Author Topic: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism  (Read 15942 times)

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Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2014, 02:13:31 AM »

Offline KingChre

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I want more clarity on the subject = Rondo wanting out and would have left this summer as FA.

Rondo has said nothing. Ainge has said nothing. Stevens has said nothing.

Well, you probably shouldn't hold your breath on this. It's unlikely the real truth ever comes out, if at all. What I will suggest is that if you watched both press conferences, there doesn't seem to be any lingering hostility on either end. Both sides have been extremely complementary towards each other. Typically, in cases where bad blood exists, that isn't the case. If Rondo wasn't happy with his situation, I think we would have known. Combining that idea, with the scuttlebutt before the trade that stated that Rondo's agent had been approached about potential destinations, that leads me to believe that there side had some input in this.

Also, the first question in Ainge's presser was "Why did you trade Rondo?" He immediately responded (paraphrasing) "The uncertainty of Rajon's future with the team." That's about as much information as you ever get from anybody after a trade.

So, while you are correct about needing more clarity, what do you think is the more likely scenario...

Rondo was traded after being consulted about his future, and a conclusion was reached that he was unlikely to re-sign or Rondo was traded without any discussions, and they just figured "we need to get rid of him quickly for a sub-standard package, because the uncertainty is killing us"?

Its admittedly a bit of a strawman, and I hate to break arguments down into an either or proposition, but I feel like that is what this discussion has devolved to.
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Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2014, 02:17:43 AM »

Offline KingChre

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My first TP.  I'll treasure it.  I don't think Rondo wanted out.  I think he did start doubting that Ainge could put together a contender anytime soon.  I'll also think Rondo isn't sold on CBS and his system.  On the plus side, I now have a playoff team to cheer for during this long rebuild.

I suggest printing it out and putting it in a green frame on your refrigerator :)

I promise this is my last post, but that's pretty much what I mean by wanting out. I don't think its because he didn't like it here or anything, I just don't think he was up for a longer period of losing, and frankly I don't blame him. Combine that with the particulars of the market, and I completely understand why the return wasn't what we were all hoping. I wish him the best, and the Celtics the best, and now I want my bed...
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Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2014, 02:35:15 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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To BeatLA:

Proposed Rondo offers: Facepalm. Hindsight is 20/20, friend, and you're certainly take advantage of that.

Comparing trades: Different CBA eras are important to recognize because they may reveal part of the financial motivation for a trade.

Deal to get 2006 #21: So because the pick was moved a lot, Danny didn't actually buy the pick specifically for Rondo as reported multiple times? Man, and I thought some Rondo haters had funny logic.

Dude, those proposed transactions were a joke at the time, and with hindsight look even worse.  I'm really not using hindsight in that discussion at all, and if I do, I promise that I'll say, "in/with hindsight..." as I have done on occasions when referring to Bass, for example.

In terms of trades, it was my understanding that it was a trade for the salary of Brian Grant and a 2007 first round pick, as opposed to later transactions where Ainge literally just bought a pick, like Bill Walker in the second round of the 2008 draft.  I was more so commenting on the absurdity of how many times that pick changed hands in the course of two years, but I'll tip my hat to Ainge for that move, which is why I find it all the more bothersome that he routinely shops guys that he really wanted, like Rondo, or had worked for years to acquire, like Ray Allen.  The Spurs never made any of their greats available, and that was actually our model, lol, so it's disturbing to see Ainge continue to undermine his own efforts and the potential success of the team if your GM is constantly reshuffling the deck.

Quote
On the night of June 28, 2006, Danny Ainge, the Celtics' president of basketball operations, was, like everyone else involved in the NBA, watching the league's annual draft unfold.

The lottery teams, of which the Celtics were one, had all made their picks. Ainge went into the draft with the No. 7 pick, but had dealt it to Portland in a deal that brought Sebastian Telfair and Theo Ratliff to Boston. The Blazers took on Raef LaFrentz's bloated contract, Dan Dickau and then came out of the draft with Brandon Roy (whom they got via trade from Minnesota for Randy Foye).

