#DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)

[D.o.s.]

If I was Kraft, I'd be peeved too.  That's multiple leaks that make his organization look bad.  Both, seemingly, coming from the NFL. 

That press conference certainly sounded like he was going all in that the Pats are innocent of any wrongdoing.  Awfully ballsy thing to do if you're lying.

Yeah, but people do it all the time (see Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, etc.).  Kraft didn't come off credible at all.  In fact no one has come off as credible for the Patriots.  (For the record, I am not a Patriots, Colts, or Seahawks fan so I could really care less about this from that perspective).

lance, roger, bonds etc were all taking major PEDs and never would have never been harassed for something as minor as this. some of those drugs lance was taking that increase blood oxygen levels are actually life-threatening, your body can overheat, causing death. bonds and clemens were so jacked up on steroids that their body types changed.
the ball pressure thing is more equivalent to if bonds had used illegal batting gloves or lance wore an illegal knee brace or something stupid like that. the league would tell them to stop doing it, the media would ignore it, and then it would be forgotten.
if this is the worst thing the patriots have (possibly) done, then that's pretty tame, the vikings and panthers were caught illegally tampering with balls this year and got no penalty, and the story didn't even really make the news.

This is a point I've brought up a couple times, and I don't know why the Patriots haven't brought it up. Brady, Belichick, Kraft, and every other Patriots defender should be demanding to know how the Vikings AND the Panthers could break the rules ON NATIONAL TV and not get punished, or investigated, or publicly excoriated. This ball-heating incident was such a nonevent, in fact, that I didn't hear about it until AFTER the Patriots kerfuffle. Ridiculous.

Why should they?  Pointing the fingers at other teams and saying "they're doing it too" or whatever just comes across as trying to deflect attention away. 

Addressing this thing head on and professing innocence is a much better approach then whining about teams' questionable tactics.

Just seems like an obvious thing that someone would point out at some point: "Wait, you're enforcing this rule? After we saw the Vikings and Panthers heating up balls on the sidelines, we didn't think the NFL cared about this rule anymore."

The Vikings & Panthers were heating up balls.  The Patriots are alleged to have under-inflated footballs. 

Two different things.

Different, yes, but both illegal according to the letter of the law. How can one be the subject of intense scrutiny and the other gets ignored?

Because there is a glaring double standard when it comes to the New England Patriots & a lot of other teams in the NFL.  Also, this is coming off a conference title game with the team advancing to the Super Bowl.  The other incidents occurred in the middle of the regular season

I've mentioned this before, if this was the Jacksonville Jaguars, you're not seeing nearly the same amount of media outrage.  But because it's Belichick & Brady and the Patriots, you get the witch hunt here.

Spygate & sustained success brought that about.  The first reason can be justified because the Pats brought that upon themselves & the latter is a lot of contempt rooted in jealousy.

If its the Jaguars you're not watching it unfold during the AFC title game anyway.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Quetzalcoatl and Donoghus: I get what you're saying about whining and deflecting—that would look bad, so it should be avoided. Fine.

I also get that the Pats have a huge target on their backs because of Brady, Belichick, and extended success.

But this is clearly a double standard, postseason or not. The Pats are being lambasted because they allegedly broke a rule that shouldn't even exist, and that the NFL has never seemed much inclined to enforce, and that is no more serious a violation than warming up balls on the sideline during a game on national TV.

Well, I think its a rule that should exist.  The parameters can certainly be worked out a bit (chain of custody of the balls, room temp to fill the balls, etc...) but I think there should be a minimum air pressure requirement for a football.  Like others have mentioned, the more deflated the ball, the easier it is to grip onto & catch.   In this instance, the difference has been compared to the weight of a dollar bill.   People aren't noticing that unless they're consciously looking for it, IMO.

I will agree that the media is making a mountain out of a molehill, though and the NFL isn't doing itself any favors with the leaks and relative silence on the matter.

I should clarify what I mean by "this rule shouldn't even exist."

I'm referring not to chain of custody, but to the "12.5–13.5 psi" rule. Every football fan knows that a ball has to have a certain minimum inflation to be usable, and that the whole "softer equals better grip" idea can be taken only so far—I mean, no quarterback is going to be able to throw a football that's literally inflated only halfway, like a flat tire. So maybe there should be a minimum, but that's probably lower than 12.5 psi. As long as it meets that low standard, let each QB have it the way he wants. I mean, imagine if MLB was so narrow as to say that bats could be only 33–34 ounces and only 36–37 inches long. In other words, MLB allows a lot of latitude with the tools of the trade, whereas the NFL doesn't.

[BballTim]

I agree, but if they supplied the balls and the balls were under-inflated, it's going to be hard to convince too many people of your innocence.

