Author Topic: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?  (Read 24942 times)

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Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #120 on: December 21, 2014, 06:23:31 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I'm curious to hear from someone who believed Ben mclemore or mkg+biyombo was "laughable return" for rondo.   How did you react when you learned we moved rondo for a late 1st and filler?

Has your perspective changed ?
No. Those were terrible ideas and this is just more terrible. Ben Mc and a one seems better, but that other stuff was and remains terrible.

If Tony Parker were wondering out loud about leaving the Spurs you'd never see the Spurs make a panic move and lose a game of chicken like this.
Unfortunately Tony Parker has more trade value than Rondo... even in a contract year.  There's a lot of red flags preventing most teams from going after Rondo.  The market was weak.
You trade T Parker straight up for Rondo and the Spurs probably get a teeny better or stay the same and we get worse.

Spurs get worse and we get a little better. It's pretty clear. Rondo cannot space the floor like Parker can and he hasn't been able to drive to the hoop as effectively as Parker has in a couple years now.

I don't really know why anyone is trying to engage you in a Rondo debate when you've repeatedly made statements about him that confuse me into believing this is 2011 again.

Spurs should be fine with Rondo at the helm Rondo today is still an effective player, I don't understand why people on this site is equating him to Reggie Evans (it's not to you it's other people.)

Rondo is an exceptional talent but you're holding on to an alternative truth if you think he's capable of what he was a couple years back. Not only that, even if he was the same player, he's someone whose playing style needs to be accommodated by a certain coach and certain players. The Spurs ideally like to have four guys on the floor at all times who can shoot at least 16 ft. out from the basket, preferably a three-pointer. Rondo may be fine on that team now, but when Splitter returns to the starting lineup, Rondo's inability to stretch the floor beyond the midrange area would either compromise their spacing or force them to remove Splitter from the starting unit. He's hardly a player that you can just plug on any team and expect the team to be better, again, even if he was the player of 2011 and '12.

A good coach doesn't just plug significant players into their system without making adjustments.  Look at Dallas.  Carlisle is already talking about playing more zone because of Rondo's abilities.  In last night's game, the Mavs were having great difficulty with the Spurs zone so Carlisle made an on-the-fly decision at halftime to put Rondo in the middle of Spur's zone and it worked quite well.

Sure, but sometimes those adjustments may hinder the abilities of a teammate Rondo is supposed to make better. We will see how the Mavericks fare in the face of those challenging adjustments. I think they'll be fine, they have too much talent. But it's not a guarantee.

Nothing is guaranteed but death and taxes.  I'm not sold on the Mavericks either.  Even with Rondo, I see them as no better than 5th best team in the west.  Their defense is poor and their vaunted offense has been very mediocre against the best teams.  Dirk is definitely showing his age. 

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #121 on: December 21, 2014, 08:28:53 PM »

Offline mgent

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I'm curious to hear from someone who believed Ben mclemore or mkg+biyombo was "laughable return" for rondo.   How did you react when you learned we moved rondo for a late 1st and filler?

Has your perspective changed ?
No. Those were terrible ideas and this is just more terrible. Ben Mc and a one seems better, but that other stuff was and remains terrible.

If Tony Parker were wondering out loud about leaving the Spurs you'd never see the Spurs make a panic move and lose a game of chicken like this.
Unfortunately Tony Parker has more trade value than Rondo... even in a contract year.  There's a lot of red flags preventing most teams from going after Rondo.  The market was weak.
You trade T Parker straight up for Rondo and the Spurs probably get a teeny better or stay the same and we get worse.

Spurs get worse and we get a little better. It's pretty clear. Rondo cannot space the floor like Parker can and he hasn't been able to drive to the hoop as effectively as Parker has in a couple years now.

I don't really know why anyone is trying to engage you in a Rondo debate when you've repeatedly made statements about him that confuse me into believing this is 2011 again.

Spurs should be fine with Rondo at the helm Rondo today is still an effective player, I don't understand why people on this site is equating him to Reggie Evans (it's not to you it's other people.)

Rondo is an exceptional talent but you're holding on to an alternative truth if you think he's capable of what he was a couple years back. Not only that, even if he was the same player, he's someone whose playing style needs to be accommodated by a certain coach and certain players. The Spurs ideally like to have four guys on the floor at all times who can shoot at least 16 ft. out from the basket, preferably a three-pointer. Rondo may be fine on that team now, but when Splitter returns to the starting lineup, Rondo's inability to stretch the floor beyond the midrange area would either compromise their spacing or force them to remove Splitter from the starting unit. He's hardly a player that you can just plug on any team and expect the team to be better, again, even if he was the player of 2011 and '12.

A good coach doesn't just plug significant players into their system without making adjustments.  Look at Dallas.  Carlisle is already talking about playing more zone because of Rondo's abilities.  In last night's game, the Mavs were having great difficulty with the Spurs zone so Carlisle made an on-the-fly decision at halftime to put Rondo in the middle of Spur's zone and it worked quite well.

