Author Topic: In retrospect what do you now think about the PSU scandal?  (Read 21190 times)

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Offline eja117

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This is the kind of thing I'm seeing on my facebook feed like every single day, sometimes multiple times a day for years now. I'm highlighting it only to keep it separate from my thoughts. You guys already know I'm crazy.


While we're stepping on the neck of the NCAA today, here's what I'd want (note: I have a completely separate list for our BoT which we'll tackle on another day). What's your list of NCAA demands?
1.NCAA retraction and apology for Julie Roe’s contention that "Penn State had great success on the field from 1998-2012 and those wins were based on a pristine image which was a lie. As a result, those wins need to be taken away.”
2.Public apology on national television by Mark Emmert acknowledging that the NCAA was wrong in indicting the entire Penn State culture for the crimes of just one man, Jerry Sandusky. An apology that an overreach in sanctions contributed to a patently false narrative that has unfortunately been cemented in minds across America. And, a plea to journalists, through this lesson learned, that no matter the public outcry, it is far more important to get the story right, than to act in haste. Better to delay the punishment of the correct individual than to hastily punish those who are undeserving.
3.Acknowledgement that the Penn State culture has always been exemplary in its dedication to academics and athletics, noting that the athletic program has NEVER had one single NCAA infraction or violation, and has consistently ranked at the top for athlete graduation rates, as well as highest GPAs/most honors for students across all college sports. Apology to former and current Penn State football players and coaches, former and current staff and faculty, alumni, current students, the greater State College community for unfairly blaming, penalizing and crippling them.
4.Post the NCAA apology PROMINENTLY in the front page of the NCAA website, just as they did the Consent Decree.
5.Establish a new award to be given by the NCAA (with annual input from the Paterno family and a panel of former Penn State lettermen), called the Paterno “Grand Experiment” Award, recognizing one program annually that exemplifies the key characteristics of Paterno’s incomparable philosophy of integrity, academic excellence, athletic achievement, and success with honor.
6.Long-form, one-on-one interview with Mark Emmert on general consumer news programming such as Sixty Minutes or 20/20, expressing all speaking points above. ESPN's Outside the Lines is not good enough.
7.Together with the Paternos, meet with Brian DePalma and Al Pacino and set the narrative straight for the purposes of the proposed Happy Valley movie, ultimately ensuring that Paterno AND Penn State are portrayed in a manner acceptable to both.


That's right. There are people out there that want the world to apologize TO Penn State. It's not enough for some of them to have sanctions lifted and all that. They want the world to apologize to Penn State and acknowledge PSU is just so awesome.

I'd settle for "Maybe we were a tad harsh and shoulda waited longer to really figure things out. Maybe it was a tad more complicated than we thought. But seriously. Things looked really really bad. Now let's wait for the trial".

If I'm the NCAA I'm not making the same mistake twice. I'm like "You're right. There wasn't enough due process. So let's wait for it. Let's go to trial. Let's wait for results."

Offline eja117

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And a program that was inextricably linked to child abuse. There's an easy joke about Catholicism in here, somewhere.
Spppeeeakking of that....remember when the Diocese of Boston was having a very tough year and then all of a sudden out of nowhere Boston College dishes out like $20 mill for a building owned by the diocese? Helped with some bills. No outrage by the NCAA. 

It's not like PSU handed money to Sandusky knowing full well what his situation was and why. Juuuussttt saying.

Granted that wasn't a BC football issue even though they probably make some nice money from that.
Church tax-free properties is the biggest scam going in the US. They can hold onto insanely valuable properties at essentially no cost. We have million dollar homes going tax free to snakeoil salesmen and their prosperity gospel.

But the worst form of argument in the world is the "but X is worse" argument. "I only killed 5 people in cold blood. The Nazis killed millions!"

The whole BC/Diocese thing was really only about one thing;  real estate. 

Boston College had been trying for years to snap up more real estate in an area where its extremely difficult to come by.  When the Diocese had their scandal and need the funds, BC was quick to just in & snap up that land.  It made just too much sense.  It just happened to be the Diocese on the other end of that deal.