Except the officials are responsible for air pressure in all balls, so for all practical purposes they supplied them.

  I'm not sure "didn't inspect them closely enough to realize they weren't within spec" and "supplied them" mean the same thing. I've been saying all along that the officials probably didn't check the balls all that closely, and the (likely) erroneous assumption that they did led to the assumption that the Pats deflated the balls, but I don't think the Patriots were overly concerned about whether the balls they supplied met the minimum psi level.

[kozlodoev]

If its the Jaguars you're not watching it unfold during the AFC title game anyway.

The Carolina Panthers were pretty much caught red-handed tampering with balls during their game with the Vikings this season, and all that came out of this was a "warning"

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/11218/nfl-aware-of-game-ball-incident-during-panthers-vikings

[kozlodoev]

I agree, but if they supplied the balls and the balls were under-inflated, it's going to be hard to convince too many people of your innocence.

Except the officials are responsible for air pressure in all balls, so for all practical purposes they supplied them.

  I'm not sure "didn't inspect them closely enough to realize they weren't within spec" and "supplied them" mean the same thing. I've been saying all along that the officials probably didn't check the balls all that closely, and the (likely) erroneous assumption that they did led to the assumption that the Pats deflated the balls, but I don't think the Patriots were overly concerned about whether the balls they supplied met the minimum psi level.

Doesn't matter. The rulebook explicitly points out the officiating crew as a SOLE judge of whether game balls are conforming. Officials are in possession of a pressure gauge and a pump, and -- as shown in the video that has been making the rounds in 2013 -- are expected to measure and inflate/deflate balls as a part of the standard procedure of preparing them for kickoff.

Note that Belichick mentioned, in passing, that the Pats provide the balls to the officials and tell them they'd like them at 12.5. I found that bit particularly interesting, because it lines up with what was on that video: the officiating crew pretty much sets the pressure of the footballs, and teams may as well provide completely deflated balls for what it's worth.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I agree, but if they supplied the balls and the balls were under-inflated, it's going to be hard to convince too many people of your innocence.

Except the officials are responsible for air pressure in all balls, so for all practical purposes they supplied them.

  I'm not sure "didn't inspect them closely enough to realize they weren't within spec" and "supplied them" mean the same thing. I've been saying all along that the officials probably didn't check the balls all that closely, and the (likely) erroneous assumption that they did led to the assumption that the Pats deflated the balls, but I don't think the Patriots were overly concerned about whether the balls they supplied met the minimum psi level.

Doesn't matter. The rulebook explicitly points out the officiating crew as a SOLE judge of whether game balls are conforming. Officials are in possession of a pressure gauge and a pump, and -- as shown in the video that has been making the rounds in 2013 -- are expected to measure and inflate/deflate balls as a part of the standard procedure of preparing them for kickoff.

Note that Belichick mentioned, in passing, that the Pats provide the balls to the officials and tell them they'd like them at 12.5. I found that bit particularly interesting, because it lines up with what was on that video: the officiating crew pretty much sets the pressure of the footballs, and teams may as well provide completely deflated balls for what it's worth.

Yeah, this seems strange to me, too. And Aaron Rodgers said the refs always let air out of the balls that Green Bay supplies, and that he wishes they'd leave them alone, suggesting the Packers submit balls at a higher-than-acceptable psi—yet that seems to be okay?

[kozlodoev]

Yeah, this seems strange to me, too. And Aaron Rodgers said the refs always let air out of the balls that Green Bay supplies, and that he wishes they'd leave them alone, suggesting the Packers submit balls at a higher-than-acceptable psi—yet that seems to be okay?

Apparently. Even though I find Discount Doublecheat to be just as tacky as Belicheat.

[Donoghus]

I agree, but if they supplied the balls and the balls were under-inflated, it's going to be hard to convince too many people of your innocence.

Except the officials are responsible for air pressure in all balls, so for all practical purposes they supplied them.

  I'm not sure "didn't inspect them closely enough to realize they weren't within spec" and "supplied them" mean the same thing. I've been saying all along that the officials probably didn't check the balls all that closely, and the (likely) erroneous assumption that they did led to the assumption that the Pats deflated the balls, but I don't think the Patriots were overly concerned about whether the balls they supplied met the minimum psi level.

Doesn't matter. The rulebook explicitly points out the officiating crew as a SOLE judge of whether game balls are conforming. Officials are in possession of a pressure gauge and a pump, and -- as shown in the video that has been making the rounds in 2013 -- are expected to measure and inflate/deflate balls as a part of the standard procedure of preparing them for kickoff.

Note that Belichick mentioned, in passing, that the Pats provide the balls to the officials and tell them they'd like them at 12.5. I found that bit particularly interesting, because it lines up with what was on that video: the officiating crew pretty much sets the pressure of the footballs, and teams may as well provide completely deflated balls for what it's worth.

