Author Topic: The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston  (Read 6099 times)

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The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston
« on: December 28, 2014, 04:24:04 PM »

Offline ctrey

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Where is there any evidence to indicate that the Celtics can not get an expensive FA? There is none. None. Not one bit. Boston has not had money to spend on FA's in well, ever. Garnett did not want to come here because he was loyal. To a fault.

Watch a Celtics game. They are packed. Even now. Other teams say we have the best, most knowledgeable fans. No fan base salutes ex players like we do. I live in Houston where the team is one of the 4 or 5 best in the NBA and the folks here act like they barely exist. Sure the taxes and weather is great but if you are not JJ Watt they could care less.

You play well in Boston for the C's and you are a God for all time. You don't think that is not a draw? You win in Boston and you are put on the Rushmore of Rushmores. That matters as well. Trust me, next season with all that money we will snag somebody. If not you can rub my nose in it then.

I will never understand where the "nobody will come here" is coming from. We have no evidence to support the argument.

Re: The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2014, 04:46:37 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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This is true... Boston has never had significant cap space.  As far as I can remember, there has never been a point in their entire history that they have had the cap space to sign a max free agent.  Kind of insane, actually.

Re: The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2014, 04:47:50 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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We will see, there  is evidence of players picking places with nice weather or media outlets.  Boston is ok as a media outlet but it can have harsh winters.  Time will tell, I bet I have seen more winters than you have and while I hope we do well, I don't believe we will because of the weather.

Houston, LA and Miami lately seem to do very well and all have nice climate.

Quote
The makeup of championship contenders hasn’t much changed. There are franchises who pull trade and free-agency miracles, like the Heat and Clippers (and like the Lakers are wont to do but have failed at), and there are those who draft committed players into hard-working, committed systems. Large and warm-weather markets, willing to pay a large salary tax, will always favor the former, and the latter will always have to be what smaller markets hope for. - See more at: http://www.red94.net/nba-leagues-power-structure/11023/#sthash.fVY4GXLa.dpuf
http://www.red94.net/nba-leagues-power-structure/11023/
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 04:53:40 PM by Celtics4ever »

Re: The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2014, 05:07:40 PM »

Offline ctrey

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We will see, there  is evidence of players picking places with nice weather or media outlets.  Boston is ok as a media outlet but it can have harsh winters.  Time will tell, I bet I have seen more winters than you have and while I hope we do well, I don't believe we will because of the weather.

Houston, LA and Miami lately seem to do very well and all have nice climate.

Quote
The makeup of championship contenders hasn’t much changed. There are franchises who pull trade and free-agency miracles, like the Heat and Clippers (and like the Lakers are wont to do but have failed at), and there are those who draft committed players into hard-working, committed systems. Large and warm-weather markets, willing to pay a large salary tax, will always favor the former, and the latter will always have to be what smaller markets hope for. - See more at: http://www.red94.net/nba-leagues-power-structure/11023/#sthash.fVY4GXLa.dpuf
http://www.red94.net/nba-leagues-power-structure/11023/

I actually moved here ten years ago. 15 years in NYC and 8 in Connecticut. I know from winters. In fact I miss them. I hate the weather in Houston.

Re: The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2014, 05:17:59 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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a few thoughts:

-it will be difficult to attract a max deal type player, as this team stinks and has no direction. recent history suggests that a max deal player tends to go to a team that is established and/or on the cusp of being a contender.

-a lot of players in this generation do not care about celtic tradition and folklore.  to this generation, celtic pride and tradition is about the recent big 3 era and the bird era.  for many, being part of celtic history will not impact their decision.

-many max deal type players want to market their brand. destinations rooted in entertainment beyond basketball attracts them

-many of the franchises in the nba are cold climate cities in the winter.  i dont think the weather necessarily is a major factor in attracting free agents (i think for many players, $ trumps weather), however for some players, being in a warm climate is more attractive.

-although it might not be accurate, their is a notion with some, that boston remains a racist and/or racially insensitive city.  boston has progressed leaps and bounds, but for some nationally, it is not a community they wish not to be a part of.

Re: The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2014, 05:27:35 PM »

Offline OhioGreen

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I think most great players(superstars/stars) want to go to

a) a team with realistic chance to win it all
b) a team who fits into (a) and is willing to give max contract

Those players will not go to a team with one and not the other!  Of course the exception would be a player at the end of his career, just looking for a ring.

c) a team whose coach they like (Doc gave us a leg up here, BS not so much--at least yet!)
d) a team in a city with great night life(sure there are a few exceptions)
e) a fair weather city
f) a team close to home
g) a team with great fans and tradition

I'm sure you could add one or two other minor factors, but if my assumptions are even reasonably close I don't think it bodes well for us adding a great FA next year!

Re: The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2014, 05:30:51 PM »

Offline OhioGreen

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a few thoughts:

-it will be difficult to attract a max deal type player, as this team stinks and has no direction. recent history suggests that a max deal player tends to go to a team that is established and/or on the cusp of being a contender.

-a lot of players in this generation do not care about celtic tradition and folklore.  to this generation, celtic pride and tradition is about the recent big 3 era and the bird era.  for many, being part of celtic history will not impact their decision.

