Author Topic: In retrospect what do you now think about the PSU scandal?  (Read 21341 times)

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Offline eja117

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A lot of PSU fans sort of have a persecution complex and feel like the NCAA has a history of picking on them and feel like because they were a top squeaky clean program people were more than delighted to come down on them.
They point to all sorts of other schools problems and say "So who has the culture problem"?

It's not going to work.  If you think you're so great hold yourself to the highest standards. Take things as seriously as possible.  I think this is a little why the alums are so mad at the BOT. They just came off as completely incompetent at everything they're supposed to do....knowing what's going on, sticking up for the school, etc

Offline Donoghus

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My biggest problem with the how everything went down is how they crippled that program, and hurt kids that didn't deserve it. What did the kids do to deserve to have a a few season of medicroity based on no bowls, limited practice, scholarships cut in half. That's not fair. Put the criminals in jail and make PSU pay a HUGE fine. Something insane like 10mill.

'Hurt kids that didn't deserve it' seems to be, in most cases, coded language for 'hurt a fanbase that didn't deserve it.' I sincerely doubt many people are really all that concerned with the future and well being of the Lion's football players beyond their capacity to put on the right colored laundry.

The kids were also given the opportunity to transfer and play immediately at another school without having to sit out a year. 

The school made the bed but those who remained behind chose to sleep it in.  They knew the sanctions.   It's unfortunate but there was an opt out available.
I agree a lot of fans care about themselves in this case, but they definitely care about the kids too. Would you ever tell your kid "Well. Son. Someone you know at your school committed a crime, so I tell ya what I'm gonna do. You have two options. You could go to a school you didn't want to go to or you can keep going to the school you're at now, but I'm gonna find ways to make it way less rewarding an experience".

A lot of those kids grew up wanting to play nowhere else. The captain in particular was a legacy through his father and the family was the happiest family on Earth when he committed. Kids that grew up in PA and felt they were living the dream. Sure they would get educations as well. 

I mean it worked out great for some of the players. Two of them transferred to Cal and USC (also excellent schools), but a lot of them didn't want to.

It's a tough situation (and bad timing) especially for the legacy kids but no one was putting a gun to their head to stay there so I have a tough time sympathizing with the whole idea of it "hurting the current players".  Now if the NCAA hadn't offered the immediate transfer thing,  I could look at things in a different light.   I just don't buy the whole "poor kids" argument, though.  Their school screwed up bad but an exit clause was available.


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Offline eja117

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My biggest problem with the how everything went down is how they crippled that program, and hurt kids that didn't deserve it. What did the kids do to deserve to have a a few season of medicroity based on no bowls, limited practice, scholarships cut in half. That's not fair. Put the criminals in jail and make PSU pay a HUGE fine. Something insane like 10mill.

'Hurt kids that didn't deserve it' seems to be, in most cases, coded language for 'hurt a fanbase that didn't deserve it.' I sincerely doubt many people are really all that concerned with the future and well being of the Lion's football players beyond their capacity to put on the right colored laundry.

The kids were also given the opportunity to transfer and play immediately at another school without having to sit out a year. 

The school made the bed but those who remained behind chose to sleep it in.  They knew the sanctions.   It's unfortunate but there was an opt out available.
I agree a lot of fans care about themselves in this case, but they definitely care about the kids too. Would you ever tell your kid "Well. Son. Someone you know at your school committed a crime, so I tell ya what I'm gonna do. You have two options. You could go to a school you didn't want to go to or you can keep going to the school you're at now, but I'm gonna find ways to make it way less rewarding an experience".

A lot of those kids grew up wanting to play nowhere else. The captain in particular was a legacy through his father and the family was the happiest family on Earth when he committed. Kids that grew up in PA and felt they were living the dream. Sure they would get educations as well. 

I mean it worked out great for some of the players. Two of them transferred to Cal and USC (also excellent schools), but a lot of them didn't want to.

It's a tough situation (and bad timing) especially for the legacy kids but no one was putting a gun to their head to stay there so I have a tough time sympathizing with the whole idea of it "hurting the current players".  Now if the NCAA hadn't offered the immediate transfer thing,  I could look at things in a different light.   I just don't buy the whole "poor kids" argument, though.  Their school screwed up bad but an exit clause was available.
It's the least of anybody's problems.

I would be a liar if I didn't admit I have been known to dance with glee when maybe a Miami or an Ohio State or a USC gets similar sanctions for lesser problems. 

Offline D.o.s.

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I'm willing to sacrifice the legacy kid's situation because their school willingly overlooked pedophilia as to keep their football program intact.

