If I had a chance to trade Smart For Elfrid Peyton I would do it in a heartbeat

[greenrunsdeep41]

nvm you guys are right stats do count when they support my arguments

Elfrid with 19 points (7-19), 8 assists, 8 rebounds tonight

Marcus  with 6 points (1-8) , 3 rebs, 2 assists , 1-5 three pointers.

ftfy

Haha exactly. Especially because this pretty much all started when he'd wait until Smart had a bad game on the same night that EP had a good night.

Nope.....I never waited for Smart to have a bad game, he pretty much does it evey 2 games or so, or even more frequently

but I actually never call out Smart on every single "bad" game because it makes no sense too.

Elfrid did not have that  great of game last night anyway. And Smart wasnt as bad as his attrocious box score looked.....

What's funny is I point out stats only to connect the dots....but some cant seem to do it...

Marcus is not that good of a shooter, but hes reguarded as a decent one......

Although I thought he played really good as a hard working effort player tonight, he still was MR Brick down the stretch.

He took it to the whole once or twice, and even the one where ht ook Tyler Johnson to the lane, it just looked so weak.

In turn PRessey looked better taking it to the rim. Marcus just looks like hes no that type of guy, he just cant slash like an NBA Player, at least not yet.....

Elfrid Payton was doing reverse layups on 3 guys last night, consecutively like they could not stop him.

When I argue about Smart and Elfrid , i might throw stats in, but it's more to prove the skillsets they have and don't.

I dont understand why this conversation is still going on. These is literally no resolution with this guy. But with that said im having a ton of fun pointing out his crazy contradictions.

^^^Says he has never called Marcus Smart out for having a bad game..Quotes himself calling Marcus smart out for having a bad game. This is getting crazy fun. I mean look back at some of these pages this guy flip flops more then fox news.

[celtics2030]

nvm you guys are right stats do count when they support my arguments

Elfrid with 19 points (7-19), 8 assists, 8 rebounds tonight

Marcus  with 6 points (1-8) , 3 rebs, 2 assists , 1-5 three pointers.

ftfy

Haha exactly. Especially because this pretty much all started when he'd wait until Smart had a bad game on the same night that EP had a good night.

Nope.....I never waited for Smart to have a bad game, he pretty much does it evey 2 games or so, or even more frequently

but I actually never call out Smart on every single "bad" game because it makes no sense too.

Elfrid did not have that  great of game last night anyway. And Smart wasnt as bad as his attrocious box score looked.....

What's funny is I point out stats only to connect the dots....but some cant seem to do it...

Marcus is not that good of a shooter, but hes reguarded as a decent one......

Although I thought he played really good as a hard working effort player tonight, he still was MR Brick down the stretch.

He took it to the whole once or twice, and even the one where ht ook Tyler Johnson to the lane, it just looked so weak.

In turn PRessey looked better taking it to the rim. Marcus just looks like hes no that type of guy, he just cant slash like an NBA Player, at least not yet.....

Elfrid Payton was doing reverse layups on 3 guys last night, consecutively like they could not stop him.

When I argue about Smart and Elfrid , i might throw stats in, but it's more to prove the skillsets they have and don't.

I dont understand why this conversation is still going on. These is literally no resolution with this guy. But with that said im having a ton of fun pointing out his crazy contradictions.

^^^Says he has never called Marcus Smart out for having a bad game..Quotes himself calling Marcus smart out for having a bad game. This is getting crazy fun. I mean look back at some of these pages this guy flip flops more then fox news.

Bad games are bad games........The point is that those bad games mean nothing, i never crap on Smart because he has a bad game....

I go into what he does in those games and what hes not doing.

Some of my posts are also in response to stat people, so yea i play along sometimes.

When Smart has a bad game , I still know if he played good defense, played good point guard for the game.

Its not all about stats during a bad game, but I can at least point out what both are doing.

Another thing that bothers is me is the rational of a celtic blog poster which is a lot like fox news.


"Payton a lousy terrible never will be able to shoot ever in his life SHOOTER"

Smart on the other hand "He's not driving as much as we thought he would, but he will improve"

See , this is what people do, its human instinct, only a few, VERY FEW people can throw all bias, all denial , all anger, all defense mechnisms aside and provice a view that doesnt involve emotion.


