Author Topic: Celtics are 5-4 in December  (Read 2864 times)

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Celtics are 5-4 in December
« on: December 20, 2014, 05:43:13 PM »

Offline Chris22

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When we add the new guys, we should be even better.

Re: Celtics are 5-4 in December
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2014, 05:53:12 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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I largely shared your desire to ditch Rondo, but I don't understand how one could both want to deal Rondo and want the Celtics to win games with the squad they have post-Rondo. The whole point of dealing Rondo and his veteran buddies on this team is to accelerate our bottoming out and thus accumulate young talent ASAP.

Team basketball is very important, but the idea that a team of 15 guys, all anywhere within the gap between decent and good, can win a championship is fantasy. This is a league driven by stars. The 2004 Pistons had multiple stars, whether they were superstars or not. The 2010 Cs that fell one game short of a title had multiple stars, including Rajon Rondo at the time.

The 2011-12 Denver Nuggets had multiple good players and lost in the first rounder. The current Atlanta Hawks team has multiple good players and will not reach the ECFs. These are the teams you seem to aspire to be. Without stars, these are the teams truly mired in mediocrity.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

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Re: Celtics are 5-4 in December
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2014, 05:59:19 PM »

Offline Chris22

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I largely shared your desire to ditch Rondo, but I don't understand how one could both want to deal Rondo and want the Celtics to win games with the squad they have post-Rondo. The whole point of dealing Rondo and his veteran buddies on this team is to accelerate our bottoming out and thus accumulate young talent ASAP.

Team basketball is very important, but the idea that a team of 15 guys, all anywhere within the gap between decent and good, can win a championship is fantasy. This is a league driven by stars. The 2004 Pistons had multiple stars, whether they were superstars or not. The 2010 Cs that fell one game short of a title had multiple stars, including Rajon Rondo at the time.

The 2011-12 Denver Nuggets had multiple good players and lost in the first rounder. The current Atlanta Hawks team has multiple good players and will not reach the ECFs. These are the teams you seem to aspire to be. Without stars, these are the teams truly mired in mediocrity.

We have stars, and we have six first round draft choices in the next two years.

Let's start taking names and kicking a....

Re: Celtics are 5-4 in December
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2014, 06:01:44 PM »

Offline blink

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(grabs popcorn...)

Re: Celtics are 5-4 in December
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2014, 06:03:48 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Re: Celtics are 5-4 in December
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2014, 06:06:11 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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I largely shared your desire to ditch Rondo, but I don't understand how one could both want to deal Rondo and want the Celtics to win games with the squad they have post-Rondo. The whole point of dealing Rondo and his veteran buddies on this team is to accelerate our bottoming out and thus accumulate young talent ASAP.

Team basketball is very important, but the idea that a team of 15 guys, all anywhere within the gap between decent and good, can win a championship is fantasy. This is a league driven by stars. The 2004 Pistons had multiple stars, whether they were superstars or not. The 2010 Cs that fell one game short of a title had multiple stars, including Rajon Rondo at the time.

The 2011-12 Denver Nuggets had multiple good players and lost in the first rounder. The current Atlanta Hawks team has multiple good players and will not reach the ECFs. These are the teams you seem to aspire to be. Without stars, these are the teams truly mired in mediocrity.

We have stars, and we have six first round draft choices in the next two years.

Let's start taking names and kicking a....

We do not have stars. Smart could become a star. One of Sully, Olynyk, or Young could break out and become a star (though I doubt it; I think all three will become very good starters). However, none of them are right now and you don't shift gears thinking you have a star. You shift gears when one of them throws out a season like Jimmy Butler is having now or Kawhi Leonard had last year.

I agree with you re: draft pick stash. Hopefully we will only have to tank -- sorry, develop young talent -- for one more year thanks to the Brooklyn picks. However as promising as those picks appear to be, our best shot at snatching up a blue chipper in the draft is to bottom out this year and ensure that the lowest pick we can get is 6-8, much like we did last year.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague/

Re: Celtics are 5-4 in December
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2014, 06:09:58 PM »

Offline Chris22

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I largely shared your desire to ditch Rondo, but I don't understand how one could both want to deal Rondo and want the Celtics to win games with the squad they have post-Rondo. The whole point of dealing Rondo and his veteran buddies on this team is to accelerate our bottoming out and thus accumulate young talent ASAP.

