Mannix on Lopez; Rondo trade was also discussed with Nets

[hpantazo]

I'm a big fan of Lopez' offensive game, but he's got long term injury concerns and plays no defense. Not worth the money he would tie up. We need our next center to be a defensive anchor, not a defensive sieve.

[TheFlex]

I'll never understand Danny's fascination with flawed big men. Whether it be Raef LaFrentz, Patrick O'Bryant, Mikki Moore, Fab Melo...

   It's awfully hard to make the claim that Danny was "fascinated" byt O'Bryant, Moore or Melo.

Lol, you didn't know? DA did everything he could to get POB. That vet min contract really stretched Wyc and Steve's pockets. DA had to beg them to get it done.

He did pass on Chris Andersen for him, though.

Hindsight is 20/20. Andersen was out of the league in '06-07 and played five games in '07-08. We signed POB in the summer of '08. It was hardly an obvious decision and one that's pretty unfair to begrudge Ainge for incorrectly making.

Danny's job is to make the right decision.  He missed.

POB could never play.  Andersen could.  That wasn't hindsight, it was a gamble on a bum that didn't work out.  It's not so much different than Melo vs. PJ3.

Danny has won some, and lost some. I tend not to gloss over his mistakes.

You're comparing Andersen vs. POB in '07-08 to Melo vs. PJ3 in present day?

Um... I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.

In both cases, Danny took the "athletic" stiff over the guy with more proven production, in the name of upside.  It didn't work out either time.

How can you say someone who had played six games in two years is proven?

Andersen had a proven NBA track record -- especially compared to POB -- and PJ3 had a proven collegiate record, especially compared to Fab.

I'm not sure why this analogy is flying over your head, but I'm not sure it matters.  You're okay with overlooking some of Danny's mistakes as being only due to 20/20 hindsight, and I disagree with that.  Tons of Celtics fans -- I'd say the clear majority in both cases -- disagreed with the decisions at the time.  Danny shouldn't be run out of town for making those mistakes, but they weren't great decisions, either at the time or in hindsight.

Haha, probably because I thought you were referring to Carmelo, not Fab.

Obviously Danny made a mistake, I'm not arguing that, I just object to plainly calling Andersen a proven player without mentioning that he had essentially been out of the league for two years. He was far more of a gamble that you portray him to have been, and that's why I don't think it was an egregious mistake made by Ainge.

[TheFlex]

I'll never understand Danny's fascination with flawed big men. Whether it be Raef LaFrentz, Patrick O'Bryant, Mikki Moore, Fab Melo...

   It's awfully hard to make the claim that Danny was "fascinated" byt O'Bryant, Moore or Melo.

Lol, you didn't know? DA did everything he could to get POB. That vet min contract really stretched Wyc and Steve's pockets. DA had to beg them to get it done.

He did pass on Chris Andersen for him, though.

Hindsight is 20/20. Andersen was out of the league in '06-07 and played five games in '07-08. We signed POB in the summer of '08. It was hardly an obvious decision and one that's pretty unfair to begrudge Ainge for incorrectly making.

Danny's job is to make the right decision.  He missed.

POB could never play.  Andersen could.  That wasn't hindsight, it was a gamble on a bum that didn't work out.  It's not so much different than Melo vs. PJ3.

Danny has won some, and lost some. I tend not to gloss over his mistakes.

You're comparing Andersen vs. POB in '07-08 to Melo vs. PJ3 in present day?

Um... I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.

In both cases, Danny took the "athletic" stiff over the guy with more proven production, in the name of upside.  It didn't work out either time.

How can you say someone who had played six games in two years is proven?

I don't remember the specifics as well as you do but I do remember being pretty excited about possibly getting the birdman.

To be honest I was too, but as I said above I just disagree with characterizing POB vs. Andersen as potential vs. safe choice. We knew Andersen had the talent to play in the pros, but it was far from a guarantee that he could do away with the off court baggage.

[KGs Knee]

I'll never understand Danny's fascination with flawed big men. Whether it be Raef LaFrentz, Patrick O'Bryant, Mikki Moore, Fab Melo...

