Author Topic: #DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)  (Read 271851 times)

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #75 on: January 21, 2015, 11:09:51 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Okay, I might be extremely stupid/ignorant on this, but is everyone in this thread saying that a significant amount of air actually escapes from the ball when subjected to cold for a couple hours?

The pressure goes down when the ball enters the cold, but doesn't it go back up when it's re-warmed?
The 12th ball having the correct amount of pressure kind of screws them.

My guess is that's a "K" ball.
What they were saying on the radio is that "K" balls are handled separately from the 12 game balls used in regular play. Also the 12th ball was also under typical pressure, but not outside of the specificed range.

My guess is that it just didn't get as deflated as the others for whatever reason, deflator error if you will.

Could very well be the case.


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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #76 on: January 21, 2015, 11:16:47 AM »

Offline eja117

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Gronk has already figured it out. He's a better scientist than Neil deGrasse Tyson

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #77 on: January 21, 2015, 11:21:47 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I said it. I didn't know this information about the 12th ball being a K ball.
Teams usually have a separate ball for their kicking units. It is typically "straight out of the box" and pumped to the max, so that it's a little more slick and hard to handle. In contrast, QB balls are usually prepped for days in advance to wear them in a bit for better grip.

related:
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bucs/bucs-qb-johnson-paid-to-have-footballs-altered-before-sb-37/2214490
Quote
At the Super Bowl, the NFL had 100 footballs. They were new, slick and supposedly under the league's watchful eye. But not leaving anything to chance, Johnson made sure the balls were scuffed and ready well before the Dixie Chicks sang the national anthem.

"I paid some guys off to get the balls right," Johnson now admits. "I went and got all 100 footballs, and they took care of all of them."

How much did it cost Johnson? "Seventy-five hundred (dollars)," he said.

"They took care of them."

Johnson made the revelation several years ago, proir to the 10-year reunion of the Bucs' Super Bowl champion team.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #78 on: January 21, 2015, 11:23:35 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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So wait, teams bring their own balls to every game but the NFL supplies the SB balls? That's just odd.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #79 on: January 21, 2015, 11:29:15 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Bruce Allen of Boston Sports Media Watch with an absolutely epic rant.  Can't say I necessarily agree with everything but he does make some good points.  If nothing else, it's an entertaining read.  Hint:  It's not exactly objective.

Quote
Big Bad Bill Belichick.

He really does bring out the absolute worst in the media. Things that would be ignored, or laughed off if they were done by any other team, results in hysterical, hair-on-fire denunciations if the Patriots are involved.

He causes the media to become unable to think for themselves, and become subject to a mob mentality in which they are all sheep, following along with the loudest voices, and afraid to produce an original thought.

The NFL, specifically its Commissioner, is a laughingstock, pledging a transparent investigation, they instead allow late night leaks of salacious details to good olí boy reporters. They pledge to get all the details and facts from Foxboro when they canít even ascertain whether a video was received by the league office showing a player knocking a woman unconscious. They want us to trust their investigation when they hire a former associate to investigate themselves over said video incident.

As usual Roger Goodell has lost control of the situation, and will be in full reactionary mode once he decides to take action.

For Goodell, he can get himself into the good graces with the media by inflicting the harshest possible punishment upon Bill Belichick and the Patriots. This satisfies the bloodlust of the media and the public outside of New England, and gets Goodell back into the good graces of the media after his PR fiascos earlier in the season.

What Iím saying is be prepared for the worst possible outcome from this. Belichick suspended for Super Bowl? Entirely possible. Suspended for next season? Entirely possible. Multiple first round draft picks taken away? Entirely possible.

If, after all of that Robert Kraft kowtows to Goodell and tells us all what a great job heís doing one more time, Iím going to be gravely disappointed in him and what he stands for.
For making the football a bit softer so the QB could grip them better. (and thatís even speculation, we donít actually know the facts here yet, just that the balls were under regulation by 2 PSI.)
It doesnít matter that the best quarterback in the NFL told CBS earlier this season about liking to overinflate balls and pushing the limits and seeing if they can fool the officials, all so he can grip them better.

It doesnít matter that a two-time Super Bowl winning quarterback insists on his footballs being doctored for months before he will use them in a game because he wants to be comfortable gripping them.

It doesnít matter that a Super Bowl winning quarterback has admitted to paying $7500 to have the 100 footballs used in the Super Bowl he played in altered  so that he could grip them better.

