Author Topic: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism  (Read 16018 times)

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Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« on: December 21, 2014, 10:01:37 PM »

Offline Eja117

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I have heard a rather large number of absurd Rondo arguments and statements this week so I thought I should address them all and deal with them in one place. Feel free to add your own


Rondo was never that good a player: No actually he was. He was a 4 time all star and a 4 time all defensive player. His rivalry with Derrick Rose was epic at one point.  He was absolutely a great player. There are only two other players in NBA history to have 29,18, and 13 in a playoff game….Wilt and Oscar Robertson.

Rondo was a good player but isn’t any more/We are a better team without him:  Please explain how a bad point guard leads the league in assists and all pgs in rebounds and (I’m just guessing) trip dubs? Magic?  Many players have come back from injuries and Rondo is one of them. Now we have a situation where we'll win less rebounding battles and when players get open they won't get the ball.

Rondo’s shooting is a horrific problem:  Rondo’s shooting is unfortunate right now, but this is nothing new and somewhat understandable when a whole defense is aimed at stopping you when you are the best player on your team.  Rondo is well aware of his bad shooting, which is why he is PASS FIRST!  And just in case he misses his shot he REBOUNDS IT, which is something we all wish Jeff Green and KO would do a little more of.  This is a recent example of how good a passer Rondo is in making up for his lack of great shooting.   In the 2012-13 season Rondo ended the year in late January due to his ACL injury. He played 38 games that year. Here are the guys that he STILL had more assists than…..Ricky Rubio, Darren Collison, Jameer Nelson, John Wall, Ray Felton, Paul Pierce, Nate Robinson, George Hill, D Wade, Kyrie Irving, Steve Nash, Isaiah Thomas, Kirk Heinrich, Luke Ridnour, Brandon Knight, Mario Chalmers, Jason Kidd, Eric Bledsoe….when you see the stats you see lots of these guys playing like 28 minutes a game for like 75 games or something and they couldn’t do what Rondo did in 38, in some of the later cases missing him by over a 100 assists.  Rondo does with assists what guys like Russell or Wilt did with rebounding or blocking.

Rondo is a diva: Good. So was MJ and Bird and KG and lots of the best players. And there are some coach divas. The only people this is a problem for is the media, but for some reason when Bill Belichik does it they swoon over him. When Kobe or Bron do it they swoon over them. When Bird did it and MJ did it they swooned over them. But for some reason Rondo gets the hate. Secondly he still has a good relationship with Doc, which strongly implies his coaches at least find things to like about him. Perhaps his competitiveness or the way he has high standards.

Rondo is such a diva he was a bad leader, especially for such a young team: Really? Was he a bad leader when he was playing with a partially torn ACL? Was he such a bad leader when he was playing with a dislocated elbow and he got 11 assists and 4 points in the 4th quarter in the playoffs?
Was he such a bad leader when he became the first Celtic since Bird in 1986 to get two triple doubles in a playoff series? Or the first NBA player with three triple doubles in a series since J Kidd in 2002?

Rondo was definitely leaving in free agency so we just haaaaadddd to get sooommmeeethhhinnngg for him:  So many problems with this one. One is that it was unclear if he was leaving. He wanted to go through free agency. That’s how you get the biggest offer. It’s also how you find out what people think about you and if I were Rondo I would definitely want to know what people thought of me.  When Rondo went to free agency the first time did he leave? Did he make huge demands? No. He signed a team friendly long term deal. We had the most to offer him. We could show him the love the most. Doc Rivers was recently quoted as saying Rondo didn’t know what he wanted. Does that sound like a guy that wants to leave so bad? This is what Bird rights are for. It’s so you have the leverage, which we did. Use it. Say to the player “Fine. Go find a team you want to play for that wants you and will pay you what you want. We’ll have the biggest offer for you right here where the fans love you”.  You say to other teams “We’re gonna offer him more money than anyone and we like him a lot so if you want him you gotta pay for him”.  Didn’t anyone see Chris Moneymaker stare down Sammy Farha? Come on.  If you have some nice relic like a civil war rifle and you’re a bit down on your luck and your neighbor offers you $50 for it and you know it’s worth a grand you keep it. Or you put it on a ebay and if the offers aren’t good you keep it.  Keeping is a legit thing to do. Selling lower than Death Valley isn’t.  If he was so terrible than we could keep him for not a lot of money. If he was so good we should have gotten more for him.

Brandon Wright will be a good player. We need a shot blocker:  He’s a free agent at the end of the year just like Rondo and he’s Brandon Wright. This isn’t Dikembe Mutumbo we’re talking about here.