Team basketball is very important, but the idea that a team of 15 guys, all anywhere within the gap between decent and good, can win a championship is fantasy. This is a league driven by stars. The 2004 Pistons had multiple stars, whether they were superstars or not. The 2010 Cs that fell one game short of a title had multiple stars, including Rajon Rondo at the time.

The 2011-12 Denver Nuggets had multiple good players and lost in the first rounder. The current Atlanta Hawks team has multiple good players and will not reach the ECFs. These are the teams you seem to aspire to be. Without stars, these are the teams truly mired in mediocrity.

We have stars, and we have six first round draft choices in the next two years.

Let's start taking names and kicking a....

We do not have stars. Smart could become a star. One of Sully, Olynyk, or Young could break out and become a star (though I doubt it; I think all three will become very good starters). However, none of them are right now and you don't shift gears thinking you have a star. You shift gears when one of them throws out a season like Jimmy Butler is having now or Kawhi Leonard had last year.

I agree with you re: draft pick stash. Hopefully we will only have to tank -- sorry, develop young talent -- for one more year thanks to the Brooklyn picks. However as promising as those picks appear to be, our best shot at snatching up a blue chipper in the draft is to bottom out this year and ensure that the lowest pick we can get is 6-8, much like we did last year.

We disagree. That's ok with me.
Barring injury or trade, we are going to start winning.
I would rather go with it and use the picks to add talent as we go along.

Re: Celtics are 5-4 in December
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2014, 06:12:40 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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I largely shared your desire to ditch Rondo, but I don't understand how one could both want to deal Rondo and want the Celtics to win games with the squad they have post-Rondo. The whole point of dealing Rondo and his veteran buddies on this team is to accelerate our bottoming out and thus accumulate young talent ASAP.

Team basketball is very important, but the idea that a team of 15 guys, all anywhere within the gap between decent and good, can win a championship is fantasy. This is a league driven by stars. The 2004 Pistons had multiple stars, whether they were superstars or not. The 2010 Cs that fell one game short of a title had multiple stars, including Rajon Rondo at the time.

The 2011-12 Denver Nuggets had multiple good players and lost in the first rounder. The current Atlanta Hawks team has multiple good players and will not reach the ECFs. These are the teams you seem to aspire to be. Without stars, these are the teams truly mired in mediocrity.

We have stars, and we have six first round draft choices in the next two years.

Let's start taking names and kicking a....

We do not have stars. Smart could become a star. One of Sully, Olynyk, or Young could break out and become a star (though I doubt it; I think all three will become very good starters). However, none of them are right now and you don't shift gears thinking you have a star. You shift gears when one of them throws out a season like Jimmy Butler is having now or Kawhi Leonard had last year.

I agree with you re: draft pick stash. Hopefully we will only have to tank -- sorry, develop young talent -- for one more year thanks to the Brooklyn picks. However as promising as those picks appear to be, our best shot at snatching up a blue chipper in the draft is to bottom out this year and ensure that the lowest pick we can get is 6-8, much like we did last year.

We disagree. That's ok with me.
Barring injury or trade, we are going to start winning.
I would rather go with it and use the picks to add talent as we go along.

Perhaps, though I think Ainge has other plans in mind. I don't expect to see Green and a few other vets on this team past February. The last couple months of this season will be horrific.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague/

Re: Celtics are 5-4 in December
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2014, 06:21:14 PM »

Offline footey

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there are a lot of bad teams in the NBA right now, which explains are recent 5-4 record.

Re: Celtics are 5-4 in December
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2014, 06:23:03 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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I think some of you guys need to calm down. Yes, the Celtics have won six games this month...against DET, LAL, WAS, PHI, ORL, and MIN. The WAS was really the only quality win. They've have a relative cupcake schedule this month. We were saying similar things last year this time and the team starting bottoming out come January and February. The win/loss column will tilt more towards losses once their schedule starts ramping up again in January (they've got around 11 games vs potential playoff team if I counted right). I think they'll end up being in the 6-8 lottery range when all is said and done. That's actually not a bad place to be based on recent lottery results.