As the first round entered the late teens, Ainge couldn't help but notice that one of his favorites was still on the board -- a sophomore guard from Kentucky by the name of Rajon Rondo. There were two problems. The Celtics didn't have another first-round pick and had no second-rounder either. (They later would make a deal with Denver for a second-round pick that yielded Leon Powe.) And they were exceedingly money-conscious at the time, staying away from the mid-level exception and the luxury tax. A first-round pick meant spending three years of guaranteed money.But Celtics principal owner Wyc Grousbeck knew how much Ainge liked Rondo and also knew that Ainge had saved the franchise a ton of cash in the LaFrentz deal. He trusted Ainge's instincts. So it was Grousbeck who posited to Ainge the challenge that resulted in one of the greatest draft picks in the history of the team.

"I told him, if you can find a team, go buy a pick and take Rondo," Grousbeck said. That was enough for Ainge. He found a taker in his old team, the Phoenix Suns, who were sitting on No. 21. Phoenix agreed to draft Rondo if the Celtics would surrender a first-rounder in 2007 (which Ainge had procured from Cleveland in a deal for Jiri Welsch) and take on Brian Grant's contract.


Ainge agreed on both counts. The teams waited for Isiah Thomas to make the Knicks' pick at No. 20, and Thomas went with Renaldo Balkman from South Carolina. The Suns then made the Rondo pick for the Celtics and completed the deal.

At the time, the acquisition of Rondo was viewed as the undercard to the main event, the arrival of Telfair, who was supposed to be the point guard of the future. No one knew then that the speedy Rondo would develop so quickly into one of the league's top players, making Telfair, Delonte West and any other potential point guard candidate in Boston utterly irrelevant.

Rondo was available at No. 21 because there had been some red flags at Kentucky. He had had a brilliant freshman season at Kentucky, only to slump a bit as a sophomore. He clashed with Tubby Smith, his coach at Kentucky. He couldn't shoot from the outside and was a terrible free throw shooter. But he could defend. He could rebound. Boy, could he rebound! And he had a fire that Ainge liked and, as a headstrong player himself in his day, could identify with and understand.

"Sometimes not getting along with your coach is not a bad thing," Ainge said.

In terms of what the Celtics got and where they got it, Rondo ranks as the greatest unexpected draft bonanza in the history of the franchise. Nothing really comes close. (Only five years earlier, the Celtics passed on Tony Parker at No. 21 for Joseph Forte.) Ainge himself was a great pick, but he had the baseball issue hovering over him. Reggie Lewis (No. 22) might have ranked as the greatest steal had he lived long enough.

To get someone at No. 21 and have him turn into an All-Star in this day and age is almost unprecedented. In terms of value for the position, it has to rank at the top. In terms of overall picks that required risk taking or maneuvers, I put it in the top six. (I don't consider the drafting of Paul Pierce a risk pick. He fell into the Celtics' laps.)

And of the five ranked ahead of Rondo, all were top-10 picks coming off full collegiate careers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/columns/story?id=5206636

1). Reggie Lewis is the biggest steal in our history, imo, because he was taken with the second to last pick of the first round in 1987, but whatever.

2).  3 years of guaranteed money?  Oh no (sarcasm).  Seriously, how cheap are these guys?  We never would have been in such a financial predicament if Ainge hadn't taken back Raef.  Ugh.  He did the same thing with Gerald Wallace.  Why does he always seem to take back a horrible contract when it's him who's giving up the best players in the deal, smh?  Why?  That's not how it's supposed to work.  If a team wanted Toine, then I want expirings and draft picks, not anchor contracts attached to mediocre players, for crying out loud.  This is exactly what I'm talking about, and from the looks of it, Wyc should get a lot more credit for telling Danny to go get a pick.  What makes that draft even more strange is that, even though our medical staff told him not to take Brandon Roy, and history has proven them to be correct, Ainge later said that he still should have taken him.  :o HELLO!  What is the matter with this guy?


Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2014, 02:44:50 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Also, I just saw Ian Thompson of SI on Sports Extra. For the record, he was happy with the Rondo return, but that isn't what intrigued me. He made a point that I hadn't considered or seen elsewhere.

Because his market was essentially limited to contenders, those teams aren't going to have much available to trade because they are good, which of course lowers their draft slot, and they obviously aren't going to want to give up too many of the good players that are making them good to begin with.

So combining the following factors:

-Expiring contract
-Lack of contenders in need of a PG
-Lack of contenders with available draft picks to trade
-Injury history

You begin to see how complicated any deal was going to be, without even mentioning the player's ability. These are factors that must be considered before even mentioning the polarizing nature of Rondo's game itself, or any character question marks (which I believe are completely overrated).

See, the problem with that is that people like Ian Thompson and Jackie Mac, etc., never liked Rondo.  Why?  I have no idea, but all I'm saying is that if they didn't like the guy, and have written articles and appeared on TV saying that he's not that great of a player, then why would they care what we got for him, as long as they find someone new in the locker room who will make their jobs easier?  It's really quite immature and pathetic, especially from people of their stature, imo.

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2014, 04:38:16 AM »

Offline 255 Rings

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The Rondo dilemma is simple: He was a great elite PG before his tragic ACL tear ruined both his play and trade value. I think the Rondo fence between supporters and skeptics of his talent was because of his very inconsistent play every single season. Sure, in the playoffs he was a top 10 player easy, but he had to bring that effort nightly to never have the type of divided fan-bases he himself created. He accomplished so many records (Magic/Oscar worthy) and one as a Celtics fan can be proud of those accolades as he did them wearing the green and white. I was always curious about Rondo's market value and when I saw Ainge accept that bad deal it made me realize that outside the realm of the Boston city there are actually PGs stacked in basically every team that would make Rondo invaluable on ability alone. Y'all can say he was a terrific floor general, a nightly triple-double threat, an assist king, but the holes in his games were too big to shun once he was considered the face of the team. He didn't have big brothers KG and Pierce (to an extent Allen) to hide his flaws and they were on full display as soon as he was named captain. That was what concerned me when he was asking for a max deal. Would we have been smart in giving him such a big contract and completely overlooking the same glaring weaknesses he has had for nine years? At 28 you would think he would be a respectable 70% FT shooter, but no he never improved. OK so that was one huge flaw, what about his strengths? Elite rebounder for a PG his size, uncanny court vision, insane dribbling and passing skills, majestic play-making abilities. He made a has been Shaq look like Laker Shaq! All of those strengths were not met and it was unlikely we would have been able to bring the talent to build around those strengths of his. Most FAs re-sign with their teams as they can get the most money and the majority of FAs on 2015 are probably staying put since their teams are actually contenders (Lamarcus, Gasol, DeAndre, etc). Ainge probably saw this and after missing out on Love as well decided it was best to move him and stop dwelling on holding on to him and overpay him money he clearly doesn't deserve, especially after those sub-par performances he was dishing out (2 point streak, lowest FT% and lowest FG% of his career, lowest PPG averages since his rookie year, 4th quarter woes, inability to take over games). He probably should have waited to see if Rondo would have picked up the slack and improved his game alongside his value and deal him on a more potent deal, but at the rate Rondo was going with his petty sad games it was probably going to be a stretch. He's on a team he can take a back-seat on and not worry about being something he's not, and that's a primary option; a superstar player that can win you a great deal of games, nationally televised or not.

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2014, 05:38:13 AM »

Offline Sixth Man

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Also, I just saw Ian Thompson of SI on Sports Extra. For the record, he was happy with the Rondo return, but that isn't what intrigued me. He made a point that I hadn't considered or seen elsewhere.

Because his market was essentially limited to contenders, those teams aren't going to have much available to trade because they are good, which of course lowers their draft slot, and they obviously aren't going to want to give up too many of the good players that are making them good to begin with.

So combining the following factors:

-Expiring contract
-Lack of contenders in need of a PG
-Lack of contenders with available draft picks to trade
-Injury history

You begin to see how complicated any deal was going to be, without even mentioning the player's ability. These are factors that must be considered before even mentioning the polarizing nature of Rondo's game itself, or any character question marks (which I believe are completely overrated).

