Could the Celts get Gordon Hayward?

[piercetruth34]

I think it has to be taken into account that Jeff's numbers have dipped dramatically since Rondo left.  Jeff relies on a good pg.  Hayward does not. He would fit with Smart imo where we have an assortment of ball handlers.

Rondo would create for Jeff Green and Green is a good finisher.  Hayward creates for other players.

Hayward is a fine player, but he's not an adequate enough piece for this return, and I don't think he's right for this team right now. Perhaps if we miraculously land Jimmy Butler this offseason and bring in another lottery prospect via the draft. Until then, save the assets to land studs like Butler and Jahlil Okafor.

you win that one.  are we going to be able to maneuver all those assets to get those guys though?   does jeff green fit here and all those questions?  Lots and lots of questions.

maybe jeff and sully are just mad because they have to play here all year and hate the losing and not playing.

Young, Crowder, Green.  AB.  Butler would fit.  So would Okafor  We think the same way.  Lots and lots of picks and banking on Butler and Okafor.

[obnoxiousmime]

I think there was a thread about Hayward a few weeks ago. Utah is not giving him up because he's young, he wants to be there, they have plenty of cap space, and they've been rebuilding for awhile now. Even if they wanted to tank, their current record is already bad enough to accomplish that just fine. The time to target him may be after next season, because he has a player option for 2017/2018. If he makes noise about wanting to play for a winner, Utah may worry that he will bolt.

If he were actually available now, the Celtics would jump on him in a second. There's a difference between giving Green, who's already 28 years old, 12-14 million a year and Hayward, who's 24, a max deal (4 years/62 million). For a rebuilding team/rising team, Hayward is ideal. Green is a better fit for a team ready to win now.

I'll also be Debbie Downer again and repeat what I said in that thread - Utah is keeping Favors, Hayward, and Gobert going forward. The young player they'd be willing to deal/lose in RFA is Kanter. Everybody's bone just went down.

[piercetruth34]

Why wouldn't we have kept rondo if we are going after butler and okafor though? He just didn't want to be here?  Seems like rondo would fit with those guys really well.  We must really like Marcus smart. I do but even still.  I guess going young vs waiting for a center like okafor to develop. Having smart to develop with him is better so I'll answer my own question.  Smart can shoot it potentially nad is younger.

I like that idea though. I've been all over butler and okafor too but not in that context.

[vjcsmoke]

Don't want to pay Hayward max money.  It's better to trade/move up for lottery picks and hope we can hit on a big talent.  Like the way we drafted Paul Pierce with pick 10.

Marcus Smart is our Rondo replacement, but where's our goto-scoring Pierce replacement?  It ain't Jeff Green.

[piercetruth34]

that's what i'm saying though.  if we can get Hayward for green, Bradley and picks you got to think that at least.  if we can do that why cant we get butler and a center in the draft?  there's something missing there.  we have james young too. he's young.  we also have AB.

Green is not really a distributer.  I still like jeff but at times he plays a bit soft. Hayward is more a distributer like pierce and plays kind of balls to the wall.  He is kind of like pierce that way. 

Apples and oranges in ways but also different.  It's worth exploring to me. What kind of sf do we want?  Havlicek would move off the ball.  Green plays well off the ball too.  Different players jeff and Hayward.  But similar talents.  A step below guys like pierce and havlicek but not bad if we surround the team with good players.

Otherwise we have to find pierce some other way.

[piercetruth34]

Hayward is not a max player but he's also not being paid like one.  Surrounded with guys like KO, Smart, a young center and max guys.  But something is missing there.

Ultimately you'd think we'd want 3 max guys and 2 guys not quite.  Like sf-max, sg-max.  but its nto necesssarily going to work that way. Smart is still on a rookie deal. If we draft a center he's also going to be aon a rookie deal at first.  We hope to get tim duncan there but hold it a bit.

[piercetruth34]

The appeal of hayward is he has a connection to Stevens.  People assume we are just going to be able to go and get 2 max guys but those players have to want to come here and be a part of a young nucleus.

He could also attract players to want to come here.  But Utah has to want to deal him which I don't see why they would overly.

Ainge traded Green for ray allen.  He could do it again here with Green if Utah really wants to tank the season. KO is paul pierce anyways.  Or something along those lines in theory.

