Author Topic: Smart is not a point guard  (Read 28263 times)

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Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #75 on: December 28, 2014, 11:02:13 AM »

Offline cb8883

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Banks is not a good PG. People like to say that Banks 1 and Banks 2 are not comparable but just rememeber that places such as draft express compared the two. Banks 2.0 is at best a combo guard that is tough athletic and cannot shoot what so ever. The Celtics need to move on hopefully with Okafor on the roster and put whoever at PG.

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #76 on: December 28, 2014, 11:54:36 AM »

Offline TBreezy

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How long did it take Chauncey Billups to find himself? Four years I believe...

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #77 on: December 28, 2014, 12:58:27 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Smart seems more like Tony Allen than Marcus Banks. If he's Tony Allen 2.0, would people be unhappy? Probably unhappy, since he was a #6 overall pick, instead of a late first rounder like Allen. But what if Tony Allen 2.0 turns out to be about the 6th best thing one could have drafted this summer? Could be. Definitely unhappy, if people expect him to be the franchise PG going forward. Expectations are too high for him right now because the roster is relatively low on vessels for big hopes, too limited because Rondo was just traded so it's (somewhat desperately) assumed our PG of the future is already here and him. I doubt he will be the starting PG for any Celtics (or NBA) team making a deep run in the playoffs, ever. But he doesn't have to be that. The league is oversaturated with real PG's, so there's no need to settle on forcing Smart to be one. Let him become the defensive specialist combo guard he is destined to be, let him be Tony Allen. Except maybe a little better. Would that be bad? I don't think so.
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Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #78 on: December 28, 2014, 01:20:38 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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These kinds of threads are the ones that will take 4-5 years off my life...

1) The habit of evaluating young talent, not just in basketball, after such a small sample size drives me nuts...Good or bad. Remember Ron Jaworski calling Colin Kaepernick an MVP before last season? The attention span is SHOT in 2014...Someone doesn't produce in the first 1/4 of their first season, they're "done"...Comical.

2) The PG position is the toughest position in the league to learn/handle, especially at 20...The fact that he's stepping into Rondo's shoes makes it even more tough. The fact that he's played most of this season at less than 100% makes it even that much tougher. To judge him long term as a player/PG, after starting 4 or 5 games at the position, is ludicrous.

3) STOP comparing him to Rondo...He's not Rondo and he'll never be Rondo. Two completely different players in practically every way. Rondo is singular in that league regarding his skill set. The fact is, many PG's in the league now are complete opposites of Rondo...Rondo was a throw back - A "pure" handle and dish '1'. Smart is in the role of combo guard, which is how the position is evolving with bigger and better athletes on the floor.

4) Looking at any of Smart's stats right now & shooting percentages and using those numbers as a basis that the kid is a "bust" is a waste of time...It's basically making the statement that this kid CAN'T improve over the next 2-3 years, which is silly. How many players come into the league and don't wow you with their shooting, only to improve over the next few years? Too many to make a list here...

5) In Stevens' offense, you don't need to pound the ball on the deck for 20 seconds...You need to handle the ball well enough to be trusted and have good enough vision to take advantage of certain situations...Smart can and will do that. Again, we're not looking for Rondo II, so to speak.

6) You know what defines 98% of rookies? Inconsistency. There's a reason why one game they look unreal (Smart v. Wall in Washington weeks ago) and why they'll look slightly lost in the next. It's part of maturing as a professional. Did we expect Smart to be unstoppable night in and night out? When's the last time that happened with a rookie, let alone the #6 pick? And, how often does it happen?

Give. It. Time.

I believe Smart will be an All-Star caliber player...I also believe too many fans and even pundits want to grade guys right away and because of that, expectations become unrealistic.

