Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?

[TheFlex]

I'm curious to hear from someone who believed Ben mclemore or mkg+biyombo was "laughable return" for rondo.   How did you react when you learned we moved rondo for a late 1st and filler?

Has your perspective changed ?

No. Those were terrible ideas and this is just more terrible. Ben Mc and a one seems better, but that other stuff was and remains terrible.

If Tony Parker were wondering out loud about leaving the Spurs you'd never see the Spurs make a panic move and lose a game of chicken like this.

Unfortunately Tony Parker has more trade value than Rondo... even in a contract year.  There's a lot of red flags preventing most teams from going after Rondo.  The market was weak.

You trade T Parker straight up for Rondo and the Spurs probably get a teeny better or stay the same and we get worse.

Spurs get worse and we get a little better. It's pretty clear. Rondo cannot space the floor like Parker can and he hasn't been able to drive to the hoop as effectively as Parker has in a couple years now.

I don't really know why anyone is trying to engage you in a Rondo debate when you've repeatedly made statements about him that confuse me into believing this is 2011 again.

Spurs should be fine with Rondo at the helm Rondo today is still an effective player, I don't understand why people on this site is equating him to Reggie Evans (it's not to you it's other people.)

Rondo is an exceptional talent but you're holding on to an alternative truth if you think he's capable of what he was a couple years back. Not only that, even if he was the same player, he's someone whose playing style needs to be accommodated by a certain coach and certain players. The Spurs ideally like to have four guys on the floor at all times who can shoot at least 16 ft. out from the basket, preferably a three-pointer. Rondo may be fine on that team now, but when Splitter returns to the starting lineup, Rondo's inability to stretch the floor beyond the midrange area would either compromise their spacing or force them to remove Splitter from the starting unit. He's hardly a player that you can just plug on any team and expect the team to be better, again, even if he was the player of 2011 and '12.

This argument is getting really old. There's nothing to suggest that post-2012 Rondo is enough of an offensive threat to be compared to any of the PGs he's miraculously still being compared to. Somehow people still get aroused enough to viciously defend one side or the other, as evidenced by this probably being the longest thread I've ever been responsible for starting. God love Rondo and his polarizing effect.

[tazzmaniac]

This post rondo team  plus wright is going to be a headache of a team to play against.  Pressure backcourt defense, pfs and centers that can pass better than some guards in the nba,  Jeff Green's coming out party this season. Love the wright addition, bc have added a big thing we been missing in the lineup.   CBS also has so many options and will just have to do his best juggling act.

How much are you willing to pay to keep Green and Wright?  Green will probably get 4 years/50m+.  Dallas really liked Wright so there's a good chance they'll offer him their full MLE depending on who else is available.   

Green can get 15 million a year in the open market.  But imo should give the Celts a small discount (12-13 million per year).  Overall with what AB has provided in the last 3 seasons vs Green, Green should not be paid almost twice as much 

Wright is in line for 6-8 million a season deal.  If everything works out, Danny is going to try to lock him up to a 3-4 year deal before the trade deadline.  If nothing can be worked out, Danny is definitely going to trade him.   Nelson , Wright and a 2nd or two could get us back another 1st

Crowder is likely going to stick around for the long run. Cheap contract , 24 years old, energy guy that can guard multiple positions and make open threes

2-3 million per year is definitely not what I would consider a small discount.  Why in the world would Green give up that much money to play on a team that is looking at a long rebuild?  Dallas got Rondo for a late round first and a couple of role players and you think someone will give up a first for Nelson and Wright.  I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. 

[vjcsmoke]

I don't like the pieces we got for Rondo.  But I accept that he had to go.  He wanted a max deal or he was walking.  Our GM doesn't believe that Rondo deserves a max deal.  It's that simple.  I'm not going to try to pretend that Brandan Wright is some kind of impact player, but he's probably going to be better than Zeller at the 5 spot. 

