Author Topic: #DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)  (Read 238669 times)

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2015, 08:26:43 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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If the Patriots inflate the balls with hot air, then give the officials the balls to check and after playing in 40 degree weather the balls cool and the PSI goes down, is that cheating?

Why weren't the Colts affected, then?

Plus, from what I understand, weather probably wouldn't account for losing 2 PSI in a few hours.

I have some minor degree of the sympathy for the "everyone is doing it" argument.  I think the "this wasn't intentional" justification is silly, though.


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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2015, 08:29:30 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Weren't the Showtime Era Lakers notorious for overinflating their basketballs because they thought long rebounds would help with their fastbreak game? 

As far as this goes, it's sounding more and more definitive that the Patriots deliberately underinflated the balls.  The game was such a blowout that there's no way it mattered to the outcome, but it's still cheating, albeit of a kind I think is more common than most.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2015, 08:36:19 AM »

Offline eja117

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When the Colts ran out of the way of LeGarret Blount that had everything to do with underinflated balls.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2015, 08:42:10 AM »

Offline eja117

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I think to determine what has happened we need video of a Pats ball boy deflating the ball. He has to be looking at the camera, holding up two forms of ID with his mother in the room saying "That's my boy".  Then I'll agree that the Pats absolutely cheated and need to be punished. Till then this is firmly in the realm of "It wasn't me. It was the one armed man" or "Many witnesses saw a second shooter on the grassy knoll" or "He was just a little confused when he drove off a bridge, walked across a whole island, never bothered to call from any of four houses including one right next to the bridge that was well lit, didn't notice the emergency phone near the ferry, swam across a very strong current late at night, walked all the way back to his hotel room, never called the police, was seen laughing at breakfast the next day, and never spent a day in jail" or "the CIA lost all its emails".

It's in that realm.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2015, 08:47:42 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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I didn't read much into it, so forgive me if I am wrong...

from what I understand, the home team presents 12 footballs to the ref to inspect before playing. With that being said, if what is said is true, that 11 out of 12 balls are deflated (sources: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2015/01/21/new-england-patriots-underinflated-balls-afc-championship-game/22087953/)

then shouldn't we blame the refs for not doing their job?

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2015, 08:51:14 AM »

Offline eja117

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During Panthers/Vikings this game, teams were shown on TV heating up the balls, against the rules. No punishment.
http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/11218/nfl-aware-of-game-ball-incident-during-panthers-vikings


Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2015, 08:59:49 AM »

Offline Kuberski33

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The NFL and pro sports in general is ultra competitive.  If you lose, you lose your job. Those at the top level of success in environments like that may and do occasionally push things too far.  Michael Jordan being an example - who had to get his competitive fix off the court by gambling - with huge amounts of money.

It works that way in sales too.  The top producers in a company often have personalities that the average producers can't relate too - and at times they can take things to the extreme.  Heck most of the NFL owners got where they are in life due to their ultra competitiveness in business.

Guessing Brady's the one who orchestrated this and we all know how competitive he is.  In the words of Belichick 'it is what it is". 

I think the people most offended by this have trouble relating to the ultra competitiveness thing. 

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2015, 09:00:05 AM »

Offline clover

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I think to determine what has happened we need video of a Pats ball boy deflating the ball. He has to be looking at the camera, holding up two forms of ID with his mother in the room saying "That's my boy".  Then I'll agree that the Pats absolutely cheated and need to be punished. Till then this is firmly in the realm of "It wasn't me. It was the one armed man" or "Many witnesses saw a second shooter on the grassy knoll" or "He was just a little confused when he drove off a bridge, walked across a whole island, never bothered to call from any of four houses including one right next to the bridge that was well lit, didn't notice the emergency phone near the ferry, swam across a very strong current late at night, walked all the way back to his hotel room, never called the police, was seen laughing at breakfast the next day, and never spent a day in jail" or "the CIA lost all its emails".

It's in that realm.

Here are some great stories on the life of a ball boy in the NFL, including Zach DeOssie's remembrances from his time with Bill Belichick and the Pats:

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/90206418/nfl-ball-boy-lessons-larry-fitzgerald-john-elway-philip-rivers

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2015, 09:00:39 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I didn't read much into it, so forgive me if I am wrong...

from what I understand, the home team presents 12 footballs to the ref to inspect before playing. With that being said, if what is said is true, that 11 out of 12 balls are deflated (sources: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2015/01/21/new-england-patriots-underinflated-balls-afc-championship-game/22087953/)

then shouldn't we blame the refs for not doing their job?

I think the argument is that the refs weighed them, they were conforming, and then at some point between that time (2+ hours before game time, for whatever reason) and halftime, they were tampered with.

The refs definitely have some explaining to do, though.  A referee handles the ball on literally every down.  Why didn't they notice the change in pressure, which was apparently pretty significant?  If the Colts defender and equipment manager could immediately tell something wasn't right, why couldn't the officials?


