Author Topic: Does it work?  (Read 4561 times)

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Does it work?
« on: January 05, 2015, 12:37:47 PM »

Offline bmac934

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Please hear me out, and read the entire post before saying anything.  Seeking opinions on if this would work.

Trade Jeff Green for Lance Stephenson.  I know what you guys are thinking, way too shooting guard heavy, especially since we are starting to see Marcus Smart play less point guard and play more off the ball.  But prior to the rajon rondo deal, marcus was thriving next to Evan Turner as they were splitting the play making roles.  Lance Stephenson does just that as well.  Lance is no point guard but is capable of running an offense in stints.  So with this trade we would now have three playmakers, who can all play off of each other.  Lance is also pretty big for a two guard so we won't see the mismatches that would be associated with losing our small forward.

With a frontcourt of: Evan, Lance, Marcus, Avery, Jae, ( & Hopefully James Young in the near future) I see no consequences from being "too shooting guard heavy" because Evan, Jae, (james once he puts on some weight), and even marcus and lance can all guard the 3.

PS - With Lance Avery & Marcus we can see that 3 guard lineup everyone loved so much!

Re: Does it work?
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2015, 12:58:45 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Absolutely no reliable perimeter shooting. Turner and Stephenson already have a well-documented disdain for each other. What could go wrong?
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Re: Does it work?
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2015, 01:10:33 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Absolutely no reliable perimeter shooting. Turner and Stephenson already have a well-documented disdain for each other. What could go wrong?
add in the side issue of Stephenson now underperforming and being a headache in the Bobcats locker room now, why would we want to bring him here? 

not against trading Green but I don't want a player who's underperforming, duplicative of what we already have and has a sizable contract.

Let Stephenson get back to being as productive as his last year in Indy before I consider taking him on here.

Re: Does it work?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2015, 01:57:50 PM »

Offline bmac934

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Absolutely no reliable perimeter shooting. Turner and Stephenson already have a well-documented disdain for each other. What could go wrong?

Lol and your telling me Jeff green is a reliable perimeter jump shooter?  Gimme a break, lance and jg are pretty much the same shooter.  And once again gimme a break, players bump heads all the time, obviously there fight in practice wasn't a good thing but it's not a well documented disdain (unless I'm missing direct quotes from lance or evan).

We're not gonna get anything better than lance for Jeff.  At best we get a late first and I'd rather have lance.  He may be underperforming but he's got unmistakeable talent, star potential, and he's young on a reasonable contract.  Charlotte just isn't the best team for him.  He's best with the ball in his hands (led league in triple doubles last year I'm pretty sure) and kemba is a ball pounding point guard.  He'd be infinitely better in our system with no clear cut playmaker or facilitator. 

The headache is obviously a concern in a young locker room.  But with vets like Wallace and Nelson, and the fact we may be able to sell him on being our building block might slow his roll.

Re: Does it work?
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2015, 02:14:18 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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I think your basic idea of pairing Stephens with Smart and even Turner is ok. The shooting would be tough but I think they are good enough all around to make it work.

My problem with the idea is that I dont truct Stephenson on a young team. I think he could have a negative effect on the development of all the young celtics. At this point the only thing the Cs are really paying for is to develop the young guys we have.
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Re: Does it work?
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2015, 05:34:07 PM »

Offline Jonny CC

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You could get Stephenson for a bag of nickels and get more for Green in another trade.   
Before a game on Christmas against the Pacers, Bird told Chuck Person that he had a present for him. During the game, Bird shot a 3-pointer in front of Person. Immediately after releasing the ball, Bird said to Person, "Merry F!#*ing Christmas!" and then the shot went in.

Re: Does it work?
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2015, 05:46:12 PM »

Offline bmac934

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You could get Stephenson for a bag of nickels and get more for Green in another trade.   

No shot we could get better than lance stephenson for Jeff green.

Re: Does it work?
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2015, 06:02:41 PM »

Offline Jonny CC

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You could get Stephenson for a bag of nickels and get more for Green in another trade.   

No shot we could get better than lance stephenson for Jeff green.

I disagree.  They are looking to unload Stephenson.  You could get him for far less than Green.  Green is going to be a valuable trade chip at the deadline. 
Before a game on Christmas against the Pacers, Bird told Chuck Person that he had a present for him. During the game, Bird shot a 3-pointer in front of Person. Immediately after releasing the ball, Bird said to Person, "Merry F!#*ing Christmas!" and then the shot went in.

Re: Does it work?
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2015, 06:33:57 PM »

Offline bmac934

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You could get Stephenson for a bag of nickels and get more for Green in another trade.   

No shot we could get better than lance stephenson for Jeff green.

I disagree.  They are looking to unload Stephenson.  You could get him for far less than Green.  Green is going to be a valuable trade chip at the deadline.

