Author Topic: #DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)  (Read 593994 times)

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #750 on: January 27, 2015, 10:32:15 AM »

Offline Moranis

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If I was Kraft, I'd be peeved too.  That's multiple leaks that make his organization look bad.  Both, seemingly, coming from the NFL. 

That press conference certainly sounded like he was going all in that the Pats are innocent of any wrongdoing.  Awfully ballsy thing to do if you're lying.
Yeah, but people do it all the time (see Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, etc.).  Kraft didn't come off credible at all.  In fact no one has come off as credible for the Patriots.  (For the record, I am not a Patriots, Colts, or Seahawks fan so I could really care less about this from that perspective).
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #751 on: January 27, 2015, 10:41:31 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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If I was Kraft, I'd be peeved too.  That's multiple leaks that make his organization look bad.  Both, seemingly, coming from the NFL. 

That press conference certainly sounded like he was going all in that the Pats are innocent of any wrongdoing.  Awfully ballsy thing to do if you're lying.
Yeah, but people do it all the time (see Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, etc.).  Kraft didn't come off credible at all.  In fact no one has come off as credible for the Patriots.  (For the record, I am not a Patriots, Colts, or Seahawks fan so I could really care less about this from that perspective).

Sure, people do it all the time. There are also plenty of people who actually have been innocent.  Now, I have no idea how this thing will settle when everything is said & done but to have the head coach have two press conferences about it, the starting QB have one, and now the owner?  All denying any guilt?  If they are actually guilty, this is one helluva leap of faith to be taking. 

However, you are an admitted Ravens fan, right?  Might be a little skewed, don't you you think?

EDIT:  And, full disclosure, I do root for the Pats.  Like to think I'm more level headed than a lot of Pats fans out there right now but I do root for them.


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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #752 on: January 27, 2015, 11:05:13 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Sure, people do it all the time. There are also plenty of people who actually have been innocent.  Now, I have no idea how this thing will settle when everything is said & done but to have the head coach have two press conferences about it, the starting QB have one, and now the owner?  All denying any guilt?  If they are actually guilty, this is one helluva leap of faith to be taking. 

Yeah, it would be ballsy.  It could be all are telling the truth, or one or more is lying (or, in Kraft's case, perhaps telling the truth as he knows it). 

I think it's impossible to tell from press conferences.  People lie all the time, regardless of the risk.  Let's say Belichek did it:  what are his options?  Stay silent, and everybody assumes guilt.  Admit it, and his legacy is trashed.  Or lie, and hope the league buys into it.  Of course, he'd say the same thing if he was innocent, as well.  It's just so hard to tell.

I don't think we can apply logic in terms of "why lie, when it would really suck if he got caught", though.  The most striking example to me was Bill Clinton, who lied directly and unequivocally to the American people (as well as under oath), despite huge potential consequences.


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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #753 on: January 27, 2015, 11:11:27 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Sure, people do it all the time. There are also plenty of people who actually have been innocent.  Now, I have no idea how this thing will settle when everything is said & done but to have the head coach have two press conferences about it, the starting QB have one, and now the owner?  All denying any guilt?  If they are actually guilty, this is one helluva leap of faith to be taking. 

Yeah, it would be ballsy.  It could be all are telling the truth, or one or more is lying (or, in Kraft's case, perhaps telling the truth as he knows it). 

I think it's impossible to tell from press conferences.  People lie all the time, regardless of the risk.  Let's say Belichek did it:  what are his options?  Stay silent, and everybody assumes guilt.  Admit it, and his legacy is trashed.  Or lie, and hope the league buys into it.  Of course, he'd say the same thing if he was innocent, as well.  It's just so hard to tell.

I don't think we can apply logic in terms of "why lie, when it would really suck if he got caught", though.  The most striking example to me was Bill Clinton, who lied directly and unequivocally to the American people (as well as under oath), despite huge potential consequences.

True & I think what we're seeing with reactions is that people's minds have been made up one way or another since the news broke last week.

And, besides a couple of leaks, the NFL has been quiet on the subject.  It's just amazing that this thing continues to drag out now 9 days later and Ted Wells is saying it probably will go on for several weeks. 


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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #754 on: January 27, 2015, 11:20:32 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I am incredulous that the NFL has chosen to drag this as much as they have. If they have (1) video of the balls taken from the officials' locker room to the field with a loo stopover, (2) the feed from 47 or so cameras on the field during the game, and (3) a plausible alternative scenario that can easily be replicated, they should be close to done.

The bottom line is that it appears that the balls can pretty much be tracked from inspection to the game. Will the NFL will be trying to convince us that one dude was able to doctor 12 footballs in 90 seconds in a bathroom (for the record, that's 7.5 secs per ball, not accounting for taking them out of the zipper bag and putting them back in)?!
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #755 on: January 27, 2015, 11:26:34 AM »

Offline danglertx

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I think we can all agree on one thing.  Regardless of if the Patriots did it, knew about it, or didn't do it at all and are completely innocent, someone at the NFL offices wants to make the Patriots look badly by selectively leaking information, some reportedly wrong, (or maybe not the NFL won't say,) that makes the Patriots look guilty.  Someone is intentionally and willfully trying to hurt the franchise, Mr. Kraft, and the value of the Patriots in the League Offices.  Let that sink in for a minute. 

