Author Topic: Smart is not a point guard  (Read 28266 times)

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Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2014, 10:45:59 PM »

Offline vinnie

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The guy should start every game. The team stinks and Smart playing a horrible point guard doesn't make a difference. This is a lottery bound team and they should be playing Smart as many minutes at the point as they can to see whether he figures it out. That's why they traded Rondo, not to play Jameer Nelson or Evan Turner at the point. I have my doubts about the guy as a point guard, but we won't have a decent idea until the end of the year.

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2014, 10:53:51 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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At this time last year Smart started for Oklahoma State against Robert Morris. He's 20 years old and he does not know how to run an NBA offense yet.

He's started 5 games and it is an absolute federal case that he hasn't carried this group of outstanding NBA starting talent to victory after victory.

They drafted him as a point guard because that's what ownership and management said when they drafted him.

Is he going to develop into a good NBA point guard? My future machine is in the blink tonight, I'll try again in April....2016.

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2014, 10:55:23 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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My memory is extremely clear about rondo in his rookie season.  Extremely clear.  Rondo showed huge flashes from day 1 of what he would eventually become.  His only weakness was shooting. 

Smart on the other hand looks like a bust.  I get a COMPLETELY different feeling about him.  And yes, the Marcus banks comparisons are about right.  The guy isn't a pg and he isn't a shooting guard.  And I'm sorry, it's okay to come in to the nba and refine your game.  But when we're talking about learning skills that a guy doesn't have in the nba, it just is not happening.

I know people don't want to hear.  And I hear over and over again how it's too early to make proclamations.  But I call BS on that.  I can make a proclamation that James young will never be a pg this soon as well.  Is it too early to do that?  Of course not.

So in smart, we have a guy that does one thing well.  Play defense.  He's average or below average in every other part of his game, whether we're talking pg or sg.  He doesn't drive to the basket because he can't do it consistently.  And we saw in summer league that he has trouble finishing.  In summer league!

So ask me how I really feel about smart.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 11:09:47 PM by droopdog7 »

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2014, 11:04:16 PM »

Offline RJ87

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lol how many games as he played let alone started at PG?

This is what 'development' is all about. He's a smart, tough kid and he'll work it out.
Brad Stevens coaching style is about slow development. He's restricting the shots he wants Smart to take- limiting his drives to the hole for now.

Eventually once Smart understands the offense and the fundamentals of this half-motion offense, he'll be able to manipulate it and add his own flair of offense when he sees fit ala Tony Parker (attack when you see an opening, keep the ball moving until you find an opening, and when a double team comes find your shooters).

We've barely seen him attempt to get to the hole which is a huge strength of his and this will come at a later point.

Rookie season 101:
-Learn offense
-improve 3 point shot
-improve passing

Forget about everything else for now.

Stay patient my fellow green fiends.

A big aspect of Tony Parker's game is his quickness. Smart doesn't have that.

Marcus had physical strength over his college counterparts - he could just bully his way to the rim
 At the NBA level, that's pretty much neutralized.
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Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2014, 11:06:30 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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My memory is extremely clear about rondo in his rookie season.  Extremely clear.  Rondo showed huge flashes from day 1 of what he would eventually become.  His only weakness was shooting. 

Smart on the other hand looks like a bust.  I get a COMPLETELY different feeling about him.  And yes, the Marcus banks comparisons are about right.  The guy isn't a pg and he isn't a shooting guard.  And I'm sorry, it's okay to come in to the nba and refine your game.  But when we're talking about learning skills that a guy doesn't have in the nba, it just is not happening.

I know people don't want to hear.  And I hear over and over again how it's too early to make proclamations.  But I call BS on that.  I can make a proclamation that James young will never be a pg this soon as well.  Is it too early to do that?  Of course not.

So in smart, we have a guy that does one thing well.  Play defense.  He's average or below average in every other part of his game, whether we're talking pg or sg.  He doesn't drive to the basket because he can't do it consistently.  And we saw in summer league that he has trouble finishing.  In summer league!

So ask me how I really feel about smart.

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2014, 11:09:07 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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Chauncey Billups was pretty bad early on. I think i'll wait n' see what happens 1st.

and I disagree about Smart's future as a SG. I don't think he could be a slasher, scorer or shooter from that position. we've seen him have the ability to create for other teammates though...sounds like a PG to me.

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2014, 11:09:07 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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21mpg
35% FG
26% 3PT
81% FT
7.9 ppg
3.5 apg
1.6 rpg
2.3 tpg
1.3 spg

vs.

