Author Topic: In retrospect what do you now think about the PSU scandal?  (Read 27365 times)

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In retrospect what do you now think about the PSU scandal?
« on: January 14, 2015, 08:58:37 AM »

Offline eja117

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I am deeeeffffinitely not here to stick up for JoePa. Or PSU.

This is my problem. My facebook feed is just absolutely full of PSU stuff alllll the time and has been for years.  A LOT of PSU alumni are just unwilling for the school or football team (and CERTAINLY not JoePa) to take ANY blame.  They just completely deny that the school should have been punished. It's actually hard to sort out.

I just need some sort of non PSU reality check.

It seems the PSU main contentions are something like....

PSU didn't have a culture problem at any level and doesn't now. A few guys made some mistakes perhaps out of ignorance or well meaningly. Sandusky fooled the whole world for many years and these guys aren't investigators.

McQueery wasn't the most trustable guy (I find this argument absurd).

JoePa did exactly what he was supposed to do, which was put it in the hands of his superiors almost immediately, get out of the way, and let them do their job. What he did is exactly what the NCAA now recommends all employees do. (Technically true, but at least slightly self serving). JoePa never got due process and now the world is free to take shots at him because he's dead.

The Freeh report is totally bogus from top to bottom. You can't trust Freeh to pour a glass of water let alone do a report like this. The entire report was just the BOT cyaing and he was paid to do that and that alone. It wasn't about the truth. He didn't even interview the people involved.

The NCAA punishments were just about taking money from PSU and they themselves have had to admit they bluffed and probably didn't have jurisdiction. We're gonna get the money and the wins back.

The only reason the rest of the world gets the sense that PSU has admitted blame is because the BOT is so dysfunctional that they backed down as quickly as possible, largely to avoid the football death penalty. In the chaos that ensued it was very difficult to ascertain any truth, and rather than try to find it there was just a rush to judgement.

That is the bubble I have been living in for years now.  Does the rest of the world buy any of these arguments?  I do think the BOT is full of liars that knew about this way ahead of time. I do think the Freeh report should be strongly questioned. I do think the NCAA is dysfunctional and used this as an opportunity to bolster themselves and grab some cash, as did the Big Ten. I am still waiting for various law suits to sort some of this out.

But I still think people have to go to jail for what they did and didn't do. Stories don't add up. I thought the rest of the world had generally settled on a version of "PSU fudged up. Got caught. Got a fair punishment".

But did I miss something? Is the rest of the world coming around to PSU's line of thinking?  I went to an MSNBC poll the other day and like 96% of thousands of people thought JoePa should get his wins back. I couldn't believe that.

What is the evolving public perception of all this now?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 08:26:45 AM by eja117 »

Offline eja117

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Seeee...this is what I'm talking about. Dan Patrick saying the wins should be given back? Whhhaaaaaa?

To me the only way that can happen is if it's shown JoePa is largely innocent in the whole deal and I don't think that can shown at this time.


http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/13/dan-patrick-ncaa-should-give-joe-paternos-victories-back/

Offline D.o.s.

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I think they should 'give the victories back to his family' with an asterisk that says "By the way, this guy let his assistant bang kids in the team shower. Go Lions."
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Offline eja117

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http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/forfeiting-wins-was-never-a-fitting-punishment-for-penn-state/ar-AA87Stx

Here's sort of another example.

Are people's minds actually changing? If so why?

Offline eja117

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I think they should 'give the victories back to his family' with an asterisk that says "By the way, this guy let his assistant bang kids in the team shower. Go Lions."
I don't think it's so much "this guy" as it is "the head of PSU police, the president, and athletic director" but he definitely could have said "I trust my old QB. I don't want that guy around my program."

The argument makes no sense to me. Either you have a person on your staff telling viscous lies (McQueery) or you have someone breaking some pretty important laws at your facility.  You'd want to know which so you could deal with it. You wouldn't throw up your hands and be like "Iiiiiiii don't know! Whatever!"

Offline D.o.s.

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See, I actually don't think that's the case. My suspicion is that Paterno ignored/never followed up on what was happening with Sandusky in order to focus on football. He washed his hands of it as quickly as possible with the most token effort in order to pay attention to what was happening on the gridiron.

Eff that. People are trying to get the wins reinstated because they want to brag about their alma mater, by the way, and because they don't really care about Sandusky (or child abuse) either.
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Offline eja117

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See, I actually don't think that's the case. My suspicion is that Paterno ignored/never followed up on what was happening with Sandusky in order to focus on football. He washed his hands of it as quickly as possible with the most token effort in order to pay attention to what was happening on the gridiron.

