Author Topic: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.  (Read 10730 times)

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Re: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2014, 04:14:26 PM »

Online jpotter33

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I think you need to lower your expectations.

Celtics entering the long slow rebuild. Not top level stars are coming here for awhile.

Guys go where the money is, especially when they haven't yet signed a big deal.  That's why tanking isn't the only option.  Greg Monroe is not going to sign with the Spurs for the minimum just because he wants to win.

Mike

Guys go where the money is when nobody else is offering comparable money.

When comparable money is offered, free agents go to best situation. That is not the Celtics.

But who says the C's aren't the best option for someone like Monroe? He'd be the primary offensive option here, and he'd have the chance to grow with several young prospects. And to be honest, if you want to win why would you leave the weak East to go the incredibly difficult West?

I generally agree with you on the top-level stars that they won't be signing here, but someone like Monroe is a different situation I think.

Re: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2014, 04:16:50 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Add Rondo to the list of free agent targets.   Cuz, why not?

If you guys thought we could re-sign Rondo this summer... there's no reason to believe we can't sign him as a free agent.  We did him a favor this season... sent him to Dallas for a half season while we acquired additional pieces to help the rebuild. 

Re: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2014, 04:19:54 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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I think you need to lower your expectations.

Celtics entering the long slow rebuild. Not top level stars are coming here for awhile.

Guys go where the money is, especially when they haven't yet signed a big deal.  That's why tanking isn't the only option.  Greg Monroe is not going to sign with the Spurs for the minimum just because he wants to win.

Mike

Guys go where the money is when nobody else is offering comparable money.

When comparable money is offered, free agents go to best situation. That is not the Celtics.

Trading Rondo eliminated whatever minimal chance there was at attracting a top level free agent.  Our best hope is that Brooklyn implodes and we get real lucky in the draft.

Bullsh....

Except it's not cow manure.

Even though Rondo hasn't been as good as he was, he still has built a reputation of being a star, and stars have pull into attracting other stars. He may not have the same pull as the top players right now, but he has more of a pull than Jeff Green, Jared Sullinger or Brad Stevens.

It also doesnt help that Danny Ainge seems to be the kind of GM who would trade anyone at anytime. It will be hard for someone to commit here knowing that established names will still be dealt. Some of the trades Danny made helped us, but you cant get that stigma out.

No top tier FA would be enticed into playing for a rebuilding team, unless the money offer is too much to reject (and that's a long shot at best).
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2014, 04:19:54 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I will be surprised unless somehow Aldridge or Durant signs here that Danny will make alot of effort or overpay for FA's

He has draft picks instead to bring in players .  He has CBS to help out with the draft (which college players can excel in the nba, which one he likes for his system) .  Then he will do what he does best, which is develop players.   

KO, Smart, Young are three guys CBS liked

Re: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2014, 04:21:54 PM »

Offline Chris22

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I think you need to lower your expectations.

Celtics entering the long slow rebuild. Not top level stars are coming here for awhile.

Guys go where the money is, especially when they haven't yet signed a big deal.  That's why tanking isn't the only option.  Greg Monroe is not going to sign with the Spurs for the minimum just because he wants to win.

Mike

Guys go where the money is when nobody else is offering comparable money.

When comparable money is offered, free agents go to best situation. That is not the Celtics.

Trading Rondo eliminated whatever minimal chance there was at attracting a top level free agent.  Our best hope is that Brooklyn implodes and we get real lucky in the draft.

Bullsh....

Except it's not cow manure.

Even though Rondo hasn't been as good as he was, he still has built a reputation of being a star, and stars have pull into attracting other stars. He may not have the same pull as the top players right now, but he has more of a pull than Jeff Green, Jared Sullinger or Brad Stevens.

It also doesnt help that Danny Ainge seems to be the kind of GM who would trade anyone at anytime. It will be hard for someone to commit here knowing that established names will still be dealt. Some of the trades Danny made helped us, but you cant get that stigma out.

No top tier FA would be enticed into playing for a rebuilding team, unless the money offer is too much to reject (and that's a long shot at best).

No one can predict the future.

Ainge traded a pick we got for Juri Welsch into Ray Allen which brought us Kevin Garnett.

Re: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2014, 04:28:20 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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I think you need to lower your expectations.

Celtics entering the long slow rebuild. Not top level stars are coming here for awhile.

Guys go where the money is, especially when they haven't yet signed a big deal.  That's why tanking isn't the only option.  Greg Monroe is not going to sign with the Spurs for the minimum just because he wants to win.

Mike

Guys go where the money is when nobody else is offering comparable money.

When comparable money is offered, free agents go to best situation. That is not the Celtics.

