Author Topic: #DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)  (Read 598796 times)

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #945 on: May 06, 2015, 01:31:15 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Quote
    For the reasons described in this Report, and after a comprehensive investigation, we have concluded that, in connection with the AFC Championship Game, it is more probable than not that New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate effort to circumvent the rules. In particular, we have concluded that it is more probable than not that Jim McNally (the Officials Locker Room attendant for the Patriots) and John Jastremski (an equipment assistant for the Patriots) participated in a deliberate effort to release air from Patriots game balls after the balls were examined by the referee. Based on the evidence, it also is our view that it is more probable than not that Tom Brady (the quarterback for the Patriots) was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls.

    [...]

    We do not believe that the evidence establishes that any other Patriots personnel participated in or had knowledge of the violation of the Playing Rules or the deliberate effort to circumvent the rules described in this Report. In particular, we do not believe there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots ownership, Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick or any other Patriots coach in the matters investigated. We also do not believe there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots Head Equipment Manager Dave Schoenfeld.

http://deadspin.com/wells-report-patriots-likely-deflated-balls-on-purpose-1702593820
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #946 on: May 06, 2015, 01:35:42 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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For those folks without legal training or knowledge, "more probable than not" means nothing beyond "at least 50.00000000000000001%" likelihood.

It's a very low bar of proof.  To spend weeks and weeks and thousands of dollars in an investigation and come forward with "more probable than not," and nothing more specific than that, is pretty weak.

Especially, "more probable than not" that Brady was "at least generally aware" (itself an extremely vague description) is essentially meaningless.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #947 on: May 06, 2015, 01:35:52 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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So they found that:

1) Pats told the refs Brady wanted balls at 12.5
2) Colts apparently targeted 13 PSI
3) After being measured by 2 separate officials, 3 of the 4 Colts balls tested at halftime measured below 12.5 PSI (!)

I'm unsure how after that they would expect any Patriots ball to be inflated within the limits. What a monumental waste of time.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #948 on: May 06, 2015, 01:41:24 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Correct^ but I saw this and figured y'all would like some closure on the matter.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #949 on: May 06, 2015, 01:44:02 PM »

Online celticsclay

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Did you guys read the text messages in the report? It actually seems pretty close to a smoking gun. I am a pats fan and thought this was all nonsense and was dead until I read this. I actually think Brady will get suspended.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #950 on: May 06, 2015, 01:45:02 PM »

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I definitely don't think that Brady will get suspended for this. The NFL would prefer that everyone forget that it ever happened. They have crab legs to watch for now.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #951 on: May 06, 2015, 01:45:07 PM »

Online Atzar

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"More likely than not."

"At least generally aware."

Are you serious?  They paid people for this crap? 

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #952 on: May 06, 2015, 01:47:27 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Did you guys read the text messages in the report? It actually seems pretty close to a smoking gun. I am a pats fan and thought this was all nonsense and was dead until I read this. I actually think Brady will get suspended.
Yeah. But it seems that it was mostly Brady and the eq guys. Belichick and Kraft must be livid  ;D

Regardless, given the actual measurements at half-time, I still believe this was a waste of time. Also,  I can all but laugh about the claims of "statistical significance" given that one of the data sets contains 4 (four) observation points. Really...
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #953 on: May 06, 2015, 01:47:40 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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My guess is fines to the franchise and major suspensions for Patriots middle men who play no major role with how the team plays on the field.

Suspending Brady would be an extreme move, though I'm sure the majority of people will want him to get suspended (and Belichick, too).  The findings just don't seem definitive enough to support suspending a team's best player, for even a single game.

-----

Similar to Spygate, the issue with this whole controversy is that there's no discussion about the degree to which these supposedly nefarious practices by the Patriots are standard practice around the league.

Let's say it is well known and true that Brady prefers his footballs to be a little underinflated, and that the equipment staff indulges him on this.

OK.  So what about Aaron Rodgers?  Peyton Manning?  Russell Wilson?  Ben Roethlisberger?

You telling me that Brady's the only QB in the league who has particular preferences about how his footballs are inflated (or deflated), and it's only the Patriots who try to indulge their franchise QB?

Yeah, right.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 01:54:02 PM by PhoSita »
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #954 on: May 06, 2015, 01:50:55 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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at halftime when the two refs apparently measured the patriots balls they differed by approximated 4% with some measurements differing by as much as .45PSI
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #955 on: May 06, 2015, 01:51:33 PM »

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My guess is fines to the franchise and major suspensions for Patriots middle men who play no major role with how the team plays on the field.

Suspending Brady would be an extreme move, though I'm sure the majority of people will want him to get suspended (and Belichick, too).  The findings just don't seem definitive enough to support suspending a team's best player, for even a single game.

I don't think there is any chance that Belicheck is suspended. However, I thought it was pretty weird Brady was giving a guy autographed jerseys and football and claiming he never talked to the guy. Lying to the NFL people about that could warrant a suspension. It is not the crime it is the cover up that will get him. Isn't that the saying?

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #956 on: May 06, 2015, 01:51:39 PM »

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My guess is fines to the franchise and major suspensions for Patriots middle men who play no major role with how the team plays on the field.

Suspending Brady would be an extreme move, though I'm sure the majority of people will want him to get suspended (and Belichick, too).  The findings just don't seem definitive enough to support suspending a team's best player, for even a single game.
The actual content of the report seems more [dang]ing than the one-paragraph conclusion, though. I'm guessing they had to tone it down, because the evidence is largely circumstantial. On the other hand, the type of evidence available appears comparable in type and scope to what we're seeing in the Hernandez trial, so go figure...
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #957 on: May 06, 2015, 01:53:09 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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My guess is fines to the franchise and major suspensions for Patriots middle men who play no major role with how the team plays on the field.

Suspending Brady would be an extreme move, though I'm sure the majority of people will want him to get suspended (and Belichick, too).  The findings just don't seem definitive enough to support suspending a team's best player, for even a single game.

I don't think there is any chance that Belicheck is suspended. However, I thought it was pretty weird Brady was giving a guy autographed jerseys and football and claiming he never talked to the guy. Lying to the NFL people about that could warrant a suspension. It is not the crime it is the cover up that will get him. Isn't that the saying?

That's a fair point.  If the NFL finds that Brady misled or lied to the investigators about what went on, that would be a solid ground to suspend him.

A suspension based entirely on such flimsy, circumstantial evidence, though, would be pretty weak.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #958 on: May 06, 2015, 01:53:46 PM »

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Did you guys read the text messages in the report? It actually seems pretty close to a smoking gun. I am a pats fan and thought this was all nonsense and was dead until I read this. I actually think Brady will get suspended.

A smoking gun for what?  Sounds like the refs overinflated the balls one week, and Brady got angry and got up the equipment managers' ass for it.  McNally sounds like a bit of a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. based on his texts, but some whiny texts about his boss is far from proof of intentional wrongdoing.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #959 on: May 06, 2015, 01:55:39 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Did you guys read the text messages in the report? It actually seems pretty close to a smoking gun. I am a pats fan and thought this was all nonsense and was dead until I read this. I actually think Brady will get suspended.

A smoking gun for what?  Sounds like the refs overinflated the balls one week, and Brady got angry and got up the equipment managers' ass for it.  McNally sounds like a bit of a **** based on his texts, but some whiny texts about his boss is far from proof of intentional wrongdoing.
While it is entirely plausible that the whole discussion is re: making sure the balls are not overinflated, it is at least indicative that Brady is more particular about the inflation level of game balls than he let on during the investigation...
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