Those factors also limit the options available for Rondo.  Boston may have ended up as his best option exactly for those reasons.  Unless you think Rondo was dead set on getting Max money or you're a diehard tanker, there's no good reason not to roll the dice and try to convince Rondo to stay.

There is a third consideration here, as suggested by RR close buddy Kendrick Perkins - Rondo was not willing to sign on for further rebuilding.  Once K. Love was traded to Cleveland, the die was cast.

And Doc said he talked to Rondo and thought he was really torn on whether to stay or not.  Ainge still had this trade season and free agency to try to get another quality player.  Why not go for someone like Monroe in a sign and trade in free agency rather than trading Rondo for so little and settling for a long rebuild.  The East is weak and ripe for the taking.   

Because with the salaries required to keep both RR and Monroe, you'd be building around them and our draft picks, recent and future.  Nowhere close to contending for a title that way...also, RR is simply not worth a max deal anymore. 

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2014, 05:44:11 AM »

Offline Sixth Man

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Also, I just saw Ian Thompson of SI on Sports Extra. For the record, he was happy with the Rondo return, but that isn't what intrigued me. He made a point that I hadn't considered or seen elsewhere.

Because his market was essentially limited to contenders, those teams aren't going to have much available to trade because they are good, which of course lowers their draft slot, and they obviously aren't going to want to give up too many of the good players that are making them good to begin with.

So combining the following factors:

-Expiring contract
-Lack of contenders in need of a PG
-Lack of contenders with available draft picks to trade
-Injury history

You begin to see how complicated any deal was going to be, without even mentioning the player's ability. These are factors that must be considered before even mentioning the polarizing nature of Rondo's game itself, or any character question marks (which I believe are completely overrated).

See, the problem with that is that people like Ian Thompson and Jackie Mac, etc., never liked Rondo.  Why?  I have no idea, but all I'm saying is that if they didn't like the guy, and have written articles and appeared on TV saying that he's not that great of a player, then why would they care what we got for him, as long as they find someone new in the locker room who will make their jobs easier? It's really quite immature and pathetic, especially from people of their stature, imo.

Yeah, make stuff up about people and then utilize it to lodge highly personal insults about them...excuse me, but who exactly is 'immature and pathetic' here?  Take a peek in the mirror, why don'cha?  ::)

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2014, 07:47:42 AM »

Offline ssspence

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Love this thread... hyperbolic about the hyperbole.

My favorite one? Moaning about a pick in the 20s. Know who was picked in the 20s? By Ainge no less? Rondo.

But now I'll be told of the poor picks in the 20s Ainge has made, like the good ones don't exist. Why? Because objectivity has become scarce here, particularly regarding Rondo.

I loved watching the guy play, I respect his unique abilities, and feel a little saddened by the door finally permanently closing on the Big Three era. But I'm looking forward to putting all the jaded Rondo discussion in the rear view mirror. He's gone now, and he ain't comin' back.



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Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2014, 08:18:03 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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is it too much to ask that cb go ONE day without a rondo thread? he is not a celtic. he is gone. he is a mav. now, for the first time in years we can actually have threads that do NOT all end in debates over trading rondo.

let's breath the fresh air and enjoy the new atmosphere a bit.

let
it
go.

TP. The obsession on this blog with a player in CLEAR decline is staggering. I look forward to the end of it.
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Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2014, 08:45:20 AM »

Offline mgent

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I think Rondo expected Boston fans to be exactly as upset as we are.

If he expected us to just get over him right away, he probably wouldn't have expressed as much love for us as he has in the past.