So its a minor improvement at the 5.  We gain another couple of late round draft picks - 1st and 2nd.  And we don't have to pay Rondo a max contract in the offseason.   Oh and we have a 13m dollar trade exception that may or may not turn out useful.

[Eja117]

I'm curious to hear from someone who believed Ben mclemore or mkg+biyombo was "laughable return" for rondo.   How did you react when you learned we moved rondo for a late 1st and filler?

Has your perspective changed ?

No. Those were terrible ideas and this is just more terrible. Ben Mc and a one seems better, but that other stuff was and remains terrible.

If Tony Parker were wondering out loud about leaving the Spurs you'd never see the Spurs make a panic move and lose a game of chicken like this.

Unfortunately Tony Parker has more trade value than Rondo... even in a contract year.  There's a lot of red flags preventing most teams from going after Rondo.  The market was weak.

You trade T Parker straight up for Rondo and the Spurs probably get a teeny better or stay the same and we get worse.

if this topic has turned into Parker vs Rondo, anyone who thinks that Rondo is better in any aspect of the game should go and watch any SAS finals series

He's better at defense, rebounding, and passing. Parker can have shooting. Rondo would get around that by passing. Most pgs in the league could learn a thing or two about that. And if Rondo misses a shot he just gets his own rebound. All pgs in the league could learn about that from him too

[Rondo9]

I'm curious to hear from someone who believed Ben mclemore or mkg+biyombo was "laughable return" for rondo.   How did you react when you learned we moved rondo for a late 1st and filler?

Has your perspective changed ?

No. Those were terrible ideas and this is just more terrible. Ben Mc and a one seems better, but that other stuff was and remains terrible.

If Tony Parker were wondering out loud about leaving the Spurs you'd never see the Spurs make a panic move and lose a game of chicken like this.

Unfortunately Tony Parker has more trade value than Rondo... even in a contract year.  There's a lot of red flags preventing most teams from going after Rondo.  The market was weak.

You trade T Parker straight up for Rondo and the Spurs probably get a teeny better or stay the same and we get worse.

Spurs get worse and we get a little better. It's pretty clear. Rondo cannot space the floor like Parker can and he hasn't been able to drive to the hoop as effectively as Parker has in a couple years now.

I don't really know why anyone is trying to engage you in a Rondo debate when you've repeatedly made statements about him that confuse me into believing this is 2011 again.

Spurs should be fine with Rondo at the helm Rondo today is still an effective player, I don't understand why people on this site is equating him to Reggie Evans (it's not to you it's other people.)

Rondo is an exceptional talent but you're holding on to an alternative truth if you think he's capable of what he was a couple years back. Not only that, even if he was the same player, he's someone whose playing style needs to be accommodated by a certain coach and certain players. The Spurs ideally like to have four guys on the floor at all times who can shoot at least 16 ft. out from the basket, preferably a three-pointer. Rondo may be fine on that team now, but when Splitter returns to the starting lineup, Rondo's inability to stretch the floor beyond the midrange area would either compromise their spacing or force them to remove Splitter from the starting unit. He's hardly a player that you can just plug on any team and expect the team to be better, again, even if he was the player of 2011 and '12.

This argument is getting really old. There's nothing to suggest that post-2012 Rondo is enough of an offensive threat to be compared to any of the PGs he's miraculously still being compared to. Somehow people still get aroused enough to viciously defend one side or the other, as evidenced by this probably being the longest thread I've ever been responsible for starting. God love Rondo and his polarizing effect.

I think people know that Rondo is not offensively skilled like the other point guards, what makes him unique is that he finds ways to affect the game regardless of his weakness.

[TheFlex]

Flex watch the game tonight. Like with KO, you can't measure Wrights impact mainly by stats.

There are no stats for "i'm hesitant to drive in with that above the rim hawk waiting around"  or  "tipping balls on the offensive end to keep the play alive".

