Author Topic: In retrospect what do you now think about the PSU scandal?  (Read 27297 times)

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Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
'Hurt kids that didn't deserve it'

To play devil's advocate, this is exactly what Sandusky did, but in his case it was kids not young men.

The punishment does not suit the crime, I agree.   The players affected did nothing but got hammered.  But, I think Sandusky's punishment does not fit the crime, I also think they should castrate guys like Sandusky.

Offline guava_wrench

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Football in general has a culture problem. It is the most team-oriented sport in the US and it is very unhealthy to play. In order to get people to play their role for the team and to also sacrifice their body for a win, people take on distorted perspectives of team loyalty that makes it hard to root out non-football problems.

I doubt Penn State was any worse culture-wise than many other top schools, but they happened to have a person there causing great harm and they didn't take action.

Offline guava_wrench

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I am not a Penn State fan, but I absolutely care about those kids. They got screwed, and as I said earlier it wasn't fair. Let me give some rebuttals to what people used against me.

1)Yes kids were given an opt out, but the chose Penn State for a reason, primarily: Family legacy, they like the program, they liked the school, close to home, etc. Because someone 10 years before you f'd up you need to go through to recruiting process again?

2) What I mean about hurting the kids is this, the kids at PSU work just as hard on their craft (thanks KG) as any other college football player. Because of a few sick people these kids now have been shorthanded. They DID not get the same opportunities as other players around the NCAA.

My point wasn't really about an individual child's legacy
So you are concerned that they didn't get everything they wanted the way they wanted?

There had to be accountability. We can make these same entitled critiques of any NCAA penalty ever handed down. If one player gets money and a team gets in trouble, what about all the innocent teammates? Why do we hear so much about Penn State, where something egregious actually happened, and few complaints about UConn basketball, where the violations were far more trivial?

I would go so far as to say the loyalty they have to PSU is part of the problem. There is nothing magical about these institutions. Welcome to the real world, players. These players should have more loyalty to humanity and ethics instead of to a university.

Offline CeltsAcumen

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1)  Joe Paterno is a disgrace and he should be remembered only for this incident.
2) Penn State should of gotten the death penalty.  This is a institution of higher learning not the NFL.  Molest kids or you are letting kids through your negligence be harmed you lose your right to compete in sports until you can prove your campus is safe and your institution is a responsible member of the NCAA.
3)  the players - well this is the problem isnt it, but please this not the first time the NCAA has invoked this rule and screwed the student athlete.

A coach can leave at any time and with little if any penalty.  Players cannot transfer without losing a year of eligibility. 

The NCAA is not fair, they do not care about the student athlete, they care about making money and to the NCAA, Penn State has TV deals, Shoe Deals and they cannot let the Penn State Football name be tarnished and lose revenue.

Sorry I despise the NCAA and how they have destroyed all sports to give the SEC, the Big Ten and the Big Twelve another football game so these schools, the NCAA and ESPN can make money.  Which is ironic since the NCAA and schools make more money on the NCAA Men's BBall Tourney.

Ask yourself how is the best basketball program of the last 30 years, UConn (9 Women NCAAs Championships and 3 Mens Championships)  NOT in a major conference?

Football.

Sorry off topic, but no I feel no remorse for Penn State or Joe Pa, the players were exploited as they were exploited before the scandal.  Unfortunately this will continue regardless of scandals, money is everything in the US.

Offline eja117

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And a program that was inextricably linked to child abuse. There's an easy joke about Catholicism in here, somewhere.
Spppeeeakking of that....remember when the Diocese of Boston was having a very tough year and then all of a sudden out of nowhere Boston College dishes out like $20 mill for a building owned by the diocese? Helped with some bills. No outrage by the NCAA. 

It's not like PSU handed money to Sandusky knowing full well what his situation was and why. Juuuussttt saying.

Granted that wasn't a BC football issue even though they probably make some nice money from that.

Offline eja117

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You're not wrong, but again -- I'm operating on the assumption that they chose Penn State because they didn't know about Sandusky. In their shoes, I don't see how I could stay, particularly if I was a football player, after knowing that my coach and administration paid short shift to such a horrible thing.
you mean the coach and administration that had been fired.

Yet you'd still be going to a program facing sanctions.
I don't know if it's a matter of going there but of staying there in the state where your family probably lives, where your family wants you to be, where you want to be, where all your teammates and friends are, and probably your girlfriend, former high school coach, church etc.

Offline D.o.s.

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And a program that was inextricably linked to child abuse. There's an easy joke about Catholicism in here, somewhere.
Spppeeeakking of that....remember when the Diocese of Boston was having a very tough year and then all of a sudden out of nowhere Boston College dishes out like $20 mill for a building owned by the diocese? Helped with some bills. No outrage by the NCAA. 

It's not like PSU handed money to Sandusky knowing full well what his situation was and why. Juuuussttt saying.