Doesn't move my moral/ethical barometer one iota, actually. If I found out my boss was allowing someone I worked with to boink kids, even if it was my dream job, I'd quit. I'd quit twice as fast if someone guaranteed me a gig doing the same thing somewhere else. While I'll fully acknowledge that many 19-22 year old men are extraordinarily stupid, you have to wonder about the football players that, you know, decided to stick it out. I wouldn't want that association in any way shape or form.

Again, to my way of looking at it this is all extraordinarily arbitrary loyalty to an alma mater and an attempt for people to 'feel good' about Penn State football. Which they shouldn't, because they allowed (inaction is still an allowance) a guy to molest children by virtue of his position in the program.

This isn't rocket surgery.
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Offline eja117

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Also, it should be noted that the incident McQueary spoke of, was one of the few indictments in which Sandusky was found not guilty.  Maybe not quite so cut and dry afterall.
This is absolutely one of the thing that PSUers cling to. They point out at one point there was confusion as to whether the kid retracted his story and I think they use it to point McQueery in a pretty bad light.
They also are sorta subtly saying "Well hey. If that thing never even happened then how can you be mad at JoePa and the administration for not following up on something that didn't happen? How can there be a coverup about something that didn't happen?"
I think they have a pretty weak point there. I'll admit to it being a point, but still pretty weak.

Offline eja117

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Rocket surgery? I think I may use that in the future.  Dos has coined a new term and I kinda love it.

Offline RAcker

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Since I am an Alabama guy, let me make this example as indictment of the NCAA and collegiate sports in general. In the late 90's, the Alabama program was contaminated by a few rogue boosters who were doing everything from the relatively harmless $100 handshake to more severe stuff like money laundering through a guy's car dealership in Memphis.

In the Alabama case, the NCAA went on a 5 year witch hunt to get anyone and everyone involved (even though none were graduates of the university and there was no concrete evidence that any coaches were actively involved).  The NCAA treated the minor offender just as severely as the top cheaters in the bunch.  As we all know, Alabama got hit and hit HARD! 5 years probation, loss of many scholarships, etc.

The NCAA actually gave Penn St. about the same if not less of a penalty than Alabama for looking the other way when CHILD MOLESTATION was going on IN THEIR FOOTBALL FACILITIES and the sexual predator was at one point AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF THE COACHING STAFF and the rest of the time a FRIEND OF THE PROGRAM with keys which allowed him access anywhere he wanted to go in the athletic facilities. Not only were these facts, but the HEAD COACH AND SCHOOL PRESIDENT HAD KNOWLEDGE OF THE CLAIMS and an ASSISTANT COACH WALKED IN ON ABUSE IN PROGRESS!

In the Penn St. case, the NCAA investigation was not nearly as hot and heavy.  While they interviewed those involved and did a little work, it was nowhere near the hundreds of hours of interviews that went on in the Alabama case which involved some idiot boosters and not sex offenders.

This is the problem.  The NCAA has rule book 4 inches thick about what is and is not permissible.  However, they do not have penalties set out as clearly and therefore you get this ridiculously non-level reaction when penalties are handed down. I think we all agree that cheating is wrong...but on the same level or less than sexual abuse? The NCAA has to stick to their guns here or Alabama, USC and everyone else could cry out for getting wins back.  Perspective.

Offline D.o.s.

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Rocket surgery? I think I may use that in the future.  Dos has coined a new term and I kinda love it.

That's definitely not mine to claim, even though it is a great phrase.

 ;D
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Offline eja117

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Since I am an Alabama guy, let me make this example as indictment of the NCAA and collegiate sports in general. In the late 90's, the Alabama program was contaminated by a few rogue boosters who were doing everything from the relatively harmless $100 handshake to more severe stuff like money laundering through a guy's car dealership in Memphis.

In the Alabama case, the NCAA went on a 5 year witch hunt to get anyone and everyone involved (even though none were graduates of the university and there was no concrete evidence that any coaches were actively involved).  The NCAA treated the minor offender just as severely as the top cheaters in the bunch.  As we all know, Alabama got hit and hit HARD! 5 years probation, loss of many scholarships, etc.

The NCAA actually gave Penn St. about the same if not less of a penalty than Alabama for looking the other way when CHILD MOLESTATION was going on IN THEIR FOOTBALL FACILITIES and the sexual predator was at one point AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF THE COACHING STAFF and the rest of the time a FRIEND OF THE PROGRAM with keys which allowed him access anywhere he wanted to go in the athletic facilities. Not only were these facts, but the HEAD COACH AND SCHOOL PRESIDENT HAD KNOWLEDGE OF THE CLAIMS and an ASSISTANT COACH WALKED IN ON ABUSE IN PROGRESS!

