If Celtics landed the 2015 #1 draft pick, would u trade it for DeMarcus Cousins?

[KeepRondo]

Has Cousins turned Sacramento into a winner?

No, but neither did Kobe Bean Bryant, in the mid 2000's.

And then Kobe got players around him (Odom, Gasol, Bynum, etc) that turned that around for him.

Yeah but normally dominant bigs are able to at least get their team to play 500 ball.

What about KG in 2005-2007?  Over that stretch, the Twolves missed the playoffs each year, going a combined 109-137.

Was KG not dominant during that stretch?  Was he not worth trading for?

oh come on. That is weak. I expect better from you. Those were two losing seasons out of how many? KG had that team on his back for many more. When has Cousins ever shown he can put a team on his back?

[Roy H.]

I never held it against Kevin Love that he never made the playoffs in Minnesota, but some people used that as a talking point for why Love wasn't that good.  Love spent six seasons in Minny.  He started less than 40 games in his first two and had an 18-game season cut short by injury.  This is very likely going to be Cousins' fifth season as a full-time starter without making the playoffs.

Would people who want Cousins now be hypocrites if they cited a lack of leading his team to the post-season as a reason against chasing after Love?

Not necessarily.  If they argued that Kevin Love's game isn't conducive to winning, I'd see that as a separate argument, and one that I'm becoming a bit sympathetic to after watching his complete disinterest in playing defense in Cleveland.

[Roy H.]

Has Cousins turned Sacramento into a winner?

No, but neither did Kobe Bean Bryant, in the mid 2000's.

And then Kobe got players around him (Odom, Gasol, Bynum, etc) that turned that around for him.

Yeah but normally dominant bigs are able to at least get their team to play 500 ball.

What about KG in 2005-2007?  Over that stretch, the Twolves missed the playoffs each year, going a combined 109-137.

Was KG not dominant during that stretch?  Was he not worth trading for?

oh come on. That is weak. I expect better from you. Those were two losing seasons out of how many? KG had that team on his back for many more. When has Cousins ever shown he can put a team on his back?

Ha.  Condescend much?

If dominant big men always lead their teams to the playoffs, why was KG -- one of the most dominant big men of all-time -- shut out of the playoffs for three years in a row?  Why was he the centerpiece on a lower-tier lottery team?

Very few players are going to win unless they're surrounded by competent teammates.

[Celtics4ever]

I never held it against Kevin Love that he never made the playoffs in Minnesota, but some people used that as a talking point for why Love wasn't that good.  Love spent six seasons in Minny.  He started less than 40 games in his first two and had an 18-game season cut short by injury.  This is very likely going to be Cousins' fifth season as a full-time starter without making the playoffs

Do you still think that Love is a leader after seeing him in CLE?   Just curious.

[LooseCannon]

I never held it against Kevin Love that he never made the playoffs in Minnesota, but some people used that as a talking point for why Love wasn't that good.  Love spent six seasons in Minny.  He started less than 40 games in his first two and had an 18-game season cut short by injury.  This is very likely going to be Cousins' fifth season as a full-time starter without making the playoffs

Do you still think that Love is a leader after seeing him in CLE?   Just curious.

I still think he is a talent who it would be reasonable to offer a max contract to.  That being said, I've probably switched to Paul Millsap as the guy I would most like to target in free agency.

[KeepRondo]

Has Cousins turned Sacramento into a winner?

No, but neither did Kobe Bean Bryant, in the mid 2000's.

And then Kobe got players around him (Odom, Gasol, Bynum, etc) that turned that around for him.

Yeah but normally dominant bigs are able to at least get their team to play 500 ball.

What about KG in 2005-2007?  Over that stretch, the Twolves missed the playoffs each year, going a combined 109-137.

Was KG not dominant during that stretch?  Was he not worth trading for?

oh come on. That is weak. I expect better from you. Those were two losing seasons out of how many? KG had that team on his back for many more. When has Cousins ever shown he can put a team on his back?

Ha.  Condescend much?

If dominant big men always lead their teams to the playoffs, why was KG -- one of the most dominant big men of all-time -- shut out of the playoffs for three years in a row?  Why was he the centerpiece on a lower-tier lottery team?

Very few players are going to win unless they're surrounded by competent teammates.

I think you should look in the mirror regarding this superiority complex you think I have.

And btw

I said normally. You then choose two losing seasons out of how many?

I also never said one big will make you a playoff contender.

[Celtics4ever]

That being said, I've probably switched to Paul Millsap as the guy I would most like to target in free agency.