I can say "SMART is a terrible driver, not even NBA caliber, cant finish , is basically a black Steve Kerr on Offense (Who cant shoot 1/10 of Kerr's abilitieS) and has no game inside  the three point line"

This will be met by ANGER POSTS, "YOUR wrong" "why are you so harsh" "Do you hate the guy?"

"I cant take you seriously if you say these things"

But its ok to trash all over Payton (or any other player in general)


This is what the typical homer forum includes, people like this who just cant take it, and need to unleash their anger.

I never criticize a player like that anyways, because some people choose words that are just way over the top, much like presidents using words that are just way over exaggerate.

Let's be 50/50 with everything, so at least we can sound like we aren't just using posts to voice out anger and frustration.

[greenrunsdeep41]

nvm you guys are right stats do count when they support my arguments

Elfrid with 19 points (7-19), 8 assists, 8 rebounds tonight

Marcus  with 6 points (1-8) , 3 rebs, 2 assists , 1-5 three pointers.

ftfy

Haha exactly. Especially because this pretty much all started when he'd wait until Smart had a bad game on the same night that EP had a good night.

Nope.....I never waited for Smart to have a bad game, he pretty much does it evey 2 games or so, or even more frequently

but I actually never call out Smart on every single "bad" game because it makes no sense too.

Elfrid did not have that  great of game last night anyway. And Smart wasnt as bad as his attrocious box score looked.....

What's funny is I point out stats only to connect the dots....but some cant seem to do it...

Marcus is not that good of a shooter, but hes reguarded as a decent one......

Although I thought he played really good as a hard working effort player tonight, he still was MR Brick down the stretch.

He took it to the whole once or twice, and even the one where ht ook Tyler Johnson to the lane, it just looked so weak.

In turn PRessey looked better taking it to the rim. Marcus just looks like hes no that type of guy, he just cant slash like an NBA Player, at least not yet.....

Elfrid Payton was doing reverse layups on 3 guys last night, consecutively like they could not stop him.

When I argue about Smart and Elfrid , i might throw stats in, but it's more to prove the skillsets they have and don't.

I dont understand why this conversation is still going on. These is literally no resolution with this guy. But with that said im having a ton of fun pointing out his crazy contradictions.

^^^Says he has never called Marcus Smart out for having a bad game..Quotes himself calling Marcus smart out for having a bad game. This is getting crazy fun. I mean look back at some of these pages this guy flip flops more then fox news.

Bad games are bad games........The point is that those bad games mean nothing, i never crap on Smart because he has a bad game....

I go into what he does in those games and what hes not doing.

Some of my posts are also in response to stat people, so yea i play along sometimes.

When Smart has a bad game , I still know if he played good defense, played good point guard for the game.

Its not all about stats during a bad game, but I can at least point out what both are doing.

Another thing that bothers is me is the rational of a celtic blog poster which is a lot like fox news.


"Payton a lousy terrible never will be able to shoot ever in his life SHOOTER"

Smart on the other hand "He's not driving as much as we thought he would, but he will improve"

See , this is what people do, its human instinct, only a few, VERY FEW people can throw all bias, all denial , all anger, all defense mechnisms aside and provice a view that doesnt involve emotion.


I can say "SMART is a terrible driver, not even NBA caliber, cant finish , is basically a black Steve Kerr on Offense (Who cant shoot 1/10 of Kerr's abilitieS) and has no game inside  the three point line"

This will be met by ANGER POSTS, "YOUR wrong" "why are you so harsh" "Do you hate the guy?"

"I cant take you seriously if you say these things"

But its ok to trash all over Payton (or any other player in general)


This is what the typical homer forum includes, people like this who just cant take it, and need to unleash their anger.

Your contradictory nature makes it close to impossible to take you seriously. Elfrid Payton and Marcus Smart are both different and talented players. Time will tell who is better, dissecting their current skills as a way of projection of their future is like watching a 4 year old shoot 100 shots and trying to make a distinction on wether or not they'll be quality athletes. Its fine to do, and people will do it. But it is ultimately pointless.

