Author Topic: Doc on Rondo trade  (Read 13477 times)

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Re: Doc on Rondo trade
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2014, 04:49:18 PM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

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I Blame all of this on the Ping Pong Balls....Screw Cleveland.

Truly there has never been a less deserving management group than that one. Luck into LBJ, squander something like 7 years never putting a competent team around him, sucking for 4 straight years only to once again luck into 3 number one overall picks and K-Love and LBJ again.

lol....You actually think that was "luck"?  The messiah is pretty much co-comissioner of the NBA.

Re: Doc on Rondo trade
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2014, 04:52:52 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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I Blame all of this on the Ping Pong Balls....Screw Cleveland.

Truly there has never been a less deserving management group than that one. Luck into LBJ, squander something like 7 years never putting a competent team around him, sucking for 4 straight years only to once again luck into 3 number one overall picks and K-Love and LBJ again.

lol....You actually think that was "luck"?  The messiah is pretty much co-comissioner of the NBA.

Don't forget getting #1 for Kyrie Irving the year after LeBron left (with the 8th best odds if I recall). Whether it was all "luck" or luck, they didn't deserve it either way with the way they managed the team.

Re: Doc on Rondo trade
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2014, 05:06:23 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Yep, all of this tells me there was no way we were going to resign him this summer, and I'm betting that got out and made the trade offers less and less.

But if Rondo was worried that another title wouldn't be coming his way if he stayed in Boston, he has to realize that his particular skill set would contribute to that fact. He's not a plug-and-play player, so very exact and precise circumstances and players would have to be involved for him to lead us to #18.

  Yes, for Rondo to succeed he needed players that had almost identical offensive games. Kind of like Ray or AB as t your shooting guard, or Perk or Shaq or Bass as one of your starting bigs. It's that exact and precise.

Hey man, how do you feel about Rondo leaving?

  Bummed about what it says about the near term future of the Celts. There wasn't really a reason to trade him if you were going to upgrade the talent around him, no reason to keep him if you didn't expect to in any reasonable amount of time. I think this means that we're in for a long rebuild. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Or maybe Ainge and Wyc don't think he's as good as you do.

  You wouldn't know one way or the other, but then that doesn't stop the rest of your posts either.

Re: Doc on Rondo trade
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2014, 05:12:32 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Yep, all of this tells me there was no way we were going to resign him this summer, and I'm betting that got out and made the trade offers less and less.

But if Rondo was worried that another title wouldn't be coming his way if he stayed in Boston, he has to realize that his particular skill set would contribute to that fact. He's not a plug-and-play player, so very exact and precise circumstances and players would have to be involved for him to lead us to #18.

  Yes, for Rondo to succeed he needed players that had almost identical offensive games. Kind of like Ray or AB as t your shooting guard, or Perk or Shaq or Bass as one of your starting bigs. It's that exact and precise.

Hey man, how do you feel about Rondo leaving?

  Bummed about what it says about the near term future of the Celts. There wasn't really a reason to trade him if you were going to upgrade the talent around him, no reason to keep him if you didn't expect to in any reasonable amount of time. I think this means that we're in for a long rebuild. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Welcome back, Tim.

Yes... we are in for a long rebuild.  That's been clear since we traded KG and Pierce.  We're in year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild that may or may not work.

Ainge tried his darndest to get some talent here this summer, but when it was clear our assets had little value, we had to do what has been inevitable for several years... trade Rondo for whatever we could get or watch him leave for nothing.

  What exactly is "year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild that may or may not work" mean? They're in rebuild until they're contending again. I doubt they're putting any time limit on it at the moment. And "Ainge tried his darndest to get some talent here this summer" pretty much means it wasn't cleat we were in for a long rebuild when we traded PP and KG.

Re: Doc on Rondo trade
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2014, 05:18:36 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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Yep, all of this tells me there was no way we were going to resign him this summer, and I'm betting that got out and made the trade offers less and less.

But if Rondo was worried that another title wouldn't be coming his way if he stayed in Boston, he has to realize that his particular skill set would contribute to that fact. He's not a plug-and-play player, so very exact and precise circumstances and players would have to be involved for him to lead us to #18.

