Poll

Would you offer Jimmy Butler a max contract this offseason?

Heck yes, he will propel us into the offseason
32 (53.3%)
Would love to see him on the team, but he is not a max player
16 (26.7%)
No, this is typical contract year performance. He will sink to mediocraty next year
11 (18.3%)
Absolutely not, we have Young who is a younger player already on the roster
1 (1.7%)

Total Members Voted: 58

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Re: Max offer Jimmy Butler?
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2014, 10:43:50 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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I donīt think we can entice any top free agents to come to Boston with the current roster
Bingo!!! I give u ur first TP for being correct

I said it like 50 posts ago.  >:(
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Re: Max offer Jimmy Butler?
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2014, 10:49:51 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I donīt think we can entice any top free agents to come to Boston with the current roster

It doesnt mean we cant try. Youre right, its hard to atttact FA especially now, but with the cap space that we will clear up, I would be absolutely upset if Ainge doesnt even place a max offer to Jimmy Butler.

He may not come to us, but it better be not for lack of trying.

Agree, I think he is actually the perfect candidate to recruit.  He is NOT a superstar, he has not won a ring,  he is really starting out.....he hadn't been around forever and is used to colder climate.

Maybe Butler doesn't want to play behind Kobe or LeBron and always be second fiddle.
A young guy like him has time to get rings and try different teams and coaches

He doesn't have to rush out and join the Cavs .

Pretty small minded to think everybody has the same wishes and road to success .

Butler is the perfect candidate to come to Boston.   

He could get more money than teams bloated with star contracts.

I made my first trip to Boston recently . It was a very nice place .  Being from the Deep South I was amazed how comfortable I was there.

Not everybody is horses rear end like Cp3 and Melo .   

Re: Max offer Jimmy Butler?
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2014, 11:11:23 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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Max to Jimmy Butler, but not Rondo?

Jimmy Butler's max would be 4y/$60m, if I'm correct.

Rondo's would be 5y/$100+m.

So yes, aside from the fact that Jimmy Butler is the better player.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

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Re: Max offer Jimmy Butler?
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2014, 11:40:02 PM »

Offline Joe Green

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He is the second best player on that team right now. They will move whoever they have to in order to clear space so they can match any offer sheet.

Bulls tried to extend him for something like 44M/4 Yr and he rejected them. They have 61 million on the books for next year for 7 players. Noah is a FA next summer - and he will want more than $13M he is currently making...

You can't keep 3 max players in today's NBA.. even Miami couldn't do it...

As for other teams - I guess he will have other offers, but I think we can make a pretty good pitch. We are a big market (not LA / NY but he is not going to either one of those), have a decent core and lots of draft picks. If we could max him out and S&T for a center (bradly + picks + trash for Hibbert?) we could have be a contender in the East with JB on board...

Of course you can keep 3 max players in today's NBA.  I'm guessing you've heard of this little [awesome] team called the  Boston Celtics (and obviously MIA was willing to pay LeBron if he wanted to stay, just as CLE is going to continue to pony up for their 3 maxes).  It just severely hurts your ability to put secondary talent around them (notice our players outside the Big 4).  And our guys were making 20+ million, not the ~15 million that Butler would receive for being in the league less than 6 years.

If the Bulls refuse to give him that much, their GM would be fired immediately.  I mean, look at Jimmy Butler and then look at Gordon Hayward.

It's absolutely ridiculous to insinuate Chicago will let him go for flexibility reasons, especially considering they have absolutely none as long as Rose's contract is around (and not even Kahn would be dumb enough to trade for him).

If anything (assuming CHI was worried about money), it would make the most sense for CHI to get some SERIOUS assets or simply expirings and firsts for Noah before he commands his 20mil, and then stick with Butler who is cheaper, younger, and a better player.

Also, I'm pretty sure Noah isn't a FA next summer, he resigned more recently than that.

A. Per hoopshype Noah is a FA NEXT summer (not this one). They will have to pay him $20M since he is virtually non-replaceable
B. IF you think their GM will pay JB $20M or be fired - why not fire him now for refusing to pay him $13M-$14 he was asking?
C. Of course it is POSSIBLE to pay 3, or maybe even10 guys Max because of Bird rights, but there is a thing called hard cap and repeater tax. If they do, in 2016 they will have $70M locked into Rose, JB, Noah and Gibson... how do you repace everyone else for under $10M?

Re: Max offer Jimmy Butler?
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2014, 12:21:19 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Max to Jimmy Butler, but not Rondo?

