#DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)

[Eja117]

I'm pretty late to the party here, so I'll probably say stuff that has already been said....however,   I do not for the life of me understand why an employer (really any employer but especially an employer of people in a union) think for the life of them "cooperation" in an investigation means they get to completely invade your privacy.

To me "cooperation" means they ask you questions, and you answer them. They want to see the footballs so you give them to them.  But take cell phones from 5 people?  Who the heck do they think they are, the NSA?  Even the NSA isn't supposed to do that.

If I'm the NFLPA I'm standing united on this and saying the following:

"All our players at any and all times are always in complete control of their phones, their email and social media passwords and logins, their diaries, their trash, their homes, their photo albums, their cars, their academic records, their yards, and any other similar part of their private lives and the NFL can never have access to them ever.  Our players will comply with warrants by law enforcement, but not ever the NFL. This is non-negotiable. It doesn't matter if they burn them, send them to the moon, smash them with hammers, or delete it. It is their property."

Go on strike if you must, but win this battle.
The end.

I don't recognize an employer's right to your stuff. They have a right to their stuff.

[Eja117]

People that are acting like Brady should have handed over his phone to the NFL are exceptionally naive. The NFL couldn't be trusted with a game of connect 4 with a toddler, let alone a phone. That league has more leaks and lies than a sieve surrounded by snakes.

Could you imagine if pro leagues had gotten other people's phones?

What if phones existed earlier in time?  Should boxing have been able to have Muhammed Ali's phone?  Should baseball have been able to go into Babe Ruth's phone?

Sorry folks...the Colts think Tom cheated....not a good enough reason for Tom to hand the NFL his phone. Absurd.

[kozlodoev]

I am livid right now!


According to the NFLPA and Brady's agent, Don Yee, all of Brady's phone records, including calls and texts, were provided to the league. Brady destroying his cell phone (as every mega celebrity probably does), is totally irrelevant.

#fireGoodell
#freebrady
#thisisasmearcampaign


NFLPA - http://deadspin.com/nflpa-calls-tom-bradys-upheld-suspension-outrageous-1720704637?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Yee - http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4782927/tom-bradys-agent-don-yee-rips-nfl-in-strongly-worded-statement

There is, of course, a catch -- the league got his cellphone bills, so for all practical purposes they had a giant spreadsheet of everyone he ever called or texted. However, the only way to recover said texts was to procure the phones of the text recipients and get them from there. Which was not exactly feasible.

[Beat LA]

And here go...

Jim TrotterVerified account
?@JimTrotter_NFL
Tom Brady has authorized the NFLPA to appeal his case in federal court, per source.

Awesome. I'm glad to see him go forward with this.

If he's going forward with this, all you can be glad about is that he's attempting to get back on the field.  His legacy though is now permanently stained.  The fact that he had his phone destroyed is a massive detail...even if he goes to court, wins, and gets this down to 0 games, Patriot haters can say "well you know why he won?  Because they had no evidence because he destroyed his phone"

Now again, if you're saying awesome just because he's fighting to get back on the field, then sure.  But fighting for his "legacy" is now a dead battle.  It's over.

His legacy isn't stained at all, that's just the narrative fan in you talking. It's not nearly as 'stained' as, say, Ray Lewis -- who's legacy isn't in particularly poor standing at all, at least as his play is concerned.

Look, I'm not a football fan, but how is Brady's legacy not at all tarnished after this?  In how many scandals do he and Belichick have to be involved before someone puts two and two together?

I think the larger point is that these things fade from memory for the most part. You do realize the guy Dos is referring to is "more likely than not" to know about murder of two young men and/or have been involved in it. That man is now on national tv broadcasts and is trotted out as an ambassador of the game. If he can overcome that, I think it is more likely than not that Brady can overcome more likely than not knowing about the deflation of some footballs.

Unless you are Mark Brunell and facing bankruptcy from bad whattaburger investments, this is isn't the kind of stuff to cry over.

Yes, I'm well aware of Ray Lewis and feel that he should be in jail, but I also don't think it's easy for people to dismiss this 'scandal' involving Brady and the Patriots because it only adds to their already-shady track record.  Honestly, I don't give a flying fart in space about the nfl or any of this.  I just think it's a sad sign of where our 'news' is right now in this country if 'stories' like this are heavily and regularly featured.  I'm not sure which is more hilarious - the completely asinine discussion itself, or the amount of time given to it.  I mean, other than Brady and the Patriots, the most talked about offender/conspirator (whichever term you prefer) is a guy who called himself, 'the deflator.' This 'story' is gold, lol .