Stephenson will be traded for less than market value, that is obviously true.  But he will not be given away (josh smith style) for a bag of nickles.  They'd keep him over accepting a poop package.  And maybe your right in the fact that were could be slightly underselling jeff green because of lances lowered value.  Completely 100% disagree though that we could get better than lance stephenson for jeff green.  Slight possibility the knicks want to get better and give us Shumpert?  No thanks, gimme stephenson.  Besides the knicks, we would be getting a filler and a mid twenties first round draft pick from a playoff team.  Realistically the only other team that would be willing to trade for green is a playoff team.  Once again, no thanks I'll take stephenson.  If you have any realistic ideas throw them out.  Stephenson has the guaranteed potential to be a star.  Realistically (regardless of whether or not you think as of right now Jeff Green is the far and away better player) were not doing better than Lance. 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 07:17:05 PM by bmac934 »

Re: Does it work?
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2015, 07:04:32 PM »

Offline hondobird33

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Agree that with Green we can get more.  It will be difficult to take advantage of the $12.9m trade exception from Rondo deal.  Looks like Hornets are fading.  Would they want to cut payroll and take Stephenson in return for trade exception and one of our many second rounders?  Then we move Green hopefully for a late first rounder.

Re: Does it work?
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2015, 07:19:28 PM »

Offline bmac934

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Agree that with Green we can get more.  It will be difficult to take advantage of the $12.9m trade exception from Rondo deal.  Looks like Hornets are fading.  Would they want to cut payroll and take Stephenson in return for trade exception and one of our many second rounders?  Then we move Green hopefully for a late first rounder.

Especially considering the abundance of draft picks we have, can you explain why you believe Stephenson is less valuable than a late first rounder?  Because clearly if you have us getting Lance with a trade exception (which i doubt will happen because Cha is still looking at the playoffs) the problem is not his attitude/behavior.

Re: Does it work?
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2015, 08:23:50 AM »

Offline Al91

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There has never been a guarantee that Stephenson will be a star. The same can be said for Green, let me make that clear first.

Stephenson was in a great situation in Indiana with a GM who believed in him. The same GM made the rest of the team believe in him too. Let's not forget it wasn't long ago that Stephenson was the end of the bench guy giving LeBron the choke sign like he actually made a different in the game himself. Stephenson was on his way out of the league had it not been for Bird's mentoring.

On player beefs. Yeah, there's instances in practice (from what we read since I'm sure 99% of us have never seen a full NBA practice) where players mess around and get in each other's face. That stuff ends in practice and can make the team better chemistry wise. Obviously the opposite happened for Indiana upon jettisoning Granger and picking up Turner. The team went to garbage after that and the lockerroom atmosphere was cited as an issue by the team's mainstays in West and Hibbert.

*Supposedly* players on Indiana currently wanted nothing to do with Lance being brought back to the team via trade this season. That speaks volumes if you ask me.

On the Shumpert/Stephenson comparison...well they're uncomparable trade wise. One is on his rookie deal still while the other is on year one of a $20 million dollar contract with a team option in year three. That alone makes Shumpert more valuable. Less money and arguably the same production as Stephenson this year.

On the idea of Green for Stephenson or some sort of package....No. Green will net so much more in return than will Stephenson. Stephenson makes more, produces less, and can arguably be labeled as a direct cause for the Hornet's misfortune this year. I can name many more teams that need a capable, effecient SF than a ball-stopping SG (LAC, OKC, NOLA come to mind solely in the West).

This three guard lineup idea is fooey. The team that runs it best may have to trade one of their PGs before the deadline, looking at your Phoenix, so I hardly would concede that I wanna watch anything like Stephenson, Turner, and Smart. Dragic, Bledsoe, and Thomas is only successful because they can all shoot. I don't like Stephenson, Turner, or Smart shooting right now to be honest.

Clearly, Charlotte and Stephenson don't fit. I thought it would be a great fit before the season began and push the Hornets towards the top five seeds. Boy was I fooled. It's not just Lance, obviously the loss of Tolliver and McRoberts, stabilizers on that team, haven't done the Hornets any good either. But this only makes me believe that Lance needs the perfect situation to suceed. I don't think Boston is that situation at all and I'd rather not give up our first, or second best player, in return.
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Re: Does it work?
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2015, 01:28:48 PM »

Offline bmac934

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There has never been a guarantee that Stephenson will be a star. The same can be said for Green, let me make that clear first.

Stephenson was in a great situation in Indiana with a GM who believed in him. The same GM made the rest of the team believe in him too. Let's not forget it wasn't long ago that Stephenson was the end of the bench guy giving LeBron the choke sign like he actually made a different in the game himself. Stephenson was on his way out of the league had it not been for Bird's mentoring.

On player beefs. Yeah, there's instances in practice (from what we read since I'm sure 99% of us have never seen a full NBA practice) where players mess around and get in each other's face. That stuff ends in practice and can make the team better chemistry wise. Obviously the opposite happened for Indiana upon jettisoning Granger and picking up Turner. The team went to garbage after that and the lockerroom atmosphere was cited as an issue by the team's mainstays in West and Hibbert.

