Addressing all the Rondo revisionism

[KingChre]

is it too much to ask that cb go ONE day without a rondo thread? he is not a celtic. he is gone. he is a mav. now, for the first time in years we can actually have threads that do NOT all end in debates over trading rondo.

let's breath the fresh air and enjoy the new atmosphere a bit.

let
it
go.

I can't speak for anyone else, hwangjini, but as for me - I "Can't" let it go, at least not yet.

Rajon Rondo, for all his alleged warts - was a CELTIC.





I chose the 2nd pic because this one was a little less graphic, but illustrated his toughness right after his takedown by Dwayne Wade and his subsequent broken arm.

He played the next game.

Fast-forward a few years from that and he is now in a much better place in Dallas.

BUT - because of an inexplicable lack of patience from Danny we just didn't get enough for him.

For us "Old Heads" as youth sometimes call us, I can't help thinking about the Lean Years. You just don't trade away an Anchor for draft picks and some rotation players.

Being a prudent GM means you stay the course and WAIT until a deal comes around that better suits The Team....

I've been an ardent supporter of Danny...and I will continue to support BOS. But this one won't make any sense to me for a while.

And please - this was not BUSINESS.

You have got to be kidding me with this line. Rondo has been on the trade block for 5 years. You must be either incredibly ill informed or incredibly ignorant to think that Danny wasn't patient. He was too freaking patient, and it ended up costing him in the return. To suggest that he didn't do his due diligence on this is naive.

Given the national reaction to this trade, if you still believe that Danny either A. panicked or B. didn't have word from Rondo that it was likely he was leaving (necessitating the move) then I simply don't know what to tell you.

Every situation is different, but has there even been one prominent NBA writer that has criticized the return on the trade? If there is, I have not seen one.

Shouldn't that tell you that this was all that was going to be available? It is not an indictment on Rondo to suggest that he was not worth more. It is the particulars of his situation that generated the return. Expiring contracts are not worth much, and while most of you seem to be holding onto the notion that Rondo is the same player he was pre-ACL injury, facts tell you that he has yet to show the same explosiveness. Regardless of how many triple doubles he has, or how he was leading the league in assists, those numbers have not translated to wins.

He is still a very good player, perhaps even a great one. I wish he could have stayed here too. But this hero-worship has got to stop. He's a unique player who was as fun to watch as any Celtic I've seen, but he's gone, so let's move forward please.

[Beat LA]

is it too much to ask that cb go ONE day without a rondo thread? he is not a celtic. he is gone. he is a mav. now, for the first time in years we can actually have threads that do NOT all end in debates over trading rondo.

let's breath the fresh air and enjoy the new atmosphere a bit.

let
it
go.

I can't speak for anyone else, hwangjini, but as for me - I "Can't" let it go, at least not yet.

Rajon Rondo, for all his alleged warts - was a CELTIC.





I chose the 2nd pic because this one was a little less graphic, but illustrated his toughness right after his takedown by Dwayne Wade and his subsequent broken arm.

He played the next game.

Fast-forward a few years from that and he is now in a much better place in Dallas.

BUT - because of an inexplicable lack of patience from Danny we just didn't get enough for him.

For us "Old Heads" as youth sometimes call us, I can't help thinking about the Lean Years. You just don't trade away an Anchor for draft picks and some rotation players.

Being a prudent GM means you stay the course and WAIT until a deal comes around that better suits The Team....

I've been an ardent supporter of Danny...and I will continue to support BOS. But this one won't make any sense to me for a while.

And please - this was not BUSINESS.

You have got to be kidding me with this line. Rondo has been on the trade block for 5 years. You must be either incredibly ill informed or incredibly ignorant to think that Danny wasn't patient. He was too freaking patient, and it ended up costing him in the return. To suggest that he didn't do his due diligence on this is naive.

Given the national reaction to this trade, if you still believe that Danny either A. panicked or B. didn't have word from Rondo that it was likely he was leaving (necessitating the move) then I simply don't know what to tell you.

Every situation is different, but has there even been one prominent NBA writer that has criticized the return on the trade? If there is, I have not seen one.