19 mpg
34% FG
29% 3PT
78% FT
5.6 ppg
2.2 apg
2.2 rpg
1.2 tpg
1.1 spg

Nobody took the bait, so...the bottom numbers are Smart's from his first 14 games in the NBA.

Top numbers are Chauncey Billups' from his first 15 games in the NBA.

Should we have given up on Billups too?

Oh, wait....

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2014, 11:09:56 PM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

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My memory is extremely clear about rondo in his rookie season.  Extremely clear.  Rondo showed huge flashes from day 1 of what he would eventually become.  His only weakness was shooting. 

Smart on the other hand looks like a bust.  I get a COMPLETELY different feeling about him.  And yes, the Marcus banks comparisons are about right.  The guy isn't a pg and he isn't a shooting guard.  And I'm sorry, it's okay to come in to the nba and refine your game.  But when we're talking about learning skills that a guy doesn't have in the nba, it just is not happening.

I know people don't want to hear.  And I hear over and over again how it's too early to make proclamations.  But I call BS on that.  I can't make a proclamation that James young will never be a pg this soon as well.  Is it too early to do that?  Of course not.

So in smart, we have a guy that does one thing well.  Play defense.  He's average or below average in every other part of his game, whether we're talking pg or sg.  He doesn't drive to the basket because he can't do it consistently.  And we saw in summer league that he has trouble finishing.  In summer league!

So ask me how I really feel about smart.

I remember Rondo's rookie season vividly as well, he was as you say... a very inconsistent shooter, prone to a spectacular pass, and energetic on D. It was clear he would be a solid NBA player at worst, and the thought of pairing him with the Big 3 and Perk, in my mind at least, seemed like it wasn't a big jump.

Smart is built entirely differently, physically and as a basketball player. He's not quite as good a rebounder, probably a better defender, and drives with the intention of scoring (when he does) more than Rondo did. He's not nearly as good at penetrating off the dribble as Rondo was and is.

The one reason we should "wait and see" on Smart is because of his injuries and his new position as a PG. Rondo had been a floor general since his days at Oak Hill, and played a similar role while in Kentucky. Smart has been asked to be an alpha dog, a jack of all trades, and when you are physically stronger than the vast majority of your opponents often that leads to underdeveloped skills in a certain regard.

Not to mention, and I think this point holds just as strong, Smart has been injured on two separate occasions. He looks different than he did even at the beginning of the year and is not in great shape. Let's give him 15 more games before casting judgment.

You are right to say he's not going to be the classic PG Rondo was/is, but it's becoming clear that's not necessarily conducive to creating a successful team in today's NBA.

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2014, 11:14:17 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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21mpg
35% FG
26% 3PT
81% FT
7.9 ppg
3.5 apg
1.6 rpg
2.3 tpg
1.3 spg

vs.

19 mpg
34% FG
29% 3PT
78% FT
5.6 ppg
2.2 apg
2.2 rpg
1.2 tpg
1.1 spg

Nobody took the bait, so...the bottom numbers are Smart's from his first 14 games in the NBA.

Top numbers are Chauncey Billups' from his first 15 games in the NBA.

Should we have given up on Billups too?

Oh, wait....
Because numbers over 14 games when playing short minutes are almost meaningless.  You gotta actually see with your eyes to truly evaluate a guy.  While billups may have exceeded early expectations, he came into the league with some plus skills.  He was a deadeye shooter and he could take it to the basket.  Smart is neither of those things. 

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2014, 11:16:08 PM »

Offline Smartacus

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I've heard people say Smart should be developed to replace Bradley, not Rondo.

Maybe this holds some merit.

Poignant. From a stylistic perspective it makes a lot more sense, the question is do you even want to replace Rondo?

*Note* Only mean from a team composition stance (More ball movement less reliance on a PG) not a value of player stance (personally think Rondo's great).

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2014, 11:52:06 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Marcus Smart needs a lot of figuring out to do. But as Who and another poster (sorry if I cant name you, I forgot who you are but I'm crediting you) said, its worrisome that Smart cant beat his man off the dribble. He's going to need to drastically improve his shooting if he can't do this for him to be a starting level PG, nay, a starting level Guard in this league.

I'm holding on hope because he's very competitive and his work ethic is extremely high. I think he will work his way to being respectable to being good. But it is worrisome that he doesnt seem to have the speed and quickness in the NBA level.


I've heard people say Smart should be developed to replace Bradley, not Rondo.

Maybe this holds some merit.

Smart should replace Bradley now.

Signing Bradley to a big contract was a huge mistake.