Jimmy Butler's max would be 4y/$60m, if I'm correct.

Rondo's would be 5y/$100+m.

So yes, aside from the fact that Jimmy Butler is the better player.

You and I will have to disagree on that, lol, but Butler is a guy that you add to a team, imo.  He's not a building block, to me.  Oh, I love his post up game and his Pierce-like ability to get to the line, don't get me wrong, but he's already going to be 26 by the time he signs that contract, and if he's not a piece of your core moving forward, I say pass.  He doesn't fit here, anyway.  We might as well go after Shumpert, except that he's going to be 25, has had injuries, and we've already got Smart.  If only we could find a contender dumb enough to take Bradley...lol. ;D

Re: Max offer Jimmy Butler?
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2014, 01:34:05 AM »

Offline Joe Green

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Max to Jimmy Butler, but not Rondo?

Jimmy Butler's max would be 4y/$60m, if I'm correct.

Rondo's would be 5y/$100+m.

So yes, aside from the fact that Jimmy Butler is the better player.

You and I will have to disagree on that, lol, but Butler is a guy that you add to a team, imo.  He's not a building block, to me.  Oh, I love his post up game and his Pierce-like ability to get to the line, don't get me wrong, but he's already going to be 26 by the time he signs that contract, and if he's not a piece of your core moving forward, I say pass.  He doesn't fit here, anyway.  We might as well go after Shumpert, except that he's going to be 25, has had injuries, and we've already got Smart.  If only we could find a contender dumb enough to take Bradley...lol. ;D

Wow, since when is 26 old? He is ready to enter his prime (28-30 years is when NBA players are most productive). He would be 2-4 years older than Sully / KO / AB / Smart / Zeller so its not like he is the aging star that needs to be moved to clear a spot for young core.

Also, while he is not a Lebron / KD / CP3 type of player you build around - most teams in the NBA don't have that type of player. Also, I think Stevens' system doesn't call for a ball hogging superstar.

What he does bring is:
Elite defense
Efficient offense - especially getting to the line
Unparalleled durability - the ability to provide 3000+ minutes of efficient play per season

I agree he does not make us a contender on his own, but who does? If we add him + one more allstar player (trading the plethora of picks and assets we have) - we are a contender!

Re: Max offer Jimmy Butler?
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2014, 01:42:36 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Max to Jimmy Butler, but not Rondo?

Jimmy Butler's max would be 4y/$60m, if I'm correct.

Rondo's would be 5y/$100+m.

So yes, aside from the fact that Jimmy Butler is the better player.

You and I will have to disagree on that, lol, but Butler is a guy that you add to a team, imo.  He's not a building block, to me.  Oh, I love his post up game and his Pierce-like ability to get to the line, don't get me wrong, but he's already going to be 26 by the time he signs that contract, and if he's not a piece of your core moving forward, I say pass.  He doesn't fit here, anyway.  We might as well go after Shumpert, except that he's going to be 25, has had injuries, and we've already got Smart.  If only we could find a contender dumb enough to take Bradley...lol. ;D

Wow, since when is 26 old? He is ready to enter his prime (28-30 years is when NBA players are most productive). He would be 2-4 years older than Sully / KO / AB / Smart / Zeller so its not like he is the aging star that needs to be moved to clear a spot for young core.

Also, while he is not a Lebron / KD / CP3 type of player you build around - most teams in the NBA don't have that type of player. Also, I think Stevens' system doesn't call for a ball hogging superstar.

What he does bring is:
Elite defense
Efficient offense - especially getting to the line
Unparalleled durability - the ability to provide 3000+ minutes of efficient play per season

I agree he does not make us a contender on his own, but who does? If we add him + one more allstar player (trading the plethora of picks and assets we have) - we are a contender!

I know, it sounds ridiculous, but it's not like we'd be getting a 26 year old Pierce, Joe Johnson, George, or whoever to watch during at least the best years of their prime.  I'd rather keep building through the draft, and can James Young please get some minutes?  Plus, if we're going after defensive guys like Butler, I'd rather sign KJ McDaniels, who is a free agent after this season, but I guess that that's just me.

Re: Max offer Jimmy Butler?
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2014, 01:44:43 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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I donīt think we can entice any top free agents to come to Boston with the current roster
Bingo!!! I give u ur first TP for being correct

I said it like 50 posts ago.  >:(

Lol. ;D

Re: Max offer Jimmy Butler?
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2014, 01:49:36 AM »

Offline Joe Green

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Quote

I know, it sounds ridiculous, but it's not like we'd be getting a 26 year old Pierce, Joe Johnson, George, or whoever to watch during at least the best years of their prime.  I'd rather keep building through the draft, and can James Young please get some minutes?  Plus, if we're going after defensive guys like Butler, I'd rather sign KJ McDaniels, who is a free agent after this season, but I guess that that's just me.