Shouldn't that tell you that this was all that was going to be available? It is not an indictment on Rondo to suggest that he was not worth more. It is the particulars of his situation that generated the return. Expiring contracts are not worth much, and while most of you seem to be holding onto the notion that Rondo is the same player he was pre-ACL injury, facts tell you that he has yet to show the same explosiveness. Regardless of how many triple doubles he has, or how he was leading the league in assists, those numbers have not translated to wins.

He is still a very good player, perhaps even a great one. I wish he could have stayed here too. But this hero-worship has got to stop. He's a unique player who was as fun to watch as any Celtic I've seen, but he's gone, so let's move forward please.

5 years?  5 years!?  You have got to be kidding me with that one.  Ainge has tried to trade him practically from the moment he first walked through that door all the way up until last week.  My favorite one was the Rondo and Ray Allen for Stuckey and Hamilton deal in 09-10, that, incredibly, people on here actually liked , and Detroit reportedly laughed at, which is really all you need to know about Joe Dumars, lol.  This most recent 'trade' was a crap deal and a slap in the face of the tradition of this franchise which was built on LOYALTY.  Phoenix got a better return for DJ in Rick Robey than we did with this steaming pile of dog sh1t.

[tazzmaniac]

Honestly, the incessant bashing, construing of information, and contradictory statements are so far past the point of revisionist history that I consider it an individual art form now.

Ya'll act like there wasn't a significant percentage of the fanbase telling you Rondo was overrated prior to the trade. 

There's no revisionist history happening here... maybe a slight humbling of a fanbase who believed Rondo to be a superstar talent and had a bit of a reality check when they saw him dumped for a protected late 1st.

Rondo is a terrific player.  I'll miss watching him.  A lot of the complaints some of us had are now being echoed on a national level.  Nothing being revised here it's just magnified by the last trickle of Rondo's relevance to this organization.

Rondo isn't a superstar talent overall but he certainly rose to that level in some playoff games.  However he definitely was the only star talent on the team and Ainge should not have traded him for so little unless Rondo actually demanded a trade.   

[GetLucky]

Honestly, the incessant bashing, construing of information, and contradictory statements are so far past the point of revisionist history that I consider it an individual art form now.

Ya'll act like there wasn't a significant percentage of the fanbase telling you Rondo was overrated prior to the trade. 

There's no revisionist history happening here... maybe a slight humbling of a fanbase who believed Rondo to be a superstar talent and had a bit of a reality check when they saw him dumped for a protected late 1st.

Rondo is a terrific player.  I'll miss watching him.  A lot of the complaints some of us had are now being echoed on a national level.  Nothing being revised here it's just magnified by the last trickle of Rondo's relevance to this organization.

I wasn't talking about you LarBrd33. I actually applaud you as one of posters who is consistent in your stance. I was talking about the people who contradict themselves, use all caps, copy/paste, and generally use bad grammar. You are none of those (since I've been lurking at least).

No, evidence points to you being correct about Rondo's diminishing value. You stuck with it, and I have nothing bad to say about how you did it.

[TheFlex]

Ainge should not have traded him for so little unless Rondo actually demanded a trade.   

So Rondo's already disappointing trade value could have sank even lower?

[Beat LA]

Honestly, the incessant bashing, construing of information, and contradictory statements are so far past the point of revisionist history that I consider it an individual art form now.

Ya'll act like there wasn't a significant percentage of the fanbase telling you Rondo was overrated prior to the trade. 

There's no revisionist history happening here... maybe a slight humbling of a fanbase who believed Rondo to be a superstar talent and had a bit of a reality check when they saw him dumped for a protected late 1st.

Rondo is a terrific player.  I'll miss watching him.  A lot of the complaints some of us had are now being echoed on a national level.  Nothing being revised here it's just magnified by the last trickle of Rondo's relevance to this organization.

You saying that Rondo is a terrific player goes completely against everything you've ever said about the guy.  I thought that he was a lazy, overrated role player with a bad attitude? You also won't miss watching him at all - you'll only miss having a chance to take a dump on him every day, and then in another thread you actually said that you wanted him to come back in the offseason!? Really, lol?