  Yes, for Rondo to succeed he needed players that had almost identical offensive games. Kind of like Ray or AB as t your shooting guard, or Perk or Shaq or Bass as one of your starting bigs. It's that exact and precise.

Hey man, how do you feel about Rondo leaving?

  Bummed about what it says about the near term future of the Celts. There wasn't really a reason to trade him if you were going to upgrade the talent around him, no reason to keep him if you didn't expect to in any reasonable amount of time. I think this means that we're in for a long rebuild. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Welcome back, Tim.

Yes... we are in for a long rebuild.  That's been clear since we traded KG and Pierce.  We're in year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild that may or may not work.

Ainge tried his darndest to get some talent here this summer, but when it was clear our assets had little value, we had to do what has been inevitable for several years... trade Rondo for whatever we could get or watch him leave for nothing.

  What exactly is "year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild that may or may not work" mean? They're in rebuild until they're contending again. I doubt they're putting any time limit on it at the moment. And "Ainge tried his darndest to get some talent here this summer" pretty much means it wasn't cleat we were in for a long rebuild when we traded PP and KG.

He isn't putting a time limit on it. It's a realistic goal of when we'd expect the assets we currently have to mature (either by development or trade) into legitimate players. I'd say year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuilding plan is pretty much exactly where Ainge is at, only it's probably closer to 5 years and "plan" has too much of a structured definition to describe what we're doing.


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Re: Doc on Rondo trade
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2014, 05:23:42 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Yep, all of this tells me there was no way we were going to resign him this summer, and I'm betting that got out and made the trade offers less and less.

But if Rondo was worried that another title wouldn't be coming his way if he stayed in Boston, he has to realize that his particular skill set would contribute to that fact. He's not a plug-and-play player, so very exact and precise circumstances and players would have to be involved for him to lead us to #18.

  Yes, for Rondo to succeed he needed players that had almost identical offensive games. Kind of like Ray or AB as t your shooting guard, or Perk or Shaq or Bass as one of your starting bigs. It's that exact and precise.

Hey man, how do you feel about Rondo leaving?

  Bummed about what it says about the near term future of the Celts. There wasn't really a reason to trade him if you were going to upgrade the talent around him, no reason to keep him if you didn't expect to in any reasonable amount of time. I think this means that we're in for a long rebuild. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Welcome back, Tim.

Yes... we are in for a long rebuild.  That's been clear since we traded KG and Pierce.  We're in year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild that may or may not work.

Ainge tried his darndest to get some talent here this summer, but when it was clear our assets had little value, we had to do what has been inevitable for several years... trade Rondo for whatever we could get or watch him leave for nothing.

  What exactly is "year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild that may or may not work" mean? They're in rebuild until they're contending again. I doubt they're putting any time limit on it at the moment. And "Ainge tried his darndest to get some talent here this summer" pretty much means it wasn't cleat we were in for a long rebuild when we traded PP and KG.

He isn't putting a time limit on it. It's a realistic goal of when we'd expect the assets we currently have to mature (either by development or trade) into legitimate players. I'd say year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuilding plan is pretty much exactly where Ainge is at, only it's probably closer to 5 years and "plan" has too much of a structured definition to describe what we're doing.

  So you're saying that Ainge is fairly confident that he'll have enough talent on the roster to be a contending team 3 years from now? Or that you are?

Re: Doc on Rondo trade
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2014, 05:30:46 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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Yep, all of this tells me there was no way we were going to resign him this summer, and I'm betting that got out and made the trade offers less and less.

But if Rondo was worried that another title wouldn't be coming his way if he stayed in Boston, he has to realize that his particular skill set would contribute to that fact. He's not a plug-and-play player, so very exact and precise circumstances and players would have to be involved for him to lead us to #18.

  Yes, for Rondo to succeed he needed players that had almost identical offensive games. Kind of like Ray or AB as t your shooting guard, or Perk or Shaq or Bass as one of your starting bigs. It's that exact and precise.

Hey man, how do you feel about Rondo leaving?

  Bummed about what it says about the near term future of the Celts. There wasn't really a reason to trade him if you were going to upgrade the talent around him, no reason to keep him if you didn't expect to in any reasonable amount of time. I think this means that we're in for a long rebuild. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Welcome back, Tim.