You talk of unrealistic expectations but you project Smart to be an All-Star caliber player.  That seems quite unrealistic based on what Smart has shown so far.  Ainge has said Smart isn't a born PG.  I agree Smart needs time to develop but I don't think he should be force fit into the PG position.  The multiple attempts to force Bradley into the PG role didn't work out well.  Right now, I'd use Smart in ways that focus on his defensive strengths and I'd focus his training on improving his shooting and shot selection.  I'd like to see Smart make the All-NBA defensive team this year.   

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #79 on: December 28, 2014, 01:57:49 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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These kinds of threads are the ones that will take 4-5 years off my life...

1) The habit of evaluating young talent, not just in basketball, after such a small sample size drives me nuts...Good or bad. Remember Ron Jaworski calling Colin Kaepernick an MVP before last season? The attention span is SHOT in 2014...Someone doesn't produce in the first 1/4 of their first season, they're "done"...Comical.

2) The PG position is the toughest position in the league to learn/handle, especially at 20...The fact that he's stepping into Rondo's shoes makes it even more tough. The fact that he's played most of this season at less than 100% makes it even that much tougher. To judge him long term as a player/PG, after starting 4 or 5 games at the position, is ludicrous.

3) STOP comparing him to Rondo...He's not Rondo and he'll never be Rondo. Two completely different players in practically every way. Rondo is singular in that league regarding his skill set. The fact is, many PG's in the league now are complete opposites of Rondo...Rondo was a throw back - A "pure" handle and dish '1'. Smart is in the role of combo guard, which is how the position is evolving with bigger and better athletes on the floor.

4) Looking at any of Smart's stats right now & shooting percentages and using those numbers as a basis that the kid is a "bust" is a waste of time...It's basically making the statement that this kid CAN'T improve over the next 2-3 years, which is silly. How many players come into the league and don't wow you with their shooting, only to improve over the next few years? Too many to make a list here...

5) In Stevens' offense, you don't need to pound the ball on the deck for 20 seconds...You need to handle the ball well enough to be trusted and have good enough vision to take advantage of certain situations...Smart can and will do that. Again, we're not looking for Rondo II, so to speak.

6) You know what defines 98% of rookies? Inconsistency. There's a reason why one game they look unreal (Smart v. Wall in Washington weeks ago) and why they'll look slightly lost in the next. It's part of maturing as a professional. Did we expect Smart to be unstoppable night in and night out? When's the last time that happened with a rookie, let alone the #6 pick? And, how often does it happen?

Give. It. Time.

I believe Smart will be an All-Star caliber player...I also believe too many fans and even pundits want to grade guys right away and because of that, expectations become unrealistic.

You talk of unrealistic expectations but you project Smart to be an All-Star caliber player.  That seems quite unrealistic based on what Smart has shown so far.  Ainge has said Smart isn't a born PG.  I agree Smart needs time to develop but I don't think he should be force fit into the PG position.  The multiple attempts to force Bradley into the PG role didn't work out well.  Right now, I'd use Smart in ways that focus on his defensive strengths and I'd focus his training on improving his shooting and shot selection.  I'd like to see Smart make the All-NBA defensive team this year.
Yeah seriously.  People can't project in a negative way because it's way too early but it's fine to state he'll be an all star?  Never mind that there is little evidence to support that statement.

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #80 on: December 28, 2014, 02:38:23 PM »

Offline ctrey

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18.7   1.7-4.9   .351   0.9-3.2   .292   1.0-1.3   .750   2.2   2.2   0.1   1.0   2.1   1.4   5.4

First 15 games by both players. Rondo is on top, Smart is on the bottom. One factor to consider is that Rondo got to play 15 games in a row with no injury to cause any issues regarding getting into the flow of the NBA game. Basically they are putting up identical stats. Now of course they are playing for different coaches and the style of play in the NBA has changed in eight years but they are very similar. Let's take a breath. OK?