It doesnít matter that the Minnesota Vikings and Carolina Panthers were using heaters to warm up footballs on the sidelines this season. (which would impact the hardness/grip of the football, by the way)

Nothing matters other than the fact that the Colts were getting their butts kicked and wanted to find a way to try and get in the Patriots heads. They didnít actually anticipate it going this far, very similar to the Jets when they reported the Patriots for taping in an incorrect spot.

Nothing matters other than the fact the owner of the Colts, coming off a season in which he was suspended for six games, gave a crony columnist a middle of the night tip, which initially the columnist thought to ignore, but instead decided that since it was the Patriots, heíd get a lot of play out of it, and ran with it, and now says Belichick should be suspended for the Super Bowl and is a national star.

Nothing matters other than the fact that Belichick isnít cuddly with the media, and most out there would like nothing more than to see him fired and disgraced, so theyíre put aside any objectivity they may (unlikely) have possessed and have gone all-in on the idea that this is a huge cheat masterminded by Bill Belichick who personally oversaw the deflation of the footballs. (also unlikely) Thatís the true endgame here.

The national media, in addition to the piling on of Belichick also goes after the fans who make the points above. They call it excuse making, and saying that those incidents donít matter because the rules were broken here, and the Patriots were caught. OK. Thatís legit. Punish them according to the severity of the alleged crime. But why canít the hypocrisy be pointed out at least? Weíre supposed to take this incident seriously Ė to the point of huge suspensions/punishments Ė but itís OK to completely ignore the other incidents that have taken place?
 
sometimes you can get lucky and put an extra half a pound of air in there to help Aaron Rodgers out.

Hypocrites. Cowards. Frauds.


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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #80 on: January 21, 2015, 11:32:23 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Also, there is this in the rulebook:

Quote
The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.

So, we should be expecting footage from one of the 47 or so cameras during the AFC final showing someone deflating a football.

This, or the actual truth is that no-one really uses a pressure gauge when inflating or inspecting a NFL football...
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #81 on: January 21, 2015, 11:38:04 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Bruce Allen of Boston Sports Media Watch with an absolutely epic rant.  Can't say I necessarily agree with everything but he does make some good points.  If nothing else, it's an entertaining read.  Hint:  It's not exactly objective.

Quote
Big Bad Bill Belichick.

He really does bring out the absolute worst in the media. Things that would be ignored, or laughed off if they were done by any other team, results in hysterical, hair-on-fire denunciations if the Patriots are involved.

He causes the media to become unable to think for themselves, and become subject to a mob mentality in which they are all sheep, following along with the loudest voices, and afraid to produce an original thought.

The NFL, specifically its Commissioner, is a laughingstock, pledging a transparent investigation, they instead allow late night leaks of salacious details to good olí boy reporters. They pledge to get all the details and facts from Foxboro when they canít even ascertain whether a video was received by the league office showing a player knocking a woman unconscious. They want us to trust their investigation when they hire a former associate to investigate themselves over said video incident.

As usual Roger Goodell has lost control of the situation, and will be in full reactionary mode once he decides to take action.

For Goodell, he can get himself into the good graces with the media by inflicting the harshest possible punishment upon Bill Belichick and the Patriots. This satisfies the bloodlust of the media and the public outside of New England, and gets Goodell back into the good graces of the media after his PR fiascos earlier in the season.

What Iím saying is be prepared for the worst possible outcome from this. Belichick suspended for Super Bowl? Entirely possible. Suspended for next season? Entirely possible. Multiple first round draft picks taken away? Entirely possible.

If, after all of that Robert Kraft kowtows to Goodell and tells us all what a great job heís doing one more time, Iím going to be gravely disappointed in him and what he stands for.
For making the football a bit softer so the QB could grip them better. (and thatís even speculation, we donít actually know the facts here yet, just that the balls were under regulation by 2 PSI.)
It doesnít matter that the best quarterback in the NFL told CBS earlier this season about liking to overinflate balls and pushing the limits and seeing if they can fool the officials, all so he can grip them better.

It doesnít matter that a two-time Super Bowl winning quarterback insists on his footballs being doctored for months before he will use them in a game because he wants to be comfortable gripping them.

It doesnít matter that a Super Bowl winning quarterback has admitted to paying $7500 to have the 100 footballs used in the Super Bowl he played in altered  so that he could grip them better.