Yes... we are in for a long rebuild.  That's been clear since we traded KG and Pierce.  We're in year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild that may or may not work.

Ainge tried his darndest to get some talent here this summer, but when it was clear our assets had little value, we had to do what has been inevitable for several years... trade Rondo for whatever we could get or watch him leave for nothing.

  What exactly is "year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild that may or may not work" mean? They're in rebuild until they're contending again. I doubt they're putting any time limit on it at the moment. And "Ainge tried his darndest to get some talent here this summer" pretty much means it wasn't cleat we were in for a long rebuild when we traded PP and KG.

He isn't putting a time limit on it. It's a realistic goal of when we'd expect the assets we currently have to mature (either by development or trade) into legitimate players. I'd say year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuilding plan is pretty much exactly where Ainge is at, only it's probably closer to 5 years and "plan" has too much of a structured definition to describe what we're doing.

  So you're saying that Ainge is fairly confident that he'll have enough talent on the roster to be a contending team 3 years from now? Or that you are?

As I alluded to, it's much more of a liberal definition of "plan" than one might expect a professional GM would have. Danny is purely in asset-collection mode right now as has been said many times. He will remain value-driven until he believes he has enough assets to at least make the playoffs without luck involved (i.e. a 5th seed vs. an 8th seed that barely got in), whether it be by nature of one of his picks completing the star-transformation, or trading his potential-laden assets for that star. It's irrelevant to ask me whether or not I think Ainge is confident that he'll be at that point in three years because we all know I don't have the knowledge to answer that question. I would say if Ainge continues to generate value as well as he has over the past year and half, three years down the road doesn't sound like an unrealistic goal to me.


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Re: Doc on Rondo trade
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2014, 04:55:48 PM »

Offline thirstyboots18

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How was Rondo torn two weeks ago about leaving when he had already told them he wanted out this summer? Chalk it up to Doc spinning things I guess.  ;)
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Re: Doc on Rondo trade
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2014, 04:59:52 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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Quote
Rivers talked to Rondo two weeks ago, and sensed the conflict.

“I know for a fact that Rondo was torn,” said Rivers. “When we talked he was completely torn. He wanted to be a Celtic for life. But he didn’t see any more titles coming if he stayed. He’s very happy now to go to a great situation. But at the time we talked, he didn’t know what he wanted.

“It was just a tough, tough call.”


So that pretty much means Rondo didn't believe in whatever plan Ainge had laid out for him? I see this as a pretty big indictment on Ainge, Rondo didn't think we'd win again even if he played for us the entire rest of his career? Wow.
I think the presence of Marcus Smart effected Rondo's perspective on the future in Boston. I think it also became clear to Rondo that the years we will compete, he will be entering his 30's and on the back side of his career. At which point Smart will be entering his prime.

I actually think this is the case. I always pictured Smart as a SG next to Rondo, but the way they have been playing, I think Smart is better off playing PG, and I think that was a threat to Rondo. As you said, by the time we are "good", Rondo will be in his 30s while Smart will be in his prime

Re: Doc on Rondo trade
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2014, 05:01:32 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Yep, all of this tells me there was no way we were going to resign him this summer, and I'm betting that got out and made the trade offers less and less.

But if Rondo was worried that another title wouldn't be coming his way if he stayed in Boston, he has to realize that his particular skill set would contribute to that fact. He's not a plug-and-play player, so very exact and precise circumstances and players would have to be involved for him to lead us to #18.

  Yes, for Rondo to succeed he needed players that had almost identical offensive games. Kind of like Ray or AB as t your shooting guard, or Perk or Shaq or Bass as one of your starting bigs. It's that exact and precise.

Hey man, how do you feel about Rondo leaving?

  Bummed about what it says about the near term future of the Celts. There wasn't really a reason to trade him if you were going to upgrade the talent around him, no reason to keep him if you didn't expect to in any reasonable amount of time. I think this means that we're in for a long rebuild. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Welcome back, Tim.

Yes... we are in for a long rebuild.  That's been clear since we traded KG and Pierce.  We're in year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild that may or may not work.

Ainge tried his darndest to get some talent here this summer, but when it was clear our assets had little value, we had to do what has been inevitable for several years... trade Rondo for whatever we could get or watch him leave for nothing.