Yes there are, it's called, "does the opposing team repeatedly score less when [blank] is on the floor?" Teammates are certainly a variable one has to watch for, but over the course of Wright's remaining games with the Cs that should even out. I don't expect him to be a game-changer around the rim other than to make a few highlight-worth blocks, much like some don't expect Rondo to be a game-changer on the perimeter for Dallas other than to make a few highlight-worthy passes. I know you understand the logic behind the latter assertion.

Olynyk has been playing fantastic lately, btw. Let's hope he can keep it up. I made a fantasy lineup on Draft Kings for a friend last night and took him as my center.

[TheFlex]

Our GM doesn't believe that Rondo deserves a max deal.  It's that simple.

Yep. TP. Bizarre that some of Rondo's biggest fans would suggest that Ainge should then have just waited to let the market tell Rondo he wasn't worth a max. The Knicks, Lakers and others are/were clearly going to offer more money per year than Ainge was willing to.

[AngryAndIrritable]

I didn't know what to make of the trade. I still don't. On paper it looks awful, but similar to the Brooklyn trade for Garnett and Pierce the positive effects may take a while to manifest themselves in future decisions.

[tazzmaniac]

I'm curious to hear from someone who believed Ben mclemore or mkg+biyombo was "laughable return" for rondo.   How did you react when you learned we moved rondo for a late 1st and filler?

Has your perspective changed ?

No. Those were terrible ideas and this is just more terrible. Ben Mc and a one seems better, but that other stuff was and remains terrible.

If Tony Parker were wondering out loud about leaving the Spurs you'd never see the Spurs make a panic move and lose a game of chicken like this.

Unfortunately Tony Parker has more trade value than Rondo... even in a contract year.  There's a lot of red flags preventing most teams from going after Rondo.  The market was weak.

You trade T Parker straight up for Rondo and the Spurs probably get a teeny better or stay the same and we get worse.

Spurs get worse and we get a little better. It's pretty clear. Rondo cannot space the floor like Parker can and he hasn't been able to drive to the hoop as effectively as Parker has in a couple years now.

I don't really know why anyone is trying to engage you in a Rondo debate when you've repeatedly made statements about him that confuse me into believing this is 2011 again.

Spurs should be fine with Rondo at the helm Rondo today is still an effective player, I don't understand why people on this site is equating him to Reggie Evans (it's not to you it's other people.)

Rondo is an exceptional talent but you're holding on to an alternative truth if you think he's capable of what he was a couple years back. Not only that, even if he was the same player, he's someone whose playing style needs to be accommodated by a certain coach and certain players. The Spurs ideally like to have four guys on the floor at all times who can shoot at least 16 ft. out from the basket, preferably a three-pointer. Rondo may be fine on that team now, but when Splitter returns to the starting lineup, Rondo's inability to stretch the floor beyond the midrange area would either compromise their spacing or force them to remove Splitter from the starting unit. He's hardly a player that you can just plug on any team and expect the team to be better, again, even if he was the player of 2011 and '12.

A good coach doesn't just plug significant players into their system without making adjustments.  Look at Dallas.  Carlisle is already talking about playing more zone because of Rondo's abilities.  In last night's game, the Mavs were having great difficulty with the Spurs zone so Carlisle made an on-the-fly decision at halftime to put Rondo in the middle of Spur's zone and it worked quite well. 

[hwangjini_1]

This post rondo team  plus wright is going to be a headache of a team to play against.  Pressure backcourt defense, pfs and centers that can pass better than some guards in the nab,  Jeff Green's coming out party this season. Love the wright addition, bc have added a big thing we been missing in the lineup.   CBS also has so many options and will just have to do his best juggling act.