I'm not sure why there would be any outrage there by the NCAA.
Sometimes appearances can be deceiving. There are other schools that could have bought it and the diocese could have sold it to them a long time before that.

Sandusky's Second Mile group had to fold and close its door and whatnot. What if instead PSU right at that moment gave them a ton of money for their property and then said "We've been looking to buy property for years"?  I'm not sure people would have been totally ok with that.

Obviously not apples to apples, but the Catholic connection looked a tad convenient to people at the time.

The diocese is directly across Comm Ave from BC's campus.  My guess is that that if word had ever got out about the Diocese trying to sell the property in the past, that BC would've tried at that time too.  Prior to the scandal. Sure there's the Catholic convenience thing of the sale but then there is also the most apparent common sense proximity convenience. 

What other school in the area would buy that property?   If BC didn't buy it, I doubt another school would've been chasing it.  BU?  Miles down the road? Mt. Ida?   It probably would've fell into commercial or additional residential.
I'm under the impression (possibly wrongly) that the many schools in Boston have property all over the city (partly because of the nature of the city) and are known to run buses between them as well as just have people use the T. 

It just didn't exactly seem like there was a very transparent or thorough bidding process there. It seemed quite sudden. It just seemed like a convenient Catholic connection.

Not saying how it was. Just a bit how it seemed to the outside world.

Which is a little what PSU is trying to say. Hey world. You just don't understand. It wasn't like that.

Offline Celtics4ever

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I thought of the Catholic Church when I was writing my posts.   They protected individuals accused of stuff, or turned a blind eye, I didn't write that so as not to offend.   Their situation was poorly handled as well.

Online Donoghus

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And a program that was inextricably linked to child abuse. There's an easy joke about Catholicism in here, somewhere.
Spppeeeakking of that....remember when the Diocese of Boston was having a very tough year and then all of a sudden out of nowhere Boston College dishes out like $20 mill for a building owned by the diocese? Helped with some bills. No outrage by the NCAA. 

It's not like PSU handed money to Sandusky knowing full well what his situation was and why. Juuuussttt saying.

Granted that wasn't a BC football issue even though they probably make some nice money from that.
Church tax-free properties is the biggest scam going in the US. They can hold onto insanely valuable properties at essentially no cost. We have million dollar homes going tax free to snakeoil salesmen and their prosperity gospel.

But the worst form of argument in the world is the "but X is worse" argument. "I only killed 5 people in cold blood. The Nazis killed millions!"

The whole BC/Diocese thing was really only about one thing;  real estate. 

Boston College had been trying for years to snap up more real estate in an area where its extremely difficult to come by.  When the Diocese had their scandal and need the funds, BC was quick to just in & snap up that land.  It made just too much sense.  It just happened to be the Diocese on the other end of that deal.

I'm not sure why there would be any outrage there by the NCAA.
Sometimes appearances can be deceiving. There are other schools that could have bought it and the diocese could have sold it to them a long time before that.

Sandusky's Second Mile group had to fold and close its door and whatnot. What if instead PSU right at that moment gave them a ton of money for their property and then said "We've been looking to buy property for years"?  I'm not sure people would have been totally ok with that.

Obviously not apples to apples, but the Catholic connection looked a tad convenient to people at the time.

The diocese is directly across Comm Ave from BC's campus.  My guess is that that if word had ever got out about the Diocese trying to sell the property in the past, that BC would've tried at that time too.  Prior to the scandal. Sure there's the Catholic convenience thing of the sale but then there is also the most apparent common sense proximity convenience. 

What other school in the area would buy that property?   If BC didn't buy it, I doubt another school would've been chasing it.  BU?  Miles down the road? Mt. Ida?   It probably would've fell into commercial or additional residential.
I'm under the impression (possibly wrongly) that the many schools in Boston have property all over the city (partly because of the nature of the city) and are known to run buses between them as well as just have people use the T. 

It just didn't exactly seem like there was a very transparent or thorough bidding process there. It seemed quite sudden. It just seemed like a convenient Catholic connection.