  What exactly is "year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild that may or may not work" mean? They're in rebuild until they're contending again. I doubt they're putting any time limit on it at the moment. And "Ainge tried his darndest to get some talent here this summer" pretty much means it wasn't cleat we were in for a long rebuild when we traded PP and KG.

He isn't putting a time limit on it. It's a realistic goal of when we'd expect the assets we currently have to mature (either by development or trade) into legitimate players. I'd say year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuilding plan is pretty much exactly where Ainge is at, only it's probably closer to 5 years and "plan" has too much of a structured definition to describe what we're doing.

  So you're saying that Ainge is fairly confident that he'll have enough talent on the roster to be a contending team 3 years from now? Or that you are?
i don't think anyone is "confident" of that. rather, i believe people are saying that the goal is to have enough talent assembled in 5 years that the celtics can seriously think of themselves as going deep into the playoffs or the championship.
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Re: Doc on Rondo trade
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2014, 05:49:04 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Yep, all of this tells me there was no way we were going to resign him this summer, and I'm betting that got out and made the trade offers less and less.

But if Rondo was worried that another title wouldn't be coming his way if he stayed in Boston, he has to realize that his particular skill set would contribute to that fact. He's not a plug-and-play player, so very exact and precise circumstances and players would have to be involved for him to lead us to #18.

  Yes, for Rondo to succeed he needed players that had almost identical offensive games. Kind of like Ray or AB as t your shooting guard, or Perk or Shaq or Bass as one of your starting bigs. It's that exact and precise.

Hey man, how do you feel about Rondo leaving?

  Bummed about what it says about the near term future of the Celts. There wasn't really a reason to trade him if you were going to upgrade the talent around him, no reason to keep him if you didn't expect to in any reasonable amount of time. I think this means that we're in for a long rebuild. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Or maybe Ainge and Wyc don't think he's as good as you do.

  You wouldn't know one way or the other, but then that doesn't stop the rest of your posts either.

Well, he's actually right considering how highly you think of Rondo. You've gone at lengths about him being one of the top 10 players in the NBA so obviously if Ainge and Wyc believed that to be remotely true they would've never done the deal. Unless you've changed your stance and now think he's a top 40-50 player/top 10 pg, in which case then he's not worth the max and the return was fair.

Re: Doc on Rondo trade
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2014, 06:39:40 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Yep, all of this tells me there was no way we were going to resign him this summer, and I'm betting that got out and made the trade offers less and less.

But if Rondo was worried that another title wouldn't be coming his way if he stayed in Boston, he has to realize that his particular skill set would contribute to that fact. He's not a plug-and-play player, so very exact and precise circumstances and players would have to be involved for him to lead us to #18.

  Yes, for Rondo to succeed he needed players that had almost identical offensive games. Kind of like Ray or AB as t your shooting guard, or Perk or Shaq or Bass as one of your starting bigs. It's that exact and precise.

Hey man, how do you feel about Rondo leaving?

  Bummed about what it says about the near term future of the Celts. There wasn't really a reason to trade him if you were going to upgrade the talent around him, no reason to keep him if you didn't expect to in any reasonable amount of time. I think this means that we're in for a long rebuild. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Or maybe Ainge and Wyc don't think he's as good as you do.

  You wouldn't know one way or the other, but then that doesn't stop the rest of your posts either.

Well, he's actually right considering how highly you think of Rondo. You've gone at lengths about him being one of the top 10 players in the NBA so obviously if Ainge and Wyc believed that to be remotely true they would've never done the deal. Unless you've changed your stance and now think he's a top 40-50 player/top 10 pg, in which case then he's not worth the max and the return was fair.

  I don't think you could find much of what I've posted that's much different than what Danny and Wyc have consistently said about Rondo. That doesn't account for you or Bo's hyperbolic nonsense, but such is life on celticsblog.

Re: Doc on Rondo trade
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2014, 06:46:54 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Yep, all of this tells me there was no way we were going to resign him this summer, and I'm betting that got out and made the trade offers less and less.