   It's awfully hard to make the claim that Danny was "fascinated" byt O'Bryant, Moore or Melo.

Lol, you didn't know? DA did everything he could to get POB. That vet min contract really stretched Wyc and Steve's pockets. DA had to beg them to get it done.

He did pass on Chris Andersen for him, though.

Hindsight is 20/20. Andersen was out of the league in '06-07 and played five games in '07-08. We signed POB in the summer of '08. It was hardly an obvious decision and one that's pretty unfair to begrudge Ainge for incorrectly making.

Danny's job is to make the right decision.  He missed.

POB could never play.  Andersen could.  That wasn't hindsight, it was a gamble on a bum that didn't work out.  It's not so much different than Melo vs. PJ3.

Danny has won some, and lost some. I tend not to gloss over his mistakes.

You're comparing Andersen vs. POB in '07-08 to Melo vs. PJ3 in present day?

Um... I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.

In both cases, Danny took the "athletic" stiff over the guy with more proven production, in the name of upside.  It didn't work out either time.

How can you say someone who had played six games in two years is proven?

Andersen had a proven NBA track record -- especially compared to POB -- and PJ3 had a proven collegiate record, especially compared to Fab.

I'm not sure why this analogy is flying over your head, but I'm not sure it matters.  You're okay with overlooking some of Danny's mistakes as being only due to 20/20 hindsight, and I disagree with that.  Tons of Celtics fans -- I'd say the clear majority in both cases -- disagreed with the decisions at the time.  Danny shouldn't be run out of town for making those mistakes, but they weren't great decisions, either at the time or in hindsight.

Haha, probably because I thought you were referring to Carmelo, not Fab.

Obviously Danny made a mistake, I'm not arguing that, I just object to plainly calling Andersen a proven player without mentioning that he had essentially been out of the league for two years. He was far more of a gamble that you portray him to have been, and that's why I don't think it was an egregious mistake made by Ainge.

I gotta disagree here.

Andersen was out of the league due to some trumped up charges, that eventually proved to be just that. Anyone who was actually paying attention knew this. The thing is, the media loves 'stories' like his and pretty much drug his name through the mud. As such, no team would touch him until it became evident the charges were going to be dropped, and the truth finally came out (i.e. The media was forced to give up the ghost). But once it became evident the charges were going to be dropped, there really was no reason not to sign him, it was a foolish move at the time, hindsight is not needed.

[LarBrd33]

Once upon a time I had high hopes for Brook Lopez. Now a days, if I were GM, you wouldn't be able to pay me to have in on the roster.

Too injured, too soft. Quite possibly one of the worst rebounding 7 footers in the league along with Bargnani. Terrible defender as well. Overall negative impact.

To be more succinct, I would rather have received the bag of rocks we got from Dallas than Lopez. He sucks that much.

Lopez is arguably the best low-post scorer in the game.   He's a lock to give you 20 a night.  He's not much of a rebounder... he gets a couple blocks a night, but I don't know if he's a great rim protector.   Getting Lopez would have been an upgrade for sure.  He's a 26 year old all-star center.  The injuries are a concern and the contract is fat. 

Of course, it's really hard to sell yourself on taking the lopez risk when you have a career backup like Zeller putting up such great numbers right now.

How is a guy who has averaged 20pts a game in his career twice, a lock to give you 20 a night?  He has scored at least 20 pts in a whopping five games this year.   By that standard Olynyk is a lock to get you 20 a night. 

Lopez is a horrible rebounder who has very low lateral foot speed.  He can't guard anyone who can step out and hit jumpers and dribble in the least.  I'd rather have an empty roster spot than Lopez and I'd definitely rather have that money available for someone else.

He's been a 19/20 point scorer since his second year in the league. 

You guys realize he's only had two games since coming back from injury, right?  Brooklyn is working him back into the lineup.   Lopez isn't my favorite player, but he's an outstanding low-post scorer.  I don't know if he can be a rim protector, though... so I don't care to trade for him.

[LarBrd33]

Once upon a time I had high hopes for Brook Lopez. Now a days, if I were GM, you wouldn't be able to pay me to have in on the roster.