This is why I'd now question even the facts when they do come out.  If the NFL came right out and said, hey ball #1 was inflated to X at halftime, ball #2 was Y, and so on and so on for all the balls on both the Colts and Patriots I'd have had no choice but to believe them.  The Ref should have come out right away and said, "hey I inflated or deflated each ball to X, I used this gauge, the balls weren't noticeably warm or cold for either team," but now it seems like he is in the witness protection program.  I don't trust anything the NFL says from here on out.  This has been horribly mismanaged.  Did the NFL let the Patriots play with under inflated footballs for the first half of the AFC Championship game?  If they did, it can't be a big deal or the NFL has literally no credibility.  If it isn't a big deal... what the heck is going on with a special investigator and a months long investigation planned.

I've been a big supporter of Goodell, but now whatever way this turns out, I think the NFL needs to be cleaned out, starting with a new commissioner.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #756 on: January 27, 2015, 11:28:01 AM »

Offline colincb

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Sure, people do it all the time. There are also plenty of people who actually have been innocent.  Now, I have no idea how this thing will settle when everything is said & done but to have the head coach have two press conferences about it, the starting QB have one, and now the owner?  All denying any guilt?  If they are actually guilty, this is one helluva leap of faith to be taking. 

Yeah, it would be ballsy.  It could be all are telling the truth, or one or more is lying (or, in Kraft's case, perhaps telling the truth as he knows it). 

I think it's impossible to tell from press conferences.  People lie all the time, regardless of the risk.  Let's say Belichek did it:  what are his options?  Stay silent, and everybody assumes guilt.  Admit it, and his legacy is trashed.  Or lie, and hope the league buys into it.  Of course, he'd say the same thing if he was innocent, as well.  It's just so hard to tell.

I don't think we can apply logic in terms of "why lie, when it would really suck if he got caught", though.  The most striking example to me was Bill Clinton, who lied directly and unequivocally to the American people (as well as under oath), despite huge potential consequences.

True & I think what we're seeing with reactions is that people's minds have been made up one way or another since the news broke last week.

And, besides a couple of leaks, the NFL has been quiet on the subject.  It's just amazing that this thing continues to drag out now 9 days later and Ted Wells is saying it probably will go on for several weeks.

Major problem to have people familiar with an investigation leaking information to the media. It happens, but it's never good and Goodell has been damaged by this. The NFL should have been in front of this and they should have speaking in one voice and not in whispers to ESPN and others.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #757 on: January 27, 2015, 11:29:06 AM »

Offline colincb

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I am incredulous that the NFL has chosen to drag this as much as they have. If they have (1) video of the balls taken from the officials' locker room to the field with a loo stopover, (2) the feed from 47 or so cameras on the field during the game, and (3) a plausible alternative scenario that can easily be replicated, they should be close to done.

The bottom line is that it appears that the balls can pretty much be tracked from inspection to the game. Will the NFL will be trying to convince us that one dude was able to doctor 12 footballs in 90 seconds in a bathroom (for the record, that's 7.5 secs per ball, not accounting for taking them out of the zipper bag and putting them back in)?!

TP

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #758 on: January 27, 2015, 11:35:47 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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This is why I'd now question even the facts when they do come out.  If the NFL came right out and said, hey ball #1 was inflated to X at halftime, ball #2 was Y, and so on and so on for all the balls on both the Colts and Patriots I'd have had no choice but to believe them.  The Ref should have come out right away and said, "hey I inflated or deflated each ball to X, I used this gauge, the balls weren't noticeably warm or cold for either team," but now it seems like he is in the witness protection program.  I don't trust anything the NFL says from here on out.  This has been horribly mismanaged.  Did the NFL let the Patriots play with under inflated footballs for the first half of the AFC Championship game?  If they did, it can't be a big deal or the NFL has literally no credibility.  If it isn't a big deal... what the heck is going on with a special investigator and a months long investigation planned.

What? we know what happened in regards to the disccovery of the ball. I've already quoted this once:

Quote
According to a person familiar with the background of the matter, the Colts first noticed something unusual after an interception by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson in the second quarter. Jackson gave the ball to a member of the Colts' equipment staff, who noticed the ball seemed underinflated and then notified coach Chuck Pagano.

General manager Ryan Grigson was notified in the press box, and he contacted Mike Kensil, NFL director of football operations. Kensil then told the on-field officials at halftime, when the Patriots led 17-7.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/super-bowl/nfl-opens-patriots-deflated-football-probe-after-afc-championship-win-1.9821346
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #759 on: January 27, 2015, 11:36:16 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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The bottom line is that it appears that the balls can pretty much be tracked from inspection to the game. Will the NFL will be trying to convince us that one dude was able to doctor 12 footballs in 90 seconds in a bathroom (for the record, that's 7.5 secs per ball, not accounting for taking them out of the zipper bag and putting them back in)?!