Fact of matter, DA is a quality GM. Smart is a quality basketball player. We, for the most part, are Celtics fans. You, for the most part, dont want to be wrong in an argument that will never satisfy you. So go talk about how happy you are that the Magic got Payton on their blog. Because this is getting sad. Go home.

[Al91]

Payton hasn't played in one meaningful game yet in his career. Smart has played in plenty thanks to this playoff push. I'll reserve judgement on just how good Payton really is for a couple years.

By the way, this is coming from someone who saw him play in college and frequently catches Orlando games on TV since I've relocated down South; I'm actually ignoring stats in this case.

[greece66]

nvm you guys are right stats do count when they support my arguments

Elfrid with 19 points (7-19), 8 assists, 8 rebounds tonight

Marcus  with 6 points (1-8) , 3 rebs, 2 assists , 1-5 three pointers.

ftfy

Haha exactly. Especially because this pretty much all started when he'd wait until Smart had a bad game on the same night that EP had a good night.

Nope.....I never waited for Smart to have a bad game, he pretty much does it evey 2 games or so, or even more frequently

but I actually never call out Smart on every single "bad" game because it makes no sense too.

Elfrid did not have that  great of game last night anyway. And Smart wasnt as bad as his attrocious box score looked.....

What's funny is I point out stats only to connect the dots....but some cant seem to do it...

Marcus is not that good of a shooter, but hes reguarded as a decent one......

Although I thought he played really good as a hard working effort player tonight, he still was MR Brick down the stretch.

He took it to the whole once or twice, and even the one where ht ook Tyler Johnson to the lane, it just looked so weak.

In turn PRessey looked better taking it to the rim. Marcus just looks like hes no that type of guy, he just cant slash like an NBA Player, at least not yet.....

Elfrid Payton was doing reverse layups on 3 guys last night, consecutively like they could not stop him.

When I argue about Smart and Elfrid , i might throw stats in, but it's more to prove the skillsets they have and don't.

I dont understand why this conversation is still going on. These is literally no resolution with this guy. But with that said im having a ton of fun pointing out his crazy contradictions.

^^^Says he has never called Marcus Smart out for having a bad game..Quotes himself calling Marcus smart out for having a bad game. This is getting crazy fun. I mean look back at some of these pages this guy flip flops more then fox news.

Bad games are bad games........The point is that those bad games mean nothing, i never crap on Smart because he has a bad game....

I go into what he does in those games and what hes not doing.

Some of my posts are also in response to stat people, so yea i play along sometimes.

When Smart has a bad game , I still know if he played good defense, played good point guard for the game.

Its not all about stats during a bad game, but I can at least point out what both are doing.

Another thing that bothers is me is the rational of a celtic blog poster which is a lot like fox news.


"Payton a lousy terrible never will be able to shoot ever in his life SHOOTER"

Smart on the other hand "He's not driving as much as we thought he would, but he will improve"

See , this is what people do, its human instinct, only a few, VERY FEW people can throw all bias, all denial , all anger, all defense mechnisms aside and provice a view that doesnt involve emotion.


I can say "SMART is a terrible driver, not even NBA caliber, cant finish , is basically a black Steve Kerr on Offense (Who cant shoot 1/10 of Kerr's abilitieS) and has no game inside  the three point line"

This will be met by ANGER POSTS, "YOUR wrong" "why are you so harsh" "Do you hate the guy?"

"I cant take you seriously if you say these things"

But its ok to trash all over Payton (or any other player in general)


This is what the typical homer forum includes, people like this who just cant take it, and need to unleash their anger.

Your contradictory nature makes it close to impossible to take you seriously. Elfrid Payton and Marcus Smart are both different and talented players. Time will tell who is better, dissecting their current skills as a way of projection of their future is like watching a 4 year old shoot 100 shots and trying to make a distinction on wether or not they'll be quality athletes. Its fine to do, and people will do it. But it is ultimately pointless.

Fact of matter, DA is a quality GM. Smart is a quality basketball player. We, for the most part, are Celtics fans. You, for the most part, dont want to be wrong in an argument that will never satisfy you. So go talk about how happy you are that the Magic got Payton on their blog. Because this is getting sad. Go home.