Eff that. People are trying to get the wins reinstated because they want to brag about their alma mater, by the way, and because they don't really care about Sandusky (or child abuse) either.
Yeah I could see that point of view.

At best you have to come to this conclusion that JoePa lacked a tremendous amount of common sense and just trusted others to do their jobs and do the right thing and then was so naive that he just neeevvverr asked the most basic questions like "Hey. That old thing was just a bunch of confusion or something eh?"  And then they were like "Just some weird confusion Joe!" I mean come on. The guy may have been nice and trusting, but that's just absurd.

But then you have to ALSO believe that he never told anyone (like under oath or something) that he was informed about it. Just nuts. 

Offline eja117

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If PSU wants to pretend that JoePa was innocent and all that then fine...I can give em that. But then guys like the president and the head of the PSU police have to go to jail. And they never say that. Like just nobody is responsible on any level.

PSU doesn't exactly love those guys but they aren't exactly pointing fingers at them either. I think they're waiting for the results of the perjury trials.

If they lose they'll say "Seeeee. It was thooossse guys. Not JoePa! The DA saaaiiid JoePa wasn't under any suspicion."

If they win they'll say "Seeeee. Nobody at PSU did anything wrong. Sandusky fooled evvvveerryoone."

Offline eja117

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Maybe guys like Dan Patrick are just saying give back the wins because forgiveness is popular or something now.   
I'm just not aware of any new info that should matter. Other than the NCAA is full of it, but we already knew that. 

Offline D.o.s.

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If PSU wants to pretend that JoePa was innocent and all that then fine...I can give em that. But then guys like the president and the head of the PSU police have to go to jail. And they never say that. Like just nobody is responsible on any level.

PSU doesn't exactly love those guys but they aren't exactly pointing fingers at them either. I think they're waiting for the results of the perjury trials.

If they lose they'll say "Seeeee. It was thooossse guys. Not JoePa! The DA saaaiiid JoePa wasn't under any suspicion."

If they win they'll say "Seeeee. Nobody at PSU did anything wrong. Sandusky fooled evvvveerryoone."

I agree with this.
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Offline Moranis

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I never felt the punishment fit the crime.  It wasn't a football thing and shouldn't have affected the football program.  In fact I think had PSU challenged it they would have won in Court as this sort of thing falls outside the purview of the NCAA.  Felt that way from the beginning.  Also felt that everyone should have been fired and a clean slate was the way to go. 

For the record I feel the same way about the NFL and the off field stuff.  Shouldn't be suspended for things you do off the field unless it affects you on the field (though feel the team should be able to do what they want i.e. NFL shouldn't suspend Ray Rice, but the Ravens could certainly cut him). 

Sports sanctioning bodies shouldn't be morality police, they should police the field and the things that affect the field.  Period.  The PSU scandal had nothing to do with the field, competition, etc. and as such the NCAA had no business doing anything about it.
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Offline Rondo2287

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I never felt the punishment fit the crime.  It wasn't a football thing and shouldn't have affected the football program.  In fact I think had PSU challenged it they would have won in Court as this sort of thing falls outside the purview of the NCAA.  Felt that way from the beginning.  Also felt that everyone should have been fired and a clean slate was the way to go. 

For the record I feel the same way about the NFL and the off field stuff.  Shouldn't be suspended for things you do off the field unless it affects you on the field (though feel the team should be able to do what they want i.e. NFL shouldn't suspend Ray Rice, but the Ravens could certainly cut him). 

Sports sanctioning bodies shouldn't be morality police, they should police the field and the things that affect the field.  Period.  The PSU scandal had nothing to do with the field, competition, etc. and as such the NCAA had no business doing anything about it.

Especially in the NFL those suspensions are about "protecting the brand" far more than morality.  I don't think the NFL gives a crap about protecting women despite the pink gloves once a year.  It was just a PR move.

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Offline eja117

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I definitely don't think the NCAA or the NFL or NBA cares about women or issues but I think they shooouullld and I can't really blame them for attempting to appear like they do once in a while.

But I admit I would have preferred the actual people involved to be punished instead of the athletes playing years after what happened.

Offline D.o.s.

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I agree with the three of you for the most part, but I very heavily disagree that the Sandusky thing wasn't involved with football, insofar as I don't think the blind eye is turned if he isn't involved with the beloved sports program, which carries a (frankly disgusting) amount of weight in that community.

Does that mean the NCAA should have been involved? There's merit to both sides.
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Offline eja117

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I agree, but it's also a little disgusting the world wouldn't care about it otherwise. If a top legendary physics prof at MIT did this would they cut physics scholarships there? Fine MIT physics? It wouldn't have made much of a dent in the news anyway