In the Penn St. case, the NCAA investigation was not nearly as hot and heavy.  While they interviewed those involved and did a little work, it was nowhere near the hundreds of hours of interviews that went on in the Alabama case which involved some idiot boosters and not sex offenders.

This is the problem.  The NCAA has rule book 4 inches thick about what is and is not permissible.  However, they do not have penalties set out as clearly and therefore you get this ridiculously non-level reaction when penalties are handed down. I think we all agree that cheating is wrong...but on the same level or less than sexual abuse? The NCAA has to stick to their guns here or Alabama, USC and everyone else could cry out for getting wins back.  Perspective.
They probably should cry for getting wins back. They'll probably get them.

Another thing that ticks me off is vacated wins. Not forfeits. Vacated wins. Just nobody wins. The game never happened. Well if the game never happened then NCAA has to give everyone their money back. Hello you paid to watch a game that never happened. Here's your money back. Oh and you paid for an advertisement in a game that never happened. Here's your money back too. We can't give you your time back but here's your money.

But the NCAA has a money addiction so here we are.

Offline JohnBoy65

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I am not a Penn State fan, but I absolutely care about those kids. They got screwed, and as I said earlier it wasn't fair. Let me give some rebuttals to what people used against me.

1)Yes kids were given an opt out, but the chose Penn State for a reason, primarily: Family legacy, they like the program, they liked the school, close to home, etc. Because someone 10 years before you f'd up you need to go through to recruiting process again?

2) What I mean about hurting the kids is this, the kids at PSU work just as hard on their craft (thanks KG) as any other college football player. Because of a few sick people these kids now have been shorthanded. They DID not get the same opportunities as other players around the NCAA.

My point wasn't really about an individual child's legacy

Offline D.o.s.

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You're not wrong, but again -- I'm operating on the assumption that they chose Penn State because they didn't know about Sandusky. In their shoes, I don't see how I could stay, particularly if I was a football player, after knowing that my coach and administration paid short shift to such a horrible thing.
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Offline Moranis

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Since I am an Alabama guy, let me make this example as indictment of the NCAA and collegiate sports in general. In the late 90's, the Alabama program was contaminated by a few rogue boosters who were doing everything from the relatively harmless $100 handshake to more severe stuff like money laundering through a guy's car dealership in Memphis.

In the Alabama case, the NCAA went on a 5 year witch hunt to get anyone and everyone involved (even though none were graduates of the university and there was no concrete evidence that any coaches were actively involved).  The NCAA treated the minor offender just as severely as the top cheaters in the bunch.  As we all know, Alabama got hit and hit HARD! 5 years probation, loss of many scholarships, etc.

The NCAA actually gave Penn St. about the same if not less of a penalty than Alabama for looking the other way when CHILD MOLESTATION was going on IN THEIR FOOTBALL FACILITIES and the sexual predator was at one point AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF THE COACHING STAFF and the rest of the time a FRIEND OF THE PROGRAM with keys which allowed him access anywhere he wanted to go in the athletic facilities. Not only were these facts, but the HEAD COACH AND SCHOOL PRESIDENT HAD KNOWLEDGE OF THE CLAIMS and an ASSISTANT COACH WALKED IN ON ABUSE IN PROGRESS!

In the Penn St. case, the NCAA investigation was not nearly as hot and heavy.  While they interviewed those involved and did a little work, it was nowhere near the hundreds of hours of interviews that went on in the Alabama case which involved some idiot boosters and not sex offenders.

This is the problem.  The NCAA has rule book 4 inches thick about what is and is not permissible.  However, they do not have penalties set out as clearly and therefore you get this ridiculously non-level reaction when penalties are handed down. I think we all agree that cheating is wrong...but on the same level or less than sexual abuse? The NCAA has to stick to their guns here or Alabama, USC and everyone else could cry out for getting wins back.  Perspective.
one affects the field of play, one does not.  that is the difference.
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Offline Moranis

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You're not wrong, but again -- I'm operating on the assumption that they chose Penn State because they didn't know about Sandusky. In their shoes, I don't see how I could stay, particularly if I was a football player, after knowing that my coach and administration paid short shift to such a horrible thing.
you mean the coach and administration that had been fired.
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Offline Donoghus

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You're not wrong, but again -- I'm operating on the assumption that they chose Penn State because they didn't know about Sandusky. In their shoes, I don't see how I could stay, particularly if I was a football player, after knowing that my coach and administration paid short shift to such a horrible thing.
you mean the coach and administration that had been fired.

Yet you'd still be going to a program facing sanctions. 


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Offline D.o.s.

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And a program that was inextricably linked to child abuse. There's an easy joke about Catholicism in here, somewhere.
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