[GreenFaith1819]

You have got to be kidding me with this line. Rondo has been on the trade block for 5 years. You must be either incredibly ill informed or incredibly ignorant to think that Danny wasn't patient. He was too freaking patient, and it ended up costing him in the return. To suggest that he didn't do his due diligence on this is naive.

Given the national reaction to this trade, if you still believe that Danny either A. panicked or B. didn't have word from Rondo that it was likely he was leaving (necessitating the move) then I simply don't know what to tell you.

Every situation is different, but has there even been one prominent NBA writer that has criticized the return on the trade? If there is, I have not seen one.

Shouldn't that tell you that this was all that was going to be available? It is not an indictment on Rondo to suggest that he was not worth more. It is the particulars of his situation that generated the return. Expiring contracts are not worth much, and while most of you seem to be holding onto the notion that Rondo is the same player he was pre-ACL injury, facts tell you that he has yet to show the same explosiveness. Regardless of how many triple doubles he has, or how he was leading the league in assists, those numbers have not translated to wins.

He is still a very good player, perhaps even a great one. I wish he could have stayed here too. But this hero-worship has got to stop. He's a unique player who was as fun to watch as any Celtic I've seen, but he's gone, so let's move forward please.

For your 1st para - How long Rajon Rondo has supposedly been on the trading block is a moot point. The fact is that it is inexplicable that Danny couldn't wait until at least the trading deadline, or even the Summer of Free Agency...keep trying to acquire talent or make a trade.

Why did he have to delve into the "Not sure if Rondo is staying or leaving" realm? Why not just let him walk if it got to that? Why not PUT THE BALL in Rondo's Court - if it got to that point? And please don't feed me any line about this being a business - that part of the NBA escapes me and makes little competitive sense to me.

So...let's trade him for a mid 1st round pick and some rotation players.

And - "National Reaction to this trade?" LOL how did the Nation react when Reggie passed? Bias? Didn't BOS attempt to recoup Reggie's contract or something to that point - only to have that shot down?

The "National Reaction" to BOS is that we are the Basketball Yankees - have won too much and don't need to win any more.

And the lack (or perceived lac thereof) of attention from NBA writers in regards to the trade means, to me, that perhaps "They" see this as a business move.

Not I. Never will.

And your comment about his explosiveness? That is irrelevant to me. He looked explosive in DAL after just one game. Rajon looked the absolute same to me in DAL as he looked in BOS. If there was any hesitancy in Rondo's play or attitude - then maybe Danny should've sat Rondo down, had dinner with him and re-assured him of his plans for the future in BOS - with him or even without him.

Stop playing the chess game.

[KingChre]

5 years?  5 years!?  You have got to be kidding me with that one.  Ainge has tried to trade him practically from the moment he first walked through that door all the way up until last week.  My favorite one was the Rondo and Ray Allen for Stuckey and Hamilton deal in 09-10, that, incredibly, people on here actually liked , and Detroit reportedly laughed at, which is really all you need to know about Joe Dumars, lol.  This most recent 'trade' was a crap deal and a slap in the face of the tradition of this franchise which was built on LOYALTY.  Phoenix got a better return for DJ in Rick Robey than we did with this steaming pile of dog sh1t.

This is a confusing response. Let me try to wade through the swamp and try to figure out your true intent, other than electronically slobbering all over Rondo of course...

Is your opinion that he was too patient or not enough?

Also, evidently you believe that after buying a draft pick to specifically draft Rondo, his true intent was to get rid of him immediately? Hmmm...that is perplexing, but OK.

You are referencing a trade that occurred in 1983. Perhaps it would interest you that it was the first year of a new CBA that was signed in March of that year. Since that date, there have been 3 additional CBA's approved. My point is, given the changes in the way that the league does business, comparing trades and team building from earlier eras is not very useful.

In response to the Detroit rumor. You conveniently left out that Allen was also an expiring contract that year, and that Tayshaun Prince was also included in the rumor. If you are going to scoff at something, at least do it accurately.

[LarBrd33]

Honestly, the incessant bashing, construing of information, and contradictory statements are so far past the point of revisionist history that I consider it an individual art form now.

Ya'll act like there wasn't a significant percentage of the fanbase telling you Rondo was overrated prior to the trade. 

