Author Topic: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade  (Read 10483 times)

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Re: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2014, 06:07:02 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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The points of view on Rondo are in my opinion accurate and defensible but definitely on the negative end of the range of what could be considered as reality. It has only been one game but in that game, statistically, Rondo was about the same as he was here this season (and against the Spurs bench which no matter how you slice it is a pretty bad team by NBA standards).  I did not see the game but saw comments that he was playing more aggressive defense.

I also found the comments about Nelson interesting.  He was playing about 24 min and mostly just taking 3Pg shots (hitting I think around 37%).  That is a pretty limited role for Nelson.  He certainly has done more in the past but maybe that was the right role for him on that team.  It is certainly not a role that Rondo can assume though.

I guess my point is that if they had Nelson sitting in the corner staying out of the way because that was all they felt he could contribute, then Rondo can expand the role.  If they had him doing that because it was what was needed to give space to Ellis and Dirk, Rondo isn't going to be able to do that.
Based on that one game... Rondo was similar to his production in Boston... Dallas' offense was worse and less efficient.   Basing anything on one game is silly, but based on that one game alone, so far all the points made in this article are accurate.

Yeah, because a couple of their key guys in Dirk and Parsons both went, what, 3/13 from the floor?  How is it Rondo's fault if Dirk is missing his typical shots, as was stated last night?  Oh, never mind.  Why do I continue to do this to myself, lol? ;D Eff Obama.
Wonderful questions that time will answer for us.  Let's see if Dallas' spacing and efficiency continues to struggle with the addition of Rondo.

 ::)

Re: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2014, 06:10:25 PM »

Offline BballTim

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The points of view on Rondo are in my opinion accurate and defensible but definitely on the negative end of the range of what could be considered as reality. It has only been one game but in that game, statistically, Rondo was about the same as he was here this season (and against the Spurs bench which no matter how you slice it is a pretty bad team by NBA standards).  I did not see the game but saw comments that he was playing more aggressive defense.

I also found the comments about Nelson interesting.  He was playing about 24 min and mostly just taking 3Pg shots (hitting I think around 37%).  That is a pretty limited role for Nelson.  He certainly has done more in the past but maybe that was the right role for him on that team.  It is certainly not a role that Rondo can assume though.

I guess my point is that if they had Nelson sitting in the corner staying out of the way because that was all they felt he could contribute, then Rondo can expand the role.  If they had him doing that because it was what was needed to give space to Ellis and Dirk, Rondo isn't going to be able to do that.
Based on that one game... Rondo was similar to his production in Boston... Dallas' offense was worse and less efficient.   Basing anything on one game is silly, but based on that one game alone, so far all the points made in this article are accurate.

   That game, although played against a depleted roster, was (from what I've heard) the first game Dallas has won against a WC team that made the playoffs last year. That's probably much more the reason they made the trade than trying to improve their regular season offense.
Jury is out whether or not Rondo is going to help them beat the better teams.  Obviously last night didn't count.  The champ's top 8 guys didn't play.  That's like a team beating the Celtics right now and claiming they just beat the 2008 Champs.

  Sure, the jury's probably out until the playoffs roll around, but winning in the playoffs is why they made the trade. It will take a few games for Rondo to get in sync with his teammates but I'd guess their offense will be fine.

Re: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2014, 06:12:45 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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i've read the whole thing, and every single point made is true and reflects my opinion on rondo and this trade.
I agree with 90% of it... the only thing I don't particularly agree with is the idea that Rondo intentionally tanked his own trade value so that a team wouldn't have to give up major assets to get him.  That's conspiracy-level silliness. 

Everything else is sound science.

Agreed. Most of those comments are basketball-sound.
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Re: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2014, 07:10:06 PM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

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i've read the whole thing, and every single point made is true and reflects my opinion on rondo and this trade.
I agree with 90% of it... the only thing I don't particularly agree with is the idea that Rondo intentionally tanked his own trade value so that a team wouldn't have to give up major assets to get him.  That's conspiracy-level silliness. 

Everything else is sound science.

Agreed. Most of those comments are basketball-sound.

Slightly OT: It's interesting to see this year's draft called "next year's draft" because the regular season and playoffs are something to actually look forward to. Miss those days.

I think Rondo needs to have a very specific role assigned to him in order to succeed on this Dal team. I can see him having the black hole effect that some on this board have attributed to him for a while now.

Re: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2014, 07:20:28 PM »

Offline danglertx

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The points of view on Rondo are in my opinion accurate and defensible but definitely on the negative end of the range of what could be considered as reality. It has only been one game but in that game, statistically, Rondo was about the same as he was here this season (and against the Spurs bench which no matter how you slice it is a pretty bad team by NBA standards).  I did not see the game but saw comments that he was playing more aggressive defense.

I also found the comments about Nelson interesting.  He was playing about 24 min and mostly just taking 3Pg shots (hitting I think around 37%).  That is a pretty limited role for Nelson.  He certainly has done more in the past but maybe that was the right role for him on that team.  It is certainly not a role that Rondo can assume though.