Trading Rondo eliminated whatever minimal chance there was at attracting a top level free agent.  Our best hope is that Brooklyn implodes and we get real lucky in the draft.

Bullsh....

Except it's not cow manure.

Even though Rondo hasn't been as good as he was, he still has built a reputation of being a star, and stars have pull into attracting other stars. He may not have the same pull as the top players right now, but he has more of a pull than Jeff Green, Jared Sullinger or Brad Stevens.

It also doesnt help that Danny Ainge seems to be the kind of GM who would trade anyone at anytime. It will be hard for someone to commit here knowing that established names will still be dealt. Some of the trades Danny made helped us, but you cant get that stigma out.

No top tier FA would be enticed into playing for a rebuilding team, unless the money offer is too much to reject (and that's a long shot at best).

No one can predict the future.

Ainge traded a pick we got for Juri Welsch into Ray Allen which brought us Kevin Garnett.

We're talking two different things here. We're talking about a top tier FA signing with us. 

And since you opened it up, KG wasnt going to Boston until the Ray Allen trade. See the stars pull I'm talking about? Having Pierce and Judas, along with some convincing from McHale made the decision to leave Minny a little easier for KG. Do you honestly think that KG would waive his no trade clause if he knows he's going to a team with Kendrick Perkins, Leon Powe, Glen Davis and an unproven at the time Rajon Rondo?
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2014, 04:29:44 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Add Rondo to the list of free agent targets.   Cuz, why not?

If you guys thought we could re-sign Rondo this summer... there's no reason to believe we can't sign him as a free agent.  We did him a favor this season... sent him to Dallas for a half season while we acquired additional pieces to help the rebuild.

Again, I'm not really sure about this, but isn't there a rule that prevents this?
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2014, 04:35:01 PM »

Online Birdman

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I think you need to lower your expectations.

Celtics entering the long slow rebuild. No top level stars are coming here for awhile.
Sadly I agree
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2014, 04:40:24 PM »

Offline JBcat

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I think you need to lower your expectations.

Celtics entering the long slow rebuild. Not top level stars are coming here for awhile.

Guys go where the money is, especially when they haven't yet signed a big deal.  That's why tanking isn't the only option.  Greg Monroe is not going to sign with the Spurs for the minimum just because he wants to win.

Mike

Guys go where the money is when nobody else is offering comparable money.

When comparable money is offered, free agents go to best situation. That is not the Celtics.

But who says the C's aren't the best option for someone like Monroe? He'd be the primary offensive option here, and he'd have the chance to grow with several young prospects. And to be honest, if you want to win why would you leave the weak East to go the incredibly difficult West?

I generally agree with you on the top-level stars that they won't be signing here, but someone like Monroe is a different situation I think.

Just to piggyback on your thought I would say in the East you could make a case that only the Raptors, Wizards, Bulls, Cavs, and maybe Hawks and Bucks have a better near future than us.  Also most of the good teams in the East and West have their cap space tied up.  Someone like Monroe could be on the table for us as well as someone like Reggie Jackson/Goran Dragic, and possibly re-sign Green.  I think I would be happy with those moves.

Re: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2014, 04:41:16 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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I think you need to lower your expectations.

Celtics entering the long slow rebuild. No top level stars are coming here for awhile.
Sadly I agree

Well. We can start by adding a couple of complimentary pieces.

I mean, let's say we add Draymond Green and Robin Lopez with Sullinger and Smart. Those 4 will not going to bring you to the Eastern Conference Finals, but atleast that something that star players could look and go "that's a decent team, I think I can make a difference over there".
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2014, 04:51:53 PM »

Online Who

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I think you need to lower your expectations.

Celtics entering the long slow rebuild. No top level stars are coming here for awhile.
Sadly I agree

Well. We can start by adding a couple of complimentary pieces.

I mean, let's say we add Draymond Green and Robin Lopez with Sullinger and Smart. Those 4 will not going to bring you to the Eastern Conference Finals, but atleast that something that star players could look and go "that's a decent team, I think I can make a difference over there".

You don't really see stars going to teams because they have good role players and depth.

They go to teams because of the up-and-coming stars or established stars that are already on the team.

Re: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2014, 05:04:43 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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I think you need to lower your expectations.

Celtics entering the long slow rebuild. No top level stars are coming here for awhile.
Sadly I agree

Well. We can start by adding a couple of complimentary pieces.

I mean, let's say we add Draymond Green and Robin Lopez with Sullinger and Smart. Those 4 will not going to bring you to the Eastern Conference Finals, but atleast that something that star players could look and go "that's a decent team, I think I can make a difference over there".