There's no revisionist history happening here... maybe a slight humbling of a fanbase who believed Rondo to be a superstar talent and had a bit of a reality check when they saw him dumped for a protected late 1st.

Rondo is a terrific player.  I'll miss watching him.  A lot of the complaints some of us had are now being echoed on a national level.  Nothing being revised here it's just magnified by the last trickle of Rondo's relevance to this organization.

You saying that Rondo is a terrific player goes completely against everything you've ever said about the guy.  I thought that he was a lazy, overrated role player with a bad attitude? You also won't miss watching him at all - you'll only miss having a chance to take a dump on him every day, and then in another thread you actually said that you wanted him to come back in the offseason!? Really, lol?

Actually Beat LA, there might be some fans here who thought Rondo was lazy and a bad attitude.  That wasn't me, though. 

He was my favorite player on the Celtics.  He was definitely the best player on the Celtics.  I think the first time I took the contrarian stance about Rondo was in a thread comparing him to Chris Paul.  I said at the time that Rondo wasn't anywhere near the level of Chris Paul.  Unpopular opinion at the time, because it's a Celtics blog, but I wasn't going to actively participate in group delusion for the sake of my fandom.   I was the same way about Pierce... favorite player of the modern era, but if someone compared him to LeBron James, I was willing to point out how foolish that was.  Likewise, a post on here in 2008 claiming Kendrick Perkins was a better fit for our team than "Hakeem in his prime"...  I called that one out too. 

That doesn't take anything away from how I felt about those guys.  But come on...

I was always willing to point out Rondo's strengths and his flaws.  Frankly, he's been pretty overrated.  He was never the best player on the team during the KG/Pierce era.  I felt like his playmaking ability was a little overstated.  Quick summary, I felt like he got a ton of assists, because the ball needed to be in his hands.  It needed to be in his hands because he was such a liability without the ball.  So by necessity the ball had to flow through Rondo.  On some teams it might work, but it limits the style of play a team can run.  Makes the offense predictable.  There's a reason why so few teams were willing to bring in Rondo... he's a player whose flaws you'd need to mask for him to be successful.   There aren't a lot of teams that can utilize him in a way that he needs to be utilized.   I would have been fine with us going out and getting stars that fit his style, but it always seemed like the most difficult path to take.  He was approaching 30 and this team is still a few years away from even being mildly relevant.  He had to go.

[tazzmaniac]

Ainge should not have traded him for so little unless Rondo actually demanded a trade.   

So Rondo's already disappointing trade value could have sank even lower?

One more late first round draft pick does little to enhance our prospects.  I would have taken the chance of losing Rondo in free agency for nothing and focused on getting someone during this trade season or in free agency that would have convinced Rondo that we can be contenders in the short term.  If Rondo decided to leave anyway, there is a good chance we could have gotten similar value in a sign and trade.   

[Beat LA]

5 years?  5 years!?  You have got to be kidding me with that one.  Ainge has tried to trade him practically from the moment he first walked through that door all the way up until last week.  My favorite one was the Rondo and Ray Allen for Stuckey and Hamilton deal in 09-10, that, incredibly, people on here actually liked , and Detroit reportedly laughed at, which is really all you need to know about Joe Dumars, lol.  This most recent 'trade' was a crap deal and a slap in the face of the tradition of this franchise which was built on LOYALTY.  Phoenix got a better return for DJ in Rick Robey than we did with this steaming pile of dog sh1t.

This is a confusing response. Let me try to wade through the swamp and try to figure out your true intent, other than electronically slobbering all over Rondo of course...

Is your opinion that he was too patient or not enough?

Also, evidently you believe that after buying a draft pick to specifically draft Rondo, his true intent was to get rid of him immediately? Hmmm...that is perplexing, but OK.

You are referencing a trade that occurred in 1983. Perhaps it would interest you that it was the first year of a new CBA that was signed in March of that year. Since that date, there have been 3 additional CBA's approved. My point is, given the changes in the way that the league does business, comparing trades and team building from earlier eras is not very useful.

In response to the Detroit rumor. You conveniently left out that Allen was also an expiring contract that year, and that Tayshaun Prince was also included in the rumor. If you are going to scoff at something, at least do it accurately.