Re: Celtics are 5-4 in December
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2014, 06:37:50 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I largely shared your desire to ditch Rondo, but I don't understand how one could both want to deal Rondo and want the Celtics to win games with the squad they have post-Rondo. The whole point of dealing Rondo and his veteran buddies on this team is to accelerate our bottoming out and thus accumulate young talent ASAP.



TheFlex,

That was my mentality last season when I desperately wanted Boston to trade Rondo.  I thought it would help us tank.  But that myth was put to bed last season.

For the season we were 25-57
Games with Rondo = 6-24 ... 16 win pace
Games without Rondo = 19-33 ... 30 win pace

How about 2012-13.  We were 20-23 when Rondo went down with an injury.  We lost the last 6 games he played.  The offense then transformed itself with him gone, went on a 6 game win streak... finished the season over .500 and made the playoffs. 

So far this season we are 2-0 without Rondo. 

We played without him on November 8th, shot 52%/37%/75%.  Seven players scored double digits.  We had 25 assists. 
Last night 6 players scored in double digits.  We shoot 57%/35%/72%.  Team gets 29 assists. 

Everything I see suggest we are a more efficient team without Rondo.  If Marcus Smart is what we expect, his increased minutes improves our defense.  There's a chance the Dallas vets (Wright in particular) will help us a bit as well. 

I don't think that trade was a tanking move at all.  We should be better after the deal.   Now... if we move Jeff Green, it could make an impact in our offense.  But we should keep cruising along on a 25-30 win pace regardless of that Rondo trade.

Re: Celtics are 5-4 in December
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2014, 07:19:26 PM »

Offline Chris22

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I largely shared your desire to ditch Rondo, but I don't understand how one could both want to deal Rondo and want the Celtics to win games with the squad they have post-Rondo. The whole point of dealing Rondo and his veteran buddies on this team is to accelerate our bottoming out and thus accumulate young talent ASAP.

Team basketball is very important, but the idea that a team of 15 guys, all anywhere within the gap between decent and good, can win a championship is fantasy. This is a league driven by stars. The 2004 Pistons had multiple stars, whether they were superstars or not. The 2010 Cs that fell one game short of a title had multiple stars, including Rajon Rondo at the time.

The 2011-12 Denver Nuggets had multiple good players and lost in the first rounder. The current Atlanta Hawks team has multiple good players and will not reach the ECFs. These are the teams you seem to aspire to be. Without stars, these are the teams truly mired in mediocrity.

We have stars, and we have six first round draft choices in the next two years.

Let's start taking names and kicking a....

We do not have stars. Smart could become a star. One of Sully, Olynyk, or Young could break out and become a star (though I doubt it; I think all three will become very good starters). However, none of them are right now and you don't shift gears thinking you have a star. You shift gears when one of them throws out a season like Jimmy Butler is having now or Kawhi Leonard had last year.

I agree with you re: draft pick stash. Hopefully we will only have to tank -- sorry, develop young talent -- for one more year thanks to the Brooklyn picks. However as promising as those picks appear to be, our best shot at snatching up a blue chipper in the draft is to bottom out this year and ensure that the lowest pick we can get is 6-8, much like we did last year.

We disagree. That's ok with me.
Barring injury or trade, we are going to start winning.
I would rather go with it and use the picks to add talent as we go along.

Perhaps, though I think Ainge has other plans in mind. I don't expect to see Green and a few other vets on this team past February. The last couple months of this season will be horrific.

No, they won't.

And Green is overrated. We are ten points better with Green off the court.

Re: Celtics are 5-4 in December
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2014, 07:39:06 PM »

Offline Rondohara

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We have stars

Yep, Jordan and Bird Level.
Jordan Crawford and Chris Birdman

That is so ridiculous that there isn't even what to comment. So how many in the MVP discussion at the moment? Or at least All-NBA? Nope, well then at least all-star level... there are at least 3-4 Celtics in that conversation. Maybe 10.



Goal for next season: Top 2 seed.
Say goodbye to: Turner, Zeller, Sully.