Sure, but sometimes those adjustments may hinder the abilities of a teammate Rondo is supposed to make better. We will see how the Mavericks fare in the face of those challenging adjustments. I think they'll be fine, they have too much talent. But it's not a guarantee.

Nothing is guaranteed but death and taxes.  I'm not sold on the Mavericks either.  Even with Rondo, I see them as no better than 5th best team in the west.  Their defense is poor and their vaunted offense has been very mediocre against the best teams.  Dirk is definitely showing his age.

Dirk was 50-40-90 last year after starting similarly, don't count him out.  Mavs have one of the best defensive anchors in the league, they'll have no problem once the game slows does in the playoffs.
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Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #122 on: December 21, 2014, 08:37:04 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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It won't be easy for the Mavs to come out on top in the West

A lot of teams standing between therm and a title game.

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #123 on: December 21, 2014, 10:52:34 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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It won't be easy for the Mavs to come out on top in the West

A lot of teams standing between therm and a title game.

The playoff matchups are going to be extremely important.  There is a good chance the #1 or 2 seed ends up playing OKC in the first round. 

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #124 on: December 21, 2014, 11:28:51 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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The C's as a whole, came out with no sense of urgency--from the opening tip...Meanwhile, Miami played at a better pace-more energy, etc.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #125 on: December 22, 2014, 12:17:21 AM »

Offline hagar55voa

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Zeller will be the player who suffers the most from this trade...His minutes will go down, when they should go up...If they would just let him play about 30 minutes a game, he would be very productive...Also, it helps when the players actually throw him the ball on a consistent basis...

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #126 on: December 22, 2014, 12:29:53 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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The situation sucks, as a whole. We are in real bad shape... we're netting nothing as we shed our roster. Crummy, highly protected picks aren't getting us anywhere, nor are all the trade exceptions in the world if we can't lure a superstar here (and we can't).

And why was Jameer Nelson playing tonight? Can't think of a single reason.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 12:40:05 AM by tarheelsxxiii »
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Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #127 on: December 22, 2014, 12:47:54 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Zeller will be the player who suffers the most from this trade...His minutes will go down, when they should go up...If they would just let him play about 30 minutes a game, he would be very productive...Also, it helps when the players actually throw him the ball on a consistent basis...

I hope not.  Zeller has been a very pleasant surprise.  Love how he runs the floor hard all the time.  I'd hate to be an opposing center.  Scal was pointing out his excellent movement around the basket to get himself open.  He's definitely earning his minutes. 

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #128 on: December 22, 2014, 12:56:26 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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The situation sucks, as a whole. We are in real bad shape... we're netting nothing as we shed our roster. Crummy, highly protected picks aren't getting us anywhere, nor are all the trade exceptions in the world if we can't lure a superstar here (and we can't).

And why was Jameer Nelson playing tonight? Can't think of a single reason.

With the Rondo trade, I'm back in tank mode and I'm praying that Brooklyn implodes. 

Nelson should be packaged in a trade or bought out soon.  He shouldn't be taking any minutes or even a roster spot. 

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #129 on: December 22, 2014, 01:04:28 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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And why was Jameer Nelson playing tonight? Can't think of a single reason.

Nelson, Wright, and Crowder can't be dealt for 2 months.  As the oldest guy and the only one who isn't a free agent (player option) this offseason, we are most motivated to move him.  So we're going to showcase him for those 2 months and see what we can get in February. 

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #130 on: December 22, 2014, 01:34:49 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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And why was Jameer Nelson playing tonight? Can't think of a single reason.

Nelson, Wright, and Crowder can't be dealt for 2 months.  As the oldest guy and the only one who isn't a free agent (player option) this offseason, we are most motivated to move him.  So we're going to showcase him for those 2 months and see what we can get in February.

If Nelson plays like he did tonight for the next 5 games, he should be bought out instead of Danny waiting for 2 months before trading him.   We should of just got Felton who would of not bothered the pg rotation.  Pressey should be playing

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #131 on: December 22, 2014, 03:20:32 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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It won't be easy for the Mavs to come out on top in the West

A lot of teams standing between therm and a title game.

The playoff matchups are going to be extremely important.  There is a good chance the #1 or 2 seed ends up playing OKC in the first round.

They probably hope so.

If there is one thing that the Thunder crew have shown us over the years it's that they are utterly incapable of making the most of the talent they have come playoff time.

Every single season in the league they have had among the greatest pure talent in the NBA, and yet constantly they come up short. 

KD's purpose in life is to stuff box scored and win individual awards.  Doesn't seem to care too much bout winning.  At least if h does, I haven't seen it yet...

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #132 on: December 22, 2014, 08:40:12 AM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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