Says the guy who keeps reiterating that Danny Ainge is a genius.
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Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2014, 11:54:39 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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He's too undersized to be a SG. Most 2s are going to be bigger than 6'4" and, at this level (and point in time), as strong as he is. Also, does he look like he has a 6'9" wingspan? His arms look KO-ish to me on TV... can't believe that. Promising, though, if true.

Good news: He has the potential to guard PGs, especially if he plays very physically with them and develops a better understanding of bball at the NBA level. He can also probably bully his way to the basket against PGs, but...

Bad news: We don't know that yet. In the PnR, he continually picks up his dribble after the screen. He needs to learn to keep his dribble and be more aggressive to the basket and/or wait until his next option becomes available. He also lacks aggression, rarely drives looking to finish. I think both of these issues may be related to his lack of experience/confidence, coupled with early high expectations for a 20 yr old. Agree with earlier poster that he has some skills development in order, as well. Being a beast at the collegiate (and HS) level prob allowed him to rely on his athleticism too much.
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Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2014, 11:59:41 PM »

Offline ctrey

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My memory is extremely clear about rondo in his rookie season.  Extremely clear.  Rondo showed huge flashes from day 1 of what he would eventually become.  His only weakness was shooting. 

Smart on the other hand looks like a bust.  I get a COMPLETELY different feeling about him.  And yes, the Marcus banks comparisons are about right.  The guy isn't a pg and he isn't a shooting guard.  And I'm sorry, it's okay to come in to the nba and refine your game.  But when we're talking about learning skills that a guy doesn't have in the nba, it just is not happening.

I know people don't want to hear.  And I hear over and over again how it's too early to make proclamations.  But I call BS on that.  I can't make a proclamation that James young will never be a pg this soon as well.  Is it too early to do that?  Of course not.

So in smart, we have a guy that does one thing well.  Play defense.  He's average or below average in every other part of his game, whether we're talking pg or sg.  He doesn't drive to the basket because he can't do it consistently.  And we saw in summer league that he has trouble finishing.  In summer league!

So ask me how I really feel about smart.

I remember Rondo's rookie season vividly as well, he was as you say... a very inconsistent shooter, prone to a spectacular pass, and energetic on D. It was clear he would be a solid NBA player at worst, and the thought of pairing him with the Big 3 and Perk, in my mind at least, seemed like it wasn't a big jump.

Smart is built entirely differently, physically and as a basketball player. He's not quite as good a rebounder, probably a better defender, and drives with the intention of scoring (when he does) more than Rondo did. He's not nearly as good at penetrating off the dribble as Rondo was and is.

The one reason we should "wait and see" on Smart is because of his injuries and his new position as a PG. Rondo had been a floor general since his days at Oak Hill, and played a similar role while in Kentucky. Smart has been asked to be an alpha dog, a jack of all trades, and when you are physically stronger than the vast majority of your opponents often that leads to underdeveloped skills in a certain regard.

Not to mention, and I think this point holds just as strong, Smart has been injured on two separate occasions. He looks different than he did even at the beginning of the year and is not in great shape. Let's give him 15 more games before casting judgment.

You are right to say he's not going to be the classic PG Rondo was/is, but it's becoming clear that's not necessarily conducive to creating a successful team in today's NBA.

Rondo showed flashes as a rookie. So has Smart. Rondo had the advantage of having a hall of famer in his prime playing with him in Pierce. Smart has had no such player. To give up on Smart this fast is foolish. But judging by the original post I should expect nothing less.

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2014, 12:03:36 AM »

Offline GreenGoggles

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I don't see how people can be judging Smart so harshly giving his injuries early on, lack of consistent playing time and now Brad Stevens ridiculous rotations.  Player development isn't always or often pretty, Parker and Wiggins both had slow starts but really turned it on after a few weeks.

To pull Smart after one and a half minutes of playing time at the beginning of the third was one of the worst coaching decisions I've seen in awhile. Hes just getting back, mistakes will happen and I think Stevens greatly overreacted.

If we expect consistent improvement out of Smart then he needs to be given consistent playing time without fear of being pulled if me makes one mistake. I think hes playing scared because he is scared, scared that if he makes one error he will be sitting on the bench until the final 2 minutes while Pressey and Nelson are out there making just as many mistakes.

Re: Smart is not a point guard
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2014, 12:18:56 AM »

Offline shrinkage36

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I may agree that Smart is a two guard. He plays better off the ball. He's also able to bring the ball up if necessary, but I agree that they are playing him out of position. His ball-handling will get better over the years, his shot will get better, etc. Plenty of 2 guards are top players in this league. So it's not knock on him if this is his long term position.