But if Rondo was worried that another title wouldn't be coming his way if he stayed in Boston, he has to realize that his particular skill set would contribute to that fact. He's not a plug-and-play player, so very exact and precise circumstances and players would have to be involved for him to lead us to #18.

  Yes, for Rondo to succeed he needed players that had almost identical offensive games. Kind of like Ray or AB as t your shooting guard, or Perk or Shaq or Bass as one of your starting bigs. It's that exact and precise.

Hey man, how do you feel about Rondo leaving?

  Bummed about what it says about the near term future of the Celts. There wasn't really a reason to trade him if you were going to upgrade the talent around him, no reason to keep him if you didn't expect to in any reasonable amount of time. I think this means that we're in for a long rebuild. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Welcome back, Tim.

Yes... we are in for a long rebuild.  That's been clear since we traded KG and Pierce.  We're in year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild that may or may not work.

Ainge tried his darndest to get some talent here this summer, but when it was clear our assets had little value, we had to do what has been inevitable for several years... trade Rondo for whatever we could get or watch him leave for nothing.

  What exactly is "year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild that may or may not work" mean? They're in rebuild until they're contending again. I doubt they're putting any time limit on it at the moment. And "Ainge tried his darndest to get some talent here this summer" pretty much means it wasn't cleat we were in for a long rebuild when we traded PP and KG.

He isn't putting a time limit on it. It's a realistic goal of when we'd expect the assets we currently have to mature (either by development or trade) into legitimate players. I'd say year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuilding plan is pretty much exactly where Ainge is at, only it's probably closer to 5 years and "plan" has too much of a structured definition to describe what we're doing.
Agreed.   I don't think there's some master blueprint.  I think when you blow up a team and decide to build around prospects and picks, the hope is that you'll turn it around in 3-5 years.  The Thunder didn't make the playoffs until Durant's 3rd year.  Finals in his 5th.   Cavs didn't make the playoffs until LeBron's 3rd year... Finals in his 5th.

Of course, seeing as we don't have any transcendent talent on this team, it's more likely that we'll be waiting longer than 5 years for this team to become relevant again.  This summer should be crucial.  We have a lot of irons in the fire for 2016 as well.  We could see this team back to being relevant sooner.

Ainge took over in 2003... about 4 years later he had put together a contender.  We are in year 2 of the rebuild... gonna take time.  Ainge tried his best to fast-track it this summer, but anyone looking at this roster could tell we didn't yet have the assets to get it done. 

Re: Doc on Rondo trade
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2014, 07:14:43 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Yep, all of this tells me there was no way we were going to resign him this summer, and I'm betting that got out and made the trade offers less and less.

But if Rondo was worried that another title wouldn't be coming his way if he stayed in Boston, he has to realize that his particular skill set would contribute to that fact. He's not a plug-and-play player, so very exact and precise circumstances and players would have to be involved for him to lead us to #18.

  Yes, for Rondo to succeed he needed players that had almost identical offensive games. Kind of like Ray or AB as t your shooting guard, or Perk or Shaq or Bass as one of your starting bigs. It's that exact and precise.

Hey man, how do you feel about Rondo leaving?

  Bummed about what it says about the near term future of the Celts. There wasn't really a reason to trade him if you were going to upgrade the talent around him, no reason to keep him if you didn't expect to in any reasonable amount of time. I think this means that we're in for a long rebuild. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Or maybe Ainge and Wyc don't think he's as good as you do.

  You wouldn't know one way or the other, but then that doesn't stop the rest of your posts either.

Well, he's actually right considering how highly you think of Rondo. You've gone at lengths about him being one of the top 10 players in the NBA so obviously if Ainge and Wyc believed that to be remotely true they would've never done the deal. Unless you've changed your stance and now think he's a top 40-50 player/top 10 pg, in which case then he's not worth the max and the return was fair.

  I don't think you could find much of what I've posted that's much different than what Danny and Wyc have consistently said about Rondo. That doesn't account for you or Bo's hyperbolic nonsense, but such is life on celticsblog.

You ever heard the adage "actions speak louder than words"? After the recent trade you still can't possibly believe that they think of him as highly as you do, right?

Re: Doc on Rondo trade
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2014, 07:25:26 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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What they actually think of him has nothing to do with the fact that this was, probably, the best set of assets on the table.
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