Wright is an undersized center.  I seem to recall you railing against having undersized centers (which we already have) in your ongoing push to have the C's tank for a higher pick last year and this year.

why the love for an undersized center now, particularly a journeyman?  is it just because he was obtained for your favorite whipping boy?  Wright, Crowder and Nelson are nothing to get excited about and I don't see any of them moving the needle towards making this team any better.  I expect them all to be gone when their contracts expire if not sooner

The pt is we havent had above the rim play/protection since KG. We will get 2, 3 tip ins/dunks we normally would not be able to score, prevent/alter several shots. These things will make a diff in the W,L

I think Zeller is a better defender overall. At the very least they're equal. Wright can block shots but he can't do much else on the defensive end. And I don't see why he's anything different from Zeller offensively.

Wright might be a slight upgrade but he's hardly a foreign player type for this team. Hopefully he can replicate Zeller's terrific play in expanded minutes and Danny can find a new home for him mid-February.

Zeller has been good but he does not have elite length. Ibaka for example could just do turnaround hook shots after turnaround hook shots over zeller and the only way zeller could stop him is foul him,  play over the top D or Ibaka misses.

James harden ability to penetrate at will is another example. Zeller could not slow him down.   Harden has the capability to twist his body in ways to avoid getting his shot blocked. Eventually he just bowls into zeller and gets foul calls after foul falls.

With wright, he has the lenth and above the rim capability to "cheat" and make ibaka have to alter his shot.    Wright is also very good at blocking or altering jump shots. Ibaka now is not automatic to score 20 plus on us. He has been killing us

Harden could drive and try his acrobatic ways to score but he cant shoot around wrights length anymore. Harden starts missing a couple or wright blocks a shot, the refs are less likely to give harden the calls.

A guy like wright can make a difference against matchup like these

we dont know how wright will do on the celtics, nor how stevens will use him. but while in dallas wright was an impressive defender near the basket. he is currently tied for 6th in the NBA in blocks per 100 possessions.

also, it appears that he is genuinely a positive defensive influence around the rim. Opponents are shooting 53.7% on shots within 5 feet of the hoop on wright this season. no one else currently on the celtics does this.

so, lets wait and see. thus far wrights has proven that he can defend. now he has to prove it on the celtics as well.

[BballTim]

I'm curious to hear from someone who believed Ben mclemore or mkg+biyombo was "laughable return" for rondo.   How did you react when you learned we moved rondo for a late 1st and filler?

Has your perspective changed ?

No. Those were terrible ideas and this is just more terrible. Ben Mc and a one seems better, but that other stuff was and remains terrible.

If Tony Parker were wondering out loud about leaving the Spurs you'd never see the Spurs make a panic move and lose a game of chicken like this.

Unfortunately Tony Parker has more trade value than Rondo... even in a contract year.  There's a lot of red flags preventing most teams from going after Rondo.  The market was weak.

You trade T Parker straight up for Rondo and the Spurs probably get a teeny better or stay the same and we get worse.

Spurs get worse and we get a little better. It's pretty clear. Rondo cannot space the floor like Parker can and he hasn't been able to drive to the hoop as effectively as Parker has in a couple years now.

I don't really know why anyone is trying to engage you in a Rondo debate when you've repeatedly made statements about him that confuse me into believing this is 2011 again.

Spurs should be fine with Rondo at the helm Rondo today is still an effective player, I don't understand why people on this site is equating him to Reggie Evans (it's not to you it's other people.)

Rondo is an exceptional talent but you're holding on to an alternative truth if you think he's capable of what he was a couple years back. Not only that, even if he was the same player, he's someone whose playing style needs to be accommodated by a certain coach and certain players. The Spurs ideally like to have four guys on the floor at all times who can shoot at least 16 ft. out from the basket, preferably a three-pointer. Rondo may be fine on that team now, but when Splitter returns to the starting lineup, Rondo's inability to stretch the floor beyond the midrange area would either compromise their spacing or force them to remove Splitter from the starting unit. He's hardly a player that you can just plug on any team and expect the team to be better, again, even if he was the player of 2011 and '12.