Marcus Smart is obviously going to be a great point guard: This is far from clear. He is also not such a great shooter. And he’s not as good a passer or rebounder.  He had the whole off season to improve his shot and it didn’t happen. He is a fine prospect but he is far from a sure thing.  He isn’t showing even 30% of what Victor Oladipo or MCW did last year.  Or Trey Burke. 

That pick from the Mavs could help us: What if the Mavs win the championship next year?  You just traded Rondo for JR Giddens. Good trade?  Oh. Maybe the pick will be in 20s? Hello Juwan Johnson or Fab Melo.  We could have gotten a pick at any point we traded him and we have like a trillion picks right now. We need elite players, not picks.

But we got a trade exception!
Great. Maybe we can trade for someone leading the league in assists and rebounds at their position known for superior toughness…oh ….wait.

Other GMs weren't offering anything for Rondo because they know he isn't very good: No. They didn't offer anything for him because they were cowardly and because they knew he would be a free agent at the end of the year and could walk. So finally a GM with guts stared Ainge down into giving him up for nothing. They all fell into the same trap as Ainge. The "Ooohhh nooooo! He coouuuldd walk away! And then I'd have nothing!" trap.  Either you try to get and keep the best players or you become some terrible team like Philly or the 90s Clippers. Shoulda tried to keep a great player and let the money come off the books if he left. Possibly still coulda done a sign and trade and gotten something if he left.

Point is….Rondo was and is an elite player at his position who puts up elite statistics, who might have signed here and that we could have gotten more for in a trade. Ainge got hosed.  Cuban is his daddy.   


Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2014, 10:14:18 PM »

Offline 2short

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Tp
But rondo haters will be coming with some silly stat or that he stole a rebound tonight from dirk to pad his stats ::)
Guess what team looked darn good tonight?

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2014, 10:15:52 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Triboy16 and Chris22 will post in this thread in 5....4....3...2...1....

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2014, 10:21:54 PM »

Offline 2short

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Triboy16 and Chris22 will post in this thread in 5....4....3...2...1....
Check Mavs blog site  8)

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2014, 10:23:23 PM »

Offline Who

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Rondo's scoring has been a big problem this year.

In the past, Rondo was an above average scorer in (1) interior shots (2) transition (3) cuts. He developed into a capable midrange shooter.

His outside shooting and FT shooting has always been a problem but he was an asset in those other areas as a scorer.

However, this year, Rondo's scoring utility has dropped off in all the strong areas of his game scoring wise as well as struggling with his jumper. This has made him a very large liability in terms of scoring and I think comparable to someone like Ricky Rubio. This is a big drop-off from his scoring in the 2008-2012 seasons.

This to me is the main reason for the drop-off in his performance and the area he will need to correct in order to reestablish himself as one of the top PGs in the league. I am confident Rondo can do that given time as he continues to get himself healthy after the knee injury and the broken hand he suffered at start of the season. But until he does so, Rondo is on the outside looking in amongst the top PGs in the league.

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2014, 10:25:08 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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is it too much to ask that cb go ONE day without a rondo thread? he is not a celtic. he is gone. he is a mav. now, for the first time in years we can actually have threads that do NOT all end in debates over trading rondo.

let's breath the fresh air and enjoy the new atmosphere a bit.

let
it
go.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2014, 10:28:47 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Triboy16 and Chris22 will post in this thread in 5....4....3...2...1....

Lol, TP.  Nailed it.

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2014, 10:30:17 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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TP to eja117 for actually taking the time to write all of that, lol. ;D Don't mess with Mace (sarcasm)! ;) ;D

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2014, 10:31:59 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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is it too much to ask that cb go ONE day without a rondo thread? he is not a celtic. he is gone. he is a mav. now, for the first time in years we can actually have threads that do NOT all end in debates over trading rondo.

let's breath the fresh air and enjoy the new atmosphere a bit.

let
it
go.

You're leveling a complaint against the wrong crowd, lol. ;D

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2014, 10:35:29 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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Honestly, the incessant bashing, construing of information, and contradictory statements are so far past the point of revisionist history that I consider it an individual art form now.

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2014, 10:46:56 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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is it too much to ask that cb go ONE day without a rondo thread? he is not a celtic. he is gone. he is a mav. now, for the first time in years we can actually have threads that do NOT all end in debates over trading rondo.

let's breath the fresh air and enjoy the new atmosphere a bit.

let
it
go.

I can't speak for anyone else, hwangjini, but as for me - I "Can't" let it go, at least not yet.

Rajon Rondo, for all his alleged warts - was a CELTIC.