I could live with that.

[FreddieJ]

Has Cousins turned Sacramento into a winner?

Managements job, not his. They are much worse without him.

[FreddieJ]

No.  Stay away!!!

The guy is poison.  Mentally weak/unstable.  Heck, I wouldn't even trade Bass for Cousins.

Don't need Cousins to win Championships - of that I am sure.

Unstable? Maybe. We can debate that.

Emotional? Without question, though so is KG and plenty of other great players.

Mentally weak? No. Just...no. Guys who are mentally weak don't improve their game every single year like Cousins' has, especially not improving every single aspect of it. He's improved virtually everything - scoring, rebounding, passing, free throw shooting, defense, etc. - since he's come into the league. You just don't work that hard and improve like that if you're mentally weak. His improvement tells me that this guy is motivated. Maybe he doesn't always channel it in the best way, but he plays hard.

In that way he reminds me a bit of Rasheed Wallace, another volatile guy (though 'Sheed was far worse both on and off the court). But you didn't question Wallace's desire to win - he worked his ass off and improved his game over the years - and he helped Detroit win it all. Cousins not only doesn't have the same baggage, he's a better player to boot.

I don't like the Sheed comparison.

Rasheed Wallace in his prime was 10 times better on D then Cousins. He also had a better all around game and players wanted to play with him. He was well liked.

Cousins is a good defender who has never been linked to being a locker room problem. He is also a far superior scorer, rebounder, passer etc., yes it is a bad comparison

[rondohondo]

No.  Stay away!!!

The guy is poison.  Mentally weak/unstable.  Heck, I wouldn't even trade Bass for Cousins.

Don't need Cousins to win Championships - of that I am sure.

Unstable? Maybe. We can debate that.

Emotional? Without question, though so is KG and plenty of other great players.

Mentally weak? No. Just...no. Guys who are mentally weak don't improve their game every single year like Cousins' has, especially not improving every single aspect of it. He's improved virtually everything - scoring, rebounding, passing, free throw shooting, defense, etc. - since he's come into the league. You just don't work that hard and improve like that if you're mentally weak. His improvement tells me that this guy is motivated. Maybe he doesn't always channel it in the best way, but he plays hard.

In that way he reminds me a bit of Rasheed Wallace, another volatile guy (though 'Sheed was far worse both on and off the court). But you didn't question Wallace's desire to win - he worked his ass off and improved his game over the years - and he helped Detroit win it all. Cousins not only doesn't have the same baggage, he's a better player to boot.

I don't like the Sheed comparison.

Rasheed Wallace in his prime was 10 times better on D then Cousins. He also had a better all around game and players wanted to play with him. He was well liked.

Cousins is a good defender who has never been linked to being a locker room problem. He is also a far superior scorer, rebounder, passer etc., yes it is a bad comparison

good defender? The guy doesn't even run back on defense . Especially if he thinks he is fouled , he just straight up quits on the play and won't even run back . I have seen this numerous times in numerous games . Unless we are bringing in other vets that can keep him in line, stay FAR away from this knucklehead .

[FreddieJ]

No.  Stay away!!!

The guy is poison.  Mentally weak/unstable.  Heck, I wouldn't even trade Bass for Cousins.

Don't need Cousins to win Championships - of that I am sure.

Unstable? Maybe. We can debate that.

Emotional? Without question, though so is KG and plenty of other great players.

Mentally weak? No. Just...no. Guys who are mentally weak don't improve their game every single year like Cousins' has, especially not improving every single aspect of it. He's improved virtually everything - scoring, rebounding, passing, free throw shooting, defense, etc. - since he's come into the league. You just don't work that hard and improve like that if you're mentally weak. His improvement tells me that this guy is motivated. Maybe he doesn't always channel it in the best way, but he plays hard.

In that way he reminds me a bit of Rasheed Wallace, another volatile guy (though 'Sheed was far worse both on and off the court). But you didn't question Wallace's desire to win - he worked his ass off and improved his game over the years - and he helped Detroit win it all. Cousins not only doesn't have the same baggage, he's a better player to boot.

I don't like the Sheed comparison.

Rasheed Wallace in his prime was 10 times better on D then Cousins. He also had a better all around game and players wanted to play with him. He was well liked.