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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2015, 09:12:56 AM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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I didn't read much into it, so forgive me if I am wrong...

from what I understand, the home team presents 12 footballs to the ref to inspect before playing. With that being said, if what is said is true, that 11 out of 12 balls are deflated (sources: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2015/01/21/new-england-patriots-underinflated-balls-afc-championship-game/22087953/)

then shouldn't we blame the refs for not doing their job?

I think the argument is that the refs weighed them, they were conforming, and then at some point between that time (2+ hours before game time, for whatever reason) and halftime, they were tampered with.

The refs definitely have some explaining to do, though.  A referee handles the ball on literally every down.  Why didn't they notice the change in pressure, which was apparently pretty significant?  If the Colts defender and equipment manager could immediately tell something wasn't right, why couldn't the officials?

This is what I was thinking. Unlike the spying scandal, this had to pass through a 3rd party for approval. Not saying anyone is guilty or innocent, but I'm curious why this hasn't been mentioned in the main point of any argument with these recent articles.
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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2015, 09:15:15 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I didn't read much into it, so forgive me if I am wrong...

from what I understand, the home team presents 12 footballs to the ref to inspect before playing. With that being said, if what is said is true, that 11 out of 12 balls are deflated (sources: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2015/01/21/new-england-patriots-underinflated-balls-afc-championship-game/22087953/)

then shouldn't we blame the refs for not doing their job?

I think the argument is that the refs weighed them, they were conforming, and then at some point between that time (2+ hours before game time, for whatever reason) and halftime, they were tampered with.

The refs definitely have some explaining to do, though.  A referee handles the ball on literally every down.  Why didn't they notice the change in pressure, which was apparently pretty significant?  If the Colts defender and equipment manager could immediately tell something wasn't right, why couldn't the officials?

This is what I was thinking. Unlike the spying scandal, this had to pass through a 3rd party for approval. Not saying anyone is guilty or innocent, but I'm curious why this hasn't been mentioned in the main point of any argument with these recent articles.

Graham Gano (Panthers kicker) was saying on Twitter that he's asked the refs to check ball pressure mid-game and they've told him they can't.  They may not be allowed to recheck after the initial inspection.

"During our home playoff game this year I asked the official if he could check the psi outside again bc the ball felt flat and he..."  "...said he could not. I guess you can't blame the official for that. Rules are rules. Maybe the league will make some changes this...

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2015, 09:20:41 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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I didn't read much into it, so forgive me if I am wrong...

from what I understand, the home team presents 12 footballs to the ref to inspect before playing. With that being said, if what is said is true, that 11 out of 12 balls are deflated (sources: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2015/01/21/new-england-patriots-underinflated-balls-afc-championship-game/22087953/)

then shouldn't we blame the refs for not doing their job?

I think the argument is that the refs weighed them, they were conforming, and then at some point between that time (2+ hours before game time, for whatever reason) and halftime, they were tampered with.

The refs definitely have some explaining to do, though.  A referee handles the ball on literally every down.  Why didn't they notice the change in pressure, which was apparently pretty significant?  If the Colts defender and equipment manager could immediately tell something wasn't right, why couldn't the officials?

This is what I was thinking. Unlike the spying scandal, this had to pass through a 3rd party for approval. Not saying anyone is guilty or innocent, but I'm curious why this hasn't been mentioned in the main point of any argument with these recent articles.

Graham Gano (Panthers kicker) was saying on Twitter that he's asked the refs to check ball pressure mid-game and they've told him they can't.  They may not be allowed to recheck after the initial inspection.

"During our home playoff game this year I asked the official if he could check the psi outside again bc the ball felt flat and he..."  "...said he could not. I guess you can't blame the official for that. Rules are rules. Maybe the league will make some changes this...

thanks, it's making a little bit more sense now. So during game time, who takes care of the footballs? the refs? How is it that they got tampered with "easily"? And this is the AFC championship game, shouldn't the refs be on top of their game and assuming that only very experienced refs officiate these kind of playoff games?

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2015, 09:29:31 AM »

Offline footey

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This is what I suspect happened:

The Pats filled the balls with warm air before the game start, and the specs checked out.  As the air inside the balls condensed due to the cold weather, the air pressure dropped. 

Whether or not the NFL has rules governing the temperature of the air inside the balls is beyond me, but this seems the most logical explanation of what happened, unless someone comes forward and says they deflated the balls during the game, or a video is produced showing that they did.


Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2015, 09:35:30 AM »

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Wanna wait until the league presents their findings but certainly doesn't look good for the Pats.

Of course, in the court of public opinion, they've been guilty on everything going back almost 8 years now.  Whatever the league says really won't change that. 

Still a lot of questions here that Mort's report don't answer.  Some questions of checks & balances here and whether the deflated balls were intentional or as a result of nature. 

Like I mentioned in the other thread, deflated balls definitely help in the passing game and I've certainly be a part of teams who have engaged in it.  Certainly not anywhere near the level of NFL football, though.


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