who had an absolutely awful 2014 from a public relations standpoint.  Specifically, the Ray Rice incident.

What was a molehill (as evidenced by small fines or internal memos in the past on similar items) was turned into absolute mountain, in part, to benefit Goodell's image. 


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1816 on: July 29, 2015, 05:23:22 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11225
  • Tommy Points: 860
Sure, it goes to another device. Do you realize that the other person may have deleted the text? And obviously it's impractical to follow up on each of the thousands of texts to see if there was any relevant information, and probably well beyond the reach of the investigation.
Yeah, and all of this is true for Brady's phone as well.

Also, there's no telling how many actual recipients there were of the "thousands of texts".

By the way, Kraft said that they NFL received access to the phone of every non-NFLPA employee that it requested, including Belichick (so much about the crackpot theory of him being "protected" here).

  One would wonder whether "the NFL received access to the phone of every non-NFLPA employee that it requested" is just another way to say "access to the phone of everyone involved except for Brady". For the record, I'm not saying that Brady had to turn his phone over, but for someone who's innocent and has nothing to hide, he's acting more like the opposite is true.

Precedent.  Unions are big on that kind of thing.  Brady may be using that for cover and really hiding something but it is nothing he should be punished for, especially when they can't even prove the footballs were deflated.

Remember, the Ref said he believed that he used the "logo" gauge.  They tested at halftime with a different gage.   The Wells investigator asked the ref "are you absolutely sure you didn't use the other gage".   The ref said "no, I am not absolutely sure but I think I used the logo gage".  Wells concluded based on this that the ref used the other gage.  I say it is more likely than not that the ref used the logo gage based on what he said.  If the numbers are based on the logo gage, there would be no deflation.

How is this part of the story getting lost.  It is more likely than not, that the balls were not even deflated!

Say that again everyone, the balls were probably not even deflated.  At best, the NFL has no credible, could stand up in court, proof the balls were deflated.  Not even close.

I don't understand the whole phone destruction thing but I am still behind Brady and the Pats on this as I have not seen proof an infraction was committed on the day in question.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 05:57:30 PM by Vermont Green »

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1817 on: July 29, 2015, 05:58:44 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Sure, it goes to another device. Do you realize that the other person may have deleted the text? And obviously it's impractical to follow up on each of the thousands of texts to see if there was any relevant information, and probably well beyond the reach of the investigation.
Yeah, and all of this is true for Brady's phone as well.

Also, there's no telling how many actual recipients there were of the "thousands of texts".

By the way, Kraft said that they NFL received access to the phone of every non-NFLPA employee that it requested, including Belichick (so much about the crackpot theory of him being "protected" here).

  One would wonder whether "the NFL received access to the phone of every non-NFLPA employee that it requested" is just another way to say "access to the phone of everyone involved except for Brady". For the record, I'm not saying that Brady had to turn his phone over, but for someone who's innocent and has nothing to hide, he's acting more like the opposite is true.
Even folks who have nothing to hide typically go to court with an attorney.

  Yes, but they don't all seem to destroy evidence (even if it's their own personal property) and give a credulity-straining explanation of events.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1818 on: July 29, 2015, 06:13:09 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
Yes, but they don't all seem to destroy evidence (even if it's their own personal property) and give a credulity-straining explanation of events.
The court also doesn't routinely leak questionable information to the media, so there's that.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1819 on: July 29, 2015, 06:26:04 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Guys, instead of getting bogged down in this stuff, just go watch the Butler interception clip a half dozen times and then watch some of the fan reaction videos again.

I'm amazed how happy it still makes me to watch that.  Instant gratification.  I don't think it'll ever get old.

The memory of that moment . . . the depths of despair transformed into hysterical, triumphant joy in one instant.  Legendary.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1820 on: July 29, 2015, 06:43:27 PM »

Offline Eja117

  • NCE
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19274
  • Tommy Points: 1254
Sure, it goes to another device. Do you realize that the other person may have deleted the text? And obviously it's impractical to follow up on each of the thousands of texts to see if there was any relevant information, and probably well beyond the reach of the investigation.
Yeah, and all of this is true for Brady's phone as well.

Also, there's no telling how many actual recipients there were of the "thousands of texts".

By the way, Kraft said that they NFL received access to the phone of every non-NFLPA employee that it requested, including Belichick (so much about the crackpot theory of him being "protected" here).

  One would wonder whether "the NFL received access to the phone of every non-NFLPA employee that it requested" is just another way to say "access to the phone of everyone involved except for Brady". For the record, I'm not saying that Brady had to turn his phone over, but for someone who's innocent and has nothing to hide, he's acting more like the opposite is true.
Even folks who have nothing to hide typically go to court with an attorney.