This is what baffles me and I've seen it brought up by a couple of members of the media but its somewhat flown under the radar so far (probably because the NFL remains quiet and doesn't necessarily fit the narrative being preached by much of the media) but if you buy the idea that this whole thing involved a sting, how could the NFL let their referees NOT use a pressure gauge and very well risk one of the teams playing the first half of a conference championship game with balls that could've very well not been at the minimum requirement?

In other words, you risk the integrity of the first half of a championship game in order to hope & catch a team in the act?

And to add to that, if there was a sting operation, how do you not follow the ball attendant inch for inch from the moment the balls were turned over by the referees until the moment they hit the filed? 

[BballTim]

I agree, but if they supplied the balls and the balls were under-inflated, it's going to be hard to convince too many people of your innocence.

Except the officials are responsible for air pressure in all balls, so for all practical purposes they supplied them.

  I'm not sure "didn't inspect them closely enough to realize they weren't within spec" and "supplied them" mean the same thing. I've been saying all along that the officials probably didn't check the balls all that closely, and the (likely) erroneous assumption that they did led to the assumption that the Pats deflated the balls, but I don't think the Patriots were overly concerned about whether the balls they supplied met the minimum psi level.

Doesn't matter. The rulebook explicitly points out the officiating crew as a SOLE judge of whether game balls are conforming. Officials are in possession of a pressure gauge and a pump, and -- as shown in the video that has been making the rounds in 2013 -- are expected to measure and inflate/deflate balls as a part of the standard procedure of preparing them for kickoff.

Note that Belichick mentioned, in passing, that the Pats provide the balls to the officials and tell them they'd like them at 12.5. I found that bit particularly interesting, because it lines up with what was on that video: the officiating crew pretty much sets the pressure of the footballs, and teams may as well provide completely deflated balls for what it's worth.

   If his story is that the officials inflated the balls to the pressure level that he requested then he's done a pretty poor job of getting that fact out.

[Rondo2287]

I agree, but if they supplied the balls and the balls were under-inflated, it's going to be hard to convince too many people of your innocence.

Except the officials are responsible for air pressure in all balls, so for all practical purposes they supplied them.

  I'm not sure "didn't inspect them closely enough to realize they weren't within spec" and "supplied them" mean the same thing. I've been saying all along that the officials probably didn't check the balls all that closely, and the (likely) erroneous assumption that they did led to the assumption that the Pats deflated the balls, but I don't think the Patriots were overly concerned about whether the balls they supplied met the minimum psi level.

Doesn't matter. The rulebook explicitly points out the officiating crew as a SOLE judge of whether game balls are conforming. Officials are in possession of a pressure gauge and a pump, and -- as shown in the video that has been making the rounds in 2013 -- are expected to measure and inflate/deflate balls as a part of the standard procedure of preparing them for kickoff.

Note that Belichick mentioned, in passing, that the Pats provide the balls to the officials and tell them they'd like them at 12.5. I found that bit particularly interesting, because it lines up with what was on that video: the officiating crew pretty much sets the pressure of the footballs, and teams may as well provide completely deflated balls for what it's worth.

   If his story is that the officials inflated the balls to the pressure level that he requested then he's done a pretty poor job of getting that fact out.

I  disagree completely that was one of the main takeaways from his Saturday press conference. 

[kozlodoev]

If his story is that the officials inflated the balls to the pressure level that he requested then he's done a pretty poor job of getting that fact out.

Following proper procedure, the officials have to make sure that all balls are conforming. Therefore every single ball should have been adjusted to be at least 12.5. It stands to reason that if the Pats have a preferred PSI within the conforming range, they'd set it to that. But in any case, it's standard procedure for the officials to have all the necessary tools and to actively use them in the process. And they are responsible that the balls that exit their locker room are conforming.

 This has been documented way before Deflategate came along, perhaps it's worth reposting the video here (it's from 2013):

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/22/deflategate-video-how-nfl-officials-check-game-ball-pressure/

[Cman]

I agree, but if they supplied the balls and the balls were under-inflated, it's going to be hard to convince too many people of your innocence.

Except the officials are responsible for air pressure in all balls, so for all practical purposes they supplied them.

  I'm not sure "didn't inspect them closely enough to realize they weren't within spec" and "supplied them" mean the same thing. I've been saying all along that the officials probably didn't check the balls all that closely, and the (likely) erroneous assumption that they did led to the assumption that the Pats deflated the balls, but I don't think the Patriots were overly concerned about whether the balls they supplied met the minimum psi level.