FYI:  when players do in fact talk about how great Celtic fans are, they're not talking about the couple loud ones who love tanking and want all our best players traded.
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Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2014, 08:48:29 AM »

Offline Moranis

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5 years?  5 years!?  You have got to be kidding me with that one.  Ainge has tried to trade him practically from the moment he first walked through that door all the way up until last week.  My favorite one was the Rondo and Ray Allen for Stuckey and Hamilton deal in 09-10, that, incredibly, people on here actually liked :o ::), and Detroit reportedly laughed at, which is really all you need to know about Joe Dumars, lol.  This most recent 'trade' ::) was a crap deal and a slap in the face of the tradition of this franchise which was built on LOYALTY.  Phoenix got a better return for DJ in Rick Robey than we did with this steaming pile of dog sh1t.

This is a confusing response. Let me try to wade through the swamp and try to figure out your true intent, other than electronically slobbering all over Rondo of course...

Is your opinion that he was too patient or not enough?

Also, evidently you believe that after buying a draft pick to specifically draft Rondo, his true intent was to get rid of him immediately? Hmmm...that is perplexing, but OK.

You are referencing a trade that occurred in 1983. Perhaps it would interest you that it was the first year of a new CBA that was signed in March of that year. Since that date, there have been 3 additional CBA's approved. My point is, given the changes in the way that the league does business, comparing trades and team building from earlier eras is not very useful.

In response to the Detroit rumor. You conveniently left out that Allen was also an expiring contract that year, and that Tayshaun Prince was also included in the rumor. If you are going to scoff at something, at least do it accurately.

Not nearly enough, imo.  As to the second emboldened point, why does that matter?  People compare trades all the time.  It's all about equal value, irrespective of the era.  Memphis got more for Pau Gasol in 2008 than we did for Rondo, which was labelled as highway robbery at the time.  Plus, Ainge didn't buy that pick at all.  That draft choice was moved so many times, even once by Danny, prior to him reacquiring it in a trade with Phoenix.  Via Rondo's basketball reference page http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html-

Quote
Transactions
August 6, 2004: Traded by the Los Angeles Lakers (as a future 2006 1st round draft pick) with Rick Fox and Gary Payton to the Boston Celtics for Chucky Atkins, Jumaine Jones and Chris Mihm.

February 24, 2005: Traded by the Boston Celtics (as a future 2006 1st round draft pick) with Tom Gugliotta, Gary Payton and Michael Stewart to the Atlanta Hawks for Antoine Walker.

August 19, 2005: Traded by the Atlanta Hawks (as a future 2006 1st round draft pick) with Boris Diaw and a 2008 1st round draft pick (Robin Lopez was later selected) to the Phoenix Suns for Joe Johnson.

June 28, 2006: Drafted by the Phoenix Suns in the 1st round (21st pick) of the 2006 NBA Draft.

June 28, 2006: Traded by the Phoenix Suns with Brian Grant to the Boston Celtics for a 2007 1st round draft pick (Rudy Fernandez was later selected).

I also recall that Ray was an expiring, but I don't see how that was relevant because Detroit was just beginning it's rebuilding process at that time, and, honestly, I don't remember Tayshaun Prince even being discussed as a part of that deal, but I'll look it up, anyway.  If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, lol. ;D Either way, though, adding Prince to such a trade still wouldn't have been nearly enough for Rondo, especially after he had come of the 09 postseason where he practically averaged a triple double over 14 games at age 22. :o

I just found this, btw, which is both hilarious and disappointing at the same time, lol. ;D

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/12/18/7418339/rajon-rondo-trade-rumors-history-celtics

I stand corrected about Prince.  TP for you, sir.  It still doesn't change my overall point, though, lol.
man that 2009 Memphis trade would have been awesome in retrospect.  Gay and Conley for Rondo and Scalabrine. 
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Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2014, 08:57:37 AM »

Offline Clench123

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I have heard a rather large number of absurd Rondo arguments and statements this week so I thought I should address them all and deal with them in one place. Feel free to add your own


Rondo was never that good a player: No actually he was. He was a 4 time all star and a 4 time all defensive player. His rivalry with Derrick Rose was epic at one point.  He was absolutely a great player. There are only two other players in NBA history to have 29,18, and 13 in a playoff game….Wilt and Oscar Robertson.