Too injured, too soft. Quite possibly one of the worst rebounding 7 footers in the league along with Bargnani. Terrible defender as well. Overall negative impact.

To be more succinct, I would rather have received the bag of rocks we got from Dallas than Lopez. He sucks that much.

Lopez is arguably the best low-post scorer in the game.   He's a lock to give you 20 a night.  He's not much of a rebounder... he gets a couple blocks a night, but I don't know if he's a great rim protector.   Getting Lopez would have been an upgrade for sure.  He's a 26 year old all-star center.  The injuries are a concern and the contract is fat. 

Of course, it's really hard to sell yourself on taking the lopez risk when you have a career backup like Zeller putting up such great numbers right now.

So just to be clear...

Rondo= washed up scrub

Lopez= best low post scorer in the league, and all-star


I guess I won't say anything further. My mother always taught me, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Rondo isn't a washed up scrub... he's an overrated player who doesn't make much of an impact in most systems.  He still has plenty of game left in him.

Lopez is arguably the best low post scorer in the league.  Yes. 

[TheFlex]

I'll never understand Danny's fascination with flawed big men. Whether it be Raef LaFrentz, Patrick O'Bryant, Mikki Moore, Fab Melo...

   It's awfully hard to make the claim that Danny was "fascinated" byt O'Bryant, Moore or Melo.

Lol, you didn't know? DA did everything he could to get POB. That vet min contract really stretched Wyc and Steve's pockets. DA had to beg them to get it done.

He did pass on Chris Andersen for him, though.

Hindsight is 20/20. Andersen was out of the league in '06-07 and played five games in '07-08. We signed POB in the summer of '08. It was hardly an obvious decision and one that's pretty unfair to begrudge Ainge for incorrectly making.

Danny's job is to make the right decision.  He missed.

POB could never play.  Andersen could.  That wasn't hindsight, it was a gamble on a bum that didn't work out.  It's not so much different than Melo vs. PJ3.

Danny has won some, and lost some. I tend not to gloss over his mistakes.

You're comparing Andersen vs. POB in '07-08 to Melo vs. PJ3 in present day?

Um... I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.

In both cases, Danny took the "athletic" stiff over the guy with more proven production, in the name of upside.  It didn't work out either time.

How can you say someone who had played six games in two years is proven?

Andersen had a proven NBA track record -- especially compared to POB -- and PJ3 had a proven collegiate record, especially compared to Fab.

I'm not sure why this analogy is flying over your head, but I'm not sure it matters.  You're okay with overlooking some of Danny's mistakes as being only due to 20/20 hindsight, and I disagree with that.  Tons of Celtics fans -- I'd say the clear majority in both cases -- disagreed with the decisions at the time.  Danny shouldn't be run out of town for making those mistakes, but they weren't great decisions, either at the time or in hindsight.

Haha, probably because I thought you were referring to Carmelo, not Fab.

Obviously Danny made a mistake, I'm not arguing that, I just object to plainly calling Andersen a proven player without mentioning that he had essentially been out of the league for two years. He was far more of a gamble that you portray him to have been, and that's why I don't think it was an egregious mistake made by Ainge.

I gotta disagree here.

Andersen was out of the league due to some trumped up charges, that eventually proved to be just that. Anyone who was actually paying attention knew this. The thing is, the media loves 'stories' like his and pretty much drug his name through the mud. As such, no team would touch him until it became evident the charges were going to be dropped, and the truth finally came out (i.e. The media was forced to give up the ghost). But once it became evident the charges were going to be dropped, there really was no reason not to sign him, it was a foolish move at the time, hindsight is not needed.

I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) you're talking about the child ****ography scandal. That was in 2012. In 2006 he was found to be using a banned substance and it was known that he had personal struggles with drug addiction. That's what I'm referring to. POB was signed in 2008, the offseason after Andersen had played just six games in 2007-08 and zero games the year before that.

[Rondo9]

Once upon a time I had high hopes for Brook Lopez. Now a days, if I were GM, you wouldn't be able to pay me to have in on the roster.

Too injured, too soft. Quite possibly one of the worst rebounding 7 footers in the league along with Bargnani. Terrible defender as well. Overall negative impact.