Thanks and TP for saying this.
This is getting tedious.
I for one, will abstain from commenting here, this is just feeding into his desire for attention.

[hwangjini_1]

tp to g666. how many pages is this thread? it has run its course and we are doing little else than feeding 2030 at this stage.

good night everyone.

[droopdog7]

I can't comment on Peyton because I have not seen him very much.  But in all honesty, I am not sure I have heard a single shred of decent evidence since on this forum that points to smart ever being a good player (defense aside).  The only comments I have read center around hopes and prayers.

Of course, there are also the numbers that people throw out to compare him to players that eventually became good.  Nevermind that there are also players putting up numbers that eventually fell into the abyss.

[celtics2030]

2:45 and 4:07 

I want to see Smart do any of this........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6qid3iBvpo

[Rondo9]

edit.

[GetLucky]

I can't comment on Peyton because I have not seen him very much.  But in all honesty, I am not sure I have heard a single shred of decent evidence since on this forum that points to smart ever being a good player (defense aside).  The only comments I have read center around hopes and prayers.

Of course, there are also the numbers that people throw out to compare him to players that eventually became good.  Nevermind that there are also players putting up numbers that eventually fell into the abyss.

If you think we would've won the Finals in 2009 and 2010 if KG and Perk didn't get hurt, you have no right to criticize people who are speculating about a rookie's future. The thing about the NBA is the fact that all the statistics are based on correlative data. The only "proof" you get is, indeed, based on what happens. So all we can do is speculate about possible improvement through lots of variables.

In a way, random forums like this are the best we can do to help the common fan form an intelligent opinion. Here, lots of numbers and data and videos are put out to support a plethora of opinions, all helping one form their own opinion and fight for said thought. There is no use discouraging these conversations, nor is there any merit in condemning them for not having "concrete evidence."

[LarBrd33]

Based on what I've seen so far this year, it looks like we'll probably look back on this rookie class and see Smart as maybe the 9th best player?   Noel, Wiggins, Parker, Payton, Mirotic, Nurkic seem to all be superior prospects as of right now.  Unless Embiid's leg falls off, he's a lock to be better.   Still not telling what kind of players Aaron Gordon or Dante Exum will develop into, but I'd take a wild guess that at least one of those guys will develop into a better player than Smart.  I know statistically, Galloway, Clarkson and McGary all had arguably a better rookie season than Smart, but I don't put much stock in that.  Still room for some late development from underperformers like Stauskas, McDermott, Vonleh or some other surprise late bloomer, but I'd guess Smart ends up the 9th best player.  Dario Saric is a long-term wildcard from this draft.  Maybe Smart doesn't even end up in the top 10.

Edit:  Actually a couple of those rookies (Mirotic and Nerlens Noel) weren't in the 2014 draft class.   So maybe if we're looking back on the 2014 draft class, Smart will be 7th or something.

[tazzmaniac]

Based on what I've seen so far this year, it looks like we'll probably look back on this rookie class and see Smart as maybe the 9th best player?   Noel, Wiggins, Parker, Payton, Mirotic, Nurkic seem to all be superior prospects as of right now.  Unless Embiid's leg falls off, he's a lock to be better.   Still not telling what kind of players Aaron Gordon or Dante Exum will develop into, but I'd take a wild guess that at least one of those guys will develop into a better player than Smart.  I know statistically, Galloway, Clarkson and McGary all had arguably a better rookie season than Smart, but I don't put much stock in that.  Still room for some late development from underperformers like Stauskas, McDermott, Vonleh or some other surprise late bloomer, but I'd guess Smart ends up the 9th best player.  Dario Saric is a long-term wildcard from this draft.  Maybe Smart doesn't even end up in the top 10.

Edit:  Actually a couple of those rookies (Mirotic and Nerlens Noel) weren't in the 2014 draft class.   So maybe if we're looking back on the 2014 draft class, Smart will be 7th or something.

You didn't mention Randle.  Smart and Randle were really the only two choices for the sixth pick.  As long as Smart turns out as good or better than Randle, Ainge made a good choice.  If Smart ends up being 7th best in his draft that isn't bad since he was only the 6th pick. 