I am not saying he is PP or George (a legitimate MVP candidate before injury) but he is just a step below. BTW, PP at 26 was a defensive liability and BBall is played on both sides of the court. The draft is a crap shoot - it could take years to get an all-star. Please don't compare young (who I love BTW) who has not played a dozen NBA minutes to a guy who plays 40 minutes of elite 2-way ball.

Also - would be have to sign KJ, but again  - not the same class of JB...

Re: Max offer Jimmy Butler?
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2014, 02:17:01 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Can't help but get a Joe Johnson and RudyG. feel from JB. JB is good and some one will give him the max but that contract will define expectations which he will not live up to.

Re: Max offer Jimmy Butler?
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2014, 03:53:45 AM »

Offline Joe Green

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Can't help but get a Joe Johnson and RudyG. feel from JB. JB is good and some one will give him the max but that contract will define expectations which he will not live up to.

I would pay JB twice what I would pay Rudy. Rudy is a one way basketball player, and a low efficiency one at that. I think JB is about equal an in prime JJ - though very different. JJ was an unstoppable offensive player with inside and outside threat and JB will never be that good, but JJ was a hot and cold defensive player while JB never takes a game off...

Twenty years ago, JB would be a quality player who would commend no more than 50% of the max, but in today's hyper inflated salary market, JB is a max player who may turn out to be a LITTLE overpaid...

Re: Max offer Jimmy Butler?
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2014, 07:40:44 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Can't help but get a Joe Johnson and RudyG. feel from JB. JB is good and some one will give him the max but that contract will define expectations which he will not live up to.

I would pay JB twice what I would pay Rudy. Rudy is a one way basketball player, and a low efficiency one at that. I think JB is about equal an in prime JJ - though very different. JJ was an unstoppable offensive player with inside and outside threat and JB will never be that good, but JJ was a hot and cold defensive player while JB never takes a game off...

Twenty years ago, JB would be a quality player who would commend no more than 50% of the max, but in today's hyper inflated salary market, JB is a max player who may turn out to be a LITTLE overpaid...
AB is a little overpaid (8 million instead of 6 million) and you see the kind of response he gets. JB is a 48% fg 2pt, 32% fg 3pt player and 79% ft player who if playing proper mins would be giving you on average for last 2 years of 16pts a game. Compare that to AB who is 46%/34%/78%/16pts and is a year+ years younger. Now JB is better on D and a little better handling the ball but imagine giving JB twice as much $ than AB for those #s. He will be well overpaid. Can a team afford that sure however fans will be turning on this guy 2 years or less after he signs his deal.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 07:47:02 AM by Csfan1984 »

Re: Max offer Jimmy Butler?
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2014, 07:54:20 AM »

Offline Joe Green

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Can't help but get a Joe Johnson and RudyG. feel from JB. JB is good and some one will give him the max but that contract will define expectations which he will not live up to.

I would pay JB twice what I would pay Rudy. Rudy is a one way basketball player, and a low efficiency one at that. I think JB is about equal an in prime JJ - though very different. JJ was an unstoppable offensive player with inside and outside threat and JB will never be that good, but JJ was a hot and cold defensive player while JB never takes a game off...

Twenty years ago, JB would be a quality player who would commend no more than 50% of the max, but in today's hyper inflated salary market, JB is a max player who may turn out to be a LITTLE overpaid...
AB is a little overpaid (8 million instead of 6 million) and you see the kind of response he gets. JB is a 48% fg 2pt, 32% fg 3pt player and 79% ft player who if playing proper mins would be giving you on average for last 2 years of 16pts a game. Compare that to AB who is 46%/34%/78%/16pts and is a year+ years younger. Now JB is better on D and a little better handling the ball but imagine giving JB twice as much $ than AB for those #s. He will be well overpaid. Can a team afford that sure however fans will be turning on this guy 2 years or less after he signs his deal.

JB brings a few things to the table AB will NEVER bring.

1. He is 5 inches taller. AB is a very undersized SG, JB is an oversized one, so much so that he gets to guard the LBJ / KDs of the world. YOU CANNOT TEACH SIZE

2. JB is rugged - he is playing 40 MPG and has no injuries. AB has been out for about 50% of his career !!! You are paying double but getting more than double minutes !!!