Cousins is a good defender who has never been linked to being a locker room problem. He is also a far superior scorer, rebounder, passer etc., yes it is a bad comparison

good defender? The guy doesn't even run back on defense . Especially if he thinks he is fouled , he just straight up quits on the play and won't even run back . I have seen this numerous times in numerous games . Unless we are bringing in other vets that can keep him in line, stay FAR away from this knucklehead .

I respect if you don't want him on the Celts, but I would ask if your impressions were clouded by the performance in Boston a few weeks back that to keep in mind Cousins was coming back early from meningitis, just lost his coach, and was not straight.

This article was posted on a Kings fans site that I think explains Cousins impact as a player

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2322776-demarcus-cousins-should-be-in-the-nba-mvp-conversation

[KeepRondo]

No.  Stay away!!!

The guy is poison.  Mentally weak/unstable.  Heck, I wouldn't even trade Bass for Cousins.

Don't need Cousins to win Championships - of that I am sure.

Unstable? Maybe. We can debate that.

Emotional? Without question, though so is KG and plenty of other great players.

Mentally weak? No. Just...no. Guys who are mentally weak don't improve their game every single year like Cousins' has, especially not improving every single aspect of it. He's improved virtually everything - scoring, rebounding, passing, free throw shooting, defense, etc. - since he's come into the league. You just don't work that hard and improve like that if you're mentally weak. His improvement tells me that this guy is motivated. Maybe he doesn't always channel it in the best way, but he plays hard.

In that way he reminds me a bit of Rasheed Wallace, another volatile guy (though 'Sheed was far worse both on and off the court). But you didn't question Wallace's desire to win - he worked his ass off and improved his game over the years - and he helped Detroit win it all. Cousins not only doesn't have the same baggage, he's a better player to boot.

I don't like the Sheed comparison.

Rasheed Wallace in his prime was 10 times better on D then Cousins. He also had a better all around game and players wanted to play with him. He was well liked.

Cousins is a good defender who has never been linked to being a locker room problem. He is also a far superior scorer, rebounder, passer etc., yes it is a bad comparison

good defender? The guy doesn't even run back on defense . Especially if he thinks he is fouled , he just straight up quits on the play and won't even run back . I have seen this numerous times in numerous games . Unless we are bringing in other vets that can keep him in line, stay FAR away from this knucklehead .

+1 

He's also a bad help and weak side defender in general.

That dude needs a veteran coach who we don't have and other all stars who he will actually listen to.

[KeepRondo]

No.  Stay away!!!

The guy is poison.  Mentally weak/unstable.  Heck, I wouldn't even trade Bass for Cousins.

Don't need Cousins to win Championships - of that I am sure.

Unstable? Maybe. We can debate that.

Emotional? Without question, though so is KG and plenty of other great players.

Mentally weak? No. Just...no. Guys who are mentally weak don't improve their game every single year like Cousins' has, especially not improving every single aspect of it. He's improved virtually everything - scoring, rebounding, passing, free throw shooting, defense, etc. - since he's come into the league. You just don't work that hard and improve like that if you're mentally weak. His improvement tells me that this guy is motivated. Maybe he doesn't always channel it in the best way, but he plays hard.

In that way he reminds me a bit of Rasheed Wallace, another volatile guy (though 'Sheed was far worse both on and off the court). But you didn't question Wallace's desire to win - he worked his ass off and improved his game over the years - and he helped Detroit win it all. Cousins not only doesn't have the same baggage, he's a better player to boot.

I don't like the Sheed comparison.

Rasheed Wallace in his prime was 10 times better on D then Cousins. He also had a better all around game and players wanted to play with him. He was well liked.

Cousins is a good defender who has never been linked to being a locker room problem. He is also a far superior scorer, rebounder, passer etc., yes it is a bad comparison

good defender? The guy doesn't even run back on defense . Especially if he thinks he is fouled , he just straight up quits on the play and won't even run back . I have seen this numerous times in numerous games . Unless we are bringing in other vets that can keep him in line, stay FAR away from this knucklehead .

I respect if you don't want him on the Celts, but I would ask if your impressions were clouded by the performance in Boston a few weeks back that to keep in mind Cousins was coming back early from meningitis, just lost his coach, and was not straight.

This article was posted on a Kings fans site that I think explains Cousins impact as a player

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2322776-demarcus-cousins-should-be-in-the-nba-mvp-conversation

He has top 10 talent but it's going to take a lot to get it out of him. And then you have to wonder about consistency and if he won't quit on your team.

[Roy H.]

No.  Stay away!!!

The guy is poison.  Mentally weak/unstable.  Heck, I wouldn't even trade Bass for Cousins.