  Yes, but they don't all seem to destroy evidence (even if it's their own personal property) and give a credulity-straining explanation of events.
Right, but typically heresay isn't enough to arrest a guy let alone charge him, and when the police bungle their investigation and handling of evidence, they usually drop the charges, and even if they convict him they usually give them some sort of punishment that fits the crime. They don't usually send the cherios thief to prison for life. Not even if it's his 2nd time.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1821 on: July 29, 2015, 06:48:36 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Yes, but they don't all seem to destroy evidence (even if it's their own personal property) and give a credulity-straining explanation of events.
The court also doesn't routinely leak questionable information to the media, so there's that.

  I wouldn't bet my bottom dollar on that.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1822 on: July 29, 2015, 07:01:42 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6363
  • Tommy Points: 664
Sure, it goes to another device. Do you realize that the other person may have deleted the text? And obviously it's impractical to follow up on each of the thousands of texts to see if there was any relevant information, and probably well beyond the reach of the investigation.
Yeah, and all of this is true for Brady's phone as well.

Also, there's no telling how many actual recipients there were of the "thousands of texts".

By the way, Kraft said that they NFL received access to the phone of every non-NFLPA employee that it requested, including Belichick (so much about the crackpot theory of him being "protected" here).

  One would wonder whether "the NFL received access to the phone of every non-NFLPA employee that it requested" is just another way to say "access to the phone of everyone involved except for Brady". For the record, I'm not saying that Brady had to turn his phone over, but for someone who's innocent and has nothing to hide, he's acting more like the opposite is true.

Precedent.  Unions are big on that kind of thing.  Brady may be using that for cover and really hiding something but it is nothing he should be punished for, especially when they can't even prove the footballs were deflated.

Remember, the Ref said he believed that he used the "logo" gauge.  They tested at halftime with a different gage.   The Wells investigator asked the ref "are you absolutely sure you didn't use the other gage".   The ref said "no, I am not absolutely sure but I think I used the logo gage".  Wells concluded based on this that the ref used the other gage.  I say it is more likely than not that the ref used the logo gage based on what he said.  If the numbers are based on the logo gage, there would be no deflation.

How is this part of the story getting lost.  It is more likely than not, that the balls were not even deflated!

Say that again everyone, the balls were probably not even deflated.  At best, the NFL has no credible, could stand up in court, proof the balls were deflated.  Not even close.

I don't understand the whole phone destruction thing but I am still behind Brady and the Pats on this as I have not seen proof an infraction was committed on the day in question.

And look how different these two gauges look.  If you measured over 50 footballs and then this huge issue developed a couple hours later, you are going to remember which of those two gauges you used.  Wells just dismissed that to get the numbers he wanted.

Even if the ref did forget, at worst only about 3-4 tenths of a psi was removed, conveniently the difference between the two gauges.  It doesn't make any sense to run such a risky operation to remove such an insignificant amount of air.


Brady did not get the judge he wanted
« Reply #1823 on: July 29, 2015, 07:07:29 PM »

Offline colincb

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5095
  • Tommy Points: 501
https://twitter.com/BobMcGovernJr

According to what's on the docket: The Minnesota case has been assigned to Judge Richard H. Kyle, NOT Judge David Doty.

====

Both parties are jockeying for position yet, but Doty has ruled against the NFL before.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1824 on: July 29, 2015, 07:08:55 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36776
  • Tommy Points: 2961
Media and their loving public

Are always looking for a victim


Always on the hunt


To destroy somebody


Shoot them down.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1825 on: July 30, 2015, 01:01:01 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58538
  • Tommy Points: -25636
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1826 on: July 30, 2015, 01:02:12 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
The case will be heard in NY, not Minnesota:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13345115/new-england-patriots-qb-tom-brady-lawsuit-heard-new-york-not-minnesota

Not great news for Brady.  Still, he has a very strong case, from everything I've read.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1827 on: July 30, 2015, 01:16:23 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1828 on: July 30, 2015, 01:22:33 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13009
  • Tommy Points: 816
CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #1829 on: July 30, 2015, 01:24:11 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Isn't Forbes a fairly pro-business source?  I wouldn't trust them to not be NFL-biased.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/07/27/tom-brady-nflpa-deflategate-suspension-federal-court

I trust Michael McCann's analysis.  He makes it sound like Brady has a fairly strong case, though parts of it would rely on things that are relatively hard to prove in court (e.g. leaks to the media).

The biggest issue for Brady may be time.  There probably isn't time to get an injunction soon enough to make playing in the season opener a reality, and total resolution via a court battle may take months.  The risk of having to serve part or all of the 4 game suspension late in the season when the Pats are pushing for the playoffs (or IN the playoffs) seems high.

To me, the biggest aspect of Brady's challenge is that there is simply no precedent for applying the rules to a player as the NFL has done in this situation, nor is there precedent for punishing such an offense with a suspension as opposed to fines.  Too much of the NFL's discipline in this case is based on extremely broad interpretations of the language in the CBA and the NFL's conduct code.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain