Author Topic: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN  (Read 56526 times)

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Re: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN
« Reply #210 on: December 25, 2014, 02:10:47 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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The two guys with the most potential on our team (outside of Green who is looking like he is on his way out) are Sullinger (struggling, out of shape) and KO (does not have the personality to be a "me" guy).   Waiters has the potential to be that guy. That is why the Cavs drafted him higher than expected.

If the Cavs drafted Waiters so highly, then why are they trying to dump him?  I think Waiters reminds me of Ricky Davis.  A guy who can score but ultimately doesn't improve your club.  I'd rather get a lotto pick in return for Green's services than a guy who doesn't add much except some volume scoring.

I do feel that Green is our most attractive piece left.  I hope Ainge maximize's his value.  Oh and if we can trade Brandan Wright for something useful -- just get it done!

you can't have 4 "go to scorer" . It's hard to make it work and can backfire actually

Lebron, Irving, Love. Waiters has little to no chance

They need a center and don't have assets nor many attractive pick to obtain one outside of Waiters .

The Cavs were more than willing to trade Waiters as part of the Love deal but Minny held out for Wiggins which was smart on their part.  I'm sure the Cavs will be willing to trade Waiters for one of the centers that they want but they'd need someone back to provide some bench scoring.  Thorton might work but he's too expensive.  Turner seems like a possibility and he fits within the Bogans TPE.   

Re: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN
« Reply #211 on: December 25, 2014, 03:30:44 AM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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Hard to get excited about a future Memphis second rounder, but I'm curious what people think of this deal.   Say, a #25 and a #50 pick for Green.

That's simply a horrible return for Green. If the pick looks like it will be in the lottery then yes.  Otherwise, no thanks.

Your putting too high a value on Green. He's not a superstar, any NBA GM worth his salt isn't gonna trade any pick 1-12 for him. We should be happy with a mid to late 1st, one mid level young prospect, and maybe an expiring contract.

As evidenced by the last few years of trades league wide, the value of first round picks is at an all time high. And Danny has more of them then anybody. But getting a lotto pick for JG is just not gonna happen

Re: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN
« Reply #212 on: December 25, 2014, 08:30:24 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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If any of these "assets" lead to anything, then fine, I'll be a happy camper.

Til then, Ainge's quest to rebuild the team gets an incomplete from me.

By the way, don't look now, but I think guys like Sully and Green are getting tired of losing and I don't blame them one bit.

Not sure why Ainge is getting such a benefit of the doubt.

Because he won a championship in five years due to the help of a former friend.

fyp
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Re: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN
« Reply #213 on: December 25, 2014, 09:39:40 AM »

Offline Jonny CC

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If any of these "assets" lead to anything, then fine, I'll be a happy camper.

Til then, Ainge's quest to rebuild the team gets an incomplete from me.

By the way, don't look now, but I think guys like Sully and Green are getting tired of losing and I don't blame them one bit.

Not sure why Ainge is getting such a benefit of the doubt.

Because he won a championship in five years due to the help of a former friend.

fyp

Yeah...because GMs are in the business of taking less value in return...that's good for their job security.  Last I checked, KG was instrumental in winning the title, but he wasn't alone.  And Big Al is an All Star so it's not like the C's gave up nothing. 
Before a game on Christmas against the Pacers, Bird told Chuck Person that he had a present for him. During the game, Bird shot a 3-pointer in front of Person. Immediately after releasing the ball, Bird said to Person, "Merry F!#*ing Christmas!" and then the shot went in.

Re: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN
« Reply #214 on: December 25, 2014, 09:48:31 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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If any of these "assets" lead to anything, then fine, I'll be a happy camper.

Til then, Ainge's quest to rebuild the team gets an incomplete from me.

By the way, don't look now, but I think guys like Sully and Green are getting tired of losing and I don't blame them one bit.

Not sure why Ainge is getting such a benefit of the doubt.

I don't blame them for being tired of losing, but I do and will blame them if they decide to pack it in as a result.

Tired of losing?

Appropriate response:

Play harder, play better. 
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PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN
« Reply #215 on: December 25, 2014, 10:03:41 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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If any of these "assets" lead to anything, then fine, I'll be a happy camper.

Til then, Ainge's quest to rebuild the team gets an incomplete from me.

By the way, don't look now, but I think guys like Sully and Green are getting tired of losing and I don't blame them one bit.

Not sure why Ainge is getting such a benefit of the doubt.

Because he won a championship in five years due to the help of a former friend.

fyp

Yeah...because GMs are in the business of taking less value in return...that's good for their job security.  Last I checked, KG was instrumental in winning the title, but he wasn't alone.  And Big Al is an All Star so it's not like the C's gave up nothing.

You're right. Politics and handshakes among friends do not exist in the business world... particularly when millions/billions of dollars are involved.
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Re: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN
« Reply #216 on: December 25, 2014, 11:11:32 AM »

Online hwangjini_1

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If any of these "assets" lead to anything, then fine, I'll be a happy camper.

Til then, Ainge's quest to rebuild the team gets an incomplete from me.

By the way, don't look now, but I think guys like Sully and Green are getting tired of losing and I don't blame them one bit.

Not sure why Ainge is getting such a benefit of the doubt.

Because he won a championship in five years due to the help of a former friend.

fyp
actually, earlier on cb in a thread someone posted an interesting article in which mchale was interviewed and he talkd about how he almost made the trade for bynum, and would have but for bynum's weak knees.

mchale was doing his job and took what he viewed as the safest package. so, some evidence exists that mchale did not simply give KG away as a present.

what evidence do we have that mchale really did give KG away as a present? i would like to see it if it exists.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
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Re: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN
« Reply #217 on: December 25, 2014, 11:27:20 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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If any of these "assets" lead to anything, then fine, I'll be a happy camper.

Til then, Ainge's quest to rebuild the team gets an incomplete from me.

By the way, don't look now, but I think guys like Sully and Green are getting tired of losing and I don't blame them one bit.

Not sure why Ainge is getting such a benefit of the doubt.

Because he won a championship in five years due to the help of a former friend.

fyp
actually, earlier on cb in a thread someone posted an interesting article in which mchale was interviewed and he talkd about how he almost made the trade for bynum, and would have but for bynum's weak knees.

mchale was doing his job and took what he viewed as the safest package. so, some evidence exists that mchale did not simply give KG away as a present.

what evidence do we have that mchale really did give KG away as a present? i would like to see it if it exists.

McHale's report of why he did what he did? Wouldn't call that evidence, really.
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Re: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN
« Reply #218 on: December 25, 2014, 11:27:46 AM »

Offline TheFlex

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If any of these "assets" lead to anything, then fine, I'll be a happy camper.

Til then, Ainge's quest to rebuild the team gets an incomplete from me.

By the way, don't look now, but I think guys like Sully and Green are getting tired of losing and I don't blame them one bit.

Not sure why Ainge is getting such a benefit of the doubt.

Because he won a championship in five years due to the help of a former friend.

fyp

Yeah...because GMs are in the business of taking less value in return...that's good for their job security.  Last I checked, KG was instrumental in winning the title, but he wasn't alone.  And Big Al is an All Star so it's not like the C's gave up nothing.

You're right. Politics and handshakes among friends do not exist in the business world... particularly when millions/billions of dollars are involved.

These are not the CEOs or owners. These are the GMs. Some of them may have a handsome bank account thanks to past playing careers or other endeavors plus their current salary, but they don't own the vast portion of the millions and billions that the typical businessman you are alluding to would be/is. And they make more money for a longer time if they refrain from making dumb trades to help out a friend.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

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Re: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN
« Reply #219 on: December 25, 2014, 11:55:42 AM »

Online hwangjini_1

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If any of these "assets" lead to anything, then fine, I'll be a happy camper.

Til then, Ainge's quest to rebuild the team gets an incomplete from me.

By the way, don't look now, but I think guys like Sully and Green are getting tired of losing and I don't blame them one bit.

Not sure why Ainge is getting such a benefit of the doubt.

Because he won a championship in five years due to the help of a former friend.

fyp
actually, earlier on cb in a thread someone posted an interesting article in which mchale was interviewed and he talkd about how he almost made the trade for bynum, and would have but for bynum's weak knees.

mchale was doing his job and took what he viewed as the safest package. so, some evidence exists that mchale did not simply give KG away as a present.

what evidence do we have that mchale really did give KG away as a present? i would like to see it if it exists.

McHale's report of why he did what he did? Wouldn't call that evidence, really.
it is something. again, what is the evidence that he gave away KG as a present?
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN
« Reply #220 on: December 25, 2014, 11:58:21 AM »

Online hpantazo

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If any of these "assets" lead to anything, then fine, I'll be a happy camper.

Til then, Ainge's quest to rebuild the team gets an incomplete from me.

By the way, don't look now, but I think guys like Sully and Green are getting tired of losing and I don't blame them one bit.

Not sure why Ainge is getting such a benefit of the doubt.

Because he won a championship in five years due to the help of a former friend.

fyp
actually, earlier on cb in a thread someone posted an interesting article in which mchale was interviewed and he talkd about how he almost made the trade for bynum, and would have but for bynum's weak knees.

mchale was doing his job and took what he viewed as the safest package. so, some evidence exists that mchale did not simply give KG away as a present.

what evidence do we have that mchale really did give KG away as a present? i would like to see it if it exists.

McHale's report of why he did what he did? Wouldn't call that evidence, really.
it is something. again, what is the evidence that he gave away KG as a present?

We traded a future All-Star and other prospects for KG. It was no present. Big Al is putting up great stats today while Bynum is out of the league. I'd say McHale made the right call and has gotten a lot of undeserved flack for it on top of it.

Same goes for the Pau Gasol to the Lakers deal. I was totally upset and called it a gift that should have been vetoed, but I admit I was completely wrong. Marc Gasol has turned into a legit MVP candidate.

Re: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN
« Reply #221 on: December 25, 2014, 12:19:01 PM »

Offline ViolentGhandi

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yay MIN sure got decent value in return with big Al - he was a 20-10 guy at that time with all the nice moves under the basket (and not even in his prime) - few bigs show that much skillin the post. sometimes it seems like a lost art to me. back in the day when I started watchin b-ball the league had Ewing in a very nice NY team (they didnt look that good ever since), Robinson in San Antonio with the rookie Duncan at the PF spot. Shaq in Orlando - lots of bigs who could really post up :D

Re: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN
« Reply #222 on: December 25, 2014, 12:43:31 PM »

Online hpantazo

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yay MIN sure got decent value in return with big Al - he was a 20-10 guy at that time with all the nice moves under the basket (and not even in his prime) - few bigs show that much skillin the post. sometimes it seems like a lost art to me. back in the day when I started watchin b-ball the league had Ewing in a very nice NY team (they didnt look that good ever since), Robinson in San Antonio with the rookie Duncan at the PF spot. Shaq in Orlando - lots of bigs who could really post up :D

Gerald Green turned out pretty well also.

Re: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN
« Reply #223 on: December 25, 2014, 03:52:36 PM »

Offline Depalma2002

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yay MIN sure got decent value in return with big Al - he was a 20-10 guy at that time with all the nice moves under the basket (and not even in his prime) - few bigs show that much skillin the post. sometimes it seems like a lost art to me. back in the day when I started watchin b-ball the league had Ewing in a very nice NY team (they didnt look that good ever since), Robinson in San Antonio with the rookie Duncan at the PF spot. Shaq in Orlando - lots of bigs who could really post up :D

Gerald Green turned out pretty well also.

and let's not forget that Minnesota also got the #6 pick in the 2009 draft (as well as a late first in that draft).

Were the wolves still doing Danny a favor when they missed on the pick (PG Jonny Flynn) when Steph Curry went with the next pick. They select the right point guard, that deal looks much less one-sided.

Re: Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN
« Reply #224 on: December 25, 2014, 03:56:10 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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If any of these "assets" lead to anything, then fine, I'll be a happy camper.

Til then, Ainge's quest to rebuild the team gets an incomplete from me.

By the way, don't look now, but I think guys like Sully and Green are getting tired of losing and I don't blame them one bit.

Not sure why Ainge is getting such a benefit of the doubt.

Because he won a championship in five years due to the help of a former friend.

fyp
actually, earlier on cb in a thread someone posted an interesting article in which mchale was interviewed and he talkd about how he almost made the trade for bynum, and would have but for bynum's weak knees.

mchale was doing his job and took what he viewed as the safest package. so, some evidence exists that mchale did not simply give KG away as a present.

what evidence do we have that mchale really did give KG away as a present? i would like to see it if it exists.

McHale's report of why he did what he did? Wouldn't call that evidence, really.
it is something. again, what is the evidence that he gave away KG as a present?

I have none, other than speculation. I just don't think McHale's words ought to be considered any more valid than one's intuition. 

Regarding Big Al... I think this post speaks volumes: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070730

He's a one-time all-star, if I'm correct, on the tail end of his career on an awful team in an historically awful conference. One way player. And prior to his trade, he had one good season with us only after 2 other bigs went down. Prior to that, he was riddled with injuries, including a meniscus tear. Couldn't stay healthy. As for Gomes, Green, Telfair!, and a pick... nah. They passed on #5 pick and Big Al previously, then took this pu pu platter? Reeks of a handout from a former buddy.

I don't know what else was available at the time. Odom, Bynum, Farmar and a 2008 first is what I read somewhere. Sounds pretty good to me. If Bynum's injuries kept him from taking LA's offer... that's makes little sense to me, given Al's early injury issues (perhaps not as severe, but a clear pattern early in his career). He had one good year with Cs prior to the trade.
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