Re: Celtics are 5-4 in December
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2014, 07:40:28 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I largely shared your desire to ditch Rondo, but I don't understand how one could both want to deal Rondo and want the Celtics to win games with the squad they have post-Rondo. The whole point of dealing Rondo and his veteran buddies on this team is to accelerate our bottoming out and thus accumulate young talent ASAP.

Team basketball is very important, but the idea that a team of 15 guys, all anywhere within the gap between decent and good, can win a championship is fantasy. This is a league driven by stars. The 2004 Pistons had multiple stars, whether they were superstars or not. The 2010 Cs that fell one game short of a title had multiple stars, including Rajon Rondo at the time.

The 2011-12 Denver Nuggets had multiple good players and lost in the first rounder. The current Atlanta Hawks team has multiple good players and will not reach the ECFs. These are the teams you seem to aspire to be. Without stars, these are the teams truly mired in mediocrity.

We have stars, and we have six first round draft choices in the next two years.

Let's start taking names and kicking a....

We do not have stars. Smart could become a star. One of Sully, Olynyk, or Young could break out and become a star (though I doubt it; I think all three will become very good starters). However, none of them are right now and you don't shift gears thinking you have a star. You shift gears when one of them throws out a season like Jimmy Butler is having now or Kawhi Leonard had last year.

I agree with you re: draft pick stash. Hopefully we will only have to tank -- sorry, develop young talent -- for one more year thanks to the Brooklyn picks. However as promising as those picks appear to be, our best shot at snatching up a blue chipper in the draft is to bottom out this year and ensure that the lowest pick we can get is 6-8, much like we did last year.

We disagree. That's ok with me.
Barring injury or trade, we are going to start winning.
I would rather go with it and use the picks to add talent as we go along.

Perhaps, though I think Ainge has other plans in mind. I don't expect to see Green and a few other vets on this team past February. The last couple months of this season will be horrific.

No, they won't.

And Green is overrated. We are ten points better with Green off the court.
good to know

Re: Celtics are 5-4 in December
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2014, 08:00:46 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I largely shared your desire to ditch Rondo, but I don't understand how one could both want to deal Rondo and want the Celtics to win games with the squad they have post-Rondo. The whole point of dealing Rondo and his veteran buddies on this team is to accelerate our bottoming out and thus accumulate young talent ASAP.

Team basketball is very important, but the idea that a team of 15 guys, all anywhere within the gap between decent and good, can win a championship is fantasy. This is a league driven by stars. The 2004 Pistons had multiple stars, whether they were superstars or not. The 2010 Cs that fell one game short of a title had multiple stars, including Rajon Rondo at the time.

The 2011-12 Denver Nuggets had multiple good players and lost in the first rounder. The current Atlanta Hawks team has multiple good players and will not reach the ECFs. These are the teams you seem to aspire to be. Without stars, these are the teams truly mired in mediocrity.

We have stars, and we have six first round draft choices in the next two years.

Let's start taking names and kicking a....

We do not have stars. Smart could become a star. One of Sully, Olynyk, or Young could break out and become a star (though I doubt it; I think all three will become very good starters). However, none of them are right now and you don't shift gears thinking you have a star. You shift gears when one of them throws out a season like Jimmy Butler is having now or Kawhi Leonard had last year.

I agree with you re: draft pick stash. Hopefully we will only have to tank -- sorry, develop young talent -- for one more year thanks to the Brooklyn picks. However as promising as those picks appear to be, our best shot at snatching up a blue chipper in the draft is to bottom out this year and ensure that the lowest pick we can get is 6-8, much like we did last year.

We disagree. That's ok with me.
Barring injury or trade, we are going to start winning.
I would rather go with it and use the picks to add talent as we go along.

Perhaps, though I think Ainge has other plans in mind. I don't expect to see Green and a few other vets on this team past February. The last couple months of this season will be horrific.

No, they won't.

And Green is overrated. We are ten points better with Green off the court.


So let's trade Jeff Green for a bag of chips and we can get BOS to the NBA finals next year at the rate we're going, lol.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 08:06:11 PM by GreenFaith1819 »