Doesn't matter. The rulebook explicitly points out the officiating crew as a SOLE judge of whether game balls are conforming. Officials are in possession of a pressure gauge and a pump, and -- as shown in the video that has been making the rounds in 2013 -- are expected to measure and inflate/deflate balls as a part of the standard procedure of preparing them for kickoff.

Note that Belichick mentioned, in passing, that the Pats provide the balls to the officials and tell them they'd like them at 12.5. I found that bit particularly interesting, because it lines up with what was on that video: the officiating crew pretty much sets the pressure of the footballs, and teams may as well provide completely deflated balls for what it's worth.

   If his story is that the officials inflated the balls to the pressure level that he requested then he's done a pretty poor job of getting that fact out.

I thought he did a decent job getting this out in the press conference. I think the media, on the other hand, has done a poor job of reporting on things like this, preferring instead to spin insinuation after insinuation.

At least this is the case for ESPN.

ESPN, by the way, stands for Extremely Sucky at rePorting the News.

[footey]

Very interesting article that certainly doesn't paint the Patriots in a very good light.

Makes it look like this isn't just an issue for this season.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

This article is not interesting. It is an insult to anyone (apparently not you) who has any idea how hard the Pats work at minimizing fumbles.  Not just in practices.  Punishing players (e.g. Ridley) who dare to lose possession just once.

  I think you'd have a hard time convincing people that BB cares significantly more about reducing turnovers than other coaches do, or that he cares significantly more about reducing turnovers than he did prior to 2007.

  Shouldn't the league supply all of the footballs, and shouldn't both teams play with the same footballs? They're setting themselves up for issues like this.

Yes of course the league should just supply the balls.

My point is that Belichick does a better job of coaching away turnovers, most other coaches pay lip service, but how many of them sit their best RB after one fumble? Frankly, I sometimes think Belichick goes overboard with his messages (e.g.., Jonah Gray benching), but when I read stats about Pats fumbling less, I attribute it to superior coaching and player selection, not having PSI levels down 1 point.

[footey]

I agree, but if they supplied the balls and the balls were under-inflated, it's going to be hard to convince too many people of your innocence.

Except the officials are responsible for air pressure in all balls, so for all practical purposes they supplied them.

  I'm not sure "didn't inspect them closely enough to realize they weren't within spec" and "supplied them" mean the same thing. I've been saying all along that the officials probably didn't check the balls all that closely, and the (likely) erroneous assumption that they did led to the assumption that the Pats deflated the balls, but I don't think the Patriots were overly concerned about whether the balls they supplied met the minimum psi level.

Doesn't matter. The rulebook explicitly points out the officiating crew as a SOLE judge of whether game balls are conforming. Officials are in possession of a pressure gauge and a pump, and -- as shown in the video that has been making the rounds in 2013 -- are expected to measure and inflate/deflate balls as a part of the standard procedure of preparing them for kickoff.

Note that Belichick mentioned, in passing, that the Pats provide the balls to the officials and tell them they'd like them at 12.5. I found that bit particularly interesting, because it lines up with what was on that video: the officiating crew pretty much sets the pressure of the footballs, and teams may as well provide completely deflated balls for what it's worth.

   If his story is that the officials inflated the balls to the pressure level that he requested then he's done a pretty poor job of getting that fact out.

I recall  he made  clear in the Saturday news conference that he did not know what level they actually inflated them, just that they requested 12.5.

[Neurotic Guy]

So if I am understanding this correctly (and please forgive me if I am stating the obvious), for the Patriots to have done something wrong, Tom Brady would have had to instruct an equipment manager to sneak the footballs into the bathroom after they'd been approved by the officials to then reduce the PSI in each football by about 1 to 2 PSI.


The statement above is based on the assumption that the Pats can deliver footballs to the officials that are not in compliance with PSI requirements and it is up to the officials to finalize the acceptance of the footballs. Further assumption is that if the officials were to approve a football that is out of compliance, it is the official, not the Patriots, who would be responsible.

It would not surprise me at all if Tom and the Pats deliver footballs to the officials that are below the required PSI.  In fact, if the point is that the teams have discretion regarding getting the footballs the way they want them, I would be surprised if the Pats, or any team, are focused on PSI as opposed to simply trying to get the footballs to match their quarterback's preferences. 

It would surprise me a lot if Tom (and I am assuming it could be no one other than Tom) would surrupticiously conspire with an equipment manager to do something so obviously against the rules -- and something that could so easily be detected or determined -- either by someone catching him in that act, or via an investigation.   If Brady did this, he should be severely reprimanded -- not only for the wrongness of it, but for manipulating an equipment manager to act on his request.    I do not believe it happened.


This has been a disgusting display of piling onto a rumor and I am jacked and pumped for this game even more than before.