Not saying how it was. Just a bit how it seemed to the outside world.

Which is a little what PSU is trying to say. Hey world. You just don't understand. It wasn't like that.

True but we're talking a real estate deal which just happened to be with the Catholic Church v. child molestation & cover-ups. 

Big differences here.


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Offline eja117

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And a program that was inextricably linked to child abuse. There's an easy joke about Catholicism in here, somewhere.
Spppeeeakking of that....remember when the Diocese of Boston was having a very tough year and then all of a sudden out of nowhere Boston College dishes out like $20 mill for a building owned by the diocese? Helped with some bills. No outrage by the NCAA. 

It's not like PSU handed money to Sandusky knowing full well what his situation was and why. Juuuussttt saying.

Granted that wasn't a BC football issue even though they probably make some nice money from that.
Church tax-free properties is the biggest scam going in the US. They can hold onto insanely valuable properties at essentially no cost. We have million dollar homes going tax free to snakeoil salesmen and their prosperity gospel.

But the worst form of argument in the world is the "but X is worse" argument. "I only killed 5 people in cold blood. The Nazis killed millions!"

The whole BC/Diocese thing was really only about one thing;  real estate. 

Boston College had been trying for years to snap up more real estate in an area where its extremely difficult to come by.  When the Diocese had their scandal and need the funds, BC was quick to just in & snap up that land.  It made just too much sense.  It just happened to be the Diocese on the other end of that deal.

I'm not sure why there would be any outrage there by the NCAA.
Sometimes appearances can be deceiving. There are other schools that could have bought it and the diocese could have sold it to them a long time before that.

Sandusky's Second Mile group had to fold and close its door and whatnot. What if instead PSU right at that moment gave them a ton of money for their property and then said "We've been looking to buy property for years"?  I'm not sure people would have been totally ok with that.

Obviously not apples to apples, but the Catholic connection looked a tad convenient to people at the time.

The diocese is directly across Comm Ave from BC's campus.  My guess is that that if word had ever got out about the Diocese trying to sell the property in the past, that BC would've tried at that time too.  Prior to the scandal. Sure there's the Catholic convenience thing of the sale but then there is also the most apparent common sense proximity convenience. 

What other school in the area would buy that property?   If BC didn't buy it, I doubt another school would've been chasing it.  BU?  Miles down the road? Mt. Ida?   It probably would've fell into commercial or additional residential.
I'm under the impression (possibly wrongly) that the many schools in Boston have property all over the city (partly because of the nature of the city) and are known to run buses between them as well as just have people use the T. 

It just didn't exactly seem like there was a very transparent or thorough bidding process there. It seemed quite sudden. It just seemed like a convenient Catholic connection.

Not saying how it was. Just a bit how it seemed to the outside world.

Which is a little what PSU is trying to say. Hey world. You just don't understand. It wasn't like that.

True but we're talking a real estate deal which just happened to be with the Catholic Church v. child molestation & cover-ups. 

Big differences here.
Which just happened to be when the Church needed a lot of money suddenly to deal with molestation and cover ups.   Definitely a difference.

It's the way it appeared to some people

Offline Fafnir

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Appeared that way to people who need a........



Wait what were we talking about?

Offline D.o.s.

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This is the kind of thing I'm seeing on my facebook feed like every single day, sometimes multiple times a day for years now. I'm highlighting it only to keep it separate from my thoughts. You guys already know I'm crazy.