Don't need Cousins to win Championships - of that I am sure.

Unstable? Maybe. We can debate that.

Emotional? Without question, though so is KG and plenty of other great players.

Mentally weak? No. Just...no. Guys who are mentally weak don't improve their game every single year like Cousins' has, especially not improving every single aspect of it. He's improved virtually everything - scoring, rebounding, passing, free throw shooting, defense, etc. - since he's come into the league. You just don't work that hard and improve like that if you're mentally weak. His improvement tells me that this guy is motivated. Maybe he doesn't always channel it in the best way, but he plays hard.

In that way he reminds me a bit of Rasheed Wallace, another volatile guy (though 'Sheed was far worse both on and off the court). But you didn't question Wallace's desire to win - he worked his ass off and improved his game over the years - and he helped Detroit win it all. Cousins not only doesn't have the same baggage, he's a better player to boot.

I don't like the Sheed comparison.

Rasheed Wallace in his prime was 10 times better on D then Cousins. He also had a better all around game and players wanted to play with him. He was well liked.

Cousins is a good defender who has never been linked to being a locker room problem. He is also a far superior scorer, rebounder, passer etc., yes it is a bad comparison

good defender? The guy doesn't even run back on defense . Especially if he thinks he is fouled , he just straight up quits on the play and won't even run back . I have seen this numerous times in numerous games . Unless we are bringing in other vets that can keep him in line, stay FAR away from this knucklehead .

This isn't even close to accurate.

At least as of a couple days ago, the Kings starting lineup of Cousins-Thompson-Gay-McLemore-Collison is statistically the best defensive lineup in the NBA, allowing 88.6 points per 100 possessions. 



Cousins is averaging 1.6 blocks and 1.3 steals, while dominating in defensive rebounding (second in the league in DRB%).  He's allowing 46.8% shooting at the rim, which ranks near the top of the league for guys who defend as many shots as Cousins does.  (The only guys better than him at the rim this year, among the top-25 in terms of volume of shots defensed, are Howard, Hibbert, Ibaka, and Duncan.)  He's also fifth in the league in Defensive Real Plus Minus.

Cousins has been an elite defender this year, and should be a legit candidate for DPOY.

[Granath]

Has Cousins turned Sacramento into a winner?

No, but neither did Kobe Bean Bryant, in the mid 2000's.

And then Kobe got players around him (Odom, Gasol, Bynum, etc) that turned that around for him.

Yeah but normally dominant bigs are able to at least get their team to play 500 ball.

What about KG in 2005-2007?  Over that stretch, the Twolves missed the playoffs each year, going a combined 109-137.

Was KG not dominant during that stretch?  Was he not worth trading for?

oh come on. That is weak. I expect better from you. Those were two losing seasons out of how many? KG had that team on his back for many more. When has Cousins ever shown he can put a team on his back?

Ha.  Condescend much?

If dominant big men always lead their teams to the playoffs, why was KG -- one of the most dominant big men of all-time -- shut out of the playoffs for three years in a row?  Why was he the centerpiece on a lower-tier lottery team?

Very few players are going to win unless they're surrounded by competent teammates.

I think you should look in the mirror regarding this superiority complex you think I have.

And btw

I said normally. You then choose two losing seasons out of how many?

I also never said one big will make you a playoff contender.

Nice try changing the goal line. Didn't work. You made the statement, he backed it up with an example. You lost.

Look, no one is claiming that Cousins is as good as Garnett in his prime. There's probably only about 20 players in their primes that were as good as Garnett. Garnett's winning percentage at Minny was 55%, or a typical 44-38 season. That's not great and the West wasn't as strong then as it is now. So if Garnett was barely able to keep Minny at .500 as great as player as he was, then expecting Cousins to do it when -  (1) and he's not as good; (2) the West is stronger now; and (3) Sac is one of the most dysfunctional organizations in recent NBA history - is pretty ludicrous.

Bob McAdoo lost most of his career. Did he suck? Mutombo lost at Denver. Did he suck? Robert Parish lost at Golden State. Did he suck? The Pistons had losing seasons 4 out of the 7 years Bob Lanier led them in Win Shares. Did he suck? Willis Reed had a losing record 3 years in a row. How about him? Nate Thurmond? Artis Gilmore? History is replete with big men who couldn't get their teams to .500. You'd cut off your right arm and give the #1 overall pick for every single guy I mentioned.

There's reasons to question Cousins. No doubt. But the fact that his team isn't very good isn't really one of them.