To be more succinct, I would rather have received the bag of rocks we got from Dallas than Lopez. He sucks that much.

Lopez is arguably the best low-post scorer in the game.   He's a lock to give you 20 a night.  He's not much of a rebounder... he gets a couple blocks a night, but I don't know if he's a great rim protector.   Getting Lopez would have been an upgrade for sure.  He's a 26 year old all-star center.  The injuries are a concern and the contract is fat. 

Of course, it's really hard to sell yourself on taking the lopez risk when you have a career backup like Zeller putting up such great numbers right now.

So just to be clear...

Rondo= washed up scrub

Lopez= best low post scorer in the league, and all-star


I guess I won't say anything further. My mother always taught me, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Rondo isn't a washed up scrub... he's an overrated player who doesn't make much of an impact in most systems.  He still has plenty of game left in him.

Lopez is arguably the best low post scorer in the league.  Yes.

Overrated by whom exactly?

[LarBrd33]

Once upon a time I had high hopes for Brook Lopez. Now a days, if I were GM, you wouldn't be able to pay me to have in on the roster.

Too injured, too soft. Quite possibly one of the worst rebounding 7 footers in the league along with Bargnani. Terrible defender as well. Overall negative impact.

To be more succinct, I would rather have received the bag of rocks we got from Dallas than Lopez. He sucks that much.

Lopez is arguably the best low-post scorer in the game.   He's a lock to give you 20 a night.  He's not much of a rebounder... he gets a couple blocks a night, but I don't know if he's a great rim protector.   Getting Lopez would have been an upgrade for sure.  He's a 26 year old all-star center.  The injuries are a concern and the contract is fat. 

Of course, it's really hard to sell yourself on taking the lopez risk when you have a career backup like Zeller putting up such great numbers right now.

So just to be clear...

Rondo= washed up scrub

Lopez= best low post scorer in the league, and all-star


I guess I won't say anything further. My mother always taught me, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Rondo isn't a washed up scrub... he's an overrated player who doesn't make much of an impact in most systems.  He still has plenty of game left in him.

Lopez is arguably the best low post scorer in the league.  Yes.

Overrated by whom exactly?

Dallas... and only Dallas, apparently.

[Rondo9]

Once upon a time I had high hopes for Brook Lopez. Now a days, if I were GM, you wouldn't be able to pay me to have in on the roster.

Too injured, too soft. Quite possibly one of the worst rebounding 7 footers in the league along with Bargnani. Terrible defender as well. Overall negative impact.

To be more succinct, I would rather have received the bag of rocks we got from Dallas than Lopez. He sucks that much.

Lopez is arguably the best low-post scorer in the game.   He's a lock to give you 20 a night.  He's not much of a rebounder... he gets a couple blocks a night, but I don't know if he's a great rim protector.   Getting Lopez would have been an upgrade for sure.  He's a 26 year old all-star center.  The injuries are a concern and the contract is fat. 

Of course, it's really hard to sell yourself on taking the lopez risk when you have a career backup like Zeller putting up such great numbers right now.

So just to be clear...

Rondo= washed up scrub

Lopez= best low post scorer in the league, and all-star


I guess I won't say anything further. My mother always taught me, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Rondo isn't a washed up scrub... he's an overrated player who doesn't make much of an impact in most systems.  He still has plenty of game left in him.

Lopez is arguably the best low post scorer in the league.  Yes.

Overrated by whom exactly?

Dallas... and only Dallas, apparently.

Than you might as well put other teams who "overrated" Rondo

[LarBrd33]

Once upon a time I had high hopes for Brook Lopez. Now a days, if I were GM, you wouldn't be able to pay me to have in on the roster.

Too injured, too soft. Quite possibly one of the worst rebounding 7 footers in the league along with Bargnani. Terrible defender as well. Overall negative impact.

To be more succinct, I would rather have received the bag of rocks we got from Dallas than Lopez. He sucks that much.

Lopez is arguably the best low-post scorer in the game.   He's a lock to give you 20 a night.  He's not much of a rebounder... he gets a couple blocks a night, but I don't know if he's a great rim protector.   Getting Lopez would have been an upgrade for sure.  He's a 26 year old all-star center.  The injuries are a concern and the contract is fat. 