[vjcsmoke]

Based on what I've seen so far this year, it looks like we'll probably look back on this rookie class and see Smart as maybe the 9th best player?

Well considering that we took Smart with the 6th overall pick.  If he is the 6th to 10th best player in the draft that would make sense.  If he turns out to be a top 5 player, that would mean we drafted better than his position.  I don't see what's wrong with him being the 9th best if he is taken 6th, but it would be bad if he was the 15th best player.  Which I don't think will be the case.

Since the Celtics did not have the opportunity to draft in the top 5, it doesn't make sense to compare Smart to a player we never had the opportunity to draft.

So out the window immediately go Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Gordon, and Exum.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/results/rounds/_/year/2014/round/1

Ok who are taken next:
6. Smart
7. Randle (must likely point of comparision since we obviously passed on him and let the Lakers have him)
8. Stauskas
9. Vonleh
10. Peyton

Of these 5, Randle, Stauskas, and Vonleh have been meh.  Which is why I suppose OP has chosen to compare Peyton to Smart.

What about the next 5?

11. McDermott
12. Saric
13. Lavine
14. Warren
15. Payne

So out of these picks 6-15.  Who has lit the NBA on fire?  It seems fair to say that Smart is among the top players in this group of 10 comparable draftees.

Would I rather have the #1 pick and Wiggins?  Sure.  But that didn't happen.  Would I rather have Nurkic than James Young?  At this point, yes.  But it didn't happen, because Nurkic was scooped just a pick earlier than Young.  It's hard to make comparisons to players that you never had the chance to draft, now the ones that you passed over, well then it's fair to make a comparison.

[loco_91]

Based on what I've seen so far this year, it looks like we'll probably look back on this rookie class and see Smart as maybe the 9th best player?

Well considering that we took Smart with the 6th overall pick.  If he is the 6th to 10th best player in the draft that would make sense.  If he turns out to be a top 5 player, that would mean we drafted better than his position.  I don't see what's wrong with him being the 9th best if he is taken 6th, but it would be bad if he was the 15th best player.  Which I don't think will be the case.

Since the Celtics did not have the opportunity to draft in the top 5, it doesn't make sense to compare Smart to a player we never had the opportunity to draft.

So out the window immediately go Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Gordon, and Exum.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/results/rounds/_/year/2014/round/1

Ok who are taken next:
6. Smart
7. Randle (must likely point of comparision since we obviously passed on him and let the Lakers have him)
8. Stauskas
9. Vonleh
10. Peyton

Of these 5, Randle, Stauskas, and Vonleh have been meh.  Which is why I suppose OP has chosen to compare Peyton to Smart.

What about the next 5?

11. McDermott
12. Saric
13. Lavine
14. Warren
15. Payne

So out of these picks 6-15.  Who has lit the NBA on fire?  It seems fair to say that Smart is among the top players in this group of 10 comparable draftees.

Would I rather have the #1 pick and Wiggins?  Sure.  But that didn't happen.  Would I rather have Nurkic than James Young?  At this point, yes.  But it didn't happen, because Nurkic was scooped just a pick earlier than Young.  It's hard to make comparisons to players that you never had the chance to draft, now the ones that you passed over, well then it's fair to make a comparison.

Thanks for this. Sure, Wiggins looks better than Smart - it isn't like we could've drafted him. But Peyton is far from a lock to be better, Nurkic is in a similar boat, and nobody else drafted after #6 is really a thread - Julius Randle really? Dario Saric really? I think people criminally underrate Smart's D on this forum, he is a far better defender than anyone in the class, besides maybe wiggins, right now.

Moreover, none of Parker, Gordon or Exum have shown any indication that they will be better. In my eyes, Smart could easily end up one of the top 2-3 2014 draftees behind Wiggins and Embiid if he's healthy.

[Ilikesports17]

This game illustrates what Smart fans have been saying about him all along. He makes winning plays. Every now and than it comes via a big three and a game winner but more often its the little things like being in position to take a charge on Derozan forcing him to fade away late in OT.

Dude wins.