Rondo was a good player but isn’t any more/We are a better team without him:  Please explain how a bad point guard leads the league in assists and all pgs in rebounds and (I’m just guessing) trip dubs? Magic?  Many players have come back from injuries and Rondo is one of them. Now we have a situation where we'll win less rebounding battles and when players get open they won't get the ball.

Rondo’s shooting is a horrific problem:  Rondo’s shooting is unfortunate right now, but this is nothing new and somewhat understandable when a whole defense is aimed at stopping you when you are the best player on your team.  Rondo is well aware of his bad shooting, which is why he is PASS FIRST!  And just in case he misses his shot he REBOUNDS IT, which is something we all wish Jeff Green and KO would do a little more of.  This is a recent example of how good a passer Rondo is in making up for his lack of great shooting.   In the 2012-13 season Rondo ended the year in late January due to his ACL injury. He played 38 games that year. Here are the guys that he STILL had more assists than…..Ricky Rubio, Darren Collison, Jameer Nelson, John Wall, Ray Felton, Paul Pierce, Nate Robinson, George Hill, D Wade, Kyrie Irving, Steve Nash, Isaiah Thomas, Kirk Heinrich, Luke Ridnour, Brandon Knight, Mario Chalmers, Jason Kidd, Eric Bledsoe….when you see the stats you see lots of these guys playing like 28 minutes a game for like 75 games or something and they couldn’t do what Rondo did in 38, in some of the later cases missing him by over a 100 assists.  Rondo does with assists what guys like Russell or Wilt did with rebounding or blocking.

Rondo is a diva: Good. So was MJ and Bird and KG and lots of the best players. And there are some coach divas. The only people this is a problem for is the media, but for some reason when Bill Belichik does it they swoon over him. When Kobe or Bron do it they swoon over them. When Bird did it and MJ did it they swooned over them. But for some reason Rondo gets the hate. Secondly he still has a good relationship with Doc, which strongly implies his coaches at least find things to like about him. Perhaps his competitiveness or the way he has high standards.

Rondo is such a diva he was a bad leader, especially for such a young team: Really? Was he a bad leader when he was playing with a partially torn ACL? Was he such a bad leader when he was playing with a dislocated elbow and he got 11 assists and 4 points in the 4th quarter in the playoffs?
Was he such a bad leader when he became the first Celtic since Bird in 1986 to get two triple doubles in a playoff series? Or the first NBA player with three triple doubles in a series since J Kidd in 2002?

Rondo was definitely leaving in free agency so we just haaaaadddd to get sooommmeeethhhinnngg for him:  So many problems with this one. One is that it was unclear if he was leaving. He wanted to go through free agency. That’s how you get the biggest offer. It’s also how you find out what people think about you and if I were Rondo I would definitely want to know what people thought of me.  When Rondo went to free agency the first time did he leave? Did he make huge demands? No. He signed a team friendly long term deal. We had the most to offer him. We could show him the love the most. Doc Rivers was recently quoted as saying Rondo didn’t know what he wanted. Does that sound like a guy that wants to leave so bad? This is what Bird rights are for. It’s so you have the leverage, which we did. Use it. Say to the player “Fine. Go find a team you want to play for that wants you and will pay you what you want. We’ll have the biggest offer for you right here where the fans love you”.  You say to other teams “We’re gonna offer him more money than anyone and we like him a lot so if you want him you gotta pay for him”.  Didn’t anyone see Chris Moneymaker stare down Sammy Farha? Come on.  If you have some nice relic like a civil war rifle and you’re a bit down on your luck and your neighbor offers you $50 for it and you know it’s worth a grand you keep it. Or you put it on a ebay and if the offers aren’t good you keep it.  Keeping is a legit thing to do. Selling lower than Death Valley isn’t.  If he was so terrible than we could keep him for not a lot of money. If he was so good we should have gotten more for him.

Brandon Wright will be a good player. We need a shot blocker:  He’s a free agent at the end of the year just like Rondo and he’s Brandon Wright. This isn’t Dikembe Mutumbo we’re talking about here.