*Supposedly* players on Indiana currently wanted nothing to do with Lance being brought back to the team via trade this season. That speaks volumes if you ask me.

On the Shumpert/Stephenson comparison...well they're uncomparable trade wise. One is on his rookie deal still while the other is on year one of a $20 million dollar contract with a team option in year three. That alone makes Shumpert more valuable. Less money and arguably the same production as Stephenson this year.

On the idea of Green for Stephenson or some sort of package....No. Green will net so much more in return than will Stephenson. Stephenson makes more, produces less, and can arguably be labeled as a direct cause for the Hornet's misfortune this year. I can name many more teams that need a capable, effecient SF than a ball-stopping SG (LAC, OKC, NOLA come to mind solely in the West).

This three guard lineup idea is fooey. The team that runs it best may have to trade one of their PGs before the deadline, looking at your Phoenix, so I hardly would concede that I wanna watch anything like Stephenson, Turner, and Smart. Dragic, Bledsoe, and Thomas is only successful because they can all shoot. I don't like Stephenson, Turner, or Smart shooting right now to be honest.

Clearly, Charlotte and Stephenson don't fit. I thought it would be a great fit before the season began and push the Hornets towards the top five seeds. Boy was I fooled. It's not just Lance, obviously the loss of Tolliver and McRoberts, stabilizers on that team, haven't done the Hornets any good either. But this only makes me believe that Lance needs the perfect situation to suceed. I don't think Boston is that situation at all and I'd rather not give up our first, or second best player, in return.

I had said guaranteed star potential.  Which is true, he does have the potential to be a star, especially in the right situation.  And there is no package we can get for green that would be better than a package centered around lance stephenson.  Maybe work in wright, Nelson, or zeller and get back biyombo or vonleh.  Or maybe get a protected first back.  But any other team that would be willing to trade for jg would be a playoff team offering a deal around their first round (in the 20's) pick.  With the amount of draft picks we have why gamble on a player having lances skill and potential.  Id rather gamble on lances performance off the court.  I know a lot of you guys won't agree but I have a feeling that for lance (at age 24) to know that a historied franchise like the celtics are "his team" would turn his behavior around at least a little.  To be the blame of a team in the playoffs last year and being a bottom feeder this year definitely doesn't help.  And for those of you saying he's not performing well, 10 5 and 7 is a good stat line.  If you look at his game log (points wise) he has games that he erupts and games that he doesn't score.  That was the knock on Jeff green until he started playing with rondo and was a consistent 20ppg scorer.  Sharing a backcourt with kemba is a very bad setup for lance.

Who could Nola or lac give us?  And okc I do believe already has a pretty good sf by the name of Kevin durant.  Off the bench they already have that 6th man by the name of Reggie Jackson.

At 9 mill stephenson and green make the same amount.  And also there is a huge difference between having a three guard lineup of all point guards and a three guard lineup of what we can put on the court.

Side note I wanna throw in with stephenson, crowder, smart, bradley we have 4 young, talented, and ALL AROUND PLAYERS.  We would be a defensive nightmare and we would still be a more than capable offensive team.  He would also add to our group of high energy and intangible players who everyone knows really care about winning.  Again you guys will probably disagree but I believe he fits perfectly (minus the attitude problems everyone knows about) with our team.  Also wanna throw in that last year right now stephenson was a borderline all star and a lot of people would have laughed at celtics fans for saying they could get stephenson for green.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 02:08:22 PM by bmac934 »

Re: Does it work?
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2015, 02:24:43 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Right now Lance is not worth much in the eyes of many. He does have a appealing contract length when you factor in the team option for the third year. But I still would not do Jeff Green for him, especially since we have an abundance of 2 guards.

I would love to do a 3 team trade with Avery and Stephenson. Avery goes to CHA and Stephenson goes somewhere not named Boston. We get back contracts that expire no later than 2016(when Wallace's is done). This trade would be more to make way for James Young and cut down our cap when 2016 FA hits.

Re: Does it work?
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2015, 02:40:54 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Right now Lance is not worth much in the eyes of many. He does have a appealing contract length when you factor in the team option for the third year. But I still would not do Jeff Green for him, especially since we have an abundance of 2 guards.

I would love to do a 3 team trade with Avery and Stephenson. Avery goes to CHA and Stephenson goes somewhere not named Boston. We get back contracts that expire no later than 2016(when Wallace's is done). This trade would be more to make way for James Young and cut down our cap when 2016 FA hits.
this would definitely be preferable to the original proposal.  would want more than expirings though for AB.  an early second rounder may do (prefer a first but AB isn't fetching that in a deal).  better of the picks between Charlotte and whoever gets stephenson if that's possible