[Beat LA]

People that are acting like Brady should have handed over his phone to the NFL are exceptionally naive. The NFL couldn't be trusted with a game of connect 4 with a toddler, let alone a phone. That league has more leaks and lies than a sieve surrounded by snakes.

Could you imagine if pro leagues had gotten other people's phones?

What if phones existed earlier in time?  Should boxing have been able to have Muhammed Ali's phone?  Should baseball have been able to go into Babe Ruth's phone?

Sorry folks...the Colts think Tom cheated....not a good enough reason for Tom to hand the NFL his phone. Absurd.

Wouldn't they just subpoena the phone in the first place?  That seems like a pretty standard legal procedure to me.  Brady might have destroyed his phone, but there are ways to circumvent that, like getting a hold of his sim card(s), and what if his phone was automatically backing everything up in the Verizon cloud thing?  What would he do at that point?



Ahaha .

[kozlodoev]

Wouldn't they just subpoena the phone in the first place?  That seems like a pretty standard legal procedure to me.  Brady might have destroyed his phone, but there are ways to circumvent that, like getting a hold of his sim card(s), and what if his phone was automatically backing everything up in the Verizon cloud thing?  What would he do at that point?

Last time I checked, private organizations such as the NFL had no right to issue subpoenas.

[Eja117]

I think the NFL should be careful what they wished for. Remember when the Paternos and various other actors sued the NCAA over the PSU punishments? Then the NCAA had to give up all their documents on the issue? It didn't work out too well for them.

[BballTim]

I'm pretty late to the party here, so I'll probably say stuff that has already been said....however,   I do not for the life of me understand why an employer (really any employer but especially an employer of people in a union) think for the life of them "cooperation" in an investigation means they get to completely invade your privacy.

To me "cooperation" means they ask you questions, and you answer them. They want to see the footballs so you give them to them.  But take cell phones from 5 people?  Who the heck do they think they are, the NSA?  Even the NSA isn't supposed to do that.

If I'm the NFLPA I'm standing united on this and saying the following:

"All our players at any and all times are always in complete control of their phones, their email and social media passwords and logins, their diaries, their trash, their homes, their photo albums, their cars, their academic records, their yards, and any other similar part of their private lives and the NFL can never have access to them ever.  Our players will comply with warrants by law enforcement, but not ever the NFL. This is non-negotiable. It doesn't matter if they burn them, send them to the moon, smash them with hammers, or delete it. It is their property."

Go on strike if you must, but win this battle.
The end.

I don't recognize an employer's right to your stuff. They have a right to their stuff.

  First of all, while it might be true that the league has no means whatsoever to compel players or team officials to comply with it's investigations, you can't just assume that to be true. Maybe they're expected to comply with official league investigations, and Brady's an example of what kind of punishment they can get if they don't. You also can't just compare them to typical employees. For instance, the players have to share much more of their medical history than almost anyone else would.

  Also, as an fyi, it's not unheard of for employers to ask employees for their social media passwords. The employees (or prospective employees) aren't legally obligated to comply with the request, but their employment can still be contingent on it. The nfl can't legally compel Brady to give them his phone, but that doesn't imply that they can't punish him for not cooperating with the investigation.

[BballTim]

People that are acting like Brady should have handed over his phone to the NFL are exceptionally naive. The NFL couldn't be trusted with a game of connect 4 with a toddler, let alone a phone. That league has more leaks and lies than a sieve surrounded by snakes.

Could you imagine if pro leagues had gotten other people's phones?

What if phones existed earlier in time?  Should boxing have been able to have Muhammed Ali's phone?  Should baseball have been able to go into Babe Ruth's phone?

Sorry folks...the Colts think Tom cheated....not a good enough reason for Tom to hand the NFL his phone. Absurd.

Wouldn't they just subpoena the phone in the first place?  That seems like a pretty standard legal procedure to me.  Brady might have destroyed his phone, but there are ways to circumvent that, like getting a hold of his sim card(s), and what if his phone was automatically backing everything up in the Verizon cloud thing?  What would he do at that point?



Ahaha .

  You have to wonder if that's next, some (jets fan) hacker downloading Brady's cloud storage and doing a Sony-type release.

[Beat LA]

Wouldn't they just subpoena the phone in the first place?  That seems like a pretty standard legal procedure to me.  Brady might have destroyed his phone, but there are ways to circumvent that, like getting a hold of his sim card(s), and what if his phone was automatically backing everything up in the Verizon cloud thing?  What would he do at that point?

Last time I checked, private organizations such as the NFL had no right to issue subpoenas.