Of course, it's really hard to sell yourself on taking the lopez risk when you have a career backup like Zeller putting up such great numbers right now.

So just to be clear...

Rondo= washed up scrub

Lopez= best low post scorer in the league, and all-star


I guess I won't say anything further. My mother always taught me, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Rondo isn't a washed up scrub... he's an overrated player who doesn't make much of an impact in most systems.  He still has plenty of game left in him.

Lopez is arguably the best low post scorer in the league.  Yes.

Overrated by whom exactly?

Dallas... and only Dallas, apparently.

Than you might as well put other teams who "overrated" Rondo

there are none.  Dallas is apparently the only one.

[celts10]

Maybe 'fascinated' means something different than I think it means.

More like the fascination on the thought of hidden potential in the cases of O'Bryant and Melo. Moore was nothing more than an extra body for that playoff run but we passed on KG's old teammate Joe feakin Smith for him. I think Smith would have been a better fit.

[mgent]

Once upon a time I had high hopes for Brook Lopez. Now a days, if I were GM, you wouldn't be able to pay me to have in on the roster.

Too injured, too soft. Quite possibly one of the worst rebounding 7 footers in the league along with Bargnani. Terrible defender as well. Overall negative impact.

To be more succinct, I would rather have received the bag of rocks we got from Dallas than Lopez. He sucks that much.

Lopez is arguably the best low-post scorer in the game.   He's a lock to give you 20 a night.  He's not much of a rebounder... he gets a couple blocks a night, but I don't know if he's a great rim protector.   Getting Lopez would have been an upgrade for sure.  He's a 26 year old all-star center.  The injuries are a concern and the contract is fat. 

Of course, it's really hard to sell yourself on taking the lopez risk when you have a career backup like Zeller putting up such great numbers right now.

So just to be clear...

Rondo= washed up scrub

Lopez= best low post scorer in the league, and all-star


I guess I won't say anything further. My mother always taught me, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Rondo isn't a washed up scrub... he's an overrated player who doesn't make much of an impact in most systems.  He still has plenty of game left in him.

Lopez is arguably the best low post scorer in the league.  Yes.

Overrated by whom exactly?

Dallas... and only Dallas, apparently.

Than you might as well put other teams who "overrated" Rondo

there are none.  Dallas is apparently the only one.

I'm disregarding the "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" post by my boy KGs Knee, but you have been way too smug since Rondo got traded.

[KGs Knee]

Once upon a time I had high hopes for Brook Lopez. Now a days, if I were GM, you wouldn't be able to pay me to have in on the roster.

Too injured, too soft. Quite possibly one of the worst rebounding 7 footers in the league along with Bargnani. Terrible defender as well. Overall negative impact.

To be more succinct, I would rather have received the bag of rocks we got from Dallas than Lopez. He sucks that much.

Lopez is arguably the best low-post scorer in the game.   He's a lock to give you 20 a night.  He's not much of a rebounder... he gets a couple blocks a night, but I don't know if he's a great rim protector.   Getting Lopez would have been an upgrade for sure.  He's a 26 year old all-star center.  The injuries are a concern and the contract is fat. 

Of course, it's really hard to sell yourself on taking the lopez risk when you have a career backup like Zeller putting up such great numbers right now.

So just to be clear...

Rondo= washed up scrub

Lopez= best low post scorer in the league, and all-star


I guess I won't say anything further. My mother always taught me, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Rondo isn't a washed up scrub... he's an overrated player who doesn't make much of an impact in most systems.  He still has plenty of game left in him.

Lopez is arguably the best low post scorer in the league.  Yes.

Overrated by whom exactly?

Dallas... and only Dallas, apparently.

Than you might as well put other teams who "overrated" Rondo

there are none.  Dallas is apparently the only one.

I'm disregarding the "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" post by my boy KGs Knee, but you have been way too smug since Rondo got traded.

I didn't realize I was anyone's "boy" around these parts...but TP to you good sir/ma'am!

[gpap]

Right about now, I trade Wallace/Sully/Olynyk for Lopez all day.