Not nearly enough, imo.  As to the second emboldened point, why does that matter?  People compare trades all the time.  It's all about equal value, irrespective of the era.  Memphis got more for Pau Gasol in 2008 than we did for Rondo, which was labelled as highway robbery at the time.  Plus, Ainge didn't buy that pick at all.  That draft choice was moved so many times, even once by Danny, prior to him reacquiring it in a trade with Phoenix.  Via Rondo's basketball reference page http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html-

Transactions
August 6, 2004: Traded by the Los Angeles Lakers (as a future 2006 1st round draft pick) with Rick Fox and Gary Payton to the Boston Celtics for Chucky Atkins, Jumaine Jones and Chris Mihm.

February 24, 2005: Traded by the Boston Celtics (as a future 2006 1st round draft pick) with Tom Gugliotta, Gary Payton and Michael Stewart to the Atlanta Hawks for Antoine Walker.

August 19, 2005: Traded by the Atlanta Hawks (as a future 2006 1st round draft pick) with Boris Diaw and a 2008 1st round draft pick (Robin Lopez was later selected) to the Phoenix Suns for Joe Johnson.

June 28, 2006: Drafted by the Phoenix Suns in the 1st round (21st pick) of the 2006 NBA Draft.

June 28, 2006: Traded by the Phoenix Suns with Brian Grant to the Boston Celtics for a 2007 1st round draft pick (Rudy Fernandez was later selected).

I also recall that Ray was an expiring, but I don't see how that was relevant because Detroit was just beginning it's rebuilding process at that time, and, honestly, I don't remember Tayshaun Prince even being discussed as a part of that deal, but I'll look it up, anyway.  If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, lol. Either way, though, adding Prince to such a trade still wouldn't have been nearly enough for Rondo, especially after he had come of the 09 postseason where he practically averaged a triple double over 14 games at age 22.

I just found this, btw, which is both hilarious and disappointing at the same time, lol.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/12/18/7418339/rajon-rondo-trade-rumors-history-celtics

I stand corrected about Prince.  TP for you, sir.  It still doesn't change my overall point, though, lol.

[Beat LA]

I forgot about the Rondo and Ray Allen for Amare, Barbosa, and the Suns' pick in the 2009 draft.  Wow.  That's even worse, lol.

[KingChre]

For your 1st para - How long Rajon Rondo has supposedly been on the trading block is a moot point. The fact is that it is inexplicable that Danny couldn't wait until at least the trading deadline, or even the Summer of Free Agency...keep trying to acquire talent or make a trade.

When your point is that Ainge was not patient enough, referencing how long Rondo was available for trade is far from a moot point. Perhaps Ainge could have waited to the deadline, but it wasn't likely the price was going up. Hoping for an injury to someone on a contender is a terrible way to do business. Rondo was just as likely to to get injured himself, killing any chance to get anything for him.

Why did he have to delve into the "Not sure if Rondo is staying or leaving" realm? Why not just let him walk if it got to that? Why not PUT THE BALL in Rondo's Court - if it got to that point? And please don't feed me any line about this being a business - that part of the NBA escapes me and makes little competitive sense to me.

So...let's trade him for a mid 1st round pick and some rotation players.

This is the written equivalent of a child stomping their feet, blocking their ears and screaming "I'm not listening!" Despite your insistence to the contrary, the NBA is a business, a big one. In what business does it make sense to hold onto a declining asset until its value has entirely diminished?

And - "National Reaction to this trade?" LOL how did the Nation react when Reggie passed? Bias? Didn't BOS attempt to recoup Reggie's contract or something to that point - only to have that shot down?

The "National Reaction" to BOS is that we are the Basketball Yankees - have won too much and don't need to win any more.

And the lack (or perceived lac thereof) of attention from NBA writers in regards to the trade means, to me, that perhaps "They" see this as a business move.

Not I. Never will.

OK, now you are starting to go a bit over the top. What does Len Bias have to do with anything? Also, nobody thinks of the Celtics like that anymore. Aside from a highly entertaining championship in 2008, and a nice, competitive run afterwards, this team has not been the dynastic Celtics for a long time.