[TheFlex]

Why wouldn't we have kept rondo if we are going after butler and okafor though? He just didn't want to be here?  Seems like rondo would fit with those guys really well.  We must really like Marcus smart. I do but even still.  I guess going young vs waiting for a center like okafor to develop. Having smart to develop with him is better so I'll answer my own question.  Smart can shoot it potentially nad is younger.

I like that idea though. I've been all over butler and okafor too but not in that context.

Entertained a similar idea just a few days ago (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=75089.0). We'd have to have otherworldly luck to land a top 3 pick, thereby becoming a place Butler would actually leave Chicago for (becoming the guy on a young exciting team), and then for to the Bulls to opt to S&T him to us. Still, I can't stop dreaming about this group next season:

Smart/turn some assets into a backup PG
Butler/Young
Pierce/Crowder
Sully/Olynyk
Okafor/Zeller

[obnoxiousmime]

Why wouldn't we have kept rondo if we are going after butler and okafor though? He just didn't want to be here?  Seems like rondo would fit with those guys really well.  We must really like Marcus smart. I do but even still.  I guess going young vs waiting for a center like okafor to develop. Having smart to develop with him is better so I'll answer my own question.  Smart can shoot it potentially nad is younger.

I like that idea though. I've been all over butler and okafor too but not in that context.

Guys that are young and expected to be one of the best players on a contender just don't win titles in the NBA. LeBron and Durant couldn't do it and they were two of the best young players the past decade. Usually you have to be in that sweet spot of 26-31 where you have the best combination of experience and physical ability.

Assuming Rondo is even still the same player he was before the injury, he should have a few more prime years left and should be with a veteran team with guys in the aforementioned age range, not guys 19-25 years old.

We'll see what happens in the playoffs, but I'm starting to wonder if even guys who have past 30 might be breaking down faster than before. You look at guys like LeBron (turns 30 this month) and Carmelo (30) and they're already taking it easy in the regular season or dealing with nagging injuries. We've already seen how fast Wade (33 next month) declined, though he was older than the other guys in his draft class.

[greece66]

Just curious

Utah is really awful.

Would Jeff Green, James Young and picks get you Hayward?

Maybe then, Utah could turn around and give JG a similar deal to what they gave Hayward and have James Young and some picks.

NO           

[timpiker]

I'd love him.  I hoped Danny would get him last summer.  But why would Utah get rid of the only draw and face of the franchise?

[Chris22]

I'd love him.  I hoped Danny would get him last summer.  But why would Utah get rid of the only draw and face of the franchise?

I wanted us to get him last summer as well.

Instead we signed Bradley. Ugh.

[Alleyoopster]

Hayward is not a max player but he's also not being paid like one.  Surrounded with guys like KO, Smart, a young center and max guys.  But something is missing there.

Ultimately you'd think we'd want 3 max guys and 2 guys not quite.  Like sf-max, sg-max.  but its nto necesssarily going to work that way. Smart is still on a rookie deal. If we draft a center he's also going to be aon a rookie deal at first.  We hope to get tim duncan there but hold it a bit.

Might not have been a max contract, but it is close.  He might be better than Green, just not nearly 7$ million/year more.  http://www.spotrac.com/nba/utah-jazz/gordon-hayward/
I agree, something would still be missing even with him in the lineup. 

[greece66]

Hayward is not a max player but he's also not being paid like one.  Surrounded with guys like KO, Smart, a young center and max guys.  But something is missing there.

Ultimately you'd think we'd want 3 max guys and 2 guys not quite.  Like sf-max, sg-max.  but its nto necesssarily going to work that way. Smart is still on a rookie deal. If we draft a center he's also going to be aon a rookie deal at first.  We hope to get tim duncan there but hold it a bit.

We ll have to be lucky at Cavs level for this to happen. Very unlikely.

[cb8883]

We won't go near him.
Overrated and overpaid.

What team is winning a championship with Gordon Hayward as a max player?

None!

I agree strongly with your second post but he's out producing Chandler Parsons right now on virtually the same contract and with the new TV deal he isn't a max guy. He's a good role player. I'd like him as a 3rd or 4th option but he isn't a star