  Give Rondo a team with 3 good distance shooters on the floor at all times and someone who's at all capable of finishing around the rim and he'll carve up opposing defenses. That wouldn't be dependent on his getting to the rim on a regular basis or taking more than a few shots a game.

[tazzmaniac]

Our GM doesn't believe that Rondo deserves a max deal.  It's that simple.

Yep. TP. Bizarre that some of Rondo's biggest fans would suggest that Ainge should then have just waited to let the market tell Rondo he wasn't worth a max. The Knicks, Lakers and others are/were clearly going to offer more money per year than Ainge was willing to.

I don't think it would have taken Max money to resign Rondo.  Ainge needed to show a long-term commitment to Rondo.  He also needed to convince Rondo that Celtics could be championship contenders sooner rather than later.  I would have offered Rondo 5 years/$90m with a no trade clause.  Then I would have made a strong play for a good big (e.g. Monroe). 

[TheFlex]

I'm curious to hear from someone who believed Ben mclemore or mkg+biyombo was "laughable return" for rondo.   How did you react when you learned we moved rondo for a late 1st and filler?

Has your perspective changed ?

No. Those were terrible ideas and this is just more terrible. Ben Mc and a one seems better, but that other stuff was and remains terrible.

If Tony Parker were wondering out loud about leaving the Spurs you'd never see the Spurs make a panic move and lose a game of chicken like this.

Unfortunately Tony Parker has more trade value than Rondo... even in a contract year.  There's a lot of red flags preventing most teams from going after Rondo.  The market was weak.

You trade T Parker straight up for Rondo and the Spurs probably get a teeny better or stay the same and we get worse.

Spurs get worse and we get a little better. It's pretty clear. Rondo cannot space the floor like Parker can and he hasn't been able to drive to the hoop as effectively as Parker has in a couple years now.

I don't really know why anyone is trying to engage you in a Rondo debate when you've repeatedly made statements about him that confuse me into believing this is 2011 again.

Spurs should be fine with Rondo at the helm Rondo today is still an effective player, I don't understand why people on this site is equating him to Reggie Evans (it's not to you it's other people.)

Rondo is an exceptional talent but you're holding on to an alternative truth if you think he's capable of what he was a couple years back. Not only that, even if he was the same player, he's someone whose playing style needs to be accommodated by a certain coach and certain players. The Spurs ideally like to have four guys on the floor at all times who can shoot at least 16 ft. out from the basket, preferably a three-pointer. Rondo may be fine on that team now, but when Splitter returns to the starting lineup, Rondo's inability to stretch the floor beyond the midrange area would either compromise their spacing or force them to remove Splitter from the starting unit. He's hardly a player that you can just plug on any team and expect the team to be better, again, even if he was the player of 2011 and '12.

  Give Rondo a team with 3 good distance shooters on the floor at all times and someone who's at all capable of finishing around the rim and he'll carve up opposing defenses. That wouldn't be dependent on his getting to the rim on a regular basis or taking more than a few shots a game.

Agreed, just referring to a Spurs lineup with Rondo/Duncan/Splitter on the floor.

[TheFlex]

I'm curious to hear from someone who believed Ben mclemore or mkg+biyombo was "laughable return" for rondo.   How did you react when you learned we moved rondo for a late 1st and filler?

Has your perspective changed ?

No. Those were terrible ideas and this is just more terrible. Ben Mc and a one seems better, but that other stuff was and remains terrible.

If Tony Parker were wondering out loud about leaving the Spurs you'd never see the Spurs make a panic move and lose a game of chicken like this.

Unfortunately Tony Parker has more trade value than Rondo... even in a contract year.  There's a lot of red flags preventing most teams from going after Rondo.  The market was weak.

You trade T Parker straight up for Rondo and the Spurs probably get a teeny better or stay the same and we get worse.