And yes, I think its safe to assume the writers saw it as a business move, as they do with any player transaction in any sport, obviously.

And your comment about his explosiveness? That is irrelevant to me. He looked explosive in DAL after just one game. Rajon looked the absolute same to me in DAL as he looked in BOS. If there was any hesitancy in Rondo's play or attitude - then maybe Danny should've sat Rondo down, had dinner with him and re-assured him of his plans for the future in BOS - with him or even without him.

Stop playing the chess game.

Confused as to what chess game I am playing, but OK. And if you honestly believe that Rondo's potential future in Boston wasn't discussed before this move was made, then you simply have a much more pessimistic world view than I my friend.

[TheFlex]

To BeatLA:

Proposed Rondo offers: Facepalm. Hindsight is 20/20, friend, and you're certainly take advantage of that.

Comparing trades: Different CBA eras are important to recognize because they may reveal part of the financial motivation for a trade.

Deal to get 2006 #21: So because the pick was moved a lot, Danny didn't actually buy the pick specifically for Rondo as reported multiple times? Man, and I thought some Rondo haters had funny logic.

[tazzmaniac]

Honestly, the incessant bashing, construing of information, and contradictory statements are so far past the point of revisionist history that I consider it an individual art form now.

Ya'll act like there wasn't a significant percentage of the fanbase telling you Rondo was overrated prior to the trade. 

There's no revisionist history happening here... maybe a slight humbling of a fanbase who believed Rondo to be a superstar talent and had a bit of a reality check when they saw him dumped for a protected late 1st.

Rondo is a terrific player.  I'll miss watching him.  A lot of the complaints some of us had are now being echoed on a national level.  Nothing being revised here it's just magnified by the last trickle of Rondo's relevance to this organization.

You saying that Rondo is a terrific player goes completely against everything you've ever said about the guy.  I thought that he was a lazy, overrated role player with a bad attitude? You also won't miss watching him at all - you'll only miss having a chance to take a dump on him every day, and then in another thread you actually said that you wanted him to come back in the offseason!? Really, lol?

Actually Beat LA, there might be some fans here who thought Rondo was lazy and a bad attitude.  That wasn't me, though. 

He was my favorite player on the Celtics.  He was definitely the best player on the Celtics.  I think the first time I took the contrarian stance about Rondo was in a thread comparing him to Chris Paul.  I said at the time that Rondo wasn't anywhere near the level of Chris Paul.  Unpopular opinion at the time, because it's a Celtics blog, but I wasn't going to actively participate in group delusion for the sake of my fandom.   I was the same way about Pierce... favorite player of the modern era, but if someone compared him to LeBron James, I was willing to point out how foolish that was.  Likewise, a post on here in 2008 claiming Kendrick Perkins was a better fit for our team than "Hakeem in his prime"...  I called that one out too. 

That doesn't take anything away from how I felt about those guys.  But come on...

I was always willing to point out Rondo's strengths and his flaws.  Frankly, he's been pretty overrated.  He was never the best player on the team during the KG/Pierce era.  I felt like his playmaking ability was a little overstated.  Quick summary, I felt like he got a ton of assists, because the ball needed to be in his hands.  It needed to be in his hands because he was such a liability without the ball.  So by necessity the ball had to flow through Rondo.  On some teams it might work, but it limits the style of play a team can run.  Makes the offense predictable.  There's a reason why so few teams were willing to bring in Rondo... he's a player whose flaws you'd need to mask for him to be successful.   There aren't a lot of teams that can utilize him in a way that he needs to be utilized.   I would have been fine with us going out and getting stars that fit his style, but it always seemed like the most difficult path to take.  He was approaching 30 and this team is still a few years away from even being mildly relevant.  He had to go.

In the beginning of the Big 3 era, the ball didn't have to flow through Rondo all the time.  It often flowed through Pierce.  As the Big 3 aged, Rondo adjusted his game to carry more of the load.  Rondo adjusted his game again to try to fit into the CBS system and the limited talent around him.  In Dallas, I expect he'll adjust his game again.  While you focus on his flaws, I see a multifaceted player who can help a team in a number of different ways.  I'd much rather have a player like Rondo on the team than a one trick pony like Jeff Green.