Granted that wasn't a BC football issue even though they probably make some nice money from that.

Fair point. My point is that, if I'm in that situation, there's no way I want to be associated with the football program after the Sandusky stuff comes to light.

I kind of agree with Moranis, insofar as I don't think that the NCAA should necessarily act as a moral governing body for college sports, but I think that the NCAA was the correct institution for dealing with Penn State because of how intertwined CFB was with what was happening and the reaction to it.
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Offline guava_wrench

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And a program that was inextricably linked to child abuse. There's an easy joke about Catholicism in here, somewhere.
Spppeeeakking of that....remember when the Diocese of Boston was having a very tough year and then all of a sudden out of nowhere Boston College dishes out like $20 mill for a building owned by the diocese? Helped with some bills. No outrage by the NCAA. 

It's not like PSU handed money to Sandusky knowing full well what his situation was and why. Juuuussttt saying.

Granted that wasn't a BC football issue even though they probably make some nice money from that.
Church tax-free properties is the biggest scam going in the US. They can hold onto insanely valuable properties at essentially no cost. We have million dollar homes going tax free to snakeoil salesmen and their prosperity gospel.

But the worst form of argument in the world is the "but X is worse" argument. "I only killed 5 people in cold blood. The Nazis killed millions!"

Offline guava_wrench

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You're not wrong, but again -- I'm operating on the assumption that they chose Penn State because they didn't know about Sandusky. In their shoes, I don't see how I could stay, particularly if I was a football player, after knowing that my coach and administration paid short shift to such a horrible thing.
you mean the coach and administration that had been fired.

Yet you'd still be going to a program facing sanctions.
I don't know if it's a matter of going there but of staying there in the state where your family probably lives, where your family wants you to be, where you want to be, where all your teammates and friends are, and probably your girlfriend, former high school coach, church etc.
Welcome to real life, where you don't get everything you want.

Online Donoghus

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You're not wrong, but again -- I'm operating on the assumption that they chose Penn State because they didn't know about Sandusky. In their shoes, I don't see how I could stay, particularly if I was a football player, after knowing that my coach and administration paid short shift to such a horrible thing.
you mean the coach and administration that had been fired.

Yet you'd still be going to a program facing sanctions.
I don't know if it's a matter of going there but of staying there in the state where your family probably lives, where your family wants you to be, where you want to be, where all your teammates and friends are, and probably your girlfriend, former high school coach, church etc.

Sure.  And that's where the idea of sacrifice comes in.   Do you go to a program where you can get a shot at a Rose Bowl or something or do you stay behind to be closer to family, girlfriend, etc.. and swallow the fact that you might not play in the postseason until sanctions are lifted (if you're still even there)?  Still, its a choice they have and probably not an easy one but it's still a choice.   Life is full of hard decisions.   


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Offline eja117

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And a program that was inextricably linked to child abuse. There's an easy joke about Catholicism in here, somewhere.
Spppeeeakking of that....remember when the Diocese of Boston was having a very tough year and then all of a sudden out of nowhere Boston College dishes out like $20 mill for a building owned by the diocese? Helped with some bills. No outrage by the NCAA. 

It's not like PSU handed money to Sandusky knowing full well what his situation was and why. Juuuussttt saying.

Granted that wasn't a BC football issue even though they probably make some nice money from that.

Fair point. My point is that, if I'm in that situation, there's no way I want to be associated with the football program after the Sandusky stuff comes to light.

I kind of agree with Moranis, insofar as I don't think that the NCAA should necessarily act as a moral governing body for college sports, but I think that the NCAA was the correct institution for dealing with Penn State because of how intertwined CFB was with what was happening and the reaction to it.
I don't like agreeing with that, but I largely have to. The NCAA had to do something and actually showed some restraint. They waited till the Freeh report came out. It was at the time accepted by the school, so the NCAA accepted it too and said "You have a former FBI directer making some of the harshest accusations ever and you accept it. Here is your very tough punishment".

The idea they were supposed to say "Well...even though this is clearly an issue within your football program and clearly highly illegal, but it's a crime instead of like a minor recruiting thing so we just won't get involved".....yeah right.

They wanted to make an example of them and they did.  Better to overreach a bit and get pushed down later than do nothing.

Online Donoghus

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And a program that was inextricably linked to child abuse. There's an easy joke about Catholicism in here, somewhere.
Spppeeeakking of that....remember when the Diocese of Boston was having a very tough year and then all of a sudden out of nowhere Boston College dishes out like $20 mill for a building owned by the diocese? Helped with some bills. No outrage by the NCAA. 

It's not like PSU handed money to Sandusky knowing full well what his situation was and why. Juuuussttt saying.

Granted that wasn't a BC football issue even though they probably make some nice money from that.
Church tax-free properties is the biggest scam going in the US. They can hold onto insanely valuable properties at essentially no cost. We have million dollar homes going tax free to snakeoil salesmen and their prosperity gospel.