It doesnít matter that the Minnesota Vikings and Carolina Panthers were using heaters to warm up footballs on the sidelines this season. (which would impact the hardness/grip of the football, by the way)

Nothing matters other than the fact that the Colts were getting their butts kicked and wanted to find a way to try and get in the Patriots heads. They didnít actually anticipate it going this far, very similar to the Jets when they reported the Patriots for taping in an incorrect spot.

Nothing matters other than the fact the owner of the Colts, coming off a season in which he was suspended for six games, gave a crony columnist a middle of the night tip, which initially the columnist thought to ignore, but instead decided that since it was the Patriots, heíd get a lot of play out of it, and ran with it, and now says Belichick should be suspended for the Super Bowl and is a national star.

Nothing matters other than the fact that Belichick isnít cuddly with the media, and most out there would like nothing more than to see him fired and disgraced, so theyíre put aside any objectivity they may (unlikely) have possessed and have gone all-in on the idea that this is a huge cheat masterminded by Bill Belichick who personally oversaw the deflation of the footballs. (also unlikely) Thatís the true endgame here.

The national media, in addition to the piling on of Belichick also goes after the fans who make the points above. They call it excuse making, and saying that those incidents donít matter because the rules were broken here, and the Patriots were caught. OK. Thatís legit. Punish them according to the severity of the alleged crime. But why canít the hypocrisy be pointed out at least? Weíre supposed to take this incident seriously Ė to the point of huge suspensions/punishments Ė but itís OK to completely ignore the other incidents that have taken place?
 
sometimes you can get lucky and put an extra half a pound of air in there to help Aaron Rodgers out.

Hypocrites. Cowards. Frauds.

This is a solid example of the time honored "well these other things are bad and didn't get punished so this thing that was bad shouldn't get punished either."

Also of note: there's literally no reason to take DeflateGate/Ballghazi seriously. That's entirely a bit of froth coming out of the mouth of Bruce Allen as his neck reddens and his veins bulge.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #82 on: January 21, 2015, 11:48:36 AM »

Offline eja117

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Bruce Allen of Boston Sports Media Watch with an absolutely epic rant.  Can't say I necessarily agree with everything but he does make some good points.  If nothing else, it's an entertaining read.  Hint:  It's not exactly objective.

Quote
Big Bad Bill Belichick.

He really does bring out the absolute worst in the media. Things that would be ignored, or laughed off if they were done by any other team, results in hysterical, hair-on-fire denunciations if the Patriots are involved.

He causes the media to become unable to think for themselves, and become subject to a mob mentality in which they are all sheep, following along with the loudest voices, and afraid to produce an original thought.

The NFL, specifically its Commissioner, is a laughingstock, pledging a transparent investigation, they instead allow late night leaks of salacious details to good olí boy reporters. They pledge to get all the details and facts from Foxboro when they canít even ascertain whether a video was received by the league office showing a player knocking a woman unconscious. They want us to trust their investigation when they hire a former associate to investigate themselves over said video incident.

As usual Roger Goodell has lost control of the situation, and will be in full reactionary mode once he decides to take action.

For Goodell, he can get himself into the good graces with the media by inflicting the harshest possible punishment upon Bill Belichick and the Patriots. This satisfies the bloodlust of the media and the public outside of New England, and gets Goodell back into the good graces of the media after his PR fiascos earlier in the season.

What Iím saying is be prepared for the worst possible outcome from this. Belichick suspended for Super Bowl? Entirely possible. Suspended for next season? Entirely possible. Multiple first round draft picks taken away? Entirely possible.

If, after all of that Robert Kraft kowtows to Goodell and tells us all what a great job heís doing one more time, Iím going to be gravely disappointed in him and what he stands for.
For making the football a bit softer so the QB could grip them better. (and thatís even speculation, we donít actually know the facts here yet, just that the balls were under regulation by 2 PSI.)
It doesnít matter that the best quarterback in the NFL told CBS earlier this season about liking to overinflate balls and pushing the limits and seeing if they can fool the officials, all so he can grip them better.

It doesnít matter that a two-time Super Bowl winning quarterback insists on his footballs being doctored for months before he will use them in a game because he wants to be comfortable gripping them.

It doesnít matter that a Super Bowl winning quarterback has admitted to paying $7500 to have the 100 footballs used in the Super Bowl he played in altered  so that he could grip them better.