I guess my point is that if they had Nelson sitting in the corner staying out of the way because that was all they felt he could contribute, then Rondo can expand the role.  If they had him doing that because it was what was needed to give space to Ellis and Dirk, Rondo isn't going to be able to do that.
Based on that one game... Rondo was similar to his production in Boston... Dallas' offense was worse and less efficient.   Basing anything on one game is silly, but based on that one game alone, so far all the points made in this article are accurate.

Based on that one game, Dallas is going undefeated the rest of the way and winning a championship. 

I did watch the game since I live in Ft. Worth and Rondo seemed to be pressing.  He needs to get to know this new group a little better and Dirk was horrendous, I doubt that continues.

Re: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2014, 08:03:56 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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One thing I've learned about numbers during my 45 years on earth is that they can be twisted to suit a purpose.

That being said, Greg Popovich is concerned right now.

We'll see who's left standing in June.

My guess is that it's Dirk and Co.

Re: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2014, 08:10:07 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  Is there any evidence the guy knows at all what he's talking about? First of all, he doesn't seem to understand that assists don't count towards usage rates. Also, "What Rondo does is pass the ball a lot to guys who take bad or contested shots" isn't really accurate. It's just a regurgitation of claims by people who don't really like Rondo and (also) don't really know what they're talking about.

  In addition to not knowing what usage is and probably not having seen Rondo play much, he also claims that Rondo, being a better player than Nelson, will get more minutes than Jameer, which will hurt the team's depth because the backup guards won't play as much. Hilarious.

Re: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2014, 08:30:29 PM »

Offline incoherent

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In this thread: Larbrd33 continues his relentless attack on Rondo to the Mavs, as he desperately tries to prove to all of us that it was bad for the Mavs.  Going as far as to quote the opinion of other teams fans to give his opinion credibility.


My advice to OP: Drop it. You've really gone to great lengths to make sure we all know You Dislike this trade for the Mavs.  Let them play the games and we'll see.. no reason to keep beating a dead horse.


Re: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2014, 08:58:49 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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So why do we care what Spurs fans think of the Mavs? We're Celtics. Sad to see Rondo go, but we move on. I bleed Green, besides... Rondo can compliment most players especially in transition... Dirk/Parsons missed a lot of shots due to a lack of not being used to Rondo's passing.
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Re: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2014, 09:03:05 PM »

Offline sed522002

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So why do we care what Spurs fans think of the Mavs? We're Celtics. Sad to see Rondo go, but we move on. I bleed Green, besides... Rondo can compliment most players especially in transition... Dirk/Parsons missed a lot of shots due to a lack of not being used to Rondo's passing.

All of my sentiments. That's like us caring about what the Knicks thought of PP and KG going to the Nets. I'm sure there were many posters that discredited the players and the move..oh well, who cares, not our business.lol.

Re: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2014, 11:20:41 PM »

Offline Blaze4G

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The points of view on Rondo are in my opinion accurate and defensible but definitely on the negative end of the range of what could be considered as reality. It has only been one game but in that game, statistically, Rondo was about the same as he was here this season (and against the Spurs bench which no matter how you slice it is a pretty bad team by NBA standards).  I did not see the game but saw comments that he was playing more aggressive defense.

I also found the comments about Nelson interesting.  He was playing about 24 min and mostly just taking 3Pg shots (hitting I think around 37%).  That is a pretty limited role for Nelson.  He certainly has done more in the past but maybe that was the right role for him on that team.  It is certainly not a role that Rondo can assume though.

I guess my point is that if they had Nelson sitting in the corner staying out of the way because that was all they felt he could contribute, then Rondo can expand the role.  If they had him doing that because it was what was needed to give space to Ellis and Dirk, Rondo isn't going to be able to do that.
Based on that one game... Rondo was similar to his production in Boston... Dallas' offense was worse and less efficient.   Basing anything on one game is silly, but based on that one game alone, so far all the points made in this article are accurate.

   That game, although played against a depleted roster, was (from what I've heard) the first game Dallas has won against a WC team that made the playoffs last year. That's probably much more the reason they made the trade than trying to improve their regular season offense.
Jury is out whether or not Rondo is going to help them beat the better teams.  Obviously last night didn't count.  The champ's top 8 guys didn't play.  That's like a team beating the Celtics right now and claiming they just beat the 2008 Champs.

Since you like using one game to make judgements. How did the Celtics look tonight? I recalled you saying how much better the Celtics look without Rondo against Timberwolves. Well, hey there, the Heat were without Lebron obviously, Dwade and Bosh. Yet the Celtics got destroyed. Oh but you still think the Celtics looks better without Rondo? HAHA. Dont you dare give me any excuse about this just being one game either  ::)

Re: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2014, 11:27:17 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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  Is there any evidence the guy knows at all what he's talking about? First of all, he doesn't seem to understand that assists don't count towards usage rates. Also, "What Rondo does is pass the ball a lot to guys who take bad or contested shots" isn't really accurate. It's just a regurgitation of claims by people who don't really like Rondo and (also) don't really know what they're talking about.