-many max deal type players want to market their brand. destinations rooted in entertainment beyond basketball attracts them

-many of the franchises in the nba are cold climate cities in the winter.  i dont think the weather necessarily is a major factor in attracting free agents (i think for many players, $ trumps weather), however for some players, being in a warm climate is more attractive.

-although it might not be accurate, their is a notion with some, that boston remains a racist and/or racially insensitive city.  boston has progressed leaps and bounds, but for some nationally, it is not a community they wish not to be a part of.
Must have been typing as you were posting, as both our posts are very similar, and basically agree with everything you mentioned!

Re: The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2014, 08:01:18 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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The weather point is purely subjective. Some people actually enjoy cold, damp, snowy weather.

The city of Boston has a lot going for it, a hell of a lot more than Oklahoma City, Detroit, Charlotte, Cleveland.
I think its more the fact that we never have cap space money for a top notch FA.

This year the problem may be the team is showing no potential. This team needs a few real talented free agents.

Re: The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2014, 08:09:30 PM »

Offline vinnie

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Where is there any evidence to indicate that the Celtics can not get an expensive FA? There is none. None. Not one bit. Boston has not had money to spend on FA's in well, ever. Garnett did not want to come here because he was loyal. To a fault.

Watch a Celtics game. They are packed. Even now. Other teams say we have the best, most knowledgeable fans. No fan base salutes ex players like we do. I live in Houston where the team is one of the 4 or 5 best in the NBA and the folks here act like they barely exist. Sure the taxes and weather is great but if you are not JJ Watt they could care less.

You play well in Boston for the C's and you are a God for all time. You don't think that is not a draw? You win in Boston and you are put on the Rushmore of Rushmores. That matters as well. Trust me, next season with all that money we will snag somebody. If not you can rub my nose in it then.

I will never understand where the "nobody will come here" is coming from. We have no evidence to support the argument.

1. I think that it will be difficult to attract top tier free agents here, because there isn't much on the roster right now that would make a top tier FA say, "Hmmmm. Looks like if I go to Boston we will be winning a championship in no time."

2. You obviously have not been watching many home games lately, because packed is the farthest from what they have been. Nearly every game I have seen, the club seats and luxury boxes are practically empty and the balcony might be 2/3 full. They still draw decent to good crowds, but they definitely are not selling out. You can bet the 1/2 game against Dallas will be packed, however.

3. The Celts still might be able to attract a top-tier free agent, but the weather, lack of nightlife and no one on the roster to entice someone to come here could be major obstacles.

Re: The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2014, 08:20:57 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I think Boston is probably in the 12-15 range of teams where players would like to go. The warm weather and super-major markets will most likely always have the advantage. But the OP is correct in that we have amazing fans and the media market is heavily focused on their sports teams. There are some marketing for players opportunities here as well.

My guess is that people often think of the Celtics as a 'blah' place for FAs compared to the other teams in town - the Red Sox have historic Fenway and have unlimited money to spend and the Patriots have been THE model-system in the NFL for the last 20 years or so. Those teams have no problems attracting talent and they are in the same city as the Cs. We just need to find our next niche (which I think we basically had for the Pierce/KG years).
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 12:18:13 PM by jambr380 »

Re: The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2014, 08:35:46 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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One thing people forget is most of the time players like money. Melo could have played with better players, but took the money and now look at were the Knicks are.

We lost out on David West over a million when we actually had a better team than Indy did.

The ownership will pay for the right players, even maybe over pay a bit. There is a good chance the C's could out bid for some players the next couple of years. Get one player next summer to commit, gets other players too look twice at Boston. This will test DA on how well he can work the negotiation tables.

Re: The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2014, 12:30:56 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Before we traded Rondo, I was of the opinion that we might be able to lure a big time free agent to Boston this off-season.  Now, that dream seems much less likely to become a reality. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2014, 01:31:18 AM »

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

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On the point of tradition. All the  interviews of player in free agency, or approaching free agency, where the prospect of winding up a Celtic is brought up, the players cite the team's history as a plus.
Banner 18 please 😍

Re: The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2014, 01:35:06 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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On the point of tradition. All the  interviews of player in free agency, or approaching free agency, where the prospect of winding up a Celtic is brought up, the players cite the team's history as a plus.

I hate to rain on your parade, but so do the players who are traded here, even when we suck, like Kris Humphries last year, saying that he wanted to, "bring that back," or whatever, even though he's not exactly a player who can make such a change to our team, to say the least.  They all say that stuff - it's just pr crap.  I wouldn't read anything into it.

Re: The silly conventional wisdom about FA's and Boston
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2014, 01:37:38 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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The weather point is purely subjective. Some people actually enjoy cold, damp, snowy weather.

The city of Boston has a lot going for it, a hell of a lot more than Oklahoma City, Detroit, Charlotte, Cleveland.
I think its more the fact that we never have cap space money for a top notch FA.

This year the problem may be the team is showing no potential. This team needs a few real talented free agents.

These guys whine and complain over every little thing like that, and they've got how much money.  Plus, it's not like they'll be dealing with snow removal or anything (they're not Bird, lol. ;D).  Don't they have people for that? ::) Ugh.  It's ridiculous, imo.