It doesnít matter that the Minnesota Vikings and Carolina Panthers were using heaters to warm up footballs on the sidelines this season. (which would impact the hardness/grip of the football, by the way)

Nothing matters other than the fact that the Colts were getting their butts kicked and wanted to find a way to try and get in the Patriots heads. They didnít actually anticipate it going this far, very similar to the Jets when they reported the Patriots for taping in an incorrect spot.

Nothing matters other than the fact the owner of the Colts, coming off a season in which he was suspended for six games, gave a crony columnist a middle of the night tip, which initially the columnist thought to ignore, but instead decided that since it was the Patriots, heíd get a lot of play out of it, and ran with it, and now says Belichick should be suspended for the Super Bowl and is a national star.

Nothing matters other than the fact that Belichick isnít cuddly with the media, and most out there would like nothing more than to see him fired and disgraced, so theyíre put aside any objectivity they may (unlikely) have possessed and have gone all-in on the idea that this is a huge cheat masterminded by Bill Belichick who personally oversaw the deflation of the footballs. (also unlikely) Thatís the true endgame here.

The national media, in addition to the piling on of Belichick also goes after the fans who make the points above. They call it excuse making, and saying that those incidents donít matter because the rules were broken here, and the Patriots were caught. OK. Thatís legit. Punish them according to the severity of the alleged crime. But why canít the hypocrisy be pointed out at least? Weíre supposed to take this incident seriously Ė to the point of huge suspensions/punishments Ė but itís OK to completely ignore the other incidents that have taken place?
 
sometimes you can get lucky and put an extra half a pound of air in there to help Aaron Rodgers out.

Hypocrites. Cowards. Frauds.

This is a solid example of the time honored "well these other things are bad and didn't get punished so this thing that was bad shouldn't get punished either."

Also of note: there's literally no reason to take DeflateGate/Ballghazi seriously. That's entirely a bit of froth coming out of the mouth of Bruce Allen as his neck reddens and his veins bulge.
I see it differently. I see it as people in the NFL saying "I'm SHOCKED SHOCKED to find out a ball may have been deflated at some point!"  "Here's your illegal ball sir." "Oh thank you."

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #83 on: January 21, 2015, 12:02:14 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I think there's more aggrandizing "oh they're only making a big deal about it because it's the Patriots and everyone likes to see the Patriots fail" sentiment than there is "Oh Emm Geee They're Dirty Cheaters."


To be certain, there's far too much of both, but they're feeding each other in an annoying feedback loop of dumb stuff to kill time before the Super Bowl. As someone who has to pay attention to the NFL, it's actively hurting my brain.

Quote
For all the Patriots playoff games this year, my sons and I have all donned our No. 12 Tom Brady jerseys. We wore them because Brady is so darn good, so darn handsome and so full of the values of hard work and perseverance that you want your sports icons to embody. Or so we thought. Did he have any knowledge or any involvement in deflating footballs? Oh God, I hope not. But can I guarantee you that he didn't? Nope. Not even close. So how can I wear his jersey for the Super Bowl? I can't. At least I shouldn't. I know that.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/21/opinion/berman-patriots-deflate-gate/index.html

Seriously? I know you work for CNN (and as such are allowed to spout/embrace nonsense and platitudes 24-7) but you are a grown man with children. Get over it.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #84 on: January 21, 2015, 12:06:49 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I think there's more aggrandizing "oh they're only making a big deal about it because it's the Patriots and everyone likes to see the Patriots fail" sentiment than there is "Oh Emm Geee They're Dirty Cheaters."


To be certain, there's far too much of both, but they're feeding each other in an annoying feedback loop of dumb stuff to kill time before the Super Bowl. As someone who has to pay attention to the NFL, it's actively hurting my brain.

Quote
For all the Patriots playoff games this year, my sons and I have all donned our No. 12 Tom Brady jerseys. We wore them because Brady is so darn good, so darn handsome and so full of the values of hard work and perseverance that you want your sports icons to embody. Or so we thought. Did he have any knowledge or any involvement in deflating footballs? Oh God, I hope not. But can I guarantee you that he didn't? Nope. Not even close. So how can I wear his jersey for the Super Bowl? I can't. At least I shouldn't. I know that.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/21/opinion/berman-patriots-deflate-gate/index.html

Seriously? I know you work for CNN (and as such are allowed to spout/embrace nonsense and platitudes 24-7) but you are a grown man with children. Get over it.
I hate quoting WEEI's Jerry Thornton, because most of what he puts out is bush league, but this part is good:

Quote
Letís review, shall we?