  In addition to not knowing what usage is and probably not having seen Rondo play much, he also claims that Rondo, being a better player than Nelson, will get more minutes than Jameer, which will hurt the team's depth because the backup guards won't play as much. Hilarious.

lol yeah that's a joke


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Re: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2014, 11:40:18 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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The points of view on Rondo are in my opinion accurate and defensible but definitely on the negative end of the range of what could be considered as reality. It has only been one game but in that game, statistically, Rondo was about the same as he was here this season (and against the Spurs bench which no matter how you slice it is a pretty bad team by NBA standards).  I did not see the game but saw comments that he was playing more aggressive defense.

I also found the comments about Nelson interesting.  He was playing about 24 min and mostly just taking 3Pg shots (hitting I think around 37%).  That is a pretty limited role for Nelson.  He certainly has done more in the past but maybe that was the right role for him on that team.  It is certainly not a role that Rondo can assume though.

I guess my point is that if they had Nelson sitting in the corner staying out of the way because that was all they felt he could contribute, then Rondo can expand the role.  If they had him doing that because it was what was needed to give space to Ellis and Dirk, Rondo isn't going to be able to do that.
Based on that one game... Rondo was similar to his production in Boston... Dallas' offense was worse and less efficient.   Basing anything on one game is silly, but based on that one game alone, so far all the points made in this article are accurate.

   That game, although played against a depleted roster, was (from what I've heard) the first game Dallas has won against a WC team that made the playoffs last year. That's probably much more the reason they made the trade than trying to improve their regular season offense.
Jury is out whether or not Rondo is going to help them beat the better teams.  Obviously last night didn't count.  The champ's top 8 guys didn't play.  That's like a team beating the Celtics right now and claiming they just beat the 2008 Champs.

Since you like using one game to make judgements. How did the Celtics look tonight? I recalled you saying how much better the Celtics look without Rondo against Timberwolves. Well, hey there, the Heat were without Lebron obviously, Dwade and Bosh. Yet the Celtics got destroyed. Oh but you still think the Celtics looks better without Rondo? HAHA. Dont you dare give me any excuse about this just being one game either  ::)
::::))

I'm basing jack squat on one game, Blazey3g

Dallas was a good team prior to the trade... should be a good team after the trade.
Boston was a bad team prior to the trade... should be a bad team after the trade.

Rondo makes little to no impact on either situation.  If anything, he'll make Dallas worse and we'll be a little better without him.  Thanks.  Let me know if i need to repeat this for you another hundred times, I can PM you instead so everyone else doesn't have to plod through me saying it over and over.

My apologies if while careering through this forum with blinders on, you misinterpreted my commentary to mean that Boston was going to be a championship caliber team without Rondo and that Dallas was going to finish with 12 wins.  That wasn't at all what I was suggesting.  Boston will be a 25-30 win team regardless of that move... that's why Ainge made it.  Dallas will still be solid because they have Dirk... but I disagree with the idea that they will be making a leap with the addition of Rondo.  It doesn't jibe with what we know about Rondo and the Dallas offense.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 11:45:53 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2014, 11:53:44 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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In this thread: Larbrd33 continues his relentless attack on Rondo to the Mavs
Come on...

A lot of people here are in "sky is falling" mode.  I'm sharing a perspective that suggests, "hey... Ainge actually knows what he's doing.  Rondo is overrated... calm down"...

It's not an "attack"... it's not me being a "hater".  There's some logical reasons to believe that Boston will be fine without Rondo.  There's some logical reasons to believe that Dallas might have made themselves worse.    I've been saying it since the trade went down.  This Spurs blogger says the same thing.  Grantland's Zach Lowe says the same thing:  http://grantland.com/the-triangle/rajon-rondo-trade-dallas-mavericks/  ... In fact, most advanced-analytics sites seem to think the deal was solid for Boston.

But I mean, this is nothing new.  I was labelled a hater when I told people there was no way Detroit would give up Drummond for Rondo.  I tried to explain that Rondo didn't have trade value... that the league was loaded with point guards and Rondo wasn't a very desirable commodity.  I've been saying for a while now that we were going to need to get rid of Rondo or watch him walk for nothing.  I was bashed for being a "hater" right up until I was proven correct and Rondo was traded for a late 1st.  Not saying "I told you so"... just saying, let it be a lesson to not dismiss commentary from your fellow fans that doesn't necessarily fit with your views.  We're all wrong from time to time.  Here's hoping I (as well as several others like Zach Lowe and this Spurs blogger) are right about Rondo impact on the game.  ;) 

Re: Spurs Blog Opinion of Rondo Trade
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2014, 12:09:24 AM »

Online Who

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Quote
If I'm a Mavs fan I would've preferred to trade for a stretch four in the Robert Horry/Boris Diaw mold, someone who can space the floor, rebound, defend, push Dirk Nowitzki to the three, Chandler Parsons to the two and Ellis to the point.

Instead of acquiring Rondo, the author thinks the Mavs would have been better of getting a stretch four and moving the 36 year old Dirk Nowitzki to small forward ... (crickets)

This is his solution to fixing the Mavs defensive problems in frontcourt. Dirk at SF = Solution to defensive problems.

Quote
Honestly I'm surprised that Rick Carlisle signed off on this, but I guess that's why he's the coach and I'm writing about the deal at McDonald's.