You need to think about it in Production / Minute Played / Dollar and then you see JB is worth 3 times AB...

Re: Max offer Jimmy Butler?
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2014, 08:08:14 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Can't help but get a Joe Johnson and RudyG. feel from JB. JB is good and some one will give him the max but that contract will define expectations which he will not live up to.

I would pay JB twice what I would pay Rudy. Rudy is a one way basketball player, and a low efficiency one at that. I think JB is about equal an in prime JJ - though very different. JJ was an unstoppable offensive player with inside and outside threat and JB will never be that good, but JJ was a hot and cold defensive player while JB never takes a game off...

Twenty years ago, JB would be a quality player who would commend no more than 50% of the max, but in today's hyper inflated salary market, JB is a max player who may turn out to be a LITTLE overpaid...
AB is a little overpaid (8 million instead of 6 million) and you see the kind of response he gets. JB is a 48% fg 2pt, 32% fg 3pt player and 79% ft player who if playing proper mins would be giving you on average for last 2 years of 16pts a game. Compare that to AB who is 46%/34%/78%/16pts and is a year+ years younger. Now JB is better on D and a little better handling the ball but imagine giving JB twice as much $ than AB for those #s. He will be well overpaid. Can a team afford that sure however fans will be turning on this guy 2 years or less after he signs his deal.

JB brings a few things to the table AB will NEVER bring.

1. He is 5 inches taller. AB is a very undersized SG, JB is an oversized one, so much so that he gets to guard the LBJ / KDs of the world. YOU CANNOT TEACH SIZE

2. JB is rugged - he is playing 40 MPG and has no injuries. AB has been out for about 50% of his career !!! You are paying double but getting more than double minutes !!!

You need to think about it in Production / Minute Played / Dollar and then you see JB is worth 3 times AB...
-The height is why he is a better defender which I mention him being.
-Minutes played has to go down for long term reasons.

Like I said I am looking at production he is not 3x better than AB. Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. He isn't worth the Max. It would be like paying Jeff Green 15 million a year. We would never hear the end of it.

Re: Max offer Jimmy Butler?
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2014, 09:03:17 AM »

Offline Joe Green

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Can't help but get a Joe Johnson and RudyG. feel from JB. JB is good and some one will give him the max but that contract will define expectations which he will not live up to.

I would pay JB twice what I would pay Rudy. Rudy is a one way basketball player, and a low efficiency one at that. I think JB is about equal an in prime JJ - though very different. JJ was an unstoppable offensive player with inside and outside threat and JB will never be that good, but JJ was a hot and cold defensive player while JB never takes a game off...

Twenty years ago, JB would be a quality player who would commend no more than 50% of the max, but in today's hyper inflated salary market, JB is a max player who may turn out to be a LITTLE overpaid...
AB is a little overpaid (8 million instead of 6 million) and you see the kind of response he gets. JB is a 48% fg 2pt, 32% fg 3pt player and 79% ft player who if playing proper mins would be giving you on average for last 2 years of 16pts a game. Compare that to AB who is 46%/34%/78%/16pts and is a year+ years younger. Now JB is better on D and a little better handling the ball but imagine giving JB twice as much $ than AB for those #s. He will be well overpaid. Can a team afford that sure however fans will be turning on this guy 2 years or less after he signs his deal.

JB brings a few things to the table AB will NEVER bring.

1. He is 5 inches taller. AB is a very undersized SG, JB is an oversized one, so much so that he gets to guard the LBJ / KDs of the world. YOU CANNOT TEACH SIZE

2. JB is rugged - he is playing 40 MPG and has no injuries. AB has been out for about 50% of his career !!! You are paying double but getting more than double minutes !!!

You need to think about it in Production / Minute Played / Dollar and then you see JB is worth 3 times AB...
-The height is why he is a better defender which I mention him being.
-Minutes played has to go down for long term reasons.

Like I said I am looking at production he is not 3x better than AB. Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. He isn't worth the Max. It would be like paying Jeff Green 15 million a year. We would never hear the end of it.

I did not say he is 3x better, I said he produces three times more. Don't understand your point about minutes played. JB is historically durable. AB is not. Please explain why you do not think my point is valid.

As for JG, he is going to get paid 15M or close to it. He has a $9M option and everyone assumes he is going to turn it down. I am not saying any of these guys is "worth" the money - just that this is what the NBA is paying nowadays...