Spurs get worse and we get a little better. It's pretty clear. Rondo cannot space the floor like Parker can and he hasn't been able to drive to the hoop as effectively as Parker has in a couple years now.

I don't really know why anyone is trying to engage you in a Rondo debate when you've repeatedly made statements about him that confuse me into believing this is 2011 again.

Spurs should be fine with Rondo at the helm Rondo today is still an effective player, I don't understand why people on this site is equating him to Reggie Evans (it's not to you it's other people.)

Rondo is an exceptional talent but you're holding on to an alternative truth if you think he's capable of what he was a couple years back. Not only that, even if he was the same player, he's someone whose playing style needs to be accommodated by a certain coach and certain players. The Spurs ideally like to have four guys on the floor at all times who can shoot at least 16 ft. out from the basket, preferably a three-pointer. Rondo may be fine on that team now, but when Splitter returns to the starting lineup, Rondo's inability to stretch the floor beyond the midrange area would either compromise their spacing or force them to remove Splitter from the starting unit. He's hardly a player that you can just plug on any team and expect the team to be better, again, even if he was the player of 2011 and '12.

A good coach doesn't just plug significant players into their system without making adjustments.  Look at Dallas.  Carlisle is already talking about playing more zone because of Rondo's abilities.  In last night's game, the Mavs were having great difficulty with the Spurs zone so Carlisle made an on-the-fly decision at halftime to put Rondo in the middle of Spur's zone and it worked quite well.

Sure, but sometimes those adjustments may hinder the abilities of a teammate Rondo is supposed to make better. We will see how the Mavericks fare in the face of those challenging adjustments. I think they'll be fine, they have too much talent. But it's not a guarantee.

[tazzmaniac]

I'm curious to hear from someone who believed Ben mclemore or mkg+biyombo was "laughable return" for rondo.   How did you react when you learned we moved rondo for a late 1st and filler?

Has your perspective changed ?

No. Those were terrible ideas and this is just more terrible. Ben Mc and a one seems better, but that other stuff was and remains terrible.

If Tony Parker were wondering out loud about leaving the Spurs you'd never see the Spurs make a panic move and lose a game of chicken like this.

Unfortunately Tony Parker has more trade value than Rondo... even in a contract year.  There's a lot of red flags preventing most teams from going after Rondo.  The market was weak.

You trade T Parker straight up for Rondo and the Spurs probably get a teeny better or stay the same and we get worse.

Spurs get worse and we get a little better. It's pretty clear. Rondo cannot space the floor like Parker can and he hasn't been able to drive to the hoop as effectively as Parker has in a couple years now.

I don't really know why anyone is trying to engage you in a Rondo debate when you've repeatedly made statements about him that confuse me into believing this is 2011 again.

Spurs should be fine with Rondo at the helm Rondo today is still an effective player, I don't understand why people on this site is equating him to Reggie Evans (it's not to you it's other people.)

Rondo is an exceptional talent but you're holding on to an alternative truth if you think he's capable of what he was a couple years back. Not only that, even if he was the same player, he's someone whose playing style needs to be accommodated by a certain coach and certain players. The Spurs ideally like to have four guys on the floor at all times who can shoot at least 16 ft. out from the basket, preferably a three-pointer. Rondo may be fine on that team now, but when Splitter returns to the starting lineup, Rondo's inability to stretch the floor beyond the midrange area would either compromise their spacing or force them to remove Splitter from the starting unit. He's hardly a player that you can just plug on any team and expect the team to be better, again, even if he was the player of 2011 and '12.

  Give Rondo a team with 3 good distance shooters on the floor at all times and someone who's at all capable of finishing around the rim and he'll carve up opposing defenses. That wouldn't be dependent on his getting to the rim on a regular basis or taking more than a few shots a game.

Agreed, just referring to a Spurs lineup with Rondo/Duncan/Splitter on the floor.

If the other two players were good 3pt shooters, I think it would work out fine.