While we're stepping on the neck of the NCAA today, here's what I'd want (note: I have a completely separate list for our BoT which we'll tackle on another day). What's your list of NCAA demands?
1.NCAA retraction and apology for Julie Roe’s contention that "Penn State had great success on the field from 1998-2012 and those wins were based on a pristine image which was a lie. As a result, those wins need to be taken away.”
2.Public apology on national television by Mark Emmert acknowledging that the NCAA was wrong in indicting the entire Penn State culture for the crimes of just one man, Jerry Sandusky. An apology that an overreach in sanctions contributed to a patently false narrative that has unfortunately been cemented in minds across America. And, a plea to journalists, through this lesson learned, that no matter the public outcry, it is far more important to get the story right, than to act in haste. Better to delay the punishment of the correct individual than to hastily punish those who are undeserving.
3.Acknowledgement that the Penn State culture has always been exemplary in its dedication to academics and athletics, noting that the athletic program has NEVER had one single NCAA infraction or violation, and has consistently ranked at the top for athlete graduation rates, as well as highest GPAs/most honors for students across all college sports. Apology to former and current Penn State football players and coaches, former and current staff and faculty, alumni, current students, the greater State College community for unfairly blaming, penalizing and crippling them.
4.Post the NCAA apology PROMINENTLY in the front page of the NCAA website, just as they did the Consent Decree.
5.Establish a new award to be given by the NCAA (with annual input from the Paterno family and a panel of former Penn State lettermen), called the Paterno “Grand Experiment” Award, recognizing one program annually that exemplifies the key characteristics of Paterno’s incomparable philosophy of integrity, academic excellence, athletic achievement, and success with honor.
6.Long-form, one-on-one interview with Mark Emmert on general consumer news programming such as Sixty Minutes or 20/20, expressing all speaking points above. ESPN's Outside the Lines is not good enough.
7.Together with the Paternos, meet with Brian DePalma and Al Pacino and set the narrative straight for the purposes of the proposed Happy Valley movie, ultimately ensuring that Paterno AND Penn State are portrayed in a manner acceptable to both.


That's right. There are people out there that want the world to apologize TO Penn State. It's not enough for some of them to have sanctions lifted and all that. They want the world to apologize to Penn State and acknowledge PSU is just so awesome.

I'd settle for "Maybe we were a tad harsh and shoulda waited longer to really figure things out. Maybe it was a tad more complicated than we thought. But seriously. Things looked really really bad. Now let's wait for the trial".

If I'm the NCAA I'm not making the same mistake twice. I'm like "You're right. There wasn't enough due process. So let's wait for it. Let's go to trial. Let's wait for results."

To the blue: You can't fix stupid.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Online Donoghus

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This is the kind of thing I'm seeing on my facebook feed like every single day, sometimes multiple times a day for years now. I'm highlighting it only to keep it separate from my thoughts. You guys already know I'm crazy.


While we're stepping on the neck of the NCAA today, here's what I'd want (note: I have a completely separate list for our BoT which we'll tackle on another day). What's your list of NCAA demands?
1.NCAA retraction and apology for Julie Roe’s contention that "Penn State had great success on the field from 1998-2012 and those wins were based on a pristine image which was a lie. As a result, those wins need to be taken away.”
2.Public apology on national television by Mark Emmert acknowledging that the NCAA was wrong in indicting the entire Penn State culture for the crimes of just one man, Jerry Sandusky. An apology that an overreach in sanctions contributed to a patently false narrative that has unfortunately been cemented in minds across America. And, a plea to journalists, through this lesson learned, that no matter the public outcry, it is far more important to get the story right, than to act in haste. Better to delay the punishment of the correct individual than to hastily punish those who are undeserving.
3.Acknowledgement that the Penn State culture has always been exemplary in its dedication to academics and athletics, noting that the athletic program has NEVER had one single NCAA infraction or violation, and has consistently ranked at the top for athlete graduation rates, as well as highest GPAs/most honors for students across all college sports. Apology to former and current Penn State football players and coaches, former and current staff and faculty, alumni, current students, the greater State College community for unfairly blaming, penalizing and crippling them.
4.Post the NCAA apology PROMINENTLY in the front page of the NCAA website, just as they did the Consent Decree.
5.Establish a new award to be given by the NCAA (with annual input from the Paterno family and a panel of former Penn State lettermen), called the Paterno “Grand Experiment” Award, recognizing one program annually that exemplifies the key characteristics of Paterno’s incomparable philosophy of integrity, academic excellence, athletic achievement, and success with honor.
6.Long-form, one-on-one interview with Mark Emmert on general consumer news programming such as Sixty Minutes or 20/20, expressing all speaking points above. ESPN's Outside the Lines is not good enough.
7.Together with the Paternos, meet with Brian DePalma and Al Pacino and set the narrative straight for the purposes of the proposed Happy Valley movie, ultimately ensuring that Paterno AND Penn State are portrayed in a manner acceptable to both.