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #81 on: December 28, 2014, 02:47:04 PM »

Offline ctrey

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Here is another thought: In his first year, Jimmy Butler averaged 2.6 points a game. He barely played and was 23 by the end of the season. By the logic presented here by many posters we should have chucked him in the bin. How would have that worked out? Smart is 20, learning a new offense and I suspect has been given a very short leash. He never drives which seems very suspicious to me considering he constantly attacked in College. I suspect their is an awful lot of on the job training going on.

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #82 on: December 28, 2014, 02:53:12 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Smart seems more like Tony Allen than Marcus Banks. If he's Tony Allen 2.0, would people be unhappy? Probably unhappy, since he was a #6 overall pick, instead of a late first rounder like Allen. But what if Tony Allen 2.0 turns out to be about the 6th best thing one could have drafted this summer? Could be. Definitely unhappy, if people expect him to be the franchise PG going forward. Expectations are too high for him right now because the roster is relatively low on vessels for big hopes, too limited because Rondo was just traded so it's (somewhat desperately) assumed our PG of the future is already here and him. I doubt he will be the starting PG for any Celtics (or NBA) team making a deep run in the playoffs, ever. But he doesn't have to be that. The league is oversaturated with real PG's, so there's no need to settle on forcing Smart to be one. Let him become the defensive specialist combo guard he is destined to be, let him be Tony Allen. Except maybe a little better. Would that be bad? I don't think so.

I think this is close to the truth.

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #83 on: December 28, 2014, 03:27:28 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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19.0   1.7-4.4   .377   0.0-0.4   .000   1.5-2.5   .600   3.2   2.8   0.1   0.9   2.1   1.6   4.8

18.7   1.7-4.9   .351   0.9-3.2   .292   1.0-1.3   .750   2.2   2.2   0.1   1.0   2.1   1.4   5.4

First 15 games by both players. Rondo is on top, Smart is on the bottom. One factor to consider is that Rondo got to play 15 games in a row with no injury to cause any issues regarding getting into the flow of the NBA game. Basically they are putting up identical stats. Now of course they are playing for different coaches and the style of play in the NBA has changed in eight years but they are very similar. Let's take a breath. OK?
Can we stop it with the numbers already.  These comparisons are meaningless.  For once, I would like to see an argument based on what they see in smart.  Seems like the arguments for smart are:

1. Too early
2. He's learning
3. I think or feel
4. He might
5. He's working
6. Hoping and praying

I mean, except for his defense, these are not exactly ringing endorsements about a guy.

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #84 on: December 28, 2014, 03:41:09 PM »

Offline Eja117

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I think Smart is a point guard long term, but he doesn't know how to run the position yet.
agreed. Or possibly an off guard like D Wade or something

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #85 on: December 28, 2014, 03:42:13 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Given Smart hasn't shown the ability to be an outside shooter in either college or the pros, he really isn't a SG. He's gotta be a PG otherwise, his future in the NBA is that of defensive oriented combo guard off the bench, which isn't what you want as a #6 pick in a supposed super deep draft.

He needs to come off the bench and develop slowly but he has to do it at PG. He just isn't a SG.
Fair points all

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #86 on: December 28, 2014, 03:45:48 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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19.0   1.7-4.4   .377   0.0-0.4   .000   1.5-2.5   .600   3.2   2.8   0.1   0.9   2.1   1.6   4.8

18.7   1.7-4.9   .351   0.9-3.2   .292   1.0-1.3   .750   2.2   2.2   0.1   1.0   2.1   1.4   5.4

First 15 games by both players. Rondo is on top, Smart is on the bottom. One factor to consider is that Rondo got to play 15 games in a row with no injury to cause any issues regarding getting into the flow of the NBA game. Basically they are putting up identical stats. Now of course they are playing for different coaches and the style of play in the NBA has changed in eight years but they are very similar. Let's take a breath. OK?
Can we stop it with the numbers already.  These comparisons are meaningless.  For once, I would like to see an argument based on what they see in smart.  Seems like the arguments for smart are:

1. Too early
2. He's learning
3. I think or feel
4. He might
5. He's working
6. Hoping and praying

I mean, except for his defense, these are not exactly ringing endorsements about a guy.