I was more so implying that they could get a subpoena for his phone as part of the case, seeing as how it probably has oodles of sensitive information on it, and it's not like the league is lacking in lawyers.

[Beat LA]

People that are acting like Brady should have handed over his phone to the NFL are exceptionally naive. The NFL couldn't be trusted with a game of connect 4 with a toddler, let alone a phone. That league has more leaks and lies than a sieve surrounded by snakes.

Could you imagine if pro leagues had gotten other people's phones?

What if phones existed earlier in time?  Should boxing have been able to have Muhammed Ali's phone?  Should baseball have been able to go into Babe Ruth's phone?

Sorry folks...the Colts think Tom cheated....not a good enough reason for Tom to hand the NFL his phone. Absurd.

Wouldn't they just subpoena the phone in the first place?  That seems like a pretty standard legal procedure to me.  Brady might have destroyed his phone, but there are ways to circumvent that, like getting a hold of his sim card(s), and what if his phone was automatically backing everything up in the Verizon cloud thing?  What would he do at that point?



Ahaha .

  You have to wonder if that's next, some (jets fan) hacker downloading Brady's cloud storage and doing a Sony-type release.

That would be hilarious - TP .

[colincb]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/28/nfl-offered-brady-at-least-50-percent-reduction-in-exchange-for-admission-of-guilt/

[D.o.s.]

And here go...

Jim TrotterVerified account
?@JimTrotter_NFL
Tom Brady has authorized the NFLPA to appeal his case in federal court, per source.

Awesome. I'm glad to see him go forward with this.

If he's going forward with this, all you can be glad about is that he's attempting to get back on the field.  His legacy though is now permanently stained.  The fact that he had his phone destroyed is a massive detail...even if he goes to court, wins, and gets this down to 0 games, Patriot haters can say "well you know why he won?  Because they had no evidence because he destroyed his phone"

Now again, if you're saying awesome just because he's fighting to get back on the field, then sure.  But fighting for his "legacy" is now a dead battle.  It's over.

His legacy isn't stained at all, that's just the narrative fan in you talking. It's not nearly as 'stained' as, say, Ray Lewis -- who's legacy isn't in particularly poor standing at all, at least as his play is concerned.

Look, I'm not a football fan, but how is Brady's legacy not at all tarnished after this?  In how many scandals do he and Belichick have to be involved before someone puts two and two together?

I think the larger point is that these things fade from memory for the most part. You do realize the guy Dos is referring to is "more likely than not" to know about murder of two young men and/or have been involved in it. That man is now on national tv broadcasts and is trotted out as an ambassador of the game. If he can overcome that, I think it is more likely than not that Brady can overcome more likely than not knowing about the deflation of some footballs.

Unless you are Mark Brunell and facing bankruptcy from bad whattaburger investments, this is isn't the kind of stuff to cry over.

Yes, I'm well aware of Ray Lewis and feel that he should be in jail, but I also don't think it's easy for people to dismiss this 'scandal' involving Brady and the Patriots because it only adds to their already-shady track record.  Honestly, I don't give a flying fart in space about the nfl or any of this.  I just think it's a sad sign of where our 'news' is right now in this country if 'stories' like this are heavily and regularly featured.  I'm not sure which is more hilarious - the completely asinine discussion itself, or the amount of time given to it.  I mean, other than Brady and the Patriots, the most talked about offender/conspirator (whichever term you prefer) is a guy who called himself, 'the deflator.' This 'story' is gold, lol .

It's a story because they need space to fill before training camp, and end of July/beginning of August is the sports news dead zone. And also because the NFL seems incapable of doing anything other than shooting themselves in the foot whenever something like this comes up -- newsworthy because the NFL is massive.

The reasons why you feel such news stories are asinine is another topic entirely, but perhaps not one that will find much traction on a forum dedicated to tracking players of a specific sports team into largely unimportant minutia.

[colincb]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/28/brady-offered-to-help-nfl-gather-missing-text-messages/

[JSD]

I am livid right now!


According to the NFLPA and Brady's agent, Don Yee, all of Brady's phone records, including calls and texts, were provided to the league. Brady destroying his cell phone (as every mega celebrity probably does), is totally irrelevant.

I don't think the "records" were copies of the texts.  Rather, if anything, they'd be copies of phone numbers Brady called / texted.  Apparently, Brady told the NFL to dig through the records, and to contact the cell phone provider for the info they wanted.  It's doubtful that the cell phone company would have complied with that request without a subpoena, and even then, companies aren't always compliant.

The league had all the relevant text messages and calls by having everyone else's phone that was involved.