Marcus Smart is obviously going to be a great point guard: This is far from clear. He is also not such a great shooter. And he’s not as good a passer or rebounder.  He had the whole off season to improve his shot and it didn’t happen. He is a fine prospect but he is far from a sure thing.  He isn’t showing even 30% of what Victor Oladipo or MCW did last year.  Or Trey Burke. 

That pick from the Mavs could help us: What if the Mavs win the championship next year?  You just traded Rondo for JR Giddens. Good trade?  Oh. Maybe the pick will be in 20s? Hello Juwan Johnson or Fab Melo.  We could have gotten a pick at any point we traded him and we have like a trillion picks right now. We need elite players, not picks.

But we got a trade exception!
Great. Maybe we can trade for someone leading the league in assists and rebounds at their position known for superior toughness…oh ….wait.

Other GMs weren't offering anything for Rondo because they know he isn't very good: No. They didn't offer anything for him because they were cowardly and because they knew he would be a free agent at the end of the year and could walk. So finally a GM with guts stared Ainge down into giving him up for nothing. They all fell into the same trap as Ainge. The "Ooohhh nooooo! He coouuuldd walk away! And then I'd have nothing!" trap.  Either you try to get and keep the best players or you become some terrible team like Philly or the 90s Clippers. Shoulda tried to keep a great player and let the money come off the books if he left. Possibly still coulda done a sign and trade and gotten something if he left.

Point is….Rondo was and is an elite player at his position who puts up elite statistics, who might have signed here and that we could have gotten more for in a trade. Ainge got hosed.  Cuban is his daddy.

That is a great post and I agree with everything you said (TP).  Perhaps the reason I wanted him traded was because his style of play was never really in sync with Brad's system.  His leadership and commitment to the team did show as he tried to push the ball more and not be as ball dominant but he was still caught up in it at times.  He was the best player we had and we basically handed him to Dallas.  Disgusting. 

I always said when I left the Celtics, I could not go to heaven, because that would
 be a step down. I am pure 100 percent Celtic. I think if you slashed my wrists, my
 blood would’ve been green.  -  Bill "Greatest of All Time" Russell

Re: Addressing all the Rondo revisionism
« Reply #57 on: December 22, 2014, 07:20:50 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Also, I just saw Ian Thompson of SI on Sports Extra. For the record, he was happy with the Rondo return, but that isn't what intrigued me. He made a point that I hadn't considered or seen elsewhere.

Because his market was essentially limited to contenders, those teams aren't going to have much available to trade because they are good, which of course lowers their draft slot, and they obviously aren't going to want to give up too many of the good players that are making them good to begin with.

So combining the following factors:

-Expiring contract
-Lack of contenders in need of a PG
-Lack of contenders with available draft picks to trade
-Injury history

You begin to see how complicated any deal was going to be, without even mentioning the player's ability. These are factors that must be considered before even mentioning the polarizing nature of Rondo's game itself, or any character question marks (which I believe are completely overrated).

See, the problem with that is that people like Ian Thompson and Jackie Mac, etc., never liked Rondo.  Why?  I have no idea, but all I'm saying is that if they didn't like the guy, and have written articles and appeared on TV saying that he's not that great of a player, then why would they care what we got for him, as long as they find someone new in the locker room who will make their jobs easier? It's really quite immature and pathetic, especially from people of their stature, imo.

Yeah, make stuff up about people and then utilize it to lodge highly personal insults about them...excuse me, but who exactly is 'immature and pathetic' here?  Take a peek in the mirror, why don'cha?  ::)

1). Thanks (sarcasm)! ::)

2). How have I made any of this up?  You don't think that sportswriters are above having personal vendettas with athletes?  It's been pretty well established over the years that writers like Thompson and MacMullan have never liked Rondo, and yet, even another member of that group, Jeff Goodman, said that we got robbed.  I believe the analogy he used was that the Mavs found a rare, mint, painting at a garage sale, lol. 

Btw - don'cha, lol?  Are you a fan of the Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.cat dolls?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNSxNsr4wmA

Still, I sincerely apologize for my remarks.