Then you might as well codemn the whole class, considering that they're not living up to expectations. What do you think Smart is: Marcus Banks? You have to be patient, these are young kids who need to grow.

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #87 on: December 28, 2014, 03:47:29 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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Smart is a PG or not a starter on any team in the NBA ever....

He is not a "prototypical" PG (ala CP3), but he has the tools to be a playmaker. Was checking out Russel Westbrook's Rookie stats (much more explosive player, but also a "tweener" who dominates his opponents physically).

13 ppg, 39% FG / 27% 3Pt / 5 Rebs / 5 Ast on 32 minutes/ not that far off from Smart.

Before you chew me out - I am not saying Smart will be RW, just that a lot of great PG take a year or two to learn the position...
Smart has a great work ethic. He has had some really good games and some bad. He will develop in time. He should get the minutes without a fear of being pulled for the rest of the year. If Playing him is keeping others from looking good to trade then let him come of the bench but give him some minutes and his role. But he needs not to look over his shoulder and run some plays for him
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Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #88 on: December 28, 2014, 03:53:30 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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19.0   1.7-4.4   .377   0.0-0.4   .000   1.5-2.5   .600   3.2   2.8   0.1   0.9   2.1   1.6   4.8

18.7   1.7-4.9   .351   0.9-3.2   .292   1.0-1.3   .750   2.2   2.2   0.1   1.0   2.1   1.4   5.4

First 15 games by both players. Rondo is on top, Smart is on the bottom. One factor to consider is that Rondo got to play 15 games in a row with no injury to cause any issues regarding getting into the flow of the NBA game. Basically they are putting up identical stats. Now of course they are playing for different coaches and the style of play in the NBA has changed in eight years but they are very similar. Let's take a breath. OK?
Can we stop it with the numbers already.  These comparisons are meaningless.  For once, I would like to see an argument based on what they see in smart.  Seems like the arguments for smart are:

1. Too early
2. He's learning
3. I think or feel
4. He might
5. He's working
6. Hoping and praying

I mean, except for his defense, these are not exactly ringing endorsements about a guy.

I don't think Smart is a true PG so comparing him to Rondo is a losing proposition.  I think the better comparison is against Bradley.  They're both good defenders.  Bradley's advantages are his shooting and experience.  Smart is a better rebounder, passer and ball handler and his size allows him to guard bigger players than Bradley can.  With a year of experience and focus on improving his shooting, Smart could be a solid starting SG. 

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #89 on: December 28, 2014, 04:02:50 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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19.0   1.7-4.4   .377   0.0-0.4   .000   1.5-2.5   .600   3.2   2.8   0.1   0.9   2.1   1.6   4.8

18.7   1.7-4.9   .351   0.9-3.2   .292   1.0-1.3   .750   2.2   2.2   0.1   1.0   2.1   1.4   5.4

First 15 games by both players. Rondo is on top, Smart is on the bottom. One factor to consider is that Rondo got to play 15 games in a row with no injury to cause any issues regarding getting into the flow of the NBA game. Basically they are putting up identical stats. Now of course they are playing for different coaches and the style of play in the NBA has changed in eight years but they are very similar. Let's take a breath. OK?
Can we stop it with the numbers already.  These comparisons are meaningless.  For once, I would like to see an argument based on what they see in smart.  Seems like the arguments for smart are:

1. Too early
2. He's learning
3. I think or feel
4. He might
5. He's working
6. Hoping and praying

I mean, except for his defense, these are not exactly ringing endorsements about a guy.

Then you might as well codemn the whole class, considering that they're not living up to expectations. What do you think Smart is: Marcus Banks? You have to be patient, these are young kids who need to grow.
Obviously I am not being clear.  It has less to do with performance and numbers and more to do with what you see in terms of ability and skill.  I can't speak about other rookies as I do not see them regularly.  And you already know what I feel about smarts skills.