You don't really see stars going to teams because they have good role players and depth.

They go to teams because of the up-and-coming stars or established stars that are already on the team.

Al Jefferson did and made that Charlotte squad into a Playoff team. They had Kemba and who else? I didn't see him get paid a ton either. He clearly saw something there.

If a unit of Draymond, Smart, Lopez and Sully reaches the Playoffs, it will gain some interest. And I do believe that those four can contend for a Playoff spot. That's one star player away from being very good. If we can just open up enough cap room for one max contract, that's going to be an enticing team to go to for FA.

But of course, it's based on results. That team needs to have even just a bit of success to be able to gain some pull.
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2014, 05:05:21 PM »

Online Who

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Do you think New York is more attractive a destination than Boston?
Yes. They have Carmelo Anthony. A true star.

Whichever star goes there knows he will have someone else to share the load with. A dynamic duo or even a Big Three if they can convince a 3rd guy to come in. That is huge. Having that 1st star is so important to convince the next guy to come in. No way Houston get Dwight Howard two summers ago without having James Harden there first. Carmelo + star FA = instant foundation to build a strong around.

Also, New York is one of the few cities in the league that can add real value to it's team as a free agent destination along with LA and Miami. Players want to live in those cities. It's not a be-all or end-all factor but they do attract FAs easier than other cities.

Boston is more of a middle of the pack destination. Doesn't have negative value. Doesn't have positive value. You could call it a 2nd tier destination or if you are being picky even a 3rd tier destination behind warm weather cities like Texas teams, Orlando, GSW, Phoenix ...
« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 05:14:11 PM by Who »

Re: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2014, 05:07:52 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Do you think New York is more attractive a destination than Boston?
Yes. They have Carmelo Anthony. A true star.

Whichever star goes there knows he will have someone else to share the load with. A dynamic duo or even a Big Three if they can convince a 3rd guy to come in. That is huge. Having that 1st star to convince the next guy to come in is so important. No way Houston get Dwight Howard two summers ago without having James Harden there first. Carmelo + star FA = instant foundation to build a strong around.

Also, New York is one of the few cities in the league that can add real value to it's team as a free agent destination along with LA and Miami. Players want to live in those cities. It's not a be-all or end-all factor but they do attract FAs easier than other cities.

Boston is more of a middle of the pack destination. Doesn't have negative value. Doesn't have positive value. You could call it a 2nd tier destination or if you are being picky even a 3rd tier destination behind warm weather cities like Texas teams, Orlando, GSW, Phoenix ...

Part of the reason that I wanted to keep Rondo.

Re: Possible 2015 Trade/ Free Agent Targets.
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2014, 05:11:29 PM »

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I think you need to lower your expectations.

Celtics entering the long slow rebuild. Not top level stars are coming here for awhile.

Guys go where the money is, especially when they haven't yet signed a big deal.  That's why tanking isn't the only option.  Greg Monroe is not going to sign with the Spurs for the minimum just because he wants to win.

Mike

Guys go where the money is when nobody else is offering comparable money.

When comparable money is offered, free agents go to best situation. That is not the Celtics.

But who says the C's aren't the best option for someone like Monroe? He'd be the primary offensive option here, and he'd have the chance to grow with several young prospects. And to be honest, if you want to win why would you leave the weak East to go the incredibly difficult West?

I generally agree with you on the top-level stars that they won't be signing here, but someone like Monroe is a different situation I think.

I agree. Monroe is the type of guy Boston can target.

Sorry, if I was unclear above. I was talking in general MBunge's guys go where the money comment rather than to the Monroe part. Sorry if that was unclear. I should have highlighted it in first response.

Monroe is the type of talent Boston can and should pursue. He is not an A-List talent and maybe not even a B list talent. Monroe is not an established All-Star in this league nor has he ever been close to being an All-Star. Monroe is an up and coming talent. He will not be a first or second choice of the top FA buyers on the market. Monroe will be a 2nd or 3rd tier FA and he is the type of young talent Boston should pursue.

And if Boston is willing to grossly overpay (over market value, well past level player is good value at) such a player, they have a great chance of nabbing a player like Monroe.

If a 2nd, or more, team(s) come in and offer comparable contract ... Boston's chances of getting a player like Monroe go way down. Celtics need that overpay to be confident of getting their man.

Good examples of rebuilding teams signing guys like Monroe to overpay contracts = Utah Jazz signing Carlos Boozer and Memo Okur. Washington Wizards signing Gilbert Arenas.

Sign up and coming talent to overpay contracts and bet on team to improve to be worth that big payday further down the line. That is Boston's best options in FA.