I chose the 2nd pic because this one was a little less graphic, but illustrated his toughness right after his takedown by Dwayne Wade and his subsequent broken arm.

He played the next game.

Fast-forward a few years from that and he is now in a much better place in Dallas.

BUT - because of an inexplicable lack of patience from Danny we just didn't get enough for him.

For us "Old Heads" as youth sometimes call us, I can't help thinking about the Lean Years. You just don't trade away an Anchor for draft picks and some rotation players.

Being a prudent GM means you stay the course and WAIT until a deal comes around that better suits The Team....

I've been an ardent supporter of Danny...and I will continue to support BOS. But this one won't make any sense to me for a while.

And please - this was not BUSINESS.

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2014, 10:48:19 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Mostly good points except for:

Shooting -- Rondo has always shot for a high percentage by going to the rim. He has also never shot so poorly from the free throw line. This is a legitimate problem, especially when he isn't surrounded by Monta Ellis and Dirk.

Rondo was leaving. There is little reason to believe that he would have been willing to stick with the rebuild without us overpaying by a lot.

If you are going to criticize those who overstate their points, don't overstate yours. The 'cowards' claim about other GMs is a pretty weak critique of what others are saying because it is just you asserting that you want to be the reality. The real situation is that losing teams didn't think Rondo would re-sign with them and most top teams have PG that are getting the job done.

Look at the competitive teams:

GS - Curry
Portland - Lillard
Toronto - Lowry
Memphis - Conley
Houston - wanted Rondo
Atlanta - Teague
Was - Wall
Dallas - wanted Rondo
Chi - Rose
Cle - Irving
SA - Parker
LAC - Paul
NO - Holiday
Phx - Bledsoe, Dragic
Okc (losing record, but that will change) - Westbrook

Many Celtics fans might not fully appreciate the level of risk Dallas took disrupting their team. I watched the first Rondo game, where Dallas struggled on offense at home for most of the game against a San Antonio team that played a 3OT game the night before and a 3OT game before that with only a single off day. That SA team was missing Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Leonard, Danny Green, and Splitter -- only Diaw played from their top 7 guys! It is still early, but there is no guarantee that Dallas will be better -- or even as good as they previously were -- with Rondo. I expect good things, but it remains to be seen.

I usually respond negatively to the many posts we see discussing how the team regularly has a better record without Rondo than with Rondo over the past 3 seasons -- but it is still the case that we see that pattern. Rondo is incredibly talented, but that doesn't mean that he is always helpful to a team.

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2014, 10:49:26 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Honestly, the incessant bashing, construing of information, and contradictory statements are so far past the point of revisionist history that I consider it an individual art form now.
Ya'll act like there wasn't a significant percentage of the fanbase telling you Rondo was overrated prior to the trade. 

There's no revisionist history happening here... maybe a slight humbling of a fanbase who believed Rondo to be a superstar talent and had a bit of a reality check when they saw him dumped for a protected late 1st.

Rondo is a terrific player.  I'll miss watching him.  A lot of the complaints some of us had are now being echoed on a national level.  Nothing being revised here it's just magnified by the last trickle of Rondo's relevance to this organization.

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2014, 10:59:28 PM »

Offline Sixth Man

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is it too much to ask that cb go ONE day without a rondo thread? he is not a celtic. he is gone. he is a mav. now, for the first time in years we can actually have threads that do NOT all end in debates over trading rondo.

let's breath the fresh air and enjoy the new atmosphere a bit.

let
it
go.

I'm afraid the OP simply cannot let it go - that should obvious.  He is so emotionally invested in RR in very personal way that he interprets the trade as an assault on part of his personality structure... :o

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2014, 11:12:16 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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is it too much to ask that cb go ONE day without a rondo thread? he is not a celtic. he is gone. he is a mav. now, for the first time in years we can actually have threads that do NOT all end in debates over trading rondo.

let's breath the fresh air and enjoy the new atmosphere a bit.

let
it
go.

I'm afraid the OP simply cannot let it go - that should obvious.  He is so emotionally invested in RR in very personal way that he interprets the trade as an assault on part of his personality structure... :o

Or, maybe the OP is just a fan who realizes that our best player was traded for a lot less than he should've been, regardless of "market value" lol.

Celtics Fans are among the best out there..LeBron has said it, others have said it..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GRFYDWsI9U

Maybe the OP remembers the Lean Years.

Maybe the OP is tired of some on here that have formed a hard line about what they "believe" about Rondo, without any proof.

And maybe, just maybe - the OP is a lifelong Celtics Fan - not just Rondo.