But the worst form of argument in the world is the "but X is worse" argument. "I only killed 5 people in cold blood. The Nazis killed millions!"

The whole BC/Diocese thing was really only about one thing;  real estate. 

Boston College had been trying for years to snap up more real estate in an area where its extremely difficult to come by.  When the Diocese had their scandal and need the funds, BC was quick to just in & snap up that land.  It made just too much sense.  It just happened to be the Diocese on the other end of that deal.

I'm not sure why there would be any outrage there by the NCAA. 


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Offline eja117

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I think on some level PSU fans feel entitled. They felt like the ran a squeaky clean program for 40 years held up as a model and then at the first sign of chaotic problems the NCAA and Big Ten stabbed them in the back and went for a PSU cash grab. That the NCAA should have waited for due process and the truth to come out. That's going to take yeeeeeeaaarrss. They waited till the report came out.

They have it backwards. If the NCAA and Big Ten came down on them hard it's partly precisely because they were held up as a model. Hold yourself to higher standards. If anyone backstabbed anyone it's PSU that backstabbed people.

PSU had to be initially punished because it's not just their team responsible/answerable for this. It's the president, the BOT, the campus police, etc.

Offline eja117

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And a program that was inextricably linked to child abuse. There's an easy joke about Catholicism in here, somewhere.
Spppeeeakking of that....remember when the Diocese of Boston was having a very tough year and then all of a sudden out of nowhere Boston College dishes out like $20 mill for a building owned by the diocese? Helped with some bills. No outrage by the NCAA. 

It's not like PSU handed money to Sandusky knowing full well what his situation was and why. Juuuussttt saying.

Granted that wasn't a BC football issue even though they probably make some nice money from that.
Church tax-free properties is the biggest scam going in the US. They can hold onto insanely valuable properties at essentially no cost. We have million dollar homes going tax free to snakeoil salesmen and their prosperity gospel.

But the worst form of argument in the world is the "but X is worse" argument. "I only killed 5 people in cold blood. The Nazis killed millions!"

The whole BC/Diocese thing was really only about one thing;  real estate. 

Boston College had been trying for years to snap up more real estate in an area where its extremely difficult to come by.  When the Diocese had their scandal and need the funds, BC was quick to just in & snap up that land.  It made just too much sense.  It just happened to be the Diocese on the other end of that deal.

I'm not sure why there would be any outrage there by the NCAA.
Sometimes appearances can be deceiving. There are other schools that could have bought it and the diocese could have sold it to them a long time before that.

Sandusky's Second Mile group had to fold and close its door and whatnot. What if instead PSU right at that moment gave them a ton of money for their property and then said "We've been looking to buy property for years"?  I'm not sure people would have been totally ok with that.

Obviously not apples to apples, but the Catholic connection looked a tad convenient to people at the time.

Online Donoghus

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And a program that was inextricably linked to child abuse. There's an easy joke about Catholicism in here, somewhere.
Spppeeeakking of that....remember when the Diocese of Boston was having a very tough year and then all of a sudden out of nowhere Boston College dishes out like $20 mill for a building owned by the diocese? Helped with some bills. No outrage by the NCAA. 

It's not like PSU handed money to Sandusky knowing full well what his situation was and why. Juuuussttt saying.

Granted that wasn't a BC football issue even though they probably make some nice money from that.
Church tax-free properties is the biggest scam going in the US. They can hold onto insanely valuable properties at essentially no cost. We have million dollar homes going tax free to snakeoil salesmen and their prosperity gospel.

But the worst form of argument in the world is the "but X is worse" argument. "I only killed 5 people in cold blood. The Nazis killed millions!"

The whole BC/Diocese thing was really only about one thing;  real estate. 

Boston College had been trying for years to snap up more real estate in an area where its extremely difficult to come by.  When the Diocese had their scandal and need the funds, BC was quick to just in & snap up that land.  It made just too much sense.  It just happened to be the Diocese on the other end of that deal.

I'm not sure why there would be any outrage there by the NCAA.
Sometimes appearances can be deceiving. There are other schools that could have bought it and the diocese could have sold it to them a long time before that.

Sandusky's Second Mile group had to fold and close its door and whatnot. What if instead PSU right at that moment gave them a ton of money for their property and then said "We've been looking to buy property for years"?  I'm not sure people would have been totally ok with that.

Obviously not apples to apples, but the Catholic connection looked a tad convenient to people at the time.

The diocese is directly across Comm Ave from BC's campus.  My guess is that that if word had ever got out about the Diocese trying to sell the property in the past, that BC would've tried at that time too.  Prior to the scandal. Sure there's the Catholic convenience thing of the sale but then there is also the most apparent common sense proximity convenience. 

What other school in the area would buy that property?   If BC didn't buy it, I doubt another school would've been chasing it.  BU?  Miles down the road? Mt. Ida?   It probably would've fell into commercial or additional residential. 


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