That's right. There are people out there that want the world to apologize TO Penn State. It's not enough for some of them to have sanctions lifted and all that. They want the world to apologize to Penn State and acknowledge PSU is just so awesome.

I'd settle for "Maybe we were a tad harsh and shoulda waited longer to really figure things out. Maybe it was a tad more complicated than we thought. But seriously. Things looked really really bad. Now let's wait for the trial".

If I'm the NCAA I'm not making the same mistake twice. I'm like "You're right. There wasn't enough due process. So let's wait for it. Let's go to trial. Let's wait for results."

To the blue: You can't fix stupid.

Pretty much.


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Offline Moranis

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If Sandusky had been running a Ponzi scheme and using Penn State facilities to do it, do you have the same outrage?  Would the media and NCAA reacted the same way?

If the answer is no, then the NCAA got it wrong.
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Offline eja117

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If Sandusky had been running a Ponzi scheme and using Penn State facilities to do it, do you have the same outrage?  Would the media and NCAA reacted the same way?

If the answer is no, then the NCAA got it wrong.
If McQueery had walked in on it and seen clearly that it was happening and told Joe who told campus police and they did nothing....yeah...I think there'd be an outrage.

Now there is a question as to what McQueery actually saw, but still

Offline D.o.s.

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If Sandusky had been running a Ponzi scheme and using Penn State facilities to do it, do you have the same outrage?  Would the media and NCAA reacted the same way?

If the answer is no, then the NCAA got it wrong.

Why?
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

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If Sandusky had been running a Ponzi scheme and using Penn State facilities to do it, do you have the same outrage?  Would the media and NCAA reacted the same way?

If the answer is no, then the NCAA got it wrong.

Why?

Yeah, I'm scratching my head on this one.  Are we trying to equate child molestation with a Ponzi scheme?  Is this a fantasy land notion where all crimes are considered equal?


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Offline eja117

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If Sandusky had been running a Ponzi scheme and using Penn State facilities to do it, do you have the same outrage?  Would the media and NCAA reacted the same way?

If the answer is no, then the NCAA got it wrong.

Why?

Yeah, I'm scratching my head on this one.  Are we trying to equate child molestation with a Ponzi scheme?  Is this a fantasy land notion where all crimes are considered equal?
I think his point is to crimes that don't have to do with football. Off the field type crimes that don't directly involve a current staff member.  I think.

Offline eja117

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I think maybe some PSU alums are thinking/praying/hoping/expecting that at trials they'll ask "Why didn't you follow up and try to find the kid?" and they'll say "We did! JoePa insisted! And we found him! He was fine! He said nothing happened!" and then they'll get the grown up kid who will say nothing happened and there will be this big dramatic shock where people will all go "Ooooohh!" and then they'll say "This means JoePa has been innocent all along!"

I'm pretty sure if that was the case it would have happened by now or would never have gone to court.

In the real world I doubt this will happen.

Offline Moranis

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If Sandusky had been running a Ponzi scheme and using Penn State facilities to do it, do you have the same outrage?  Would the media and NCAA reacted the same way?

If the answer is no, then the NCAA got it wrong.

Why?

Yeah, I'm scratching my head on this one.  Are we trying to equate child molestation with a Ponzi scheme?  Is this a fantasy land notion where all crimes are considered equal?
In each case Sandusky would have been "using" PSU to facilitate a crime.  The nature of the crime shouldn't matter to the punishment to PSU (the punishment to Sandusky is a different matter).  Neither has anything to do with football, the players, the coaches, or the performance on the field.  There is no practical difference.  Thus there should be no difference in penalty.  The fact that child molestation charges you up emotionally while a guy bilking old people out of their savings doesn't have the same emotional effect, should have no bearing on a football program.  Take the emotion out of it.  It doesn't belong in a governing body.
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