Quarterback A, letís call him Aaron, admits he likes footballs that have more air pressure in them than the NFL allows and defies the officials to do anything about it. This story is repeated by a networkís No. 1 broadcast team as a funny little anecdote in the middle of a Patriots game, but no one can remember hearing it because it just wasnít that important. Aaron remains an adored media darling and his coach and team are revered throughout the land.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #85 on: January 21, 2015, 12:07:36 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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WALL OF VENOM (a Bruce Allen joint)

This is a solid example of the time honored "well these other things are bad and didn't get punished so this thing that was bad shouldn't get punished either."

The "Why this but not that?" defense is applicable to basically any issue in any conceivable circumstance, which is why it's so popular with hacks of the professional and amateur varieties.  My personal favorite recent use was that if you didn't travel back in time and boycott Donald Sterling when he did racist stuff decades ago, he gets a blank check to keep doing it in perpetuity.

It's fair to say this is getting an inordinate amount of attention and handwringing of all kinds, partly because it's the Patriots and partly because there's still 10 days to kill before the Superb Owl, but commonplace cheating is still cheating.  There's no way any of the ridiculous penalties ol' Angerbot up there is suggesting will come to pass though.  They'll just fine them and hopefully tighten up ball check procedures for the future.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 12:14:40 PM by foulweatherfan »

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #86 on: January 21, 2015, 12:08:50 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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They'll just fine them and hopefully tighten up ball check procedures for the future.

Must. Resist. Crass Michael Sam joke.

I have a hunch that Aaron Rodgers is in Goodell's personal gulag right now for saying that God doesn't care about football.  :D
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #87 on: January 21, 2015, 12:10:03 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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WALL OF VENOM

This is a solid example of the time honored "well these other things are bad and didn't get punished so this thing that was bad shouldn't get punished either."

The "Why this but not that?" defense is applicable to basically any issue in any conceivable circumstance, which is why it's so popular with hacks of the professional and amateur varieties.  My personal favorite recent use was that if you didn't travel back in time and boycott Donald Sterling when he did racist stuff decades ago, he gets a blank check to keep doing it in perpetuity.

It's fair to say this is getting an inordinate amount of attention, partly because it's the Patriots and partly because there's still 10 days to kill before the Superb Owl, but commonplace cheating is still cheating.  There's no way any of the ridiculous penalties ol' Angerbot up there is suggesting will come to pass though.  They'll just fine them and hopefully tighten up ball check procedures for the future.

When the heck did I say "WALL OF VENOM"?  If people are going to quote me, at least be accurate and don't edit my posts.


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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #88 on: January 21, 2015, 12:10:26 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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It's fair to say this is getting an inordinate amount of attention, partly because it's the Patriots and partly because there's still 10 days to kill before the Superb Owl, but commonplace cheating is still cheating.
So do you think that someone was sitting one the sidelines with a needle deflating balls (because the refs have the balls until the game starts)? And is it still "cheating" if the balls were, in fact, approved by the refs in this condition? The rulebook does say that the officiating crew is the sole authority on whether a football conforms with the necessary standards.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #89 on: January 21, 2015, 12:11:19 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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WALL OF VENOM

This is a solid example of the time honored "well these other things are bad and didn't get punished so this thing that was bad shouldn't get punished either."

The "Why this but not that?" defense is applicable to basically any issue in any conceivable circumstance, which is why it's so popular with hacks of the professional and amateur varieties.  My personal favorite recent use was that if you didn't travel back in time and boycott Donald Sterling when he did racist stuff decades ago, he gets a blank check to keep doing it in perpetuity.

It's fair to say this is getting an inordinate amount of attention, partly because it's the Patriots and partly because there's still 10 days to kill before the Superb Owl, but commonplace cheating is still cheating.  There's no way any of the ridiculous penalties ol' Angerbot up there is suggesting will come to pass though.  They'll just fine them and hopefully tighten up ball check procedures for the future.

When the heck did I say "WALL OF VENOM"?  If people are going to quote me, at least be accurate and don't edit my posts.

I think that's the quote box limiter thing that came with the forum redesign working nefarious magic.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.