Apparently, at least one source is saying that that's actually plausible. 

Quote
So can 12 (or in this case 11) footballs be deflated in that amount of time?  One league source with extensive knowledge and experience in the NFL believes that 90 seconds provides enough time to do it — especially if the type of bag allowed the valves to be accessed without individually removing them.  (The bag in the photo, for example, has a large zipper that when open permits quick access to the balls.)

The source called it as “easy” thing to do. “Needle in each ball for a couple of seconds,” the source said.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/27/can-a-bag-of-footballs-be-deflated-in-90-seconds/

This is absurd at this point.


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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #760 on: January 27, 2015, 11:39:17 AM »

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At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #761 on: January 27, 2015, 11:39:19 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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This is absurd at this point.

You bet.


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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #762 on: January 27, 2015, 11:49:37 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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This is why I'd now question even the facts when they do come out.  If the NFL came right out and said, hey ball #1 was inflated to X at halftime, ball #2 was Y, and so on and so on for all the balls on both the Colts and Patriots I'd have had no choice but to believe them.  The Ref should have come out right away and said, "hey I inflated or deflated each ball to X, I used this gauge, the balls weren't noticeably warm or cold for either team," but now it seems like he is in the witness protection program.  I don't trust anything the NFL says from here on out.  This has been horribly mismanaged.  Did the NFL let the Patriots play with under inflated footballs for the first half of the AFC Championship game?  If they did, it can't be a big deal or the NFL has literally no credibility.  If it isn't a big deal... what the heck is going on with a special investigator and a months long investigation planned.

What? we know what happened in regards to the disccovery of the ball. I've already quoted this once:

Quote
According to a person familiar with the background of the matter, the Colts first noticed something unusual after an interception by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson in the second quarter. Jackson gave the ball to a member of the Colts' equipment staff, who noticed the ball seemed underinflated and then notified coach Chuck Pagano.

General manager Ryan Grigson was notified in the press box, and he contacted Mike Kensil, NFL director of football operations. Kensil then told the on-field officials at halftime, when the Patriots led 17-7.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/super-bowl/nfl-opens-patriots-deflated-football-probe-after-afc-championship-win-1.9821346
This version has already been called into question:

Quote
Reports have emerged during the past week that NFL teams, including the Colts, complained during the regular season and perhaps playoffs about the Patriots using underinflated footballs. Fox Sports' Jay Glazer reported that in response to those complaints, the league always planned on checking New England's footballs at halftime. ESPN's Ed Werder reiterated that suggestion on Twitter on Sunday.

When told of suspected cheating by #Pats, #NFL tried to catch them in act rather than reminding them of rules. Is something wrong with that?
— Ed Werder (@Edwerderespn) January 25, 2015

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/did-nfl-run-sting-operation-on-patriots-to-trigger-deflate-gate--051258575.html
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #763 on: January 27, 2015, 11:58:44 AM »

Offline rondohondo

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Mortenson was just on weei , some points he made

My reactions in parenthesis

- Colts didn't complain after the november game, waited until the day of AFC Championships.  Before games teams write down things for the refs to look out for (formations,substitutions, etc).

- He originally reported that 11 of 12 balls were 2 psi under, but it has since been reported that is not correct and that 10 of the balls were closer to 1 psi under

( very curious if the one 2psi under was the ball brought to the indy equipment guy)

- He kept asking why the colts balls were not under and the pats were . He says the colts like their balls at the lower end of the legal psi.

(I think you have to ask if the colts balls were filled out in the cold , while the pats were filled inside . Also do the colts keep their game balls near a heater or anything ? Do they rub the balls down that generates heat like the Pats say they did?)


Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #764 on: January 27, 2015, 12:01:14 PM »

Offline Moranis

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If I was Kraft, I'd be peeved too.  That's multiple leaks that make his organization look bad.  Both, seemingly, coming from the NFL. 

That press conference certainly sounded like he was going all in that the Pats are innocent of any wrongdoing.  Awfully ballsy thing to do if you're lying.
Yeah, but people do it all the time (see Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, etc.).  Kraft didn't come off credible at all.  In fact no one has come off as credible for the Patriots.  (For the record, I am not a Patriots, Colts, or Seahawks fan so I could really care less about this from that perspective).

Sure, people do it all the time. There are also plenty of people who actually have been innocent.  Now, I have no idea how this thing will settle when everything is said & done but to have the head coach have two press conferences about it, the starting QB have one, and now the owner?  All denying any guilt?  If they are actually guilty, this is one helluva leap of faith to be taking. 

However, you are an admitted Ravens fan, right?  Might be a little skewed, don't you you think?

EDIT:  And, full disclosure, I do root for the Pats.  Like to think I'm more level headed than a lot of Pats fans out there right now but I do root for them.
I am a Ravens fan, but again I don't think that has much to do with this situation.

I just don't find it as credible.  I mean if the Colts defensive player on an interception could immediately tell something was wrong with the ball, how the hell did none of the Patriots know this. 

Brady looks especially bad.  At one point saying he can't tell the